British military presence in Ireland 1906

Santa Cruz

CDfm wrote: »

The first part of your question is military records

The census doesn't name soldiers but if you scroll to the end here you will see the military mentioned. The census of 1901 and 1911 are either side of 1906.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/exhibition/dublin/law_order.html


Next were they visable around the city and how would you prove it ? Photos maybe but maybe marriage records. Perhaps events were recorded in the newspapers of the time.

Why the questions OP?

The society pages of the day always gave a good account of officers at garden parties etc. I think that they were a regular presence on the streets going about their business without any hassle

GaelMise

Owryan wrote: »

Pre WWI roughly 10% of the British Army was "Irish" http://www.dublin-fusiliers.com/statistics.html. Between 190-200,000 Irish enlisted during the war, hardly a sign that the army was seen as an oppressive force.

At one stage, late 18th century it was estimated that upwards of a third of the British Army was recruited from Ireland http://belfastmediagroup.com/fascinating-insight-into-the-irish-who-joined-british-army/

Why is it significant that a third of the personell were from Ireland at the time? Ireland accounted for more than a third of the population of the UK at that point.

PhoenixParker

The national museum in Collins Barracks has a major exhibit on Irish Military History at the moment, including sections on the British Garrison in Ireland.

A visit there will give you the best overview of the British military presence in Ireland.
http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/list/soldiering-at-home.aspx

Claw Hammer

The British found it cheaper to maintain troops in Ireland rather than in Britain. Troops were often recruited in Britain and sent to Ireland for training and rotated to and from various parts of the empire. In 1906 in Dublin, there were troops in Beggars Bush, Portobello Wellington, Richmond and Islandbridge Barracks and Dublin Castle on the Southside of Dublin and in Linen Hall, Infirmary Road, Royal And Marlborough and Barracks on the Northside.

GaelMise

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The British found it cheaper to maintain troops in Ireland rather than in Britain. Troops were often recruited in Britain and sent to Ireland for training and rotated to and from various parts of the empire. In 1906 in Dublin, there were troops in Beggars Bush, Portobello Wellington, Richmond and Islandbridge Barracks and Dublin Castle on the Southside of Dublin and in Linen Hall, Infirmary Road, Royal And Marlborough and Barracks on the Northside.

Why would it have been cheaper to station them here?
Internal Security seems to be the main reason for the significant disparity between the stationing of troops in Britain and Ireland.

Jawgap

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The British found it cheaper to maintain troops in Ireland rather than in Britain. Troops were often recruited in Britain and sent to Ireland for training and rotated to and from various parts of the empire. In 1906 in Dublin, there were troops in Beggars Bush, Portobello Wellington, Richmond and Islandbridge Barracks and Dublin Castle on the Southside of Dublin and in Linen Hall, Infirmary Road, Royal And Marlborough and Barracks on the Northside.

Cost had nothing to do with it. Nor were we disproportionately garrisoned.

The whole of the UK was divided up into Regimental Districts as part of the Cardwell and Childers Reforms. There over 100 such districts and about 8 were on the island of Ireland.

Robert Hand

Jawgap wrote: »

The Army had no real function except in war. The notion of maintaining an army to prevent war was not then born: the soldier's purpose was to wage it, and the waging of war could not be taught except by war itself. Therefore the conscientious officer wanted war, just as an actor desires live performance not constant dress rehearsal, but he thought it unnecessary to do much to prepare himself for it. What the Brigade taught in peacetime was conduct.... .....

Might this very good quotation apply uniquely to the British Army alone. It relied on the Navy as against a standing army like the Germans and French, in both World Wars?

Robert Hand

About now, 100 years ago, a British Army cavalry unit of about 200 troopers were departing from Lusk Remount Depot for France. Uniquely as many as maybe double that of civilian grooms went too. [I've a source whose father worked at the Depot back then maintains that they were CONSCRIPTED, this despite conscription starting in the UK in 1916 and never in Ireland.] The Lusk Remount Depot was one of only 4 in the then UK. ...rjh

British Remounts: The remount service became the responsibility of the Army Service Corps in 1891. By 1914 the War Office contained the Director of Transportation and Remounts (COL C H Bridge was in charge of Remounts). Each Command Headquarters (9 in 1914) had a Deputy Assistant Director (or Directors) of Remounts, who was responsible for collecting information on the horse population in his area, by law he had the authority to enter stables and classify animals even in peace time. Each district in the command would have an assigned Purchasing officer (of the 9 Commands 7 had multiple districts). Also, the UK had a Registration Act in peace time to compulsory purchase 14,000 horses in event of war. In 1914 it produced 140,000 horses.

In Pre-war UK there were 4 remount companies;
AA Company — Woolwich. Eastern Command.
BB Company — Dublin. Irish Command.
CC Company — Lusk. Irish Command.
DD Company — Dublin (temporary, although in existence since at least 1904). Irish Command.

There were 5 remount Depots in UK
No. 1 (Dublin, Lusk Farm)
No. 2 (Woolwich)
No.3 (Melton Mowbray)
No.4 (Arborfield Cross, near Reading)
No. 5 (Pinckards farm, Godalming)

And one Depot in South Africa, Pretoria

Robert Hand

From the document "Aspects of Horse Breeding and the Supply of Horses in Victorian Britain"

With the establishment of the Remount Department as a separate branch of the [British] Army in I887, the old system of purchasing horses through the medium of agents or regimental colonels was abandoned in favour of direct purchasing by the Inspector-General of Remounts. Animals so acquired were drafted to the remount centres at Woolwich and [Lusk] Dublin and first used on manoeuvres when they reached six years of age.

General Robert Wardlaw, drawing on twenty-five years' experience of buying cavalry horses in Ireland, articulated a widespread view when he suggested that the government should revert to the traditional practice of acquiring remounts at three-years old and rearing them in a depot or stud farm before despatching them to regiments. By this means, competition from foreign purchasing agents would be circumvented while farmers, spared the cost of an extra year's keep of their saddle type horses, would be encouraged to sell to the Army at a discounted price

Robert Hand

CURRAGH REMOUNT DEPOT. 06 May 1919
Hansard vol 115 cc730-1 730
§17. Major Sir K. FRASER asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider the question of moving the remount depot, at present at the headquarters of the Irish Turf, Curragh Grand Stand, county Kildare, to a more suitable place, in view of the fact that the present remount (temporary) tin stabling there is badly situated, being in close proximity to the racing stables, and as remounts are purchased from all parts of Ireland and collected there, and they must bring disease that will spread through the training establishments, and as it is essential that racing should be encouraged in Ireland in order to keep up the supply of suitable Cavalry remounts, and, again, as there is no grazing at the Curragh and no land for sale except at a high price, while there is plenty of good grazing at Lusk, will he consider the question of 731 returning the Curragh remount depot to Lusk when there is good permanent remount stabling?

§Mr. CHURCHILL I have called for a report, and will communicate with my hon. and gallant Friend later.
§Mr. ARCHDALE Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there have been a great number of cases of parasitic mange brought back by the clothing of Army horses?

§Mr. CHURCHILL I must ask for notice of that question, as I cannot pretend to have direct knowledge of it.

aboysham

Thank you for posting these details, it's easier to find information on Irish horses that Irish people.
Surprising how little has changed with regard to the truth.

johnny_doyle

some pre and post 1906 figures are on the BMI website at

http://www.militaryarchives.ie/collections/online-collections/maps-plans-drawings-collection/history

There are a few drawings re parts of the depot at Lusk (as well as the Magazine Fort etc)

CDfm

I came across this site on deaths

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/CAUSE_OF_DEATH/MURDERED-BY-SOLDIER/murdered-by-soldier.html

I picked the most salacious link , but to assess how people lived it helps to see how they died

tac foley

CDfm wrote: »

I came across this site on deaths

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/CAUSE_OF_DEATH/MURDERED-BY-SOLDIER/murdered-by-soldier.html

I picked the most salacious link , but to assess how people lived it helps to see how they died

What is the connection between these murders in the early 1920s and Ireland in 1906?

tac

CDfm

tac foley wrote: »

What is the connection between these murders in the early 1920s and Ireland in 1906?

tac

oh silly me , I went for the tabloid edition, here is the main link

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/list-1921.html

if you click on the category and the individual names then there bio's , available records, details of the incidents come and somr press cuttings. So these are sources and people might but a different interpretation to the authors on them.


I clicked on the murders but there are also suicides, accidents and illness.

And tac, isn't it the kind of detail you like.

Robert Hand

CDfm wrote: »

I came across this site on deaths


I picked the most salacious link , but to assess how people lived it helps to see how they died

Most surprising for me was the number of suicides ranging from out of windows(?), poison, bullet and more.