Internal competition for Reserves

Hank26

I fully respect the reserves for the time and effort they have given to AGS and would, in theory, approve some internal competition to assist them in becoming full time members (don't agree with raising the age limit tho). But I really do believe that the reserves had a huge advantage coming into this campaign.

There was a job simulation exam in stage 1 & 3
Report writing in stage 3
The interview

The reserves would have had exposure and procedural knowledge to assist them in all of the above. Also, now don't quote me on this, I heard some reserves were getting in house training on doing similar aptitude tests.

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck for the future and hope you can become an organised body for achieving your goals.

Copaholic

It would be advisable and beneficial that reserves get organised and meet if possible prior to the seminars mentioned last night. This would allow them to prioritise what they want from the top brass and the commissioner . these priorities should be formally written down and handed to the top brass at each of these meetings. this sends a clear message that the reserves are organised and know exactly what they want. In addition a reserve representative should be with top brass when they report back and meet with commisioner

wannabegard

Agreed

Copaholic

One worrying issue is that bearing in mind there are 1200 reserves but only a hand full involved in this thread.
Perhaps there a few more out there watching the thread but better if more participated as adds to the momentum.
carpe diam---this is the time so make the most of it

Blaireness

I swear this thread just annoys me at times.

Why on earth should reserves who failed sections of the tests be more eligible to join? Plenty of people who are well suited for the role as Garda wouldn't apply for the reserves.

I also find it incredibly irritating when people whinge about not being good at aptitude tests. They're a pretty good indicator for suitability and intelligence for this kind of campaign, where there was going to be incredible interest in applying. They had to be cruel with how they cut down numbers, there were very few other feasible options for how to cut down the group to the selection of candidates they'd offer the job to.

Copaholic

Do you mind me asking why you say"Plenty of people who are well suited for the role as Garda wouldn't apply for the reserves. "

Blaireness

I know from talking to some people that they'd rather spend there time on other things and apply for the full role instead when it became available. Personally, I never applied for the role of a reserve despite always having a grá for becoming a member of AGS.

mfergus

Copaholic wrote: »

Do you mind me asking why you say"Plenty of people who are well suited for the role as Garda wouldn't apply for the reserves. "

I know you're not asking me but..


prison officers, pdf, rdf, people who were or had been living abroad....etc. lots of people can't.

Copaholic

not really answering the question

That same excuse is appearing again ---- "they'd rather spend there time on other things"

possibly reserves have shown more commitment to joining as they are very interested in the work let alone the fact they don't get paid.

Copaholic

I understand that some people cant ---that makes sence but not the "they'd rather spend there time on other things".

ShodenMcClane

Copaholic wrote: »

I understand that some people cant ---that makes sence but not the "they'd rather spend there time on other things".

Did you ever think it might be personal and they don't want to tell the internet?

Blaireness

They could volunteer elsewhere, study, travel. It's all about people's own priorities. I lived abroad and couldn't do it for obvious reasons.

Copaholic

Your absolutely right --its all about priorities

Based on that you really have to admire the reserves

Blaireness

I feel like we're going in circles here.

Anyways, well done to all who are through! The end is near for us finally!:)

Rothmans

Copahlic. Needs must. I read a very good article in the Irish times about voluntary roles today. The gist of the article was that unpaid roles are quite exclusionary to people who don't have the financial means to support their volunteering. For example, people must work, often very demanding jobs. If they don't work, they don't eat. Simple as. In this situation, expecting them to devote time for free over their full time paid role makes no sense. As much as a person might want to join the reserves, there is a clear need to prioritise your actual job, family, friends etc over a part time voluntary role. That is clear as day.
Another example is myself. I could never join in past years due to my eyesight. I couldn't afford laser eye surgery and I didn't have the financial means to do so until I got into full time employment and had the surgery done recently.
What you're suggesting is also exclusionary to people from disadvantaged backgrounds who would be even less likely to have the financial means to support a role in the reserve. The gardai should be trying to prevent further disenfranchisement with people from disadvantaged backgrounds, rather than trying to make things worse.
So basically, what you're suggesting is very unfair and exclusionary to huge chunks of society, not to mention the inequity of stepping over the best performing candidates to appease some reserves who unfortunately didn't make the grade.

Copaholic

Your post is very interesting.

My posts are simply stating that those who have years in the reserve (regardless of what background, disadvantaged or not ) perhaps would be best served by an internal recruitment rater than aptitude tests.

An aptitude test may not be suited to all and may not be the best way of selecting the right candidates. For all it appears here the aptitudes test are in their basic forms methods of putting an order into thousands of applications.

Reserves come from all walks of life and backgrounds so they are themselves a mixed group as so are the non reserves that are in this competition.

As I have said earlier on this thread there appears to be some moving around regarding results on the aptitude test ie a person in the high 100s in one and then in the 1000s after another aptitude test---there appears to be no consistency and consequently is a bit like musical chairs and where you end up when the music stops.

Im not taking away from those who scored well but I am trying to look at this objectively from another view point focusing on reserves and asking has is the current recruitment campaign a fair way of dealing with all.

Aptitude tests are not the bee all and end all.

Blaireness

We all come from all different walks of life and we all had things happening around the time of the aptitude tests. Some of us did well, some didn't. Makes very little difference now.

Let's face it, they had to turn 25,000 into a few hundred recruits. There was no feasible way that everyone would ever have been happy.

Rothmans

Copaholic wrote: »

Im not taking away from those who scored well but I am trying to look at this objectively from another view point focusing on reserves and asking has is the current recruitment campaign a fair way of dealing with all.

Aptitude tests are not the bee all and end all.

It is. And that's what so many reserves who didn't make the cut are so angry about. They expected to walk into Templemore without considering the thought that HR would seek out the best, most suitable candidates they possibly could (i.e. an intense open campaign), rather than doing the simplest (least efficient) option (i.e. recruit reserves only). It was conducted in the most fair and objective way possible. I understand that it's tough, but they can't well take on 25,000 applicants as full timers just to avoid hurting people's feeling (and unfortunately, in many cases crushing their dreams). But it's my dream to become a Garda too, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let anyone take that away from me.
So I do feel sorry for the reserves who didn't make it, but this was always going to be the toughest competition in the history of the state, and I'll make no apologies for doing the best that I could

irishgti

Everybody has opinions but only time will tell who will say and who will go,But I bet whatever few reserves did get through WILL STAY because of on the job experience they received through been IN the reserves and anybody that will deny that is delusional

ShodenMcClane

Copaholic wrote: »

As I have said earlier on this thread there appears to be some moving around regarding results on the aptitude test ie a person in the high 100s in one and then in the 1000s after another aptitude test---there appears to be no consistency and consequently is a bit like musical chairs and where you end up when the music stops.

Dude, the aptitude tests were all different, they were also paired with different tests for the final result at each stage anyway thus changing peoples placing. I'd be worried about anyone getting in that's not able to reason that out by themselves and thinking it was "like musical chairs."

Copaholic

Well its my overall opinion that in general people would not have a problem with an internal recruitment campaign for reserves. There are a few that would not hold that opinion but then again they will always be there.

If an internal recruitment campaign is sought then it will be in the hands of the reserves and their representatives to do their utmost to make it happen. I hope I see it materialise in the near future.

KERSPLAT!

Copaholic wrote: »

Well its my overall opinion that in general people would not have a problem with an internal recruitment campaign for reserves. There are a few that would not hold that opinion but then again they will always be there.

If an internal recruitment campaign is sought then it will be in the hands of the reserves and their representatives to do their utmost to make it happen. I hope I see it materialise in the near future.

Where does that opinion stem from? It seems, at least on boards and from people I've spoken to, most believe that the way it's done now is the best way

Rothmans

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Where does that opinion stem from? It seems, at least on boards and from people I've spoken to, most believe that the way it's done now is the best way

I was thinking the same thing.

Copaholic

people will always be entitled to their opinion

KERSPLAT!

Copaholic wrote: »

people will always be entitled to their opinion

What?

I'm asking what you're basing the opinion on, I'm not saying you shouldn't have one.

Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Copaholic

based on posts on this thread and some people ive also spoken to.

Rothmans

Copaholic wrote: »

based on posts on this thread and some people ive also spoken to.

But the majority opinion on this thread and forum contradicts what you're saying.

Copaholic

Ive had a run through this thread and count up 10 individuals who clearly would be in favour of internal recruitment for reserves while 9 are against the idea.

Consequently this represents a sizeable proportion in favour of the concept and so perhaps it should be pursued.

Theres no proof in this thread that the majority are against an internal recruitment campaign for reserves.

KERSPLAT!

I could always stick up a poll if anyone was interested? I'd be interested myself to see the results

KERSPLAT!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057241344#

Here we go

rocky911

Lads general opinion or not.. yes the current process I think was managed well.. but lets be honest an internal competition would benefit both the reserve and full time job.

If as a reserve you are not able to make the grade internally as it should be stacked towards the applicant then I would question your abilities to be within the forces as a whole.

For general applicants yes the process is a fair measure..but lets be honest guys you have to admit the Reserves were very hard done by. Im NOT in any shape or form saying that they should have been given an easy ride as god knows there is people amongst who shouldn't be giving a shot of the job but got through, lets be honest a piss easy process and this is why the minister had stated with ( I agree with her for once )

For those who had two years service, I do feel that they should have been offered to sit an aptitude test as well as some kind of experience based assessment/essay which is commonly done with other forces in the UK and Europe before awarded any sniff an interview. For example in Norway I believe ( could be another Scandie country, Im not sure ) all those interested in joining the police are required to attend an academy for a year and a half before being allowed apply, I know that's in an ideal world but lets face it guys any other job out there requires experience ie if you are applying for a role today in engineering everything is a minimum of 2/3 years experience.

Rothmans, my man, I have been following the other thread looks like you have been successful and I wish you all the very best in your career and hope you stay safe abd hopefully will cross paths with you some day

I myself did not make the cut due to an absolute horror show at the report writing stage and the irony is that I have dozens done since a been a reserve with out error..haha the irony eh!

Era that's just my two cents...by the way I do appreciate that there are some reserves kicking off over this but nothing was every guaranteed to us that this would get you in the door although it would make sense but this at the end of the day is Ireland :L

And for those soon to be ex "civies" who were successfully, I do appreciate that there are reserves out there kicking off but please do not add to the disappointment by rubbing it in their face when their down and best of luck with it!

Copaholic

Sorry to hear you didn't make the cut this time---perhaps next time

wannabegard

Can we be realistic though. Do you really think that there will be internal recruitment in the near future? It might happen 10 years down the line but the first thing we have to do is get the reserves to become a functioning, efficent body who can operate alongside gardaí with the same powers and similer responsabilities. That should be the main objective at the moment. It might be too late for us but for any future reserves out there.

Copaholic

If there is to be an internal recruitment then it has to start some time--no time like the present.

Rothmans

rocky911 wrote: »

Rothmans, my man, I have been following the other thread looks like you have been successful and I wish you all the very best in your career and hope you stay safe abd hopefully will cross paths with you some day

Thanks rocky. And best of luck to you too. I'm sure we will cross paths, and we might not even know it :pac:

rocky911

Could never see one unfortunately unless top brass push for it

KERSPLAT!

Mod

Anymore talk of duel accounts, multi-accounts or reregs will be dealt with by way of infractions or even bans. Most of ye know the rules regarding this and it has been pointed out to ye before. Those who didn't know this need to read Boards T&Cs and read the charter because ignorance of the rules is no excuse

Back on topic

Cheers

KERSPLAT!

hopeful8

Copaholic wrote: »

based on posts on this thread and some people ive also spoken to.

There shouldn't be an internal campaign full stop they'd be minimising their chances of getting the best people in. It's not an apprenticeship it's the reserves, get over it!

carzony

hopeful8 wrote: »

There shouldn't be an internal campaign full stop they'd be minimising their chances of getting the best people in. It's not an apprenticeship it's the reserves, get over it!

if internal recruitment only existed then it'd turn literally thousands away from the job. People have lots of other skills, degrees and knowledge to bring to the table.. Just because your prepeared to work for free shouldnt mean you get a place..

I know lots of people who wanna join the guards and would never even consider joining the reserves. Joining the reserves takes an age, they'll never have proper powers and i'd imagine it's very expensive considering they are basicaly volunteering. why not join civil defence, order of malta and show your involved in the community...

pilatus

Yea because everyone in the reserves are delinquents. There should be an internal campaign to seperate the Reserves who are worthy and those who showed up to drink tea. If they are worried about getting the best they'd be getting rid of gaurds in their droves who are lazy and simply couldnt be bothered doing their job. In their spot recruit the reserves who are eager to get on the frontline and pay them to do the job they are doing for nothing at the moment.

"It's not apprentices, its the reserves get over it"

Not once was I asked what my rank was when I landed at a call out, reserve Garda or Garda, they were just dam happy to have someone there. I dont know what your sore about, but the reserves are like it or not growing with years of service and experience and becoming more vital all the time. Recruitment should recognise the trend and award when earned with a job. Full stop, get over it.

Hank26

pilatus wrote: »

There should be an internal campaign to seperate the Reserves who are worthy

But the very best of the reserves IS getting in, in this campaign

thekopend

So in a nutshell there are just a bunch of reserves with a grudge because they didn't quite make the cut. If you are good enough you will make it and if you aren't you won't, reserve or not. Why change what works? To suit a minority, I'm afraid not. Too many people joined the reserves thinking it would be a matter of time before they got into the job and it was thee stepping stone, not what it's about. If you want the job you will have to earn it like the rest, there are reserves that won't and shouldn't become full time members and that is why ye have to do the full 9 yards. Reserves IMO was a classic case of free labour to begin with, there is no job bridge to join the gardai boys and girls.

Santa Cruz

thekopend wrote: »

So in a nutshell there are just a bunch of reserves with a grudge because they didn't quite make the cut. If you are good enough you will make it and if you aren't you won't, reserve or not. Why change what works? To suit a minority, I'm afraid not. Too many people joined the reserves thinking it would be a matter of time before they got into the job and it was thee stepping stone, not what it's about. If you want the job you will have to earn it like the rest, there are reserves that won't and shouldn't become full time members and that is why ye have to do the full 9 yards. Reserves IMO was a classic case of free labour to begin with, there is no job bridge to join the gardai boys and girls.

The general opinion is that the authorities did give the impression that Reserve membership would be an asset when applying for the full time service. I have no doubt that those well recommended Reserves were at an advantage when they got to the interview stage. But many didnt get over the aptitude stage so will never get the chance to "shine" at interview.

You pay your money and take your chances.
p.s. Never trust a politician

almeraguy

What we are trying to debate here is whether or not reserves should be given a separate route in to the job. There are great points from both sides but they are obfuscated by snide remarks and putdowns (again from both sides).

Share your thoughts ideas and opinions but leave the begrudgery, putdowns and insults behind.

I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed.

rocky911

almeraguy wrote: »

What we are trying to debate here is whether or not reserves should be given a separate route in to the job. There are great points from both sides but they are obfuscated by snide remarks and putdowns (again from both sides).

Share your thoughts ideas and opinions but leave the begrudgery, putdowns and insults behind.

I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed.

Took the words out my mouths

Scouser

almeraguy wrote: »

What we are trying to debate here is whether or not reserves should be given a separate route in to the job. There are great points from both sides but they are obfuscated by snide remarks and putdowns (again from both sides).

Share your thoughts ideas and opinions but leave the begrudgery, putdowns and insults behind.

I'm beginning to think this thread should be closed.

I envisage a seperate stream for reserves in the future, just like the Irish stream.

With a certain percentage of the class given solely to the GR, like the Irish stream

Having heard whats is being said at the national seminars, the commish is going to have piles of paper from every corner of the country on the recruitment process. PAS representatives are also hearing this loud and clear

It will change. But what is done is done

Any anyone who will be in the college this summer as a non reserve - your going to see the gap between the groups. Best thing for Blairness and whoever is to learn from thos with experience. It will be of benefit to you massively. The college is a safe enviroment where everything is theory. Wait until you get to your stations! GRs will slide right in. Learn from them

hopeful8

Any anyone who will be in the college this summer as a non reserve - your going to see the gap between the groups. Best thing for Blairness and whoever is to learn from thos with experience. It will be of benefit to you massively. The college is a safe enviroment where everything is theory. Wait until you get to your stations! GRs will slide right in. Learn from them

I'm sure they'll learn more from accomplished instructors who have years of service as active Gardai, that should get them through.

rocky911

hopeful8 wrote: »

Any anyone who will be in the college this summer as a non reserve - your going to see the gap between the groups. Best thing for Blairness and whoever is to learn from thos with experience. It will be of benefit to you massively. The college is a safe enviroment where everything is theory. Wait until you get to your stations! GRs will slide right in. Learn from them

I'm sure they'll learn more from accomplished instructors who have years of service as active Gardai, that should get them through.

Can I ask why your begrudging them ? ye will all be working together and relying on each other. Im sure that GR's will learn off those who come different backgrounds professionally as well, with out a doubt.

Just keep in mind guys that ye are all wearing the one uniform. you will become one there is not point segregating each other because it will reflect negatively on both.

Its just a fact of life that those who may not have experience learn of those who do..

rocky911

rocky911 wrote: »

Can I ask why your begrudging them ? ye will all be working together and relying on each other. Im sure that GR's will learn off those who come different backgrounds professionally as well, with out a doubt.

Just keep in mind guys that ye are all wearing the one uniform. you will become one there is not point segregating each other because it will reflect negatively on both.

Its just a fact of life that those who may not have experience learn of those who do..

And just with regard to instructors in the college.. you will in time realize why many ( not all ) ended up in there.

WilcoOut

hopeful8 wrote: »

Any anyone who will be in the college this summer as a non reserve - your going to see the gap between the groups. Best thing for Blairness and whoever is to learn from thos with experience. It will be of benefit to you massively. The college is a safe enviroment where everything is theory. Wait until you get to your stations! GRs will slide right in. Learn from them

I'm sure they'll learn more from accomplished instructors who have years of service as active Gardai, that should get them through.

Them too , thats implied

but sure your just stating the obvious in order to try nullify an answer

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