Internal competition for Reserves

Copaholic

With one of the main focuses of the current government over the last 5 years being on keeping costs down and getting better bang for your buck perhaps the quickest and most cost effective method of recruiting additional fulltime guards would have been to hold an internal competition for reserves firstly before holding a public competition resulting in 25000 applicants.
There are many reserves who have more than 5 years of experience and have demonstrated that they are up to the job and have a passion to serve full-time.
However this opportunity is now gone but there is no reason why going forward there should not be a completion within the reserves which would occur in parallel with any public completion.
Im not suggesting that reserves would simply apply and get in but would be required to partake in an internal competition.
Any thoughts out there----im sure there are some

ShodenMcClane

5 Years doing what though? I know a few full timers who thought, through no fault of the reservists, that the reservists were dead weight, in the way and that you can only learn the job through actually doing it, i.e making arrests, using your notepad, and going to court. Something the reserves couldn't do.

Copaholic

Perhaps the full timers such as those you refer to should be more proactive with the reserves and view them as a useful asset to the force rather than "dead weight". They should use their time with the reserves as an opportunity to demonstrate on the job skills and to impart their full time on the job knowledge and experience to reserves.
Please note that im not having a go at you or the full timers you know but reserves generally should be viewed in a positive sense rather than negatively.

ShodenMcClane

Copaholic wrote: »

Perhaps the full timers such as those you refer to should be more proactive with the reserves and view them as a useful asset to the force rather than "dead weight". They should use their time with the reserves as an opportunity to demonstrate on the job skills and to impart their full time on the job knowledge and experience to reserves.
Please note that im not having a go at you or the full timers you know but reserves generally should be viewed in a positive sense rather than negatively.

However positively they want to feel the general consensus is if **** kicks off the reservists can't do anything because they have no power, the full timers end up having to watch the reservists backs and the public sees people in Garda uniforms who aren't doing anything. It's a no win situation. Again the full timers I was taking too weren't blaming the reservists, more the ill conceived idea of the reservists.

WilcoOut

ShodenMcClane wrote: »

5 Years doing what though? I know a few full timers who thought, through no fault of the reservists, that the reservists were dead weight, in the way and that you can only learn the job through actually doing it, i.e making arrests, using your notepad, and going to court. Something the reserves couldn't do.

I was able to demonstrate all that in my interview for the fulltime

No question marks over my head

iv already seen what the job is about and what it can throw at me

ill let ya know how college life is

Rothmans

WilcoOut wrote: »

I was able to demonstrate all that in my interview for the fulltime

No question marks over my head

iv already seen what the job is about and what it can throw at me

ill let ya know how college life is

So the interview went well then :P

WilcoOut

Rothmans wrote: »

So the interview went well then :P

Walked it!

timwynne

ShodenMcClane wrote: »

However positively they want to feel the general consensus is if **** kicks off the reservists can't do anything because they have no power, the full timers end up having to watch the reservists backs and the public sees people in Garda uniforms who aren't doing anything. It's a no win situation. Again the full timers I was taking too weren't blaming the reservists, more the ill conceived idea of the reservists.

wow - you have no clue


Stop taking highstool chat as gospel

If you got off your backside and were proactive you would be able to speak from your own experience but unfortunately your on here regurgitating someone elses scutter

If your successful with your interview, be prepared to be in the college with a sizable cohort of GR's and youll be playing catch up with them

Copaholic

does any one have any thoughts on the internal competition for reserves which I originally started with ?

ShodenMcClane

I have nothing against reservists, nor do the guards I have spoken with. I'm not sure why the two of ye have gotten so defensive. This is the opinion of members, not mine. Must be an element of truth in it though with a reaction like that.

Why the hell so many reservists on boards come across aloof and defencive is beyond me.

ill let ya know how college life is

Wow, arrogance and then judgment on others without basis. Are these qualities you think would make a good member?

If you got off your backside and were proactive you would be able to speak from your own experience but unfortunately your on here regurgitating someone elses scutter

If your successful with your interview, be prepared to be in the college with a sizable cohort of GR's and youll be playing catch up with them

Don't presume to know anything about my life, presumption on others stations in life won't stand to you in the long run (unless you want to go into actuary of course). Besides, if the rest of their grammar is as good as the two of yours; I certainly won't have to be playing catch up in that respect!

Anyway, please go ahead and feel free to disagree with anything I have said but attacking the poster isn't very entertaining, becoming, or interesting.

Copaholic

Lads, please keep this on the topic on hand and keep it constructive, well....any thoughts on the original idea

BRB

Copaholic wrote: »

Lads, please keep this on the topic on hand and keep it constructive, well....any thoughts on the original idea

Many people won't join the reserves but would like to join the full time force.
They may not have the time with work/college or other commitments. Rather unfair to give the reserves preferential treatment in the sense that it would ONLY be open to reserves.

Now, that said, reserves do indeed have first hand experience of the job. And that will definitely show come interview. But at interview they will also find fantastic gardai from people who haven't joined the reserve.

Leaving competition just to reserves I feel, would be excluding people who could turn out to be better than any reserve but didn't have the time to volunteer.

My 2 cents.

Boaty

What if I said reserves aren't good enough to be Gardai?
How many reserves have fail Garda recuitment before?

Bold statement not saying its true, just widening the discussion.

Scouser

I fully expect to pass that interview, was a handy 40mins if the truth be told

Easier than my GR interview I felt, there seemed to be alot more time to probe in that

Best of luck to all and see you in the college

galalala123

I'd be a bit worried about someone that thought they walked the interview. I was reasonably happy but theres things i definitely would have changed and bits i would have loved to add in. Confidence is good, arrogance is not.

Santa Cruz

Scouser wrote: »

I fully expect to pass that interview, was a handy 40mins if the truth be told

Easier than my GR interview I felt, there seemed to be alot more time to probe in that

Best of luck to all and see you in the college

You may have done well but if there are others in excess of whats being recruited did better than you wont be seeing the inside of the college.
If you get in ask them to widen the door to allow room for your head to get through

BRB

galalala123 wrote: »

I'd be a bit worried about someone that thought they walked the interview. I was reasonably happy but theres things i definitely would have changed and bits i would have loved to add in. Confidence is good, arrogance is not.

The interview could have gone extremely well and in their favour? If they felt they were comfortable and performed well there's no reason for them not to say they walked it.

It would be a different story if they said they were a reserve and therefore better than the rest of the applicants. And based the "walk" through the interview solely on their reserve volunteering.

Sierra Oscar

Recruiting solely from the reserves would have been counter-productive. Management is trying to tick the various boxes for the Department of Justice in order to keep the operational strength of the entire force above an acceptable level. Seeking to only move people from the reserves into full time roles would not have brought any additional manpower into the force.

People need to realize that the reserves was setup in the first place to supplement the current manpower in the force. In no way was it envisaged that recruitment would solely come from within the reserves.

Copaholic

are there any reserves out there with any thoughts which might balance or futher open up the debate.
every ones view is welcome and contributes to the discussion so feel free to add a post..

timwynne

Santa Cruz wrote: »

You may have done well but if there are others in excess of whats being recruited did better than you wont be seeing the inside of the college.
If you get in ask them to widen the door to allow room for your head to get through

if that poster doesnt believe they are good enough to do the job then how will the interview board believe it!

you really are a misery guts SC

Santa Cruz

timwynne wrote: »

if that poster doesnt believe they are good enough to do the job then how will the interview board believe it!

you really are a misery guts SC

He comes on blowing his hole. What do you expect?

timwynne

Santa Cruz wrote: »

He comes on blowing his hole. What do you expect?

I have followed that poster for a bit

usually a decent contributor in fairness, hope he/she makes it


but you still remain a misery guts!

Santa Cruz

timwynne wrote: »

I have followed that poster for a bit

usually a decent contributor in fairness, hope he/she makes it


but you still remain a misery guts!

Have I upset your mutual admiration society?:cool:

Copaholic

so far the consensus is that there should not be a separate recruitment targeting the reserves thus meaning that one open to all recruitment campaign as per this round and previously, best serves the interest of all........

thekopend

Yet another can of worms!!!! Some things never change

octigen

I am not a reserve and have completed my interview for AGS. I think most people who served in the reserves for the sole purpose of getting in full-time in the AGS. It should have being made clear from the outset that being in the reserves would not be a major advantage in the next recruitment drive. I think reserves were hard done by in this recruitment drive and I would have being in favour of reserves with 1year+ experience getting some sort of an advantage. Not sure how it would have worked and ultimately it is not the case.

I do feel however that after the interview stage results are out PAS should release more information to give clarity on the recruitment drive going forward. If the plan is to bring people forward in groups of 600 then anyone who is in not in the top half of Band 2 should forget about it as a career unless they can wait for 2017.

Yogi Bear

octigen wrote: »

. I think reserves were hard done by in this recruitment drive and I would have being in favour of reserves with 1year+ experience getting some sort of an advantage. Not sure how it would have worked and ultimately it is not the case. .

I think there should have been two competitions running parallel to each other like the English & Irish one at present.

If they were taking on 300 recruits, they should have set aside say 50 to 100 spots for serving reserves. Reserves would have to do all the same aptitude tests and interviews the same. The only difference would be that that the % of getting in would increase from 1% (300/25000) to 5% / 10% (50 or 100/1000).

The reserve was never set up originally as people have stated, as a route into the full time, but it does make sense that for lads who have a few years under their belt in the reserve and are doing well at it should be given the chance to progress. Not all reserves are entitled to become full time members just because they are a reserve. It’s a bit like all regulars can’t become a sergeant, or all sergeants become inspectors.

mfergus

If the reserves had done an aptitude test to join the reserves then I would think they should have received some recognition earlier in this recruitment drive.

As it stands I believe the reserves should be level with everybody else up until interview stage and should get absolutely no advantage prior to the interview.

At interview stage they should have a clear advantage then and that's when your experience as been a reserve should come into play...

Yogi Bear

mfergus wrote: »

If the reserves had done an aptitude test to join the reserves then I would think they should have received some recognition earlier in this recruitment drive.

As it stands I believe the reserves should be level with everybody else up until interview stage and should get absolutely no advantage prior to the interview.

At interview stage they should have a clear advantage then and that's when your experience as been a reserve should come into play...

It's getting that chance to get in to the interview is the problem.
If you have fluent Irish you have a better % chance in getting to that interview. Why not give a reserve the same increased % chance also.

mfergus

Yogi Bear wrote: »

It's getting that chance to get in to the interview is the problem.
If you have fluent Irish you have a better % chance in getting to that interview. Why not give a reserve the same increased % chance also.

Because there's a shortage in fluent Irish speakers. There's no shortage in ordinary people!

pilatus

I am a reserve member. I have been in the organisation for 3 years and heading into my 4th.

In my time so far I have had a generally good experience regarding integrating with full time members. There have been a few sour eggs who would rather I hadn't been there & probably still have that feeling towards all reserves. There are also a few who have had that view initially, though through hard work and having been there to give them a hand , have since come to respect me as someone who can play their part.

I've too date completed over 850 hours of voluntary service. I've attended motor accidents, been involved in multiple brawls, been targeted by a drunken mob while trying to help a very drunk young lady, attended the scene of an attempted suicide, had to dodge a speeding car that failed to stop, attended a burglary in progress ........twice, one of the incidents I had to tackle the perp myself and apprehended said individual until my colleagues could assist, I've been to court twice also. I've been recognised by an unsavory young man I've had a few run ins with outside of the job.

It's not all bad, I've attended sporting events, scouts events, local parades, sports home comings, station open days for school's, charity events where full time and reservists gave up their free time to help out the local community.

These are the sort of incidents alot of reserves attend every day and they are challenging, tiring, exhausting physically and mentally. Garda reserves are not paper police men/women. The vast majority of us go in to help and are out of pocket doing so, and nobody say your getting the allowance, it wouldn't even start to look at the expenditure we have.

I just wanted to put up this post so people maybe have a bit better of an idea of what we do before anyone applies for either full time or reserve, the job is most likely not what you expect it to be. And personally I believe reserves should have an advantage when it comes to applying for full time, given their service and effort that is put in.

I also believe that for members above the cut off age, there should be an exemption or some sort of consideration given to them. They are good enough to wear the uniform for free but not good enough to wear it full time? ???? It is ageist and patronising .

mycro89

octigen wrote: »

I am not a reserve and have completed my interview for AGS. I think most people who served in the reserves for the sole purpose of getting in full-time in the AGS. It should have being made clear from the outset that being in the reserves would not be a major advantage in the next recruitment drive. I think reserves were hard done by in this recruitment drive and I would have being in favour of reserves with 1year+ experience getting some sort of an advantage. Not sure how it would have worked and ultimately it is not the case.

I do feel however that after the interview stage results are out PAS should release more information to give clarity on the recruitment drive going forward. If the plan is to bring people forward in groups of 600 then anyone who is in not in the top half of Band 2 should forget about it as a career unless they can wait for 2017.

You refer to band 2, is that band from stage 1 or stage 2 of the process??

octigen

mycro89 wrote: »

You refer to band 2, is that band from stage 1 or stage 2 of the process??

I think band 2 in stage 2 will definitely be called sometime over next 2 years. I think they need to give the people in bands 2 or 3 from stage 1 some indication of the numbers of people they plan to bring forward in the process.

Copaholic

mfergus wrote: »

Because there's a shortage in fluent Irish speakers. There's no shortage in ordinary people!

that's the point, the reserves are not ordinary people but rather have gained significant experience on the job and have done it for no pay. when reserves sit down to the table they bring with them additional qualities and perspective

Copaholic

mfergus wrote: »

Because there's a shortage in fluent Irish speakers. There's no shortage in ordinary people!

pilatus wrote: »

I am a reserve member. I have been in the organisation for 3 years and heading into my 4th.

In my time so far I have had a generally good experience regarding integrating with full time members. There have been a few sour eggs who would rather I hadn't been there & probably still have that feeling towards all reserves. There are also a few who have had that view initially, though through hard work and having been there to give them a hand , have since come to respect me as someone who can play their part.

I've too date completed over 850 hours of voluntary service. I've attended motor accidents, been involved in multiple brawls, been targeted by a drunken mob while trying to help a very drunk young lady, attended the scene of an attempted suicide, had to dodge a speeding car that failed to stop, attended a burglary in progress ........twice, one of the incidents I had to tackle the perp myself and apprehended said individual until my colleagues could assist, I've been to court twice also. I've been recognised by an unsavory young man I've had a few run ins with outside of the job.

It's not all bad, I've attended sporting events, scouts events, local parades, sports home comings, station open days for school's, charity events where full time and reservists gave up their free time to help out the local community.

These are the sort of incidents alot of reserves attend every day and they are challenging, tiring, exhausting physically and mentally. Garda reserves are not paper police men/women. The vast majority of us go in to help and are out of pocket doing so, and nobody say your getting the allowance, it wouldn't even start to look at the expenditure we have.

I just wanted to put up this post so people maybe have a bit better of an idea of what we do before anyone applies for either full time or reserve, the job is most likely not what you expect it to be. And personally I believe reserves should have an advantage when it comes to applying for full time, given their service and effort that is put in.

I also believe that for members above the cut off age, there should be an exemption or some sort of consideration given to them. They are good enough to wear the uniform for free but not good enough to wear it full time? ???? It is ageist and patronising .

I'M glad to see the perspective of the reserve being posted and I agree with what your saying. your comment on the consideration or over 35 age exemption for reserves entering a completion is valid and very welcome and makes complete sense.

There are in the region of 1200 reserves and that is about the agreed limit, Unless they change the limit on reserve numbers or start to recruit some from the reserves, moral within this group may dwindle if not already occurring. Unless there is a steady and regular stream of recruits from the reserves, recruitment of reserves will need to cease. the AGS has put significant resources in to reserves and so the last thing it wants to see is people leaving the reserves as the investment is then lost.

Copaholic

come on somebody out there must have something to add or contribute,,,,,

Santa Cruz

It is obvious that full time members and reserves are disillusioned with the present service. Full time morale is of course rock bottom after pay cuts, no promotion opportunities due to non recruitment, massive retirements change of working hours etc. Reserves due to lack of acceptance, no upgrading of powers and failure to have their service recognised for recruitment purpose.

If Reserves are to be accepted they will have to be given the powers and resources so that full time members can see them as an asset and not as some form of "hobby bobbies". With the long overdue introduction of a Police Authority (something GRA AND AGSI have called for over 30 years) maybe it is an opportunity to complete an overall review of recruitment, promotion, civilianisation, development of Reserve into a realistic asset etc.
Examination of manpower levels should create a system of annual recruitment which allows for a replacement of retiring members. That would do away with the politicisation of the police where Government use Garda Recruitment as an election stunt e.g "We will recruit 1000 new Gardai" regardless of any policy plan as to where these Gardai should be allocated, level of training etc. How many times have we seen a new Minister of Justice coming in and them miraculously renovations of or provision of new Garda stations commence in his constituency regardless of the fact that Gardai in a constituency with no Minister are working out of dilapidated kips left over from the RIC

Copaholic

Yes the introduction of the police authority is very welcome. this is an opportunity to make necessary changes such as:

1 how the Gardaí operate
2 Removal of political interference
3 Reform of the mechanics of recruitment including recognition for reserve service in fulltime garda recruitment.
4. A whole lot of other stuff

You comment Santa Cruz is welcome and constructive and representative of others out there.

Can we get some more contributors please as we know ye are out there and this is a worthwhile method of voicing your opinions and thoughts

.

wannabegard

fully in favor of this. I have no reason to stay in the garda reserve now. I am currently applying for various police forces in the United Kingdom now but i obviously wish i could do this job at home. I hope that this happens

Santa Cruz

wannabegard wrote: »

fully in favor of this. I have no reason to stay in the garda reserve now. I am currently applying for various police forces in the United Kingdom now but i obviously wish i could do this job at home. I hope that this happens

It is a big decision to go to the UK police forces and I think that you have to meet residency requirements. I would imagine the Met would be the best option as you would be in an international multi cultural city.

I would say that if the economy can get it's act together here then the Garda number swill be boosted higher than presently forecasted. Service overseas won't be a hindrance if the opportunity to join up here comeas in a few years.

However when you have a prospective Commissioner saying that she believes that the Gardai can do the job even after all the cutbacks, reduction in numbers I am not very optimistic. I do feel the Gardai need someone who just won't echo Government propaganda

wannabegard

I was born in the UK mate so i have the passport. Im fairly fed up of waiting for it here. Im going to start with the met alright and see where i go from there.

ShodenMcClane

Santa Cruz wrote: »

However when you have a prospective Commissioner saying that she believes that the Gardai can do the job even after all the cutbacks, reduction in numbers I am not very optimistic. I do feel the Gardai need someone who just won't echo Government propaganda

What do you expect with political appointments?

Copaholic

best of luck to you in the Uk. did you try the PSNI earlier this year.

the army are recruiting 500 but guess what they did--took the 500 from their reserves and then plan to have open external campaign. this makes perfect sense and echoes what I said when I opened this thread . the reserves whether army or gardai would be quicker to train as they are already partly trained and this would have made sence from an ecomomic point of view. why didn't they do this regards the gardai is typical of how government works---they never make the most obvious beneficial decision. why not---well theres probably some reason for this but its not the official one (level playing field for every one). I wil let ye do the thinking on that

almeraguy

I can't come up with a good argument against having an internal competition for reserves. I was against the idea but I can't see why reserves shouldn't have the opportunity to progress up the ladder.
There really should be some form of internal promotion process for reserves.

KERSPLAT!

almeraguy wrote: »

I can't come up with a good argument against having an internal competition for reserves. I was against the idea but I can't see why reserves shouldn't have the opportunity to progress up the ladder.
There really should be some form of internal promotion process for reserves.

But they do have the chance, enter the competition like everyone else. If they can't get through the same regime as everyone else then they don't deserve it IMO. If they get through the tests, interviews, medicals, etc then fair play and well deserved, like everyone else that makes it

galalala123

I think there should have been a seperate reserve stream instead of the irish stream and it would have been more beneficial for AGS in the long run as they would end up with better trained gardaí with more experience and a larger amount of reserves as there would be an incentive to join. I still think being a reserve in this competition was hugely beneficial but there should be some pathway between reserves and full time positions. It may well happen in the future but they would have to reform the reserve training and recruitment

almeraguy

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

But they do have the chance, enter the competition like everyone else. If they can't get through the same regime as everyone else then they don't deserve it IMO. If they get through the tests, interviews, medicals, etc then fair play and we'll deserved, like everyone else that makes it

They are already members of AGS. Becoming a full time member would be a promotion. I can't come up with a good reason why that promotion can't be handled internally. If the reserve shows the aptitudes and qualities for full time work why shouldn't they be promoted to the position of trainee Garda? It obviously shouldn't be just be a nod from the super. It could be an intensive internal promotion process.
I've thought about this a lot during the current recruitment and i can't come up with a good reason against having an internal process for reserves.

KERSPLAT!

almeraguy wrote: »

They are already members of AGS. Becoming a full time member would be a promotion. I can't come up with a good reason why that promotion can't be handled internally. If the reserve shows the aptitudes and qualities for full time work why shouldn't they be promoted to the position of trainee Garda? It obviously shouldn't be just be a nod from the super. It could be an intensive internal promotion process.
I've thought about this a lot during the current recruitment and i can't come up with a good reason against having an internal process for reserves.

My good reason is, if they can't get through the process the same as everyone else they they don't deserve it or haven't earned it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion

almeraguy

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

My good reason is, if they can't get through the process the same as everyone else they they don't deserve it or haven't earned it. I'm not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion

That's fair point.

What would your thoughts be on sergeants, inspectors and superintendent s having to compete for those positions with private citizens who have relevant experience for the role (eg having come from other police forces)?

ShodenMcClane

almeraguy wrote: »

That's fair point.

What would your thoughts be on sergeants, inspectors and superintendent s having to compete for those positions with private citizens who have relevant experience for the role (eg having come from other police forces)?

Come on now, no need to be disingenuous!

Copaholic

From the outside looking in the current campaign looks fair as all have equal chance at the getting in.
However not all those that are competing have actual on the job experience for the actual job they are applying for and this experience is recognised way too late in the stages.
Most other job when advertised clearly state that experience is an advantage but what is AGS so different that it doesn't make better and obvious use of the experienced reserves they already have