Pregnant woman assaulted by carjacker

No Pants

jiminho wrote: »

I can't think of anything scarier for a pregnant woman in Ireland than what she went thru

You must have a poor imagination.

jiminho

Wibbs wrote: »

Compared to many other dodgy areas of quite a few major cities in Europe it's really not. Crime wise we're actually one of the safest around. The main difference I've noticed is that in Dublin the scum seem to be allowed free roam in otherwise "nice areas" and tourist areas.

In other major cities I've been in I noticed that the local cops tended to crack down on that. The scum were more localised to their own areas and if you avoided known dodgy spots you were generally alright. Here you're as or more likely to be assaulted on the main street of the capital of the country.

Crimes against property seem to be more cracked down upon too. Here the usual response is often "oh you're insured aren't you" if stuff gets stolen.

I agree with you but I don't like comparing Dublin to say Paris or Amsterdam. Call it old age but I've learn't to appreciate the size of Dublin. No skyscrapers or huge monorails taking up the city centre. I don't want Dublin to turn in to a large metropolis where I should "avoid certain areas". But when it comes to junkies, I go by the logic out of sight, out of mind. It would be better for them if they had somewhere to stay, get food, clean up and if required, get some education into them so they're not roaming the streets like they currently are. Provided this super-rehab isn't in the heart of the city. I can't stand going to places like New York and Vancouver and seeing a homeless shelter/aid clinic/rehab in the middle of the city, it's a bloody eye sore.

As for scumbags..........castration is the only word that comes to mind

flas

Holsten wrote: »

What's wrong with this?

Option 1: Sit leaving cert, possibility of changing his life around and not commit further crimes.

Option 2: No chance to improve, locked away for a few years, gets out with nothing to live for, stabs someone while robbing them for money.

I'd rather option 1, at least it tries to make a change.

Or imprision him and make him sit his leaving in there!

rubberdiddies

Wibbs wrote: »

Crime wise we're actually one of the safest around

I don't believe our crime figures reflect the true level of crime in the city.

A friend of mine owns a shop in the city and catches people stealing several times a week. He stopped calling the guards years ago as nothing ever came of it. The one or two occasions it went to court he had to take a day out of the shop to attend court. Not realistic when running your own business.

Nowadays he just bars the thieves and makes them pay for the item when he can.

I believe this is replicated across many small retailers

EyeSight

Holsten wrote: »

This is what I mean by denying the problem.

The thing is Dublin IS THAT BAD!

And that's why things will never change! People ignore the obvious problems and say "Sure it's worse somewhere else" - Who cares about other places? Why don't we strive to improve regardless?

mrsbyrne

I live in a moderately sized provincial town and there are small groups of skangers floating around all day. They're more bad mannered and inconsiderate then threatening but older people are very afraid of them. Its a pity to see healthy young people wandering about with nothing to do.

Snake

eviltwin wrote: »

The poster was worried about taking his partner to Dublin Zoo? Really? You'd be more likely to end up attacked by an over excited 5 yr old than a drug addict.

And like I said I'm not worried about the zoo, I'm worried about the walk through the city and the buses.

Snake

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I live in a moderately sized provincial town and there are small groups of skangers floating around all day. They're more bad mannered and inconsiderate then threatening but older people are very afraid of them. Its a pity to see healthy young people wandering about with nothing to do.

Nothing to do? My bollox. The little bastards would rather be causing hassle

PND

Poor woman Disgusting that what should've been a lovely Georgian Square in the city centre has instead been allowed to become a horrible ghetto of a place.

jiminho

It's the society class extremes that are all alright.

Lower Class - Steel something, beat someone etc: Suspended sentence, sure they had a hard upbringing all the while the government will give them free accommodation and pay for every facet of their lives essentially.

Upper Class - Bankrupt the country, financial crimes etc: Slap on the wrist and sure in a few years, we'll let them do it again and the wheel goes round and round.

Middle Class - Didn't pay tv license or some other menial thing: Jail or fined. Government demands more taxes. The graduates, younger families and generally people who are just trying to get by by doing the right thing (i.e. getting educated and working hard) are the ones who get their arses f**ked.

I don't think I'd even classify it as above, I'd go with:

Slackers, Lower Class and Upper Class. The slackers and lower class are on a relatively even playing field whereas there's a disparity between the lower class and upper class.

Holsten

Pat Custard wrote: »

I'm absolutely speechless as to how this can happen. There needs to be harsher punishment and we need to implement it NOW.

Why is it that a scummer can get a suspended sentence after beating an old lady to a pulp to rob her purse and then the same old woman gets jail time for not being able to afford to pay for her water / sparks / telly after being robbed (which incidentally, the junkie would get for free)

Yes something needs to be done, but harsher punishments are not the answer. It's not that easy to fix this mess.

mickydoomsux

Holsten wrote: »

...harsher punishments are not the answer.

If these pieces of human garbage spent more time locked up then they would be physically unable to do this stuff as often as they now do.

mickydoomsux

mickydoomsux wrote: »

If these pieces of human garbage spent more time locked up then they would be physically unable to do this stuff as often as they now do.

Well, you have to get at the root cause of this stuff to make a lasting impression and reverse it. Locking people up is a good solution, but its a short term one.

Social and educational deprivation is a common thread amongst many of the worst offenders, one of the worst indicators being poor parenting. If someones parents are alcoholic and/or addicts who never teach them right from wrong or sneer at any kind of effort to do well in school, who by their deeds promote a chaotic lifestyle as the norm, who might be abusive or neglectful, it's easy to see why someone vulnerable to the cumulative effects of all that negative existence would be without the means to feel responsiblity or empathy or shame.

Tackling those obstacles take money, political will, and an ability to withstand accusations of making life 'cushy' for the undeserving by providing social supports. You can't have it every way.

mickydoomsux

Candie wrote: »

Well, you have to get at the root cause of this stuff to make a lasting impression and reverse it. Locking people up is a good solution, but its a short term one.

Social and educational deprivation is a common thread amongst many of the worst offenders, one of the worst indicators being poor parenting. If someones parents are alcoholic and/or addicts who never teach them right from wrong or sneer at any kind of effort to do well in school, who by their deeds promote a chaotic lifestyle as the norm, who might be abusive or neglectful, it's easy to see why someone vulnerable to the cumulative effects of all that negative existence would be without the means to feel responsiblity or empathy or shame.

Tackling those obstacles take money, political will, and an ability to withstand accusations of making life 'cushy' for the undeserving by providing social supports. You can't have it every way.

Getting sick of this mentality.

We've been trying the softly-softly ****e for years and it isn't working. Towns and cities around the country are just getting scummier.

Isolt

That's so scary, I am five months pregnant and already feel such an instinct to protect my baby. Watching what I eat, what I drink, not taking painkillers if I'm sick etc. Can't imagine some dirtbag coming along and threatening the life of my baby like that.

I sincerely hope this guy is dealt with very, very harshly by the law. So glad to hear that mama and baby are doing well.

mickydoomsux

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Getting sick of this mentality.

We've been trying the softly-softly ****e for years and it isn't working. Towns and cities around the country are just getting scummier.

No, not to the extent that it needs to be done to make a difference. Prevention takes time and resources, otherwise all we can do as a society is resign ourselves to mopping up after the fact.

eviltwin

Candie wrote: »

No, not to the extent that it needs to be done to make a difference. Prevention takes time and resources, otherwise all we can do as a society is resign ourselves to mopping up after the fact.

Thats the nail on the head Candie, money. What party is going to put money into resources to help families where we won't see the benefit for 15 - 20 yrs? It is the way to do things however we can pretty much write the current generation of lowlifes off as a lost cause so it has to be done in conjunction with proper sentencing, not this revolving door we have at the moment.

I'd bring back chain gangs or bootcamp style detention for scum like this.

Holsten

mickydoomsux wrote: »

If these pieces of human garbage spent more time locked up then they would be physically unable to do this stuff as often as they now do.

But that's just locking away the problem... it's not really dealing with it, thus not really stopping it... it will be an endless cycle with more people becoming victims in the long run.

eviltwin

eviltwin wrote: »

I'd bring back chain gangs or bootcamp style detention for scum like this.

Decent sentencing is a start, and free, comprehensive, well-funded drug rehab and maintenance programs. The problem is though, when they leave prison/rehab, they go straight back into the environment and culture that fostered the addiction that led to the crime, and so starts the next generation.

EyeSight

Candie wrote: »

No, not to the extent that it needs to be done to make a difference. Prevention takes time and resources, otherwise all we can do as a society is resign ourselves to mopping up after the fact.

Look, I agree to an extent, but some people cannot be helped. No matter how much rehabilitation and assistance we give, there's always going to be people who take the piss.
Take the junkies, there are treatments available in the city, they get free transport and pretty much they get ignored by the guards. The treatment is very accessible, it may not be the best, but for someone who really wants to kick the habit, it's a help
The groups of knackers who roam the streets causing trouble, they will only respond to punishments. Their parents presumably get government assistance, which is again is not great, but it's enough. It's rare for these kinds to steal to feed their family - They steal for selfish reasons

Both groups need help but they also need punishment. There needs to be a good reason why they should not commit crime! Otherwise they have absolutely nothing to lose by committing a crime! Especially the scumbags who get a badge of honor for committing any crime.
I would like to see harsh(or any) community service given out a lot more. It would be much better than suspended sentences. It may be a huge failure, but lets try it rather than just turning the same blind eye

EyeSight

EyeSight wrote: »

Both groups need help but they also need punishment. There needs to be a good reason why they should not commit crime! Otherwise they have absolutely nothing to lose by committing a crime! Especially the scumbags who get a badge of honor for committing any crime.
I would like to see harsh(or any) community service given out a lot more. It would be much better than suspended sentences. It may be a huge failure, but lets try it rather than just turning the same blind eye

Just to be very, very clear, I didn't advocate not punishing criminals, or turning a blind eye to anything.

Advocating postive long term action doesn't equal allowing criminals free reign to do what they want.

mrsbyrne

All our chickens are coming home to roost. Any body working on the front line with disfunctionsl familys could see this

tsunami of antisocial behaviour coming. There was nothing anybody could do because nobody in power would listen. Girls of 16 17 18 were having babies and they had no traditional support structure. Certainly the father's didn't stick around for long, teenage boys often with no dad themselves, midnight feeds and stinking nappies weren't for them so they just moved on to the next willing girl. No consequences . Why not?
So the Government threw money at the girls the more babies the more money and the CWO writing cheques for communion dresses and trampolines and bouncy classes.
And a lot of these girls had no parenting skills. Once the kids started requiring discipline and a proper adult prescience (once they were no longer sitting in the buggy dressed up like dolls) they just left them out into the street to run feral until you end up trying g to throw a pregnant woman out of her car.
Things are getting better. I see it every day but its too late for the literally thousands of young people who havnt a clue what living a decent life even means.

dharma200

mrsbyrne wrote: »

All our chickens are coming home to roost. Any body working on the front line with disfunctionsl familys could see this

tsunami of antisocial behaviour coming. There was nothing anybody could do because nobody in power would listen. Girls of 16 17 18 were having babies and they had no traditional support structure. Certainly the father's didn't stick around for long, teenage boys often with no dad themselves, midnight feeds and stinking nappies weren't for them so they just moved on to the next willing girl. No consequences . Why not?
So the Government threw money at the girls the more babies the more money and the CWO writing cheques for communion dresses and trampolines and bouncy classes.
And a lot of these girls had no parenting skills. Once the kids started requiring discipline and a proper adult prescience (once they were no longer sitting in the buggy dressed up like dolls) they just left them out into the street to run feral until you end up trying g to throw a pregnant woman out of her car.
Things are getting better. I see it every day but its too late for the literally thousands of young people who havnt a clue what living a decent life even means.

Get a grip, you have been reading the catholic times or something.... Ofcourse it's those pesky pregant girls fault, nothing to do with heroin production in Afghanistan, government cartels making millions on the supply chain for heroin, a global problem.... Nope.... It's girls getting pregnant... Sure didn't we have the laundrys to sort that out, we should have kept them and Dublin would be a great place.......

DubVelo

mickydoomsux wrote: »

If these pieces of human garbage spent more time locked up then they would be physically unable to do this stuff as often as they now do.

They'd also have less opportunity to breed.

Mikros

EyeSight wrote: »

Otherwise they have absolutely nothing to lose by committing a crime!

Many of these people have nothing to lose anyway, that is the sad reality. They live from fix to fix and that is the extent of their horizon. Harsher sentencing does nothing to reduce offending or reduce recidivism rates.

The reality is that there are only around 50 in-patient beds for detox for an estimated 20,000 addicts and waiting lists for treatment programs can be over a year in some areas. The addicts get stuck on a methadone programme and left to fend for themselves because the political will and money is not there. In 1996 there was 1,861 people on methadone treatment, that number is around 10,000 now. In fact a lot of funding for homeless and treatment programmes have been cut in recent years.

I'm not defending the crime here, and if someone is a risk to society they should be locked up, but excessive focus on the individual ignores the circumstances that give rise to these problems. At the moment the whole system is a revolving door with no long term strategy to tackle what is ultimately a societal problem. There are no votes in that though!

Carry on with the After Hours solutions to "human pieces of garbage" though...

DubVelo

Candie wrote: »

Well, you have to get at the root cause of this stuff to make a lasting impression and reverse it. Locking people up is a good solution, but its a short term one.

Social and educational deprivation is a common thread amongst many of the worst offenders, one of the worst indicators being poor parenting. If someones parents are alcoholic and/or addicts who never teach them right from wrong or sneer at any kind of effort to do well in school, who by their deeds promote a chaotic lifestyle as the norm, who might be abusive or neglectful, it's easy to see why someone vulnerable to the cumulative effects of all that negative existence would be without the means to feel responsiblity or empathy or shame.

Tackling those obstacles take money, political will, and an ability to withstand accusations of making life 'cushy' for the undeserving by providing social supports. You can't have it every way.

The thing with that argument is; there are some really brilliant, nice and hard-working people around who come from really rough and deprived backgrounds and don't have 128 suspended sentences to their name.

Mikros

DubVelo wrote: »

The thing with that argument is; there are some really brilliant, nice and hard-working people around who come from really rough and deprived backgrounds and don't have 128 suspended sentences to their name.

There will always be people who achieve more, those who achieve less and the rest of us muddling along in the middle. The point is that the more barriers you put in someone's way (bad or absent parents, social deprivation, no education, drug abuse etc.) the more people will fall into the negative outcome box. Just because a few escape the trap doesn't change that.

Uriel.

In this country everyone is entitled to child benefit. It's a joke. There is definitely a need to support procreation, we need tomorrow's tax payers etc. But child benefit must be aimed at ensuring the encouragement of increasing tomorrow's tax payers and not tomorrow's scroungers.

Child benefit needs to be administers through income tax credits or such like and not direct payment. It's needs to be seen as an incentivised support for families who can or are close to being able to support a child independently. It cannot continue to be used as a meal ticket for the uncaring parasites.

We have some of the best supports around through social welfare payments, rent allowances, council houses, free public transport and a myriad of ancillary benefits. The state already provides sufficient supports for most.

Leaving aside the huge deficit we run, welfare supports needs to be reduced, with money directed towards policing and the prison system. Corrective justice needs to be used more to compensate injured parties, state benefits including tax credits should be opened up much more to the attachment of court fines etc. And prisoners as well as rehabilitation should have less luxury and be forced to work

mrsbyrne

dharma200 wrote: »

Get a grip, you have been reading the catholic times or something.... Ofcourse it's those pesky pregant girls fault, nothing to do with heroin production in Afghanistan, government cartels making millions on the supply chain for heroin, a global problem.... Nope.... It's girls getting pregnant... Sure didn't we have the laundrys to sort that out, we should have kept them and Dublin would be a great place.......

That's right. Of course. All of these "scumbags" were reared in two parent land and we don't have a problem in this country with dysfunctional families and a total breakdown in society and all our little children now are cherished and impeccably cared for by their parents.
Oh and there's no such thing any more as kids being sexually, physically emotionally and mentally abused because this is the brave new post Catholic Ireland where our kids are hanging themselves from every available tree, and drowning themselves in every river. If your mad at anyone you can stick a knife in them or kick them to death and yosocial worker can tell the Judge that you have issues so that's fine.
Oh and you can stick a blood filled syringe in the face of a pregnant woman and try to throw her out of her car, but hey! Its great here now we've got rid of the Church and we mustn't blame ourselves or listen to people on the front line for years. Its much easier to blame Afghanistan. Bullcrap.

mrsbyrne

mrsbyrne wrote: »

All our chickens are coming home to roost. Any body working on the front line with disfunctionsl familys could see this

tsunami of antisocial behaviour coming. There was nothing anybody could do because nobody in power would listen. Girls of 16 17 18 were having babies and they had no traditional support structure. Certainly the father's didn't stick around for long, teenage boys often with no dad themselves, midnight feeds and stinking nappies weren't for them so they just moved on to the next willing girl. No consequences . Why not?
So the Government threw money at the girls the more babies the more money and the CWO writing cheques for communion dresses and trampolines and bouncy classes.
And a lot of these girls had no parenting skills. Once the kids started requiring discipline and a proper adult prescience (once they were no longer sitting in the buggy dressed up like dolls) they just left them out into the street to run feral until you end up trying g to throw a pregnant woman out of her car.
Things are getting better. I see it every day but its too late for the literally thousands of young people who havnt a clue what living a decent life even means.

I've rarely seen such a simplistic analysis of the cause of social breakdown.

mrsbyrne wrote: »

That's right. Of course. All of these "scumbags" were reared in two parent land and we don't have a problem in this country with dysfunctional families and a total breakdown in society and all our little children now are cherished and impeccably cared for by their parents.
Oh and there's no such thing any more as kids being sexually, physically emotionally and mentally abused because this is the brave new post Catholic Ireland where our kids are hanging themselves from every available tree, and drowning themselves in every river. If your mad at anyone you can stick a knife in them or kick them to death and yosocial worker can tell the Judge that you have issues so that's fine.
Oh and you can stick a blood filled syringe in the face of a pregnant woman and try to throw her out of her car, but hey! Its great here now we've got rid of the Church and we mustn't blame ourselves or listen to people on the front line for years. Its much easier to blame Afghanistan. Bullcrap.

You are confusing causation and correlation.

EyeSight

Mikros wrote: »

Many of these people have nothing to lose anyway, that is the sad reality. They live from fix to fix and that is the extent of their horizon. Harsher sentencing does nothing to reduce offending or reduce recidivism rates.

The reality is that there are only around 50 in-patient beds for detox for an estimated 20,000 addicts and waiting lists for treatment programs can be over a year in some areas. The addicts get stuck on a methadone programme and left to fend for themselves because the political will and money is not there. In 1996 there was 1,861 people on methadone treatment, that number is around 10,000 now. In fact a lot of funding for homeless and treatment programmes have been cut in recent years.

I'm not defending the crime here, and if someone is a risk to society they should be locked up, but excessive focus on the individual ignores the circumstances that give rise to these problems. At the moment the whole system is a revolving door with no long term strategy to tackle what is ultimately a societal problem. There are no votes in that though!

Carry on with the After Hours solutions to "human pieces of garbage" though...

If you read the end of my post i didn't say to lock them all up. I suggested harsh community service. It's a punishment that does not lock anyone up while providing some sort of deterrent

mrsbyrne

Candie wrote: »

I've rarely seen such a simplistic analysis of the cause of social breakdown.



You are confusing causation and correlation.

I never once said that lone parents are solely to blame for this situation. In actual fact I don't blame them at all.people are enabled by the state to carry on living totally unproductive dysfunctional lives until their anti social behaviour impacts on others and Justice becomes involved.

In my working life I encounter many mainly older now lone parents and their offspring who both struggle with
authority figures. I come across very very few dads in the Gardas station, its always mam, if anyone at all. What they
all have in common is terrible misery and discontent. Its this misery and discontent we have to address.

DubVelo

mrsbyrne wrote: »

I never once said that lone parents are solely to blame for this situation. In actual fact I don't blame them at all.people are enabled by the state to carry on living totally unproductive dysfunctional lives until their anti social behaviour impacts on others and Justice becomes involved.

I think the problem is that it still carries on just the same after their anti-social behaviour impacts on others and justice becomes involved.

dharma200

It would seem to me that there ar many many 'simple' analysis theories on society. I would suggest that we all might look a little deeper (past those pesky single mums, past those pesky junkies who are the products of course of single mums lol) and read a little deeper into the situation. I would suggest if you read, Foucault be the place to start, with Discipline and Punish. This is an interesting book which outlines how we have gone from a 'punishment' society, to a 'control' society.. and how the ripple effects of this change, since the much harked back to (lol) victorian times.......
I would also suggest that perhaps people have a wider understanding of the extreme ridiculousness of prohibition and punishment of drug addicts, the hierarchy of power in the supply, production and distribution of drugs globally. Perhaps this might give more than a knee jerk reaction and the locking up of clearly very ill people, to a place where, in many instances, heroin is the first choice of drug... To me, to link the provision of child benefit to as a cause for these problems is just ridiculous. Child benefit is a universal benefit which, whilst there may be a tiny minority who we might deem as 'undeserving' is one of the few things in society that actually safeguard some families against complete and utter destitution. So easy to sit behind a keyboard, or to have some experience in social care and think that we are educated enough to blame money, mothers etc.
These social problems are a huge mix of seriously flawed thinking in our society.... from the media, to the church, tot he guards, to the courts... prohibition, inadequate treatment facilities and blaming the junkie on the street without even a passing glance at the last decade of war in afghanistan, which is still th major supplier of heroin globally... how can a country which has been invaded and under american control STILL be the biggest heroin supplier... you tell me.
Very few people it seems want to get past the daily mail hang the junkie attitude without even a hint of self education on how our society really works. Very few people of course, until their own precious little child who was reared with everything hits difficult or suicide or whatever else, but thats fine.... inner city steo however, sure he was born to be bad, didn't his single mum spend the child benefit on fags and mars bars, letting him ruin wild.... REALLY?????
Having grown up surrounded by heroin addiction it never ceases to amaze me how little those who actually work in the social care dusty, and those who work in enforcement have ZERO clue about the root causes, they always go for the easiest, most tabloid, without taking a look around them, perhaps reading a little about the WORLDWIDE societal issues we face.... instead causing more misery by adopting the completely wrong solutions.
I suggest that pointing the finger to lone parents, while might seem reasonable to someone who works with lone parents, the wider issue is not being addressed. I also suggest bu citing enablement from the state as an issue, I would like to see what type of society we would be living in (try south africa or south america) and the crime rates etc if the state withdrew support for single mothers etc... what next, forced sterilisation, forced adoption into two parent families... well that worked out over the last century didn't it....
This thread has annoyed the bbbbbbb out of me, someone who works in this line of work who obviously hasn't the first clue or hasn't bothered to look slightly deeper into the issues. Im out.....

neckedit

dharma200 wrote: »

It would seem to me that there ar many many 'simple' analysis theories on society. I would suggest that we all might look a little deeper (past those pesky single mums, past those pesky junkies who are the products of course of single mums lol) and read a little deeper into the situation. I would suggest if you read, Foucault be the place to start, with Discipline and Punish. This is an interesting book which outlines how we have gone from a 'punishment' society, to a 'control' society.. and how the ripple effects of this change, since the much harked back to (lol) victorian times.......
I would also suggest that perhaps people have a wider understanding of the extreme ridiculousness of prohibition and punishment of drug addicts, the hierarchy of power in the supply, production and distribution of drugs globally. Perhaps this might give more than a knee jerk reaction and the locking up of clearly very ill people, to a place where, in many instances, heroin is the first choice of drug... To me, to link the provision of child benefit to as a cause for these problems is just ridiculous. Child benefit is a universal benefit which, whilst there may be a tiny minority who we might deem as 'undeserving' is one of the few things in society that actually safeguard some families against complete and utter destitution. So easy to sit behind a keyboard, or to have some experience in social care and think that we are educated enough to blame money, mothers etc.
These social problems are a huge mix of seriously flawed thinking in our society.... from the media, to the church, tot he guards, to the courts... prohibition, inadequate treatment facilities and blaming the junkie on the street without even a passing glance at the last decade of war in afghanistan, which is still th major supplier of heroin globally... how can a country which has been invaded and under american control STILL be the biggest heroin supplier... you tell me.
Very few people it seems want to get past the daily mail hang the junkie attitude without even a hint of self education on how our society really works. Very few people of course, until their own precious little child who was reared with everything hits difficult or suicide or whatever else, but thats fine.... inner city steo however, sure he was born to be bad, didn't his single mum spend the child benefit on fags and mars bars, letting him ruin wild.... REALLY?????
Having grown up surrounded by heroin addiction it never ceases to amaze me how little those who actually work in the social care dusty, and those who work in enforcement have ZERO clue about the root causes, they always go for the easiest, most tabloid, without taking a look around them, perhaps reading a little about the WORLDWIDE societal issues we face.... instead causing more misery by adopting the completely wrong solutions.
I suggest that pointing the finger to lone parents, while might seem reasonable to someone who works with lone parents, the wider issue is not being addressed. I also suggest bu citing enablement from the state as an issue, I would like to see what type of society we would be living in (try south africa or south america) and the crime rates etc if the state withdrew support for single mothers etc... what next, forced sterilisation, forced adoption into two parent families... well that worked out over the last century didn't it....
This thread has annoyed the bbbbbbb out of me, someone who works in this line of work who obviously hasn't the first clue or hasn't bothered to look slightly deeper into the issues. Im out.....

To be honest, I am not intelligent nor educated in the global poloitical scene to make an in depth reply to your post, but people are sick to the back teeth of not feeling safe to walk the streets of the capital city of our very small nation, and we are not thalking exclusively at night, we are talking daytime hours when we try to carry out our normal everyday lives, we cannot afford the time nor the resources to trace this problem back to its roots, i.e. the source of Drugs, We need to remember not all Junkies are scumbags, and more importantly not all scumbags are Junkies, But hey I'm so sorry this thread has annoyed you, and I| am sure the couple and thier unborn child are devasted to hear this news .

mrsbyrne

dharma200 wrote: »

It would seem to me that there ar many many 'simple' analysis theories on society. I would suggest that we all might look a little deeper (past those pesky single mums, past those pesky junkies who are the products of course of single mums lol) and read a little deeper into the situation. I would suggest if you read, Foucault be the place to start, with Discipline and Punish. This is an interesting book which outlines how we have gone from a 'punishment' society, to a 'control' society.. and how the ripple effects of this change, since the much harked back to (lol) victorian times.......
I would also suggest that perhaps people have a wider understanding of the extreme ridiculousness of prohibition and punishment of drug addicts, the hierarchy of power in the supply, production and distribution of drugs globally. Perhaps this might give more than a knee jerk reaction and the locking up of clearly very ill people, to a place where, in many instances, heroin is the first choice of drug... To me, to link the provision of child benefit to as a cause for these problems is just ridiculous. Child benefit is a universal benefit which, whilst there may be a tiny minority who we might deem as 'undeserving' is one of the few things in society that actually safeguard some families against complete and utter destitution. So easy to sit behind a keyboard, or to have some experience in social care and think that we are educated enough to blame money, mothers etc.
These social problems are a huge mix of seriously flawed thinking in our society.... from the media, to the church, tot he guards, to the courts... prohibition, inadequate treatment facilities and blaming the junkie on the street without even a passing glance at the last decade of war in afghanistan, which is still th major supplier of heroin globally... how can a country which has been invaded and under american control STILL be the biggest heroin supplier... you tell me.
Very few people it seems want to get past the daily mail hang the junkie attitude without even a hint of self education on how our society really works. Very few people of course, until their own precious little child who was reared with everything hits difficult or suicide or whatever else, but thats fine.... inner city steo however, sure he was born to be bad, didn't his single mum spend the child benefit on fags and mars bars, letting him ruin wild.... REALLY?????
Having grown up surrounded by heroin addiction it never ceases to amaze me how little those who actually work in the social care dusty, and those who work in enforcement have ZERO clue about the root causes, they always go for the easiest, most tabloid, without taking a look around them, perhaps reading a little about the WORLDWIDE societal issues we face.... instead causing more misery by adopting the completely wrong solutions.
I suggest that pointing the finger to lone parents, while might seem reasonable to someone who works with lone parents, the wider issue is not being addressed. I also suggest bu citing enablement from the state as an issue, I would like to see what type of society we would be living in (try south africa or south america) and the crime rates etc if the state withdrew support for single mothers etc... what next, forced sterilisation, forced adoption into two parent families... well that worked out over the last century didn't it....
This thread has annoyed the bbbbbbb out of me, someone who works in this line of work who obviously hasn't the first clue or hasn't bothered to look slightly deeper into the issues. Im out.....

The only poster running down what you refer to as "single mums" (thats a derogatory expression, theyre lone parents) is you. twice youve refferred to them as "pesky". Pesky to who, you? as far as I can see you dont even live in Ireland. Your references to fags and mars bars reveal your true colours anyway. So sorry your annoyed by any suggestion that anybody be asked to take personal responsibilty for their own actions, its obviously all a hiuge global conspiracy, isnt it?

conorhal

neckedit wrote: »

To be honest, I am not intelligent nor educated in the global poloitical scene to make an in depth reply to your post, but people are sick to the back teeth of not feeling safe to walk the streets of the capital city of our very small nation, and we are not thalking exclusively at night, we are talking daytime hours when we try to carry out our normal everyday lives, we cannot afford the time nor the resources to trace this problem back to its roots, i.e. the source of Drugs, We need to remember not all Junkies are scumbags, and more importantly not all scumbags are Junkies, But hey I'm so sorry this thread has annoyed you, and I| am sure the couple and thier unborn child are devasted to hear this news .

Don't worry about it, as soon as I hear sombody say "I would suggest if you read, Foucault be the place to start".. I just think, Jesus save us from sociology students, the bane of rational and practical solutions. Next semester he's be quoting Emile Durkheim and I'll have to go all Good Will Hunting on his ass

mickydoomsux

conorhal wrote: »

Jesus save us from sociology students, the bane of rational and practical solutions.

Precisely.

You can throw all the flowery methodology you want at these scumbags and they'll act like angels when they know they have to and then go out and stove someones head in the next day.

How many times do we hear of guys with 20+ convictions in their early twenties killing someone or beating someone into a coma when they were out on parole or had a suspended sentence hanging over them.

They'll act like saints in front of social workers and judges and piss themselves laughing with their mates as they are walking free from yet another criminal charge because some fool decided they needed another chance because of their "hard upbringing".

I'm just sick and tired of this kid-glove nonsense at this stage.

dharma200

lol.. first of all i am not a sociology student and second of all I am female....

mrsbyrne

dharma200 wrote: »

lol.. first of all i am not a sociology student and second of all I am female....

...and you said and I quote "I'm out" ...but your back now. You don't deny you've described lone parents as "pesky single mothers" twice already?

No Pants

Mikros wrote: »

Harsher sentencing does nothing to reduce offending or reduce recidivism rates.

Are you saying that they will still offend even while in prison for twenty years?

Snake

No Pants wrote: »

Are you saying that they will still offend even while in prison for twenty years?

I wouldn't

dan1895

They'll be doing a bit later on the Moncrief show on news talk about carjackings including interviews with the perpetrators.

extra gravy

Another one today, this time in Terenure on a woman with two children.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0516/617918-terenure-hijacking/