Internal competition for Reserves

Copaholic

There is no good reason why a properly run internal campaign for reserves couldn't work perfectly well

almeraguy

ShodenMcClane wrote: »

Come on now, no need to be disingenuous!

I know it was a stretch to make that assertion but I honestly wasn't trying to be disingenuous.
I was just trying to reinforce the point that reserves are members of AGS. Why should they not be promoted internally? It's not easy to be promoted to sergeant but there is a process there for that promotion. Why not have an equivalent process for reserves?

Copaholic

Precisely, reserves and the experience they have gained are as obvious as the nose on ones face but why are they treated they way they are in recruitment.
There was plenty of time between the last campaign in 2009 to last December to address this issue but it was as if it was deliberately ignored.
Why is that.

Copaholic

Im heading out for he night now so wont be around until the early hours of tomorrow

Copaholic

the reality is that things never get changed by chance but rather get changed due to pressure. In that context the reserves probably will not get the internal competition or proper recognition in an external campaign until they keep pressure until it is corrected and sufficiently addressed.

almeraguy

Copaholic wrote: »

the reality is that things never get changed by chance but rather get changed due to pressure. In that context the reserves probably will not get the internal competition or proper recognition in an external campaign until they keep pressure until it is corrected and sufficiently addressed.

I don't think that reserves should be treated differently for an external campaign. Its a recruitment campaign and all applicants should be treated the same. Applicants have a chance to show their experience during the process and reserves do very well at this point. There should IMO be an internal promotion process for reserves. This would allow positions to be filled by reserves and any remaining positions the be filled by a recruitment campaign.
Anyway these are just my thoughts on the matter. I don't know what the best solution is. It would be good for all to hear more ideas on how reserves could progress to become full time members.

Copaholic

well put and good point---general recruitment to be as is but with better internal recognition and promotion for reserves who meet required standards.

how does this come about---union and political pressure, maybe the new garda authority will shine some sense on this

BRB

I think it is fine the way it is. But that could be coming from a biased view of not being in the reserves but wanting to be a Garda.

Just because you are a reserve shouldn't mean you are allowed to skip those aptitude tests. If you can't make it through them I don't think they deserve it.
Reserve service definitely should be, and in my opinion it was, recognised at the interview stage. Reserves were able to use their experience on the job to provide examples of the competences.
I'm sure this allowed reserves to score high on the interview and be placed ahead of others.

The need for a open recruitment campaign allows for a broader range of applicants all with different experiences. I think that's necessary for AGS.

almeraguy

BRB wrote: »

I think it is fine the way it is. But that could be coming from a biased view of not being in the reserves but wanting to be a Garda.

Just because you are a reserve shouldn't mean you are allowed to skip those aptitude tests. If you can't make it through them I don't think they deserve it.
Reserve service definitely should be, and in my opinion it was, recognised at the interview stage. Reserves were able to use their experience on the job to provide examples of the competences.
I'm sure this allowed reserves to score high on the interview and be placed ahead of others.

The need for a open recruitment campaign allows for a broader range of applicants all with different experiences. I think that's necessary for AGS.

I agree that reserves shouldn't be able to skip ahead in the open recruitment process. It should be a level playing field.

I also think a rigorous internal process would be fair to reserves. It would allow those that are excelling in the role to progress to a trainee position. I wouldn't like to see a free pass into from reserves into trainee role but I think exams and interviews would be fair. If they aren't performing well as a reserve then they wouldn't make it through the process.

Its just an alternative idea. I'm not a reserve and im against the idea of reserves getting a free pass to the interview stage of the recruitment process but as they are members of AGS I think they should be handled internally.

almeraguy

Copaholic wrote: »

well put and good point---general recruitment to be as is but with better internal recognition and promotion for reserves who meet required standards.

how does this come about---union and political pressure, maybe the new garda authority will shine some sense on this

Are reserves represented by a union? Reserves should get organised and focused on the goal. Get a good spokesperson to push the idea and keep the pressure on.

Copaholic

Well I think that we have come to a successful and much agreeable solution--reserves (as AGS members) to be selected for trainee positions by internal competition.

That's the other thing are reserves represented--surely they must be if members of AGS but are they represented with sufficient clout (not sure about spelling) --looks like they don't and this does need to be addressed.

One further question--if there was such an internal competition should the age restriction for reserves be increased ?

irishgti

What bother as a reserve then at all....?? Why bother having a full time job doing 40+ hours a week then after all that go do another 10-12 hour shift as a reserve plus the drive to and from the station, Why bother not going out with friends on a sat night it's so much better to be standing on the corner of a street somewhere in Ireland babysitting drunk people putting drunks onto the recovery position because they don't know when to stop drinking, been asked to gave people your hat for them to wear or been pestered to stand into pictures and it's rarely for tourists. So what's the point of it all? No advantage then. You go Out on the piss on a sat night and have a great night pissup.
Why should you apply not having experienced any of that in every other job you need to have experience why not the same for the AGS. There needs to be some sort of internal promotion or just open it up to reserves no civilians, do minimum amount of service before you can apply
That's my 2ć

BRB

irishgti wrote: »

What bother as a reserve then at all....?? Why bother having a full time job doing 40+ hours a week then after all that go do another 10-12 hour shift as a reserve plus the drive to and from the station, Why bother not going out with friends on a sat night it's so much better to be standing on the corner of a street somewhere in Ireland babysitting drunk people putting drunks onto the recovery position because they don't know when to stop drinking, been asked to gave people your hat for them to wear or been pestered to stand into pictures and it's rarely for tourists. So what's the point of it all? No advantage then. You go Out on the piss on a sat night and have a great night pissup.
Why should you apply not having experienced any of that in every other job you need to have experience why not the same for the AGS. There needs to be some sort of internal promotion or just open it up to reserves no civilians, do minimum amount of service before you can apply
That's my 2ć

It was never founded as an alternative way into the organisation. Voluntary work helps you at interview level. So does being a reserve.

I'm not taking away from being a reserve, yes it had all the experiences needed for a job in AGS. But you can apply for plenty of jobs without experience and get by at an interview.

But I still think as a reserve you shouldn't skip the aptitude tests. Reserve work helps at interview levels and that's where experience comes into play.

Copaholic

What I can gather from those aptitude tests is that each time they did one the order of candidates completely changed leading one to wonder was there any consistency amongst the tests in what if any goal they were trying to achieve.

If the order is always changing then the aptitude test appear to resemble musical chairs and its a bit of luck where you end up.

irishgti

Everybody has heard of people throughout the years who have got into the guards done the training graduated then realised they cant do the job either the hours or the people you have to deal with on a constant basis so does it not make sense that if you VOLUNTEER that you would know weather or not you like /able for the job

Rothmans

Copaholic wrote: »

What I can gather from those aptitude tests is that each time they did one the order of candidates completely changed leading one to wonder was there any consistency amongst the tests in what if any goal they were trying to achieve.

If the order is always changing then the aptitude test appear to resemble musical chairs and its a bit of luck where you end up.

It's a more robust testing method. Testing candidates a number if times rules out any flukes. I was astounded that I remained in a similar position throughout the the three tests, so from what I cab see they were quite well done. Unfortunately the tests can't take account of people having a bad day

Copaholic

The reserves know what they are getting into and a lot less likely to drop out unlike non reserves

Furthermore ive noticed a significant amount of chat on the garda pay thread which leads me to believe that if garda pay is an issue it will lead to drop outs as the starting pay is low--approximately 23000 euros and to build up to 28000 your looking at working about half the weekends in a year plus nights etc. So I can see a good number dropping out when they see the work and experience the pay esp when something better comes along.

only my opinion

BRB

Copaholic wrote: »

The reserves know what they are getting into and a lot less likely to drop out unlike non reserves

Furthermore ive noticed a significant amount of chat on the garda pay thread which leads me to believe that if garda pay is an issue it will lead to drop outs as the starting pay is low--approximately 23000 euros and to build up to 28000 your looking at working about half the weekends in a year plus nights etc. So I can see a good number dropping out when they see the work and experience the pay esp when something better comes along.

only my opinion

The amount of chat is a good thing. People know what they are getting into financial wise. Yes you'll have drop outs. You'll always have drop outs.

The testing didn't allow for a bad day but I found it fair. I scored high on the first and not so well on the second when I did it hungover. It's only fair they give everyone the chance. Reserves volunteered knowing it wasn't a pathway into AGS but it did help, in my opinion, being a reserve when it mattered most. In the interview.

Copaholic

correct--it was not originally designed as a pathway to fulltime but now given how successful it has been theres no reason why it couldn't be amended and have its own internal system reaping the benefits of highly experienced and motivated reserves becoming trainees

BRB

Copaholic wrote: »

correct--it was not originally designed as a pathway to fulltime but now given how successful it has been theres no reason why it couldn't be amended and have its own internal system reaping the benefits of highly experienced and motivated reserves becoming trainees

Not everyone that wants to be a member of AGS has the time to join the reserves. The organisation wouldn't get the same quality of candidates if it just stuck to reserves.

irishgti

Lots of people in the reserves don't have the time they also have jobs family's kids and WE still manage to make the time to go in and do 10-12 hours a week this bullsh## excuse" I don't have time " how will u make the time to be full-time AGS it's total excuse to suit urself to make u feel better

BRB

irishgti wrote: »

Lots of people in the reserves don't have the time they also have jobs family's kids and WE still manage to make the time to go in and do 10-12 hours a week this bullsh## excuse" I don't have time " how will u make the time to be full-time AGS it's total excuse to suit urself to make u feel better

I'll make the time because I'll be leaving full time education and I'll have to leave my club in order to go down to training. I'll also be leaving my part time job.
So cop on to yourself. The only way I'd join the reserves would be to give up my social life. And to be quite frank, everyone needs a social life. You develop your social skills and how you deal with people.

Copaholic

That excuse of non reserves not having the time is getting a bit old and lame now isn't it

BRB

Copaholic wrote: »

That excuse of non reserves not having the time is getting a bit old and lame now isn't it

Reserves signed up knowing it wasn't a pathway in. Yet they complain cause yet can't get through the aptitude tests.

I'm not slating reserves. They have my respect but I'm not willing to give them an easy pass through the recruitment campaign. It stood to them at interview and they all did well.

irishgti

Interview keeps been mentioned but how maby got to interview stage and passed and how many used the fact they were reserves any figures?

KERSPLAT!

Almeraguy, I'm not ignoring you just just busy with the football, I will get back to you

Mod

Keep it civil lads, each person is entitled to their opinion. We've already had one of these closed.

Cheers

-KERSPLAT!

BRB

irishgti wrote: »

Interview keeps been mentioned how maby got to interview stage and passed and how many used the fact they were reserves any figures '

If you were at the interview stage an didn't use the fact you were a reserve you'd be a fool. Plus I'm certain it was on your application whether you are a member of the reserve or not.

I have no figures as I don't even know how many got through the interview stage.

If you managed to make it to the interview and pass you deserve the job. Reserves who didn't reach the interviews are angry at the non-reserves who were deemed more suitable.

Assessments for the full time force are more rigorous than for the reserves.

BRB

It's just my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. I just disagree.

irishgti

So it's not a fact it's your opinion that it helps been a reserve when it comes to interview how about if ur in a quiet station in a small town with very little going on with no big rugby games or with no music concerts what sort of experience can you talk about then in your interview the fact that you are in the back seat of a patrol car as for that little box to tick to say you are reserve or not I'm not going there

ShodenMcClane

There are so many socioeconomic reasons why only recruiting from the reserves would be a terrible idea. I'm sure everyone can reason them out given 5 minutes of unbiased thought. I would go into it but I'm watching the world cup. Do any, reading whatsoever on how unpaid internships keep certain jobs in the reach of the privileged / a small demographic and you'll be skirting the issues at hand. I know it's not the same but it's pushing the same buttons.

The sgt I met prior to meeting the super mentioned how much bitterness there was amongst a lot of reserves over the process. It certainly seems prevalent online too.

Besides, anyone who did the interview could tell you how much an advantage being in the reserves would have been.

Copaholic

this is just going around in circles

Rothmans

Copaholic wrote: »

this is just going around in circles

Well to be fair, you're the one bringing it around in circles.

Copaholic

well to be fair, with constructive post like that its no surprise

Rothmans

Copaholic wrote: »

well to be fair, with constructive post like that its no surprise

What's no surprise? This issue has been discussed to death on this forum, and it only brings about alot of bitterness and disharmony on the forum. No good can come of constantly resurrecting the issue.

Copaholic

perhaps some in truth in that.

wannabegard

Guys i dont mean to be an asshole or anything but in reality is there really much point in us discussing this issue on this forum. Instead i really think that if we all got together and started to put a bit of pressure on the minister there might actually be a chance of this happening. Talking about it on a forum will do no good....thats just my opinion by the way....

Copaholic

Wannabegard

---

your spot on.
The discussion on this thread has teased out all the issues relating to the topic. There is a significant consensus that an internal recruitment for reserves to trainees is deserved and obvious.

This should be one of the main if not the main focus that reserves should be seeking going forward.

As I said earlier in this thread things wont happen on their own and the next move should be for Reserves to get organised nationally behind this focus and apply pressure politically.

With an election coming up in less than 2 years time there no better time than now to start pushing for this internal recruitment for reserves to become a reality

wannabegard

As far as i know the top brass are having a meeting with the reserves all around the country in the next couple of months. In my jurisdiction it will be next week. I think that every reserve who is on this forum should attend their own divisional meeting and get every reserve who isnt on it to go aswell. This is our oppurtunity to speak out. I myself am tired of not being able to do anything in my own station. Its not that i dont want to contribute it that the unit i am with...well all i can do really is follow them around. Theres nothing i can do and there nothing they can do so for those reasons i dont go into them anymore. For those reasons i put in for a transfer but that was 6 months ago. To be honest copaholic i am considering leaving if i will be able to secure perment employment. I love going out on the beat, responding to calls and all that but i have been extremely unlucky in the station that i have been put into.

Since there are no opportunities for full time police work with the Garda i have put my name in for the PSNI and hopefully i will get through and be able to join the gards in a few years. I have also a fitness test for the army next week and am applying for the civil service. I hold no bitterness toward the gardai but i need to move on and start a career.

in summary GO TO THE FU$$ING MEETINGS!!!!!

wannabegard

Also, as a garda reserve with over 4 years experience, a law degree, and a masters i feel that at least reserves should be let out in 2s to do minor duties such as beat work etc. The GR is nearly 10 years old. Look at the special constables or the PCSOS in the UK. Specials have full powers and can go outt on their own, make arrests drive cars etc (not that im saying we should be let drive the squad cars), PSCOs are really for show but there out and about on their own. As has been said. There are manpower shortages in the full time force. We need to prove to the Commissionor that we mean business and will not take this shte anymore. I dont know about anyone else but i am sick and tired of arriving on at the station, on a public holiday, when i could easily be on the piss with my friends, or with herself and just sitting around waiting to go out.
Now they are not all bad and sometime the sgts are under pressure i understand that. And whenever i get a call to do a duty i stop what im doing and am in like a flash of lightning but the gards in there do not take us seriously. I feel like it dosent matter how many first aid courses i take, how many self defence classes i take, the amount of time i spend in the gym trying to get a bit bigger and stronger (cause im quite skinny) if i dont feel that i can contribute to the Garda work then why in the name of god would i go into them????

Copaholic

I can understand your position and the chances are that scenarios like yours are replicated all around the country. while the way things have turned out is very disheartening I would encourage to hang in there as long as you can but also as long as is practically possible as people cant hang around in hope for ever.

Im not aware in what context these meeting are being held but I hope that these are meetings with a purpose and goal and not top brass just holding meetings for the sake of it----which goes on all the time ai all walks of life.

This is the one chance that reserves need to get together and show solidarity and yes definitely attend these meetings. however don't just turn up-as ye must have your homework done and don't take no for an answer and more importantly don't accept putting things on the long finger.

Plans regarding how an internal recruitment for reserves needs to be acted on immediately and not allowed to drag out (buying time).

AGS need to be supportive of the reserves as after all the reserves are members of AGS .

you are correct with getting on with your life and best of luck with PSNI and elsewhere

wannabegard

Do you want me to pm you the details of those meetings?

Copaholic

yes if you have the details.

wannabegard

did u get it i think i sent it there

Copaholic

good man, yes I got it, Ive have a read now thanks

Copaholic

Is this the first time that this kind of "seminars" has been held.

wannabegard

I think so

Copaholic

Well its a start at least but it would want to be followed up on and make something of it and not just top brass making it look like they are listening to reserve issues.

top brass shouldn't just be coming to listen but should have some kind of idea or plan as they know what issues will be spoken about and should be able to give some answers on the night.

As far as im concerned the main issue should be a proper internal recruitment competition path for reserves to be trainees and not get side tracked by smaller issues

Copaholic

also in such an internal recruitment campaign for reserves the age limit of 35 needs to be increased

hopeful8

The amount of bitterness from people here is pathetic, they picked the candidates they saw best fit, move on.

wannabegard

hopeful that is not the issue. the issue is that reserves as it stands at the moment are essentially dead weight. s. As im sure you know yourself when we head into the station we are basically just told to wait around for a garda to take us out. I dont know about you but that has to change.

A lot of lads who put in the time and effort into the reserves, including myself, who have proved to be more than able to do the job did not get a look in to fulltime recruitment because of those aptitude tests. As a reserve i have come across a lot of dangerous situations, i have come across things that will stay with me for the rest of my life. I get on well with the majority of gards. But because i did not do well in an aptitude test am i automatically not suited to do a job?
Of course well done to all the people who got through they all deserve it and best of luck to them.