Breaking News: People want free houses. Can I have one too?

on_my_oe

I had this same conversation with someone the other day; her argument being if you house all the benefit claimants together, then they have nothing to do all day and get up to 'stuff'. She was giving out as with her allowances etc, she can only afford to live in Corduff D15, which apparently is below her aspirations even if it's within her budget. My argument is, why should I go to work to be taxed heavily so the benefit claimant can live in a nice area while I can only afford a lower area? If they want better, they should work for it, and as for getting up to 'stuff' the only thing they should be doing in General is looking for a job, or gaining skills to get one. There is a small portion of the general population that is genuinely disabled or sick, and no problems - I'm happy to assist them. It's the third generation breeding farms I've got an issue with. Social assistance is a hand up, not a hand out for life.

NipNip

Indeed.

pwurple

10000maniacs wrote: »

1: The occupants of any council house should be means tested every year, and if their circumstances are now above the minimum threshold, they should be given notice to leave.
2: The occupants should NEVER NEVER NEVER be given the option to buy the property at a reduced rate. I have never understood the logic in doing this. it's not the council's property to sell, its the taxpayers.

The logic for this is that people hate to move, especially people with children. By doing things like -earn a fiver more a week and you get turfed out, you create a poverty trap, where people are disincentivised from earning more, because they end up worse off.

Instead, you say, Earn a certain amount more and you can buy this house you already live in at a discount. Make it really easy. The idea is that this encourages working harder, and earning more, and gradually gets people out of poverty.

riclad

People need to have 2 children to be eligible for a house.
Most people on welfare lead boring lives,
i hear many people who work use drugs,
The bankers who damaged the economy were not on welfare.
Giving people non recourse loans,
to buy shares in my bank, to prop up the share price ,i would regard as a crime.
You are giving false information to be public, who bought shares in the bank.
The bank collapse,s people who bought shares in the bank were ripped off.

Many women who know the father choose not to ask him for money,
especially if he is on a low income.
Theres no such thing as a free house, you get a discount on the normal price.

Shakespeare's Sister

Calhoun wrote: »

I would personally be in favour of laws that meant you had to name the father on the birth cert so the likes of a to would have to pay. All I care about is there seems to be a culture of people getting houses when they get a kid, the state shouldn't be enabling bad decision making.

As for the last point you get what you pay for if folk don't like the area , then they need to work to get out of it.

I just mean you'd swear, according to some people, that they all get fantastic houses in lovely areas.

10000maniacs

pwurple wrote: »

The logic for this is that people hate to move, especially people with children. By doing things like -earn a fiver more a week and you get turfed out, you create a poverty trap, where people are disincentivised from earning more, because they end up worse off.

Instead, you say, Earn a certain amount more and you can buy this house you already live in at a discount. Make it really easy. The idea is that this encourages working harder, and earning more, and gradually gets people out of poverty.

All very well if you are a philanthropist and have your own money with which to do this type of thing, or you live in Sherwood Forest or something, but this is money that has been drained from the pockets of mostly low and middle income earners with mortgages they can barely afford.
I say down with this carry on. Its farcical.

conorhal

pwurple wrote: »

The logic for this is that people hate to move, especially people with children. By doing things like -earn a fiver more a week and you get turfed out, you create a poverty trap, where people are disincentivised from earning more, because they end up worse off.

Instead, you say, Earn a certain amount more and you can buy this house you already live in at a discount. Make it really easy. The idea is that this encourages working harder, and earning more, and gradually gets people out of poverty.

There is a reasonable logic to this, only however if you're building further housing stock, otherwise you're just creating an ever deminishing pool of social housing that will ....actually ALREADY has led to the situaton we have today, a chronic shortage of social housing.
Social housing shoud not be offered for sale at a discount price, it should be offered at market value and there should be no cap on assessed rent. There are some people in social housing who may be paing the top scale of rent but earning quite a bit of cash. In such cases the cap on rent in social housing acts as a disencentive to move on into the private rental market, because who doesn't want subsidised rent? This such tenants become 'bed blockers' so to speak.

No Pants

Calhoun wrote: »

All I care about is there seems to be a culture of people getting houses when they get a kid, the state shouldn't be enabling bad decision making.

What bad decision making? They got the ride and a house. Throw in a Ford Focus and it's like they were a contestant on a rather good, late-night gameshow.

Calhoun

No Pants wrote: »

What bad decision making? They got the ride and a house. Throw in a Ford Focus and it's like they were a contestant on a rather good, late-night gameshow.

Tip my hat to you sir lol

Gatling

The current CC stockapply rediculous ,

We cant apply for certain 2 bed apartments because there only suitable for one adult and one child ,
Or what comes up regularly too 2 bed apartments only suitable for 3 adults ,
So we know we won't get a house nor do we expect one ,but when the deck is stacked in such a way that you can't even apply for the properties your supposed entitled too

riclad

Sounds like you are in a catch 22,
you might only be able to get a house,
Theres more apartments avaidable in many area,s since many council houses have
been sold to ex tenants.

I,,dont understand 3 adults= 2bed apartments clause,
my friend with 1 child got a 2bed apartment 2 years ago.
Her boyfriend lives in his own non council house.

She was on the housing list for 7 years.

Biffo The Bare

Gatling wrote: »

The current CC stockapply rediculous ,

We cant apply for certain 2 bed apartments because there only suitable for one adult and one child ,
Or what comes up regularly too 2 bed apartments only suitable for 3 adults ,
So we know we won't get a house nor do we expect one ,but when the deck is stacked in such a way that you can't even apply for the properties your supposed entitled too

This is the thing that irks a lot of hard working people in this country.
"I want this" ,
"I don't want that."
"The stairs is too steep"
Take what you are given. You are lucky to be getting it.
While you are in your council apartment or whatever, do a little jig like you have won the lotto, and then when your excitement has died down at getting this leg up from the overstretched taxpayer, start saving for your own property.
When you are back on your feet, move out and let somebody more needy live there.
Jeez if it was only that simple.:mad:

riclad

Or what comes up regularly too , 2 bed apartments only suitable for 3 adults ,

quote;



I presume you mean 2 adults , man ,woman,
in a relationship.
With 1 child.

I know a man, single , age 50 ,no children, got a council house outside dublin.
5 years ago.
Drodheda, i dont know how many bedrooms it has.

i,ve never heard of 3 single adults , all applying to live in the same apartment
from the council.

bidiots

Are you typing off an etch-a-sketch?

donutheadhomer

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Its ingrained though. There parents probably have social housing. Their friends parents the same. Dont forget the councils created vaste estates of social housing once upon a time. Its hard to change peoples mindsets. Plus some people are just poor and could never afford a morgage. Others are poor because they HAVE a morgage. Everyone is fooked really

some people have owned property previously and fallen in arrears and now can’t own due to poor credit history

donutheadhomer

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

All indigent housing in this country (provided by either council or voluntary-association) comes with a rental charge. But no deposit, and not necessarily one-month-in-advance.

For most of it, the rent is income related. As a very broad brush, about 25% of the adult occupants income (mmm, maybe that's nett income), subject to an upper limit. For every poor people, it can be an even lower rate.

There are a few cases (mainly? only?) with the voluntary associations where the rent is market related. People on benefits can get rent-allowance for these ones, but there's no help for low income workers.




Someone asked why houses are boarded up instead of being rented out. The short answer is that it costs quite a bit to bring a house up to the private-sector rental standard: fittings, floors, curtains, appliances, furniture, etc. Bringing it up to council standards is cheaper (flooring not required!) - but the councils don't have cash to buy (even partially-completed) houses at the moment.

From City Council Website

Calculation of Rent
The rents of dwellings let on differential rent will be calculated as follows:

(A) Principal Earner
13.5% of the first €275 of the principal earner’s income plus 19% of any additional income.

(B) Child Allowances
Allowances will be made for dependant children on the basis of €10.00 per week for each dependant child of 17 years or under, or who being under 21, is attending a full-time course of education and is wholly or mainly maintained by the principal earner.

(C) Subsidiary Earners

Subsidiary Earners will be required to pay a contribution of one seventh of their income to a maximum of €20.00

donutheadhomer

Kate!!! wrote: »

Free housing is a joke so is handing someone 200 euro a week in social welfare payments ! No one should get anything for free if you need the dole because you are out of work I think you should be made to work doing community service Monday - Friday 9-5 . It's only fair unless of course you attend a training course/interviews etc

Plus people may gain skills on community service to help them get back into employment.

I believe there should only be payments to help those that work but are in low paid jobs and need some support . Not those that are on social welfare payments for years .

I know there are genuine cases of people losing their jobs and prehaps the community service should kick in after a certain period of time or mandatory retraining/courses.

Whats annoys me even more are those single mothers with every flipping social welfare payments under the sun driving new cars and going on a sun holiday once a year at least and have their boyfriend live with them but pretending they are not. They will never declare the boyfriend as living in the house or they lose money.

No wonder our country is f*cked !!!

The social welfare system needs some major reform and tight regulation !!!

why only Monday to Friday? Why do they need the weekends off too?

ivyQ

donutheadhomer wrote: »

why only Monday to Friday? Why do they need the weekends off too?

Whos going to mind their kids ?

No Pants

Kate!!! wrote: »

Whats annoys me even more are those single mothers with every flipping social welfare payments under the sun driving new cars and going on a sun holiday once a year at least and have their boyfriend live with them but pretending they are not. They will never declare the boyfriend as living in the house or they lose money.

What did Social Welfare say when you reported these single mothers?

donutheadhomer

ivyQ wrote: »

Whos going to mind their kids ?

who minds the kids of workers who work weekends?

ivyQ

donutheadhomer wrote: »

who minds the kids of workers who work weekends?

They have jobs ...and a wage to contribute to childcare , or may even have family there to help out ....not everybody is that lucky to have a job or family so they have no choice but to claim benefits until they do find work ,

According to you such people should loose all support while their down on their luck trien their hardest to get off benefits ...NOT ALL social welfare claimants are lay abouts and its unfair for people to make such sweeping generalizations just beacause there ARE people who abuse the system .

I cant take this tread any more its just infuriating to read some of the comments ,its pure .....

fascism
ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m,-sɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; More
antonyms: democracy, liberalism
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.
"this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
Origin

:mad:

No Pants

donutheadhomer wrote: »

why only Monday to Friday? Why do they need the weekends off too?

Dole only pays Monday to Saturday. No idea about any other payments.

donutheadhomer

ivyQ wrote: »

They have jobs ...and a wage to contribute to childcare , or may even have family there to help out ....not everybody is that lucky to have a job or family so they have no choice but to claim benefits until they do find work ,

According to you such people should loose all support while their down on their luck trien their hardest to get off benefits ...NOT ALL social welfare claimants are lay abouts and its unfair for people to make such sweeping generalizations just beacause there ARE people who abuse the system .

I cant take this tread any more its just infuriating to read some of the comments ,its pure .....

fascism
ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m,-sɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; More
antonyms: democracy, liberalism
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.
"this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
Origin

:mad:

there are very few if any childcare facilities open at weekends/nights. Anyway - most people I know that live in social houses have large extended families and surely members of this extended family could mind their kids. I say most and not all now here there are always exceptions to this of course but most should be able to do community work FOC.

Biffo The Bare

ivyQ wrote: »

They have jobs ...and a wage to contribute to childcare , or may even have family there to help out ....not everybody is that lucky to have a job or family so they have no choice but to claim benefits until they do find work ,

According to you such people should loose all support while their down on their luck trien their hardest to get off benefits ...NOT ALL social welfare claimants are lay abouts and its unfair for people to make such sweeping generalizations just beacause there ARE people who abuse the system .

I cant take this tread any more its just infuriating to read some of the comments ,its pure .....

fascism
ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m,-sɪz(ə)m/Submit
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; More
antonyms: democracy, liberalism
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.
"this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
Origin

:mad:

While I agree there is a silent revolution going on in this state because middle Ireland are pi$$ed to hell at what has happened in the last 6 years, I think calling them fascist is a bit heavy.
Middle Ireland are tired of carrying the can for huge social housing, social welfare and healthcare bills in this state. The entitlement culture in this country has to come to an end. It will come to an end.

donutheadhomer

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

While I agree there is a silent revolution going on in this state because middle Ireland are pi$$ed to hell at what has happened in the last 6 years, I think calling them fascist is a bit heavy.
Middle Ireland are tired of carrying the can for huge social housing, social welfare and healthcare bills in this state. The entitlement culture in this country has to come to an end. It will come to an end.

here here. An end to payments based around the number of kids one has or housing based solely on the number of kids one breeds. PAYE workers don’t have the ability to claim allowances based on the number of kids they have.

ivyQ

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

While I agree there is a silent revolution going on in this state because middle Ireland are pi$$ed to hell at what has happened in the last 6 years, I think calling them fascist is a bit heavy.
Middle Ireland are tired of carrying the can for huge social housing, social welfare and healthcare bills in this state. The entitlement culture in this country has to come to an end. It will come to an end.

Middle Ireland should stop bullying the poor and least well off in country ...grow some backbone and bring those responsible for this country's hardship to justice , while they whinge and moan about the injustice of social housing , benefits , healthcare they still line the politicians fat pockets and hand their hard earned money over to the fat cats at the top ...

It will come to end ?How ? Yeah why dont we just re-open the Workhouses and Magdeline laundries ...thatl teach em !!!

donutheadhomer

ivyQ wrote: »

Middle Ireland should stop bullying the poor and least well off in country ...grow some backbone and bring those responsible for this country's hardship to justice , while they whinge and moan about the injustice of social housing , benefits , healthcare they still line the politicians fat pockets and hand their hard earned money over to the fat cats at the top ...

It will come to end ?How ? Yeah why dont we just re-open the Workhouses and Magdeline laundries ...thatl teach em !!!

there is a big difference between being poor and making a lifestyle choice to be poor. Society should not encourage people to make lifestyle choice to be poor.

One can’t blame the government for all society’s woes either - there are generations of people in Ireland that choose to live in very poor situations and this has been going on long before the current financial situation and much longer that this government has been in power: probably longer than this state has even existed I suppose and that is what needs to end.

ivyQ

https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/how-much-do-irish-politicians-get-paid-part-1-of-2/

OwaynOTT

Todd Toddington III wrote: »

Its ingrained though. There parents probably have social housing. Their friends parents the same. Dont forget the councils created vaste estates of social housing once upon a time. Its hard to change peoples mindsets. Plus some people are just poor and could never afford a morgage. Others are poor because they HAVE a morgage. Everyone is fooked really

Yep that's it all right, it's all those in social houses fault.

donutheadhomer

ivyQ wrote: »

https://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/02/18/how-much-do-irish-politicians-get-paid-part-1-of-2/

paying politicians less is not going to make people get out of bed to be more productive: I doubt if most of these people care what politicians get paid aslong as their welfare payment is in the post office on time or the state provide a subsidised roof over their heads