Returning a Bicycle

Blisterman

I recently bought a bicycle online, which, when I brought it out for a ride a few days after receiving it, immediately broke.

I contacted the shop I bought it from, who accept that the bike was faulty, but insist it is boxed when they collect it from me for a refund.

Now, the cost of a buying a cardboard box big enough to hold a bike is close to €30. I've contacted local bike shops, and none of them have any boxes to spare. I disposed of the original box it came with shortly after receiving it.

The shop is refusing either to send me a box or to collect it unless it is boxed. What are my rights in this situation. Can they insist I spend my own money to package an item which was clearly faulty?

Teagwee

Maybe not an answer to your question, but (IMO) one man's 'box' is another man's selection of cardboard pieces spliced together with tape. It's the option I'd choose under the circumstances.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ask the supplier to refund you the cost of shipping it back incl the purchase of a box.

Alias G

Surprised that a local bike shop can't supply you with a box. If you try a busy shop you should definitely get one. I don't know what your exact rights would be but I think you ought to be required to return item in original or equivalent packaging.

slimjimmc

There is no legal obligation on you to provide packaging and it's unreasonable on them to refuse of collect on that basis. Under consumer law any returns must be a no cost to the consumer. The seller is allowed to ask the consumer to initially bear return costs but they must refund the consumer for all costs borne.

mdebets

slimjimmc wrote: »

There is no legal obligation on you to provide packaging and it's unreasonable on them to refuse of collect on that basis. Under consumer law any returns must be a no cost to the consumer. The seller is allowed to ask the consumer to initially bear return costs but they must refund the consumer for all costs borne.

That only applies if the OP bought it from an Irish website. If he bought it froma European one, it's whatever the law is in the country, if he bought it from outside the EU, then it's really up to what the shop wants.

skelligs

slimjimmc wrote: »

There is no legal obligation on you to provide packaging and it's unreasonable on them to refuse of collect on that basis. Under consumer law any returns must be a no cost to the consumer. The seller is allowed to ask the consumer to initially bear return costs but they must refund the consumer for all costs borne.

Actually, the customer is responsible for packing the return in a safe manner so that no additional damage can come to the item.

Whether that be a box, wrapped in bubble wrap or corrugated cardboard, it still must be packed suitably for return. The fact that its a bicycle and requires a large box doesn't make a difference - if you were returning a pair of shoes, would you expect to be able to just had the pair to a courier? The supplier is not insisting on the original box, just a box. Couriers won't take unpackaged items.

Check DIY or furniture stores for a box suitable.

Cabaal

slimjimmc wrote: »

There is no legal obligation on you to provide packaging and it's unreasonable on them to refuse of collect on that basis. Under consumer law any returns must be a no cost to the consumer. The seller is allowed to ask the consumer to initially bear return costs but they must refund the consumer for all costs borne.

Keep in mind that the requirement of the item being packaged is likely nothing to do with the bike company, it is far more likely be the carrier and it makes perfect sense.

Its not unreasonable for a carrier to expect a item like a bike to be boxed for transit, in much the same way as airlines require a bike to be boxed for transit,

Not putting a bike in a box and then expecting the carrier not to scratch the paintwork or damage a brake cable or lever etc is very silly, the requirement for the bike to be boxed is perfectly reasonable in this instance and its the customer's job to ensure the item is packaged suitably for return to prevent further damage.

JimsAlterEgo

Cabaal wrote: »

Keep in mind that the requirement of the item being packaged is likely nothing to do with the bike company, it is far more likely be the carrier and it makes perfect sense.

Its not unreasonable for a carrier to expect a item like a bike to be boxed for transit, in much the same way as airlines require a bike to be boxed for transit,

Not putting a bike in a box and then expecting the carrier not to scratch the paintwork or damage a brake cable or lever etc is very silly, the requirement for the bike to be boxed is perfectly reasonable in this instance and its the customer's job to ensure the item is packaged suitably for return to prevent further damage.

however if the packaging has been disposed of the OP shoulf be reimbursed ofr any packaging costs

daymobrew

Your local recycling centre might have large pieces of cardboard that you could "up cycle"

skelligs

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

however if the packaging has been disposed of the OP shoulf be reimbursed ofr any packaging costs

The OP disposed of the packaging not the supplier, so its the OP's responsibility to ensure safe return by reasonable means.

Its not for the supplier to do this as they supplied it in a box.

Theoretically the supplier could take it back, fix it and return it to the customer. In that case would the OP be willing to send it back without protective cover and allow for the supplier to re-send without protective cover?

Dinging

The guys in the cycling forum are a helpful bunch and maybe able to help you source the box you need. They are buying new bikes all of the time.

Cabaal

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

however if the packaging has been disposed of the OP shoulf be reimbursed ofr any packaging costs

I disagree,
the disposal of the packaging was not a failing of the bike company...the OP did that, its the OP's job to package the item in a safe and suitable manner. It's not the bike company's job to refund a customer for any paper, cardboard or sticky tape the customer might use.

Next you'll be claiming that if somebody has to return something and it involves going to the post office the person should be refunded petrol money :pac:

JimsAlterEgo

Cabaal wrote: »

I disagree,
the disposal of the packaging was not a failing of the bike company...the OP did that, its the OP's job to package the item in a safe and suitable manner. It's not the bike company's job to refund a customer for any paper, cardboard or sticky tape the customer might use.

Next you'll be claiming that if somebody has to return something and it involves going to the post office the person should be refunded petrol money :pac:

no but if a reasonable package of time has passed, the OP shouldnt be out of pocket

Beano

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

no but if a reasonable package of time has passed, the OP shouldnt be out of pocket

It broke a few days after he received so i wouldnt say a reasonable amount of time has passed. If it was months later then it would be different.

beauf

Cost of returns is a disadvantage online shopping.

blackbird98

just get any cardboard boxes and spilt them up, then tape them around the bike

Alias G wrote: »

Surprised that a local bike shop can't supply you with a box.

I'm not, as a matter of fact I'd be more surprised if they did give him the box, after all, he bypassed the local bike shop to buy cheaper online. I'm sure the local business wouldn't be too impressed

Alias G

blackbird98 wrote: »

just get any cardboard boxes and spilt them up, then tape them around the bike


I'm not, as a matter of fact I'd be more surprised if they did give him the box, after all, he bypassed the local bike shop to buy cheaper online. I'm sure the local business wouldn't be too impressed

I have got bicycle boxes from shops plenty of times. They are simply chucking them anyway. And I'm not on close terms with any bike shop. The OP doesn't have to state the intended purpose. The box could be required for bringing a bike on a plane for example which would be the most typical reason that a box would be sought.

drunkmonkey

What's actually wrong with the bike? Frame cracked?

Most parts are fixable, can you not just send back the broken bit, i'm in the same situation at the moment, the crank broke off after 5 minutes and all the threads are wrecked, i'm just sending back that part rather than the whole bike. Who ever put it on must have ringed it. Bike only arrived from Germany yesterday and part sent back today.

Bought off evans cycles before and the derailer came off after about 3 week and done a good bit of damage, scratched the frame, buckled the wheel, they made me send back the whole bike but there was no bother replacing it and they were in the uk.

WildCardDoW

Try Smyths / Halfords if there's one nearby, they dispose of packing daily and sell bikes so you might get lucky.

Although they are flat packed!

slimjimmc

skelligs wrote: »

The OP disposed of the packaging not the supplier, so its the OP's responsibility to ensure safe return by reasonable means.
Its not for the supplier to do this as they supplied it in a box.
Theoretically the supplier could take it back, fix it and return it to the customer. In that case would the OP be willing to send it back without protective cover and allow for the supplier to re-send without protective cover?

Cabaal wrote: »

I disagree,
the disposal of the packaging was not a failing of the bike company...the OP did that, its the OP's job to package the item in a safe and suitable manner. It's not the bike company's job to refund a customer for any paper, cardboard or sticky tape the customer might use.

Next you'll be claiming that if somebody has to return something and it involves going to the post office the person should be refunded petrol money :pac:

The law says different.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0011.html

7. (1) The seller shall be liable to the consumer for any lack of conformity referred to in Regulation 5 which exists at the time the goods were delivered.

(2) In the case of such a lack of conformity, the consumer shall, subject to, and, in accordance with, this Regulation, be entitled to have —
(a) the goods brought into conformity free of charge by repair or replacement, or
(b) an appropriate reduction made in the price, or
(c) the contract rescinded with regard to those goods.
(3) In the first place, the consumer may require the seller to repair the goods or to replace them (in either case free of charge) unless this is impossible or disproportionate.
:
:
:
(6) In paragraphs (2) and (3) “free of charge” means free of the costs that must necessarily be incurred to bring the goods into conformity, including the cost of carriage postage, labour and materials.

beauf wrote: »

Cost of returns is a disadvantage online shopping.

Only if returning for change of mind or invoking the 7 day cooling off period.
You are entitled to return free of charge if you are returning a product because it is defective (or other breach of contract).

Cabaal

- Company is going to repair it free of charge (thats labour covered)
- Company is going to collect it free of charge as they'll pay for carrier (so thats postage covered)
- Company won't charge for any material's/parts needed to fix the item (thats parts and materials covered)

Consumer still needs to package the item in a safe and suitable way for the carrier to collect it, again my previous response still stands.

You wouldn't expect a company to refund your petrol costs if you had to drive to the post office, its about as silly as trying to charge the company for your personal time having to wait in for the carrier to pick up the bike.

slimjimmc

But the company is not collecting it free of charge if the collection is conditional on the item being packaged at the consumer's expense.
In that case packaging is a necessary cost which must be free of charge to the consumer as specified in law.

Cabaal

slimjimmc wrote: »

But the company is not collecting it free of charge if the collection is conditional on the item being packaged at the consumer's expense.
In that case packaging is a necessary cost which must be free of charge to the consumer as specified in law.

Company is paying for the carrier,

Carrier is going to require that the item is packaged safely for transit, thats a pretty reasonable request from the carrier.
Don't believe me? Then try purchase an item of clothing from a company (for example shoes) and then go to your local postoffice to return it without any proper packaging what so ever (with just the return address taped to the shoe itself, the postmaster will tell you they won't be accepting it.

If the company advised the customer that the item needs to be packaged this really would have only been to prevent the carrier showing up and saying "can't take that" and wasting everyone's time and money

Beano

slimjimmc wrote: »

But the company is not collecting it free of charge if the collection is conditional on the item being packaged at the consumer's expense.
In that case packaging is a necessary cost which must be free of charge to the consumer as specified in law.

The company want the product returned in the same protective packaging that it was sent in. And you think that is unreasonable?

slimjimmc

Beano wrote: »

The company want the product returned in the same protective packaging that it was sent in. And you think that is unreasonable?

No it's not unreasonable to send the product back in protective package, what's unreasonable is demanding the customer pays for it when the law is quite explicit on the subject, the consumer is entitled to a return free of charge.

doublej

Alias G wrote: »

Surprised that a local bike shop can't supply you with a box. If you try a busy shop you should definitely get one. I don't know what your exact rights would be but I think you ought to be required to return item in original or equivalent packaging.

Why should a brick and mortar rate paying Irish business facilitate a person that elected to purchase online? Perhaps the poster should have suggested that OP should buy a cycle box from the cycle store!

Darkglasses

Dinging wrote: »

The guys in the cycling forum are a helpful bunch and maybe able to help you source the box you need. They are buying new bikes all of the time.

Yeah, feel free to put up a thread in adverts forum there. We regularly have people offering them for free, they're useful for things like this

Beano

slimjimmc wrote: »

No it's not unreasonable to send the product back in protective package, what's unreasonable is demanding the customer pays for it when the law is quite explicit on the subject, the consumer is entitled to a return free of charge.

The company provided the packaging required to ship the product. The customer decided to throw it out.

Alias G

doublej wrote: »

Why should a brick and mortar rate paying Irish business facilitate a person that elected to purchase online? Perhaps the poster should have suggested that OP should buy a cycle box from the cycle store!

Its only a box which they are dumping any way. In the real world decent people oblige each other. The OP obviously owns a bike so is clearly a target market for the bricks and mortar shop. You don't win customers by acting mean spirited to them.

Darkglasses

You don't have to tell them why you want a box. People very often want them when they want to put their bike on a plane for holidays. If they haven't got one, ring another shop. It really isn't a big deal...