Returning a Bicycle

Umpalumpa

OP,why not go into a shop or warehouse and ask for some boxes
I've worked in many warehouses where I've had joe public walk in and make a similar request.
I've never said no and would be surprised if someone would have a problem handing over boxes

foggy_lad

Blisterman wrote: »

I recently bought a bicycle online, which, when I brought it out for a ride a few days after receiving it, immediately broke.

I contacted the shop I bought it from, who accept that the bike was faulty, but insist it is boxed when they collect it from me for a refund.

Now, the cost of a buying a cardboard box big enough to hold a bike is close to €30. I've contacted local bike shops, and none of them have any boxes to spare. I disposed of the original box it came with shortly after receiving it.

The shop is refusing either to send me a box or to collect it unless it is boxed. What are my rights in this situation. Can they insist I spend my own money to package an item which was clearly faulty?

The shop must repair replace or refund and you can not be obliged to retain packaging which would normally have been thrown away or recycled. The shop must provide packaging if required or refund you for any and all packaging costs.

davo10

foggy_lad wrote: »

The shop must repair replace or refund and you can not be obliged to retain packaging which would normally have been thrown away or recycled. The shop must provide packaging if required or refund you for any and all packaging costs.

Where did you get all that from?, the three R's part of the post is correct assuming the online shop is in Ireland, but as for providing packaging, you've made that up. Bike arrived to OP with packaging, it's up to OP to send it back. One of the perils of not buying in a shop.

foggy_lad

skelligs wrote: »

The OP disposed of the packaging not the supplier, so its the OP's responsibility to ensure safe return by reasonable means.

Its not for the supplier to do this as they supplied it in a box.

Theoretically the supplier could take it back, fix it and return it to the customer. In that case would the OP be willing to send it back without protective cover and allow for the supplier to re-send without protective cover?

The supplier must take back the goods at no cost to the buyer so that means they must cover any costs involved in posting and packaging

Beano wrote: »

The company provided the packaging required to ship the product. The customer decided to throw it out.

Have you kept all boxes and packaging for every large household item you ever purchased?

If the item was a washing machine or a flat screen television would people expect the consumer to have to pay for packaging? The retailer is responsible for all post and packaging costs where a return is because of a faulty product.

davo10

I've read through this thread, have I missed it or has the OP not posted it was bought in Ireland? If it wasn't, then forget about rights for costs of return and the 3R's, it's whatever the law is in the country of purchase. Also, OP has not shared the nature of the fault, this may be found to be a fault in the way OP put it together. Vendors are entitled to examine the item before offering a solution to the problem, and that includes checking if the purchaser was at fault ( I do understand that in this case the seller has said there was a fault but they still have not seen it). I'm surprised this is such a big issue, card board boxes are everywhere, I would have thought it would be far more of an issue if as often happens the online seller washes their hands of the problem.

This is another illustration of the difference between online v's shop purchases.

foggy_lad

davo10 wrote: »

Where did you get all that from?, the three R's part of the post is correct assuming the online shop is in Ireland, but as for providing packaging, you've made that up. Bike arrived to OP with packaging, it's up to OP to send it back. One of the perils of not buying in a shop.

The online shop can tell the consumer what they want about sending it back in the original packaging but the law is different.

I was told a number of years ago by Acer support that a laptop I had bought that was being returned had to be returned in the original box it came in or I would have to pay a standard return fee of €80 plus pay for them to send the laptop back to me in a new box.

When I checked with the National Consumer Agency they told me that was nonsense as the retailer were responsible for all costs of postage and packaging involved in any return and a consumer can not reasonably be expected to retain packaging after a purchase, They also said to deal only with the shop and ignore Acer if I had any more issues.

On hearing from the N.C.A. Acer immediately changed their stance and said that they would send me out a box to package the laptop in for the courier.

The retailer can chance their arm to try and save a few euro but at the end of the day they are responsible for return post and packaging. It is up to the consumer to ensure that the item is packed securely but the retailer must cover costs of such packaging if required.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/si/0011.html

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/consumers/protection_of_consumers/l32022_en.htm

When a lack of conformity is notified to the seller, the consumer will be entitled to ask:

for the goods to be repaired or replaced free of charge within a reasonable period and without major inconvenience to the consumer;
for an appropriate reduction to be made to the price, or for the contract to be rescinded, if repair or replacement is impossible or disproportionate, or if the seller has not remedied the shortcoming within a reasonable period or without major inconvenience to the consumer.

davo10

foggy_lad wrote: »

The online shop can tell the consumer what they want about sending it back in the original packaging but the law is different.

They also said to deal only with the shop and ignore Acer if I had any more issues.
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Which law says different? Irish, English, Polish, Chinese?

Before posting any more, bare in mind:

a) OP has not informed us where it came from, Ireland, EU, outside EU.

b) what the fault was and whether it was a manufacturing fault or possibly a fault due to poor assembly.

d) OP does need original packaging, just a box.

If this was me, I'd be thinking, great an online shop which will take a bike back no questions asked and send a replacement. Online shops are not always as accomadating, who would have thought the issue would be finding a card board box, think Tescos/Dunnes/Halfords/Currys etc

foggy_lad

Blisterman wrote: »

I recently bought a bicycle online, which, when I brought it out for a ride a few days after receiving it, immediately broke.

I contacted the shop I bought it from, who accept that the bike was faulty, but insist it is boxed when they collect it from me for a refund.

Now, the cost of a buying a cardboard box big enough to hold a bike is close to €30. I've contacted local bike shops, and none of them have any boxes to spare. I disposed of the original box it came with shortly after receiving it.

The shop is refusing either to send me a box or to collect it unless it is boxed. What are my rights in this situation. Can they insist I spend my own money to package an item which was clearly faulty?

€30 is a MAJOR inconvenience imho and the shop are being unreasonable in their request.

davo10 wrote: »

Which law says different? Irish, English, Polish, Chinese?

Before posting any more, bare in mind:

a) OP has not informed us where it came from, Ireland, EU, outside EU. If outside the EU the OP will have to find a box, within the EU the OP is covered by the regulations

b) what the fault was and whether it was a manufacturing fault or possibly a fault due to poor assembly.Fault accepted by the shop

d) OP does need original packaging, just a box. only if it does not inconvenience the OP

If this was me, I'd be thinking, great an online shop which will take a bike back no questions asked and send a replacement. Online shops are not always as accomadating, who would have thought the issue would be finding a card board box, think Tescos/Dunnes/Halfords/Currys etc

If it was me I would buy a roll of cheap tape in Dealz and tape the bike up in bits of torn up boxes till it was covered completely.

davo10

foggy_lad wrote: »

€30 is a MAJOR inconvenience imho and the shop are being unreasonable in their request.


If it was me I would buy a roll of cheap tape in Dealz and tape the bike up in bits of torn up boxes till it was covered completely.

Actually the €30 is a convenient way of not looking around for a box. Again, and try to think about this, if the bike was bought online, it is unlikely to have been bought from an Irish seller and is therefore subject to consumer law in the country where it came from.

Foggy you can wrap it in tree leaves if it makes you feel happier, but the courier may not accept it and when it arrives at the seller they may see damage not entirely due to a manufacturing fault.

slimjimmc

davo10 wrote: »

Actually the €30 is a convenient way of not looking around for a box. Again, and try to think about this, if the bike was bought online, it is unlikely to have been bought from an Irish seller and is therefore subject to consumer law in the country where it came from.

Foggy you can wrap it in tree leaves if it makes you feel happier, but the courier may not accept it and when it arrives at the seller they may see damage not entirely due to a manufacturing fault.

Not necessarily.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_rights_and_cross_border_shopping_in_the_european_union.html

The main rights that are given to every European consumer under the European Directive on certain aspects of the sale of consumer goods and associated guarantees (1999/44/EC) are set out below.

• If you purchase goods or services from another EU Member State and they were advertised in your country, you are protected under consumer law of your home country.
• If you purchased goods or services from a representative of the business in your home country, national consumer law of your home country protects you.
• If you buy goods or services while you were visiting another EU Member State the laws of the country in which you bought the items apply.

davo10

slimjimmc wrote: »

Not necessarily.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_rights/consumer_rights_and_cross_border_shopping_in_the_european_union.html

Do you know for certain what the "main rights" and "certain aspects" are? Do they include the seller providing replacement packaging?, how would OP find out?, how would OP ensure that seller followed these rules, bring a case to the EU court?. Were they advertised in this country or did OP find it by doing a google search for a particular type of bike? Does google optimisation to ensure your website is on the first page constitute advertising in a particular country or does this refer to print/TV forms of media?

Some perspective is needed here, we are talking about a card board box, not a complex microchip costing thousands, the issue should have been whether the seller would accept the bike back no questions asked, not where OP got the box. It doesn't need to be a bicycle box, a couple of ordinary boxes taped together may do. OP could go to his local pub, if they serve food/snacks they will have loads of boxes, he/she could ask the recycling bin collectors where the local recycling centre is and he/she could have a pick of thousands of boxes.

And again, perhaps OP might inform us where the bike came from.

skelligs

foggy_lad wrote: »

The shop must repair replace or refund and you can not be obliged to retain packaging which would normally have been thrown away or recycled. The shop must provide packaging if required or refund you for any and all packaging costs.

foggy_lad wrote: »

The supplier must take back the goods at no cost to the buyer so that means they must cover any costs involved in posting and packaging

foggy_lad wrote: »

The online shop can tell the consumer what they want about sending it back in the original packaging but the law is different.

Where has the seller insisted on the original packaging? Please please please tell us, cos I can see it anywhere.

The seller has requested for it to be packaged safely, probably so that no further damage can be done.

The buyer cannot absolve himself/herself of responsibility of ensuring the package is properly and safely packed. If the OP simply sends it back without packaging, and it is further damaged, then the seller would be entitled to deduct reasonable costs.