45 - 40 10k Runs

niamh.foley

Currently for 10k runs i am coming in a 52-56 per 10k my fastest 10k was around 51 min.

i would like to get down to 45 - 40 per 10 k run,

so i am now starting Speed Training twice a week, long run from 10k - 15k once to twice a week.

what else do you need to do in order to hit your goal.

some people have told me Run for 1 min as fast as you can jog for 2 min etc.

i have seen on sites, 6 * 1 Mile @ race pace, but could only end up doing 3 * 1 Mile

and 10 * 400m at high speed with 200m recovery jog between each set.

louthandproud

I don't believe you should ever run as fast as you can in a training session. Your quality/interval sessions should be done at the right pace for your current level of fitness. See https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ for guidance on the pace for these sessions. Other than that, 2 of these sessions per week combined with longer runs (also done at the right pace ) should see some improvement.

ecoli

What does your normal week look like now? What sort of weekly mileage are your running?

First thoughts would be slow down your runs big time. Your body can't handle race efforts every run you will end up stagnating due to underrecovery

krafty

What's your PB for 5K Niamh? I focussed on getting faster over 5K first, then built up to 10K. That worked* for me, but everybody is different.

*50-60min 10Ks down to comfortably sub 45 and pushing for the as-of-yet elusive sub 40.

Cona

i have seen on sites, 6 * 1 Mile @ race pace, but could only end up doing 3 * 1 Mile

and 10 * 400m at high speed with 200m recovery jog between each set.

Are you doing these at your current race pace or desired race pace?

You are probably not fit enough to be running them at sub 45 pace right now, so you will need to slow these right down. It advised to run them at current race pace i.e 52 mins. This allows for adaptations to that pace which will allow you to progress. It all takes time and patience.

ecoli

Cona wrote: »

Are you doing these at your current race pace or desired race pace?

You are probably not fit enough to be running them at sub 45 pace right now, so you will need to slow these right down. It advised to run them at current race pace i.e 52 mins. This allows for adaptations to that pace which will allow you to progress. It all takes time and patience.

I would imagine this session is too hard for someone of that level

While it is based on effort relative to ability you also have to look at time on feet

Take two examples

Runner A is a 34 min runner - so 6x1ml @ 5.30ish pace - 33 min work @ 10k RP
Runner B is a 52 min runner - so 6x1ml @ 8.20ish pace - 48-49 min work @ 10k RP

Here you have the slower runner actually working at the same effort level fo nearly 33% longer.

My advice would be to use timed intervals at that level (i.e 6 x 6-7 min @ 10k pace) This provides the same stimulus as provided for the initially design session

Cona

Agreed, 6x1m is a hard session for most runners and for slower runners would probably be counter productive to recover from.

OP - There is loads of excellent advice on these forums if you just peruse through them at will. The reality is, if you run more easy miles, with patience and consistency then your times will improve. Try to build up to 4 or 5 days of running including one long run per week. After that once you have built a good base you can include some speedier type work so your week would then look like one fast day, one long run day, two - three easy days.

The easy days are there to improve endurance and to promote recovery from the fast and long days. I know the feeling of wanting to get to a certain speed as soon as possible, and thinking that just throwing in a load of fast and long runs will get you there in the shortest time possible but in reality running takes patience, consistencey and hard work. Sometime going slow is actually the fastest way to improving...Weird

PVincent

Two speed sessions a week will lead to injuries. Keep the sessions very basic initially. As stated above a set number of comfortably hard runs for 5/6 mins is plenty tough ( and if 5mins is too hard do 3 or 4 mins) . There is no rush to improve quickly as the more you rush these attempts to improve the quicker you get turned off, injured or demoralised. You could do worse than look at your local running club as these sessions are so much better ( if not easier) when you are in a group scenario. In our club we use 400s quite a bit for our newer runners/ less experienced. It's a great way for them to experience running a little faster than their normal run pace , as anything more than that they just get too tired. The big positive I see from your post is that you have made the decision that YOU ARE GOING to improve .. So your mindset is right, but just remain patient and disciplined and it will happen .

ger664

To build a house you need a good foundation. I suspect your aerobic base is not good enough to get the full benefit of speed sessions

Are you running 6/7 days a week ? I would suggest you slowly build up to running 1 * 90+ min, 2 * 70-80 Mins and 3/4 * 40 min runs in the week. The pace of these runs should be very comfortable 6 min/Km or slower.
Once you get that under your belt start substituting the 70-80 min easy sessions with more race specific type sessions.

royster999

Would leg weight exercises help running performance?

ecoli

royster999 wrote: »

Would leg weight exercises help running performance?

Certain ones can help but to be honest unless you are running 40-50 mpw I would say that the biggest gains to be had from running performance are to be got from the non supplementary training.

Nothing substitutes time on your feet so even when you get to this sort of aerobic base the running training should still be the primary focus and all other aspects are to be added to your overall training rather than substituted

Think of weights, intervals, plyometrics etc as icing on the cake once the foundation has been laid down

niamh.foley

I'm Running

3 to 4 times a week my long runs can be from 10 - 16km mostly i would run 12km

that being said my Runs would be Speed Training twice a week, and two easy long runs,

last night i did 4 x 400m @ 4.20 per km, 3 x 800m @ 4.45 per km and finished off with 1 200m @ 3:28 per km.

ecoli

niamh.foley wrote: »

I'm Running

3 to 4 times a week my long runs can be from 10 - 16km mostly i would run 12km

that being said my Runs would be Speed Training twice a week, and two easy long runs,

last night i did 4 x 400m @ 4.20 per km, 3 x 800m @ 4.45 per km and finished off with 1 200m @ 3:28 per km.

Honest opinion

- Slow down your easy runs
- build up slowly to running more often each week
- build up slowly the duration of your runs
- Forget the speed sessions - if you wish to add quality add a tempo/steady state run (in your case the kinda paces you have been doing previously

Its not about how hard you train but about how smart. Common pitfall of people in their early running careers is running every run too hard. General rule of thumb would be about 90 sec - 2 min per mile slower than your 10k pace for your easy runs

niamh.foley

ecoli wrote: »

Honest opinion

- Slow down your easy runs
- build up slowly to running more often each week
- build up slowly the duration of your runs
- Forget the speed sessions - if you wish to add quality add a tempo/steady state run (in your case the kinda paces you have been doing previously

Its not about how hard you train but about how smart. Common pitfall of people in their early running careers is running every run too hard. General rule of thumb would be about 90 sec - 2 min per mile slower than your 10k pace for your easy runs

What I should have said at the start is that I'm running for a couple of years, I swim and cycle a lot put I have a love hate relationship with running,

I class myself a slow runner that didn't matter as I just want to finish 10k races and half marathons

But with me doing tri in the last 3 years it really got me working on my running.

macinalli

I don't want to belittle the tri's that you've been doing over the years, but I think ecoli's point still stands. If you want to run faster times, then ultimately you'll want to do speed sessions. However if you don't have a good base, then you'll just pick up niggles and injuries from these speed sessions. Build up slowly as he described, and when you do start the speed sessions you'll get an awful lot more out of them. It shouldn't take that long to build up that base, it's all about slow improvements!

niamh.foley

That's great thanks for all the advice. i will now work on upping my Number of runs and building on Base Training.