England WC Squad

GavRedKing · 12-05-2014 2:27pm

Terry was never going to go, even had Hodgson pushed for his inclusion I'd say the Fa would have vetoed it.

Shame really, well for England, hes their best CB and the Cahill - Terry partnership is tried and trusted this year.

Cahill has improved his game since making the step up and Jagielka is another good CB but either of them get injured and they're fairly f**ked IMO.

Dickerty · 12-05-2014 2:28pm

shrewdness wrote: »

Glen Johnson is absolutely blessed with the lack of English RB candidates. Blessed. It amazes me how he has been a first choice defender for so long, but then again you can only play what you have. Even still I'd probably have someone more solid defensively in else in there. I can see him costing England at some point, especially seeing as the defence isn't the strongest to start with.

I agree that he's lucky to have made it, but I find it odd that some people would argue that Cole should have gone, despite hardly playing this season!
So it seems you are better off not playing than playing poorly!

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 2:28pm

eagle eye wrote: »

This is an issue for sure. Terry is without doubt England's best defender. Its like a bad owner of a club sticking his nose in, the FA are behind Terry not being in the England squad not Hodgson I'd imagine.

I actually read Greg Dyke wanted Terry to go and was willing to do anything to allow him so. He left the final decision to Hodgson, who declined to call him up. He will look very silly if that defense is as bad as I think it will be.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 2:30pm

Dickerty wrote: »

I agree that he's lucky to have made it, but I find it odd that some people would argue that Cole should have gone, despite hardly playing this season!
So it seems you are better off not playing than playing poorly!

In fairness he came in at the end of the season after not playing for a few months and still was 10x better defensively than Johnson.

GavRedKing · 12-05-2014 2:31pm

Dickerty wrote: »

I agree that he's lucky to have made it, but I find it odd that some people would argue that Cole should have gone, despite hardly playing this season!
So it seems you are better off not playing than playing poorly!

The argument for Cole going was that he'd be relatively fresh having only played about a dozen games since the turn of the year but one thing thats hard to question about Cole is how he plays, when he came back in at LB for us it looked like he was never out but had he being picked over Shaw it would have been wrong alright.

Pepe LeFrits · 12-05-2014 2:33pm

Knex. wrote: »

Drop Lampard and get another defender onto that squad, would be my reckoning.

Would be a waste of space. There was an article on this in the Telegraph a few months ago; the spare defender never gets used but spare forwards do. You're much more likely to need an extra forward to bring on to try to change a game than you are to have an injury crisis in defence.

SlickRic · 12-05-2014 2:37pm

Lukker- wrote: »

People who are putting Lallana CM clearly haven't watched too much of him or Southampton this season. He's an attacking midfielder, not a centre-mid.

he can press and he can tackle.

Coutinho is an AM by trade, but played much of season alternating with Sterling during matches in Liverpool's formation in CM.

he has enough about him to be flexible in his role. just because his absolute best position is strictly AM, these players should be able to fill roles in a fluid system. Lallana, Sterling, Barkley and Henderson can all do that, as they've shown with their clubs this year in abundance.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 2:41pm

SlickRic wrote: »

he can press and he can tackle.

Coutinho is an AM by trade, but played much of season alternating with Sterling during matches in Liverpool's formation in CM.

he has enough about him to be flexible in his role. just because his absolute best position is strictly AM, these players should be able to fill roles in a fluid system. Lallana, Sterling, Barkley and Henderson can all do that, as they've shown with their clubs this year in abundance.

He rarely lasts 90 minutes. I think pressing from an attacking midfield role is different from a CM. CM's need to be far more physical. His pressing is good, but I wouldn't say his tackling is the best. He'd be wasted there.

This Englad team aren't Liverpool. They can't afford to play an attacking midfielder in CM because they aren't going to outscore the vast majority of teams. They'd end up conceding as much as Liverpool, but without the penetration.

Lucas Hood · 12-05-2014 2:44pm

Lukker- wrote: »

People who are putting Lallana CM clearly haven't watched too much of him or Southampton this season. He's an attacking midfielder, not a centre-mid.

He's played Cm before. Started last season as a Cm I think.

smackbunnybaby · 12-05-2014 2:44pm

GavRedKing wrote: »

The argument for Cole going was that he'd be relatively fresh having only played about a dozen games since the turn of the year but one thing thats hard to question about Cole is how he plays, when he came back in at LB for us it looked like he was never out but had he being picked over Shaw it would have been wrong alright.

Disappointed Cole isn't going (and I don't like the guy :-) ).
Top class player, who came in at the end of the season and played like he had never been away. These were key league matches and european games.

To not have him in the squad is very stupid. If Baines goes down, I know who'd I'd prefer as my replacement against Germany, Uruguay Brazil etc, the 107 capped guy, not the 1 capped guy.

It's a World Cup, not an away match against Norwich.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 2:48pm

Lucas Hood wrote: »

He's played Cm before. Started last season as a Cm I think.

He may have played a few games there last season, but any time he's hit form this season or last season it's been playing as an attacking midfielder.

Play to your strengths surely.

SlickRic · 12-05-2014 2:52pm

Lukker- wrote: »

This England team aren't Liverpool. They can't afford to play an attacking midfielder in CM because they aren't going to outscore the vast majority of teams. They'd end up conceding as much as Liverpool, but without the penetration.

England have the players to play in the same style, and it would be to the majority of the squad's strengths.

Roy will be his usual safe, pragmatic self though, so there's actually no point in this discussion really!

Welbeck will start for one.

aodea · 12-05-2014 2:56pm

Think England will have a poor world cup. Side overall is just not strong enough. Weakest defence i can remember England having and think Uruguays attacking trio will rip them to shreds. italy will also beat England.

So much pressure on Rooney to perform in this team. Gerrard as well needs to be at his very best. Sterling, sturridge, welbecks, lallannas and Barkleys of this world will be better players in the next world cup coming through this one but this will be a very big test for this bunch.

The fact that media expectaions are very low this time for an english team means they may get away with a poor world cup but they should go out there play an attacking side and see what happens. Think Henderson has to play because of his energy levels and propably play wilshire with him and then gerrard in his new sitting role.

Play sturridge and Oz either side of rooney and have them cause trouble with thier pace. Then you have lallanna, welbeck, barkley to come on and provide differnt options.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 3:00pm

SlickRic wrote: »

England have the players to play in the same style, and it would be to the majority of the squad's strengths.

Roy will be his usual safe, pragmatic self though, so there's actually no point in this discussion really!

Welbeck will start for one.

They could play that way. It'd be hardly the same without Suarez. Rooney can't provide anywhere near that return.

I agree though, they could certainly play a high pressure game but I think that'd require 2 strong defensive midfielders who can tackle, most likely Henderson and Gerrard or Gerrard and Wilshere if he is in decent form.

I think they could play a high pressure game in the future, but to switch to it now a few weeks before the WC starts where they are going to be playing in heat of above 35 c and ridiculous humidity, there is no way they could keep that up, especially against any South American teams.

Beefy78 · 12-05-2014 3:02pm

I'm happy for this post to come back to haunt me but I don't think we'll lose to Italy. I think both sides will go into that one looking not to lose, the conditions for that game (the only one England have which isn't in the South) will be hard on both sides and I don't see much in it. 0-0.

SlickRic · 12-05-2014 3:09pm

Lukker- wrote: »

I think they could play a high pressure game in the future, but to switch to it now a few weeks before the WC starts where they are going to be playing in heat of above 35 c and ridiculous humidity, there is no way they could keep that up, especially against any South American teams.

this is a very good point actually regarding the tournament as a whole.

sterile possession football and park the bus football FTW!

I am pie · 12-05-2014 3:12pm

I tend to agree Beefy, i think that group will have a series of draws, i dont think England are defensively that bad and certainly Italy generally set up not to lose rather than tear anyone apart. I can see a draw in that fixture, Italy willl probably handle Uruguay better than England so it all comes down to whether Suarez and co can rattle Jagielka and Cahill. Both have had good seasons but I don't believe either are up to the pressure of playing without the calming influence of Terry.

Hart also has at least one blooper in there.

TheGoldenAges · 12-05-2014 3:30pm

People forget that in Euro2012, Glen Johnson had a horrid season at Liverpool and then was one of Englands best players at the tournament. Who says he can't do it again?

Knex* · 12-05-2014 3:32pm

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

People forget that in Euro2012, Glen Johnson had a horrid season at Liverpool and then was one of Englands best players at the tournament. Who says he can't do it again?

The season gone by has been by far Johnson's worst since he came to the club. Startlingly so.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 3:42pm

England never disappoint with their terrible squad selections.

Britton and Cork are, by miles, their best defensive central midfielders. They aren't in the squad or on the stand-bye list and, at no stage, have they even been in the conversation. Instead Gerrard will be the first name on the team sheet.

England will go to the tournament, fail to hold on to possession properly as usual and at best will hope to get lucky by parking the bus against superior opposition. All this will be going on in sweltering heat.

If the English ever learn to appreciate central midfielders with close control over bravery they will have a team to be reckoned with.

I am pie · 12-05-2014 3:44pm

SlickRic wrote: »

this is a very good point actually regarding the tournament as a whole.

sterile possession football and park the bus football FTW!

Only really in Manaos, Fortaleza, Recife and Natal. Brazil is huge and the variation in temperatures is noticeable. Below these 4 northern centres the weather will be very suitable for good football, especially in Rio and Sao Paulo.

It won't be 35c. It will more likely be high 20s in the Northern Amazonian area, i.e. in Manoas, it will be humid which will be the more pressing issue. England only have 1 match in Manoas, in the evening against Italy. So, no significant advantage for either side as humidity is not a factor in European football. Only strengthens my opinion that this will play out as a draw. After that they are in Sao Paulo and Belo Horizonte without serious weather issues.

I think this is being overplayed, except for teams playing in Manaos in the Amazon i see the weather is a non-factor. Natal will also be warm (in the mid 20s) and humid, but neither will present the same heat and humidity combination as USA 94 or Mexico 86.

Some of the centres like Curitiba, Porto Alegre and Belo Horizonte, Sao Paulo, Rio, Brasilia will have warm spring like conditions, almost ideal. For England in the group stages if they draw with Italy in the jungle they can rule out the weather, both Italy and England should be thankful to have avoided Costa Rica and Uruguay in the heat of the Amazon.

Germany have it tougher with Fortaleza having hot and humid (high 20s, maybe 30) against Portugal.

Once past the group stage in the 2nd round the hotter northern cities only figure in the winner of spain's group against the 2nd place team in brasils group (fortaleza) and the winner of England's group againtst the 2nd place from Belgium, Russia. Algeria and South Korea.

I don't see the tournament getting bogged down in the weather, although the group stages and 2 second round ties might slow up with the humidity.

Beefy78 · 12-05-2014 3:48pm

Pro. F wrote: »

England never disappoint with their terrible squad selections.

Britton and Cork are, by miles, their best defensive central midfielders. They aren't in the squad or on the stand-bye list and, at no stage, have they even been in the conversation. Instead Gerrard will be the first name on the team sheet.

England will go to the tournament, fail to hold on to possession properly as usual and at best will hope to get lucky by parking the bus against superior opposition. All this will be going on in sweltering heat.

If the English ever learn to appreciate central midfielders with close control over bravery they will have a team to be reckoned with.

You were wrong about Britton two years ago and you're even more wrong now that his club form has dissappeared.

I am pie · 12-05-2014 3:48pm

Pro. F wrote: »

England never disappoint with their terrible squad selections.

Britton and Cork are, by miles, their best defensive central midfielders. They aren't in the squad or on the stand-bye list and, at no stage, have they even been in the conversation. Instead Gerrard will be the first name on the team sheet.

England will go to the tournament, fail to hold on to possession properly as usual and at best will hope to get lucky by parking the bus against superior opposition. All this will be going on in sweltering heat.

If the English ever learn to appreciate central midfielders with close control over bravery they will have a team to be reckoned with.

Gerrard excelled in the role all season for a Liverpool side who very nearly won the league. Nothing wrong with his distribution or close control. He didn't win plaudits this year for his tackling for god's sake.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 3:51pm

I am pie wrote: »

Only really in Manaos, Fortaleza, Recife and Natal. Brazil is huge and the variation in temperatures is noticeable. Below these 4 northern centres the weather will be very suitable for good football, especially in Rio and Sao Paulo.

It won't be 35c. It will more likely be high 20s in the Northern Amazonian area, i.e. in Manoas, it will be humid which will be the more pressing issue. England only have 1 match in Manoas, in the evening against Italy. So, no significant advantage for either side as humidity is not a factor in European football. Only strengthens my opinion that this will play out as a draw. After that they are in Sao Paulo and Belo Horizonte without serious weather issues.

I think this is being overplayed, except for teams playing in Manaos in the Amazon i see the weather is a non-factor. Natal will also be warm (in the mid 20s) and humid, but neither will present the same heat and humidity combination as USA 94 or Mexico 86.

Some of the centres like Curitiba, Porto Alegre and Belo Horizonte, Sao Paulo, Rio, Brasilia will have warm spring like conditions, almost ideal. For England in the group stages if they draw with Italy in the jungle they can rule out the weather, both Italy and England should be thankful to have avoided Costa Rica and Uruguay in the heat of the Amazon.

Germany have it tougher with Fortaleza having hot and humid (high 20s, maybe 30) against Portugal.

Once past the group stage in the 2nd round the hotter northern cities only figure in the winner of spain's group against the 2nd place team in brasils group (fortaleza) and the winner of England's group againtst the 2nd place from Belgium, Russia. Algeria and South Korea.

I don't see the tournament getting bogged down in the weather, although the group stages and 2 second round ties might slow up with the humidity.

I would have thought that even mid 20s is warm enough to make teams tire more quickly.

I am pie · 12-05-2014 3:55pm

Pro. F wrote: »

I would have thought that even mid 20s is warm enough to make teams tire more quickly.

I don't think it's particularly significant. It's certainly not unheard of in Europe, also mid 20s would be the 3pm "high", so more likely the evening games will be in and around 20 which is not threatening. Again the humidity is the real issue, not mild heat which might be an issue if you're not a professional athlete.

It's a minor issue which some teams who have at most 1 fixture in a "hot/humid" northern city where they have to adapt their game plan, I do think we'll see strategically slower games were a draw suits the top 2 sides in those groups.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 3:58pm

I am pie wrote: »

Gerrard excelled in the role all season for a Liverpool side who very nearly won the league. Nothing wrong with his distribution or close control. He didn't win plaudits this year for his tackling for god's sake.

No, he did not excel in the role. He did okay, nothing more. Liverpool were completely unable to control possession and had to rely on furious attack for their success. When they weren't able to furiously attack, or when their furious attacks didn't score, they were unable to control the game to give themselves a rest. That's why they faded so much later in games and that ultimately cost them the league.

I was unfair to imply that all he has is bravery, he has more than that. But not nearly enough of the right skills for the position.

Gerrard can hit a very good pass. He can shoot well and take a good set piece. But his first touch and close control is unreliable. He got a lot of attention and Liverpool did well enough with their mad style of football, but they failed dramatically in the end. If they had had a proper CM in there who could control the possession and calm things down at times, they would have won the league.

I am pie · 12-05-2014 4:02pm

Pro. F wrote: »

No, he did not excel in the role. He did okay, nothing more. Liverpool were completely unable to control possession and had to rely on furious attack for their success. When they weren't able to furiously attack, or when their furious attacks didn't score, they were unable to control the game to give themselves a rest. That's why they faded so much later in games and that ultimately cost them the league.

I was unfair to imply that all he has is bravery, he has more than that. But not nearly enough of the right skills for the position.

Gerrard can hit a very good pass. He can shoot well and take a good set piece. But his first touch and close control is unreliable. He got a lot of attention and Liverpool did well enough with their mad style of football, but they failed dramatically in the end. If they had had a proper CM in there who could control the possession and calm things down at times, they would have won the league.

Disagree strongly, but i think it's not worth taking this further if you seriously believe Britton to be a superior player. Again, the accusations you're levelling at gerrards don't hold up.

Failed dramatically is unbelievably weak assessment across the season where a team overachieves to the extent Liverpool did. No objectivity or balance here i see...just wild prejudice!

Utopia Parkway · 12-05-2014 4:05pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Liverpool did well enough with their mad style of football, but they failed dramatically in the end.

That's a very *ahem* United way of looking at it.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 4:08pm

I am pie wrote: »

Disagree strongly, but i think it's not worth taking this further if you seriously believe Britton to be a superior player. Again, the accusations you're levelling at gerrards don't hold up.

Failed dramatically is unbelievably weak assessment across the season where a team overachieves to the extent Liverpool did. No objectivity or balance here i see...just wild prejudice!

You don't consider throwing away a three goal lead in 10 minutes against Crystal Palace to be a dramatic failure? I thought it was pretty dramatic.

Just like when we were going into the last international tournament and people were telling me how good Gerrard was, I look forward to seeing England finally being able to control possession when they need to. It didn't happen last time, it won't happen now. They'll set up to be solid defensively and hope to get lucky against any good team they face.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 4:10pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

That's a very *ahem* United way of looking at it.

You can forget that line of arguing. I'm not in the slightest biased about Liverpool. I've been arguing about the importance of close control for CMs for years and how it isn't recognised in this part of the world. I was always critical of Carrick when most United fans thought he was a footballing genius.

Utopia Parkway · 12-05-2014 4:13pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You don't consider throwing away a three goal lead in 10 minutes against Crystal Palace to be a dramatic failure? I thought it was pretty dramatic.

They could have won that game 6-0 and it wouldn't have made any difference. They still needed City to drop points at home to Villa and West Ham. I think they might have got one shot on target against City between them over the two games. Chelsea game was when it was lost.

MD1990 · 12-05-2014 4:17pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You can forget that line of arguing. I'm not in the slightest biased about Liverpool. I've been arguing about the importance of close control for CMs for years and how it isn't recognised in this part of the world. I was always critical of Carrick when most United fans thought he was a footballing genius.

Gerrard was England's best player at Euro 2012 & has played well at the big tournaments unlike Rooney was has been disgraceful tbh.

Utopia Parkway · 12-05-2014 4:19pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You can forget that line of arguing. I'm not in the slightest biased about Liverpool. I've been arguing about the importance of close control for CMs for years and how it isn't recognised in this part of the world. I was always critical of Carrick when most United fans thought he was a footballing genius.

References to "mad" style of football and "dramatic failure" are meant to be disparaging. Let's be honest here.

Anyway this is an England squad thread so no point having all this stuff on here. I imagine people are sick of it. I know I am.

12-05-2014 4:22pm

Defense looks like one big accident waiting to happen

ArmaniJeanss · 12-05-2014 4:23pm

Pro. F wrote: »

You don't consider throwing away a three goal lead in 10 minutes against Crystal Palace to be a dramatic failure? I thought it was pretty dramatic.

Clearly you know the almost uniquely extenuating circumstances of this result (rather than doing the 'close it out' thing at 3-0, circumstances dictated that they had more of an incentive to continue to attack than defend) so to continue to hold it up as an example of well, anything, is just pointless.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 4:35pm

The mid 20's would even be above what England are in any way used to playing. I've also heard mentioned that there is a good chance the weather phenomenon El Nino (Not Torres) has a high chance of affecting their final 2 group games and possibly beyond.

glued · 12-05-2014 4:36pm

When have any of those midfielders bar Gerrard played well for England. If Gerrard, Henderson and Wilshere is all England can offer then they're going to get torn apart.

Henderson has done well this year but hasn't done it in the big games for me. He was shocking against Man City. Himself and Gerrard were passengers in that game despite winning 3-2. Same story against Chelsea at the Bridge. Same when he came on against Arsenal. Saying that he is the form midfielder in the squad.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 4:44pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Clearly you know the almost uniquely extenuating circumstances of this result (rather than doing the 'close it out' thing at 3-0, circumstances dictated that they had more of an incentive to continue to attack than defend) so to continue to hold it up as an example of well, anything, is just pointless.

It wasn't because of chasing the goal difference that they conceded that they conceded the second and third goals. They were incapable of playing anything other than direct football (I'm not saying long-ball football) all season and it caused them trouble in the latter stages of games all season. It was the same in the Palace game.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 4:50pm

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

They could have won that game 6-0 and it wouldn't have made any difference. They still needed City to drop points at home to Villa and West Ham. I think they might have got one shot on target against City between them over the two games. Chelsea game was when it was lost.

They needed to win first of all and they failed. If they had won their remaining games after the Chelsea defeat then I wouldn't be calling it a dramatic failure because it wouldn't have been a dramatic failure.

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

References to "mad" style of football and "dramatic failure" are meant to be disparaging. Let's be honest here.

Anyway this is an England squad thread so no point having all this stuff on here. I imagine people are sick of it. I know I am.

I've seen lots of Liverpool posters talking about how mad their football has been all season. There is no denying that it has been helter skelter. The draw against Palace was very dramatic.

You can doubt my objectivity and motives if you like, but you're wrong.

klose · 12-05-2014 5:02pm

Id say suarez will happily slip out and play lw up against Johnson for Uruguay, has had a mare of a season. Other than barry i think the squad is spot on with a mix of youth and experience. Will be interesting to see what system hodgey uses.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 5:11pm

MD1990 wrote: »

Gerrard was England's best player at Euro 2012 & has played well at the big tournaments unlike Rooney was has been disgraceful tbh.

England played a deep defensive game hoping to catch teams on the counter. They adopted the tactics of minnows in spite of their gigantic resources of playing talent. They did that because they were incapable of holding onto possession properly, like they always are. They failed to achieve anything of note in the competition, like they always do.

You can pick one player out and hold him up as the best if you want. The truth is that comparing the job a central midfielder did to the job that a winger, centre-back, full-back, goal keeper or striker did is misguided.

Gerrard was better than Parker as a central midfielder. He was well disciplined with his positioning, hit some nice passes and made some good tackles. He (and Parker) utterly failed to control possession. Controlling possession is a fundamental part of a CMs job. Britton would have transformed that midfield and made them more than a defensive team against the big boys, which was all they were.

Rooney didn't have a great tournament. He was feeding off scraps as is always the case for English attacking players and with his lack of pace he isn't suited to that job.

Ferris_Bueller · 12-05-2014 5:20pm

Fairly spot on squad from England, only player I probably wouldn't have brought would be Lampard, personally would have chose Barry ahead of him but neither will be starters. Will be interesting to see how they line up, the back 5 and Gerrard are pretty much guaranteed starters.

My selection would be:

Gerrard---Henderson---
Sterling---Rooney----Lallana

Sturridge

or

Gerrard

---Henderson

Wilshere--
Sterling

Sturridge

Rooney

For the first time ever in my lifetime I actually like the look of this English side, and wouldn't mind seeing them do well. They have a lot of exciting players and the pressure seems to be off, looking forward to watching them play. On a side note, Glen Johnson must be one of the luckiest full backs there is. He has been playing very poorly the past few months but fortunately for him so has Kyle Walker, and the likes of Flanagan and Clyne are probably seen as too inexperienced to throw in to the starting XI at such short notice, this could be Johnsons last few appearances in an England shirt IMO.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 5:30pm

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Fairly spot on squad from England, only player I probably wouldn't have brought would be Lampard, personally would have chose Barry ahead of him but neither will be starters. Will be interesting to see how they line up, the back 5 and Gerrard are pretty much guaranteed starters.

My selection would be:
Gerrard---Henderson---
Sterling---Rooney----Lallana
Sturridge

or
Gerrard
---Henderson
Wilshere--
Sterling
Sturridge
Rooney

For the first time ever in my lifetime I actually like the look of this English side, and wouldn't mind seeing them do well. They have a lot of exciting players and the pressure seems to be off, looking forward to watching them play. On a side note, Glen Johnson must be one of the luckiest full backs there is. He has been playing very poorly the past few months but fortunately for him so has Kyle Walker, and the likes of Flanagan and Clyne are probably seen as too inexperienced to throw in to the starting XI at such short notice, this could be Johnsons last few appearances in an England shirt IMO.

I'd agree with your first line-up, except I'd drop Rooney for Barkley.

Mr.Micro · 12-05-2014 5:33pm

It's a very good side IMO. Success will depend on Roy getting the right combo. Lallana, Barkley, Shaw, could make all the difference. The defence is probably the weakest link potentially of the squad.

Lukker- · 12-05-2014 5:35pm

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It's a very good side IMO. Success will depend on Roy getting the right combo. Lallana, Barkley, Shaw, could make all the difference. The defence is probably the weakest link potentially of the squad.

Strange really, it could be their strongest asset if they had Terry.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 5:56pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

You were wrong about Britton two years ago and you're even more wrong now that his club form has dissappeared.

Lol at claiming his club form has disappeared. He has carried on being excellent this season despite all the nonsense and poor management going on at the club. He is still Swansea's most important player and still the best English defensive CM going.

If Britton had played two years ago, as he should have, then England would have had a chance to control possession when they needed to. They never came close to that and so squeezed out narrow wins over two weak teams, a draw against a disastrous French team and parked the bus to get a 0-0 with Italy.

Considering the size and talent of the player pool available in English football it was a massive under-achievement. That type of under-achievement has happened in nearly every tournament they have ever entered. The English style of football doesn't work and yet here you are again defending the archetypal English midfielder's inclusion in the team.

Corholio · 12-05-2014 6:05pm

Hodgsons tactics will nullify the team no matter what line up. A lot will depend on how they set themselves up against Uruguay, although I can't see Hodgson allowing the team to play a bit. I don't think their first XI is all that strong though, I completely agree with what Pro.F says about ball retention, there isn't a whole lot of it in that midfield. There's noone there that will dictate possession, certainly not in the big games.

I can see another exit from the tournament defending against a fellow 'big' team and going out.

Beefy78 · 12-05-2014 8:24pm

Pro. F wrote: »

Lol at claiming his club form has disappeared. He has carried on being excellent this season despite all the nonsense and poor management going on at the club. He is still Swansea's most important player and still the best English defensive CM going.

If Britton had played two years ago, as he should have, then England would have had a chance to control possession when they needed to. They never came close to that and so squeezed out narrow wins over two weak teams, a draw against a disastrous French team and parked the bus to get a 0-0 with Italy.

Considering the size and talent of the player pool available in English football it was a massive under-achievement. That type of under-achievement has happened in nearly every tournament they have ever entered. The English style of football doesn't work and yet here you are again defending the archetypal English midfielder's inclusion in the team.

It is like we're talking about different players. I first watched Leon Britton in 2002. I've watched him live and on TV dozens of times across all four divisions. He isn't the player you make him out to be and he has had a mediocre season by his standards this year.

He is the type of player that England absolutely are crying out for but as a player in his own right he just isn't of a good enough standard. Jack Wilshere can do every that Leon Britton can do but is more mobile and more dynamic.

Pro. F · 12-05-2014 8:38pm

Beefy78 wrote: »

It is like we're talking about different players. I first watched Leon Britton in 2002. I've watched him live and on TV dozens of times across all four divisions. He isn't the player you make him out to be and he has had a mediocre season by his standards this year.

He is the type of player that England absolutely are crying out for but as a player in his own right he just isn't of a good enough standard. Jack Wilshere can do every that Leon Britton can do but is more mobile and more dynamic.

I rate Wilshire a lot. He's the only CM they've taken that I'd rate highly. But he's injury prone and just back from an injury so who knows how he will get on.

I don't know how you can watch Britton so much and think that Wilshire can do everything Britton can. Wilshire is nowhere near as good defensively as Britton.

Edit: Regarding Britton's supposedly mediocre season. When Loudrup took over he made Swansea defend deeper and that made Britton's defensive role far less important. He was still their best player for helping them play their way out of trouble. When Monk replace Loudrup he allowed Swansea to push up more when defending, so Britton went back to being the key midfielder when defending to go along with what he was doing in possession. Swansea had a poor season overall, but that was down to the club being poorly managed (mostly by Loudrup, but Monk hasn't been great either). Britton has continued to be their best and most important player and he hasn't lost any of his skill or athletic ability. He's still one of the best deep central midfielders in the league and England still haven't brought any good DCMs with them.

EuropeanSon · 12-05-2014 8:49pm

I'd start Oxlade-Chamberlain over Wilshere every day of the week. Hodgeson probably won't though.

Very odd that Gibbs hasn't been in the shakeup for LB. Far more proven than Shaw, and has had very good games against some of the best club sides in Europe as well as in the Premier League.

England WC Squad

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