Searching for a horse for my son - advice appreciated

2012paddy2012

sup_dude wrote: »

I've highlighted the parts of your post that has me going "errrmmmm....". Going by what you posted here, and here alone, it doesn't particularly sound like a suitable pony. In saying that, I could be entirely wrong and wouldn't know unless I seen the horse in action. However, if it was someone I knew that came up to me and told me what you've said, I would be cautioning them to be careful. It is your son's first horse and your son is a child. 6 is still quite young, even for a horse that has been worked for the last 3 years, never mind one that has reared two foals and taken a year off. I'm not saying not to do it OP, but take someone who knows exactly what they are doing and don't trust the word of the owner without testing it first.

I agree 100% - I am not rushing in. Initially I have asked a few questions again just for clarity before I call there. I will firstly see the horse being ridden. Then let my son do the things he normally does , if the horse appears safe and well behaved. I intend to video both , the rider and my son with the horse and post here for views. In relation to another post - yes my son just loves horses and anything to do with them , and is prepared and aware that schooling them on is a slow , process , and is happy at that.

So if it was you in my boots ....other than above initially , is there anything else I should watch for? or do? thks

Paddy

2012paddy2012

Please find attached photos of XXXXXX taken this evening.
Please remember she is a rescue mare who had two foals and has only started riding again in the last month. What she has done before I do not know.
She is bombproof quiet and kind. You will have to school her on as with any youngster. As in flat work and jumping. She may not be ready to compete this year.
XXXXX

This is the initial email from "seller" ...any relevant questions as regards the above ...appreciated!!!!

monflat

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Please find attached photos of XXXXXX taken this evening.
Please remember she is a rescue mare who had two foals and has only started riding again in the last month. What she has done before I do not know.
She is bombproof quiet and kind. You will have to school her on as with any youngster. As in flat work and jumping. She may not be ready to compete this year.
XXXXX

This is the initial email from "seller" ...any relevant questions as regards the above ...appreciated!!!!

Oh god ok.
U see ive had my experience of " rescue" horses whilst they give you a lot of satisfaction they can be bloddy hard work .
It depends thou what this person describes as rescue .
Get more info from them as to why she is classed as a rescue.
Was she abandoned starving alone in a wood and the seller took her in. ?
If found her alone is an answer alarm bells would ring in my head straight away.
This horse could be nappy ( just keep it in mind)
Why did they breed 2 foals from her if she was a " rescue "
She must have been broken v young .
If she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ?

I had a mare once well looked after but her owner was cuttin numbers .
I aquired her if i didnt accept her she would have went to factory.
But i would not call her a rescue horse.

Find out a bit more about the rescue part .

2012paddy2012

brill thks
I have just started a page of questions to ask......I will ring her tomorrow and get the answers.....so if ye think of any more ..pls feel free to add!!

thks

Paddy

monflat

Actually my point is they " rescued" her but still bred 2 foals from her.
I presume she has no passport or had one when they " rescued " her so another case of over breeeding

2012paddy2012

monflat wrote: »

Oh god ok.
U see ive had my experience of " rescue" horses whilst they give you a lot of satisfaction they can be bloddy hard work .
It depends thou what this person describes as rescue .
Get more info from them as to why she is classed as a rescue.
Was she abandoned starving alone in a wood and the seller took her in. ?
If found her alone is an answer alarm bells would ring in my head straight away.
This horse could be nappy ( just keep it in mind)
Why did they breed 2 foals from her if she was a " rescue "
She must have been broken v young .
If she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ?

I had a mare once well looked after but her owner was cuttin numbers .
I aquired her if i didnt accept her she would have went to factory.
But i would not call her a rescue horse.

Find out a bit more about the rescue part .

why did they breed two foals ...can you expand on this ..the relevance thks..also she could be nappy!! ??...
lastly ..pasted;;;;
she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ? what does this mean

lyoness

monflat wrote: »

Oh god ok.
U see ive had my experience of " rescue" horses whilst they give you a lot of satisfaction they can be bloddy hard work .
It depends thou what this person describes as rescue .
Get more info from them as to why she is classed as a rescue.
Was she abandoned starving alone in a wood and the seller took her in. ?
If found her alone is an answer alarm bells would ring in my head straight away.
This horse could be nappy ( just keep it in mind)
Why did they breed 2 foals from her if she was a " rescue "
She must have been broken v young .
If she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ?

I had a mare once well looked after but her owner was cuttin numbers .
I aquired her if i didnt accept her she would have went to factory.
But i would not call her a rescue horse.

Find out a bit more about the rescue part .

Please get a ready made pony for your son. I have my own horse 4 yrs and I would not consider myself competent enough to 'teach' a young green horse like this. Riding school ponies are light years away from a green horse.
Are you also aware of the mare vs geldings debate?
Can you elaborate on how experienced your son is.
Does he ride on his own, no instructor.
Has he ridden anything other than a riding school pony.
Are his lessons private or group based?

Are you aware that this pony may not know the basic aids of riding and will have to be taught this?
Also if have been left off chances are pony will be unfit and although quiet to begin with may prove to be a different story altogether when fit.
Have you anyone experienced to come to the viewings with you?

I know horse buying is a minefield I once drove for 3 hours to see a horse (actually v similar description horse green as had foals) I didn't even get on the horse and drove home again! She was totally unsuitable. Hindsight is a great thing ☺️ Sellers tell you what you want to hear unfortunately.

lyoness

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

why did they breed two foals ...can you expand on this ..the relevance thks..also she could be nappy!! ??...
lastly ..pasted;;;;
she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ? what does this mean

Means she weaned her foal this year so would have been off work for at least a year and a half. Then 2 foals mean approx 3 yrs off. She's only 6 this dosent add up. She shouldn't have been broken at 3 if she was that's more issues. After all that time off she would have to be practically re-broken. I wouldn't sit on this horse let alone let a child sit on her.

2012paddy2012

lyoness wrote: »

Please get a ready made pony for your son. I have my own horse 4 yrs and I would not consider myself competent enough to 'teach' a young green horse like this. Riding school ponies are light years away from a green horse.
Are you also aware of the mare vs geldings debate?
Can you elaborate on how experienced your son is.
Does he ride on his own, no instructor.
Has he ridden anything other than a riding school pony.
Are his lessons private or group based?

Are you aware that this pony may not know the basic aids of riding and will have to be taught this?
Also if have been left off chances are pony will be unfit and although quiet to begin with may prove to be a different story altogether when fit.
Have you anyone experienced to come to the viewings with you?

I know horse buying is a minefield I once drove for 3 hours to see a horse (actually v similar description horse green as had foals) I didn't even get on the horse and drove home again! She was totally unsuitable. Hindsight is a great thing ☺️ Sellers tell you what you want to hear unfortunately.

yeah I agree completely ...I am very weary of anything I am being told.
You are correct. I am just getting a list of questions to ask ,,,and come back here for advice ... I will try and get an experienced instructor to come on a second visit ..if the first is ok..Son only just 13 rides with instruction moistly ...that's my major worry .....I need to be sure that pony is suitable..
what is the "aids of riding" that is first time I heard that ( now on my question list!) they will school him at the riding school ... thks

lyoness

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

yeah I agree completely ...I am very weary of anything I am being told.
You are correct. I am just getting a list of questions to ask ,,,and come back here for advice ... I will try and get an experienced instructor to come on a second visit ..if the first is ok..Son only just 13 rides with instruction moistly ...that's my major worry .....I need to be sure that pony is suitable..
what is the "aids of riding" that is first time I heard that ( now on my question list!) they will school him at the riding school ... thks

Horses have to be taught to be ridden ie aids for canter are different for aids to trot. They have to be taught to go and to stop. I don't think your son is at this level.
Have to be taught to jump.
Professional schooling is expensive I have paid €25 for just a half hour. Just another thing to consider.

lyoness

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

yeah I agree completely ...I am very weary of anything I am being told.
You are correct. I am just getting a list of questions to ask ,,,and come back here for advice ... I will try and get an experienced instructor to come on a second visit ..if the first is ok..Son only just 13 rides with instruction moistly ...that's my major worry .....I need to be sure that pony is suitable..
what is the "aids of riding" that is first time I heard that ( now on my question list!) they will school him at the riding school ... thks

Also mares come into season every 3 weeks and can be very temperamental.
Are you aware of this? A big animal with pmt? IMO I would be looking for a gelding as a 1st pony

monflat

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

why did they breed two foals ...can you expand on this ..the relevance thks..also she could be nappy!! ??...
lastly ..pasted;;;;
she off for past yr s the most recent foal obly weaned the winter gone ? what does this mean

Ok what i mean by she could be nappy is find out where they rescued her from..if she was dumped alone in a wood to fend for herself alone with no other equine company. when she was taken by these owners she may ( but not necessarily) be a bit nappy
Began to enjoy her horse friends again and when asked to ride away from her company she may show some reluctance

With regards to 2 foals she 6 now so what i mean was the foal weaned from her in the past few months ?
What age would she have been when broken ?
If she was in foal as a 3 yr old into her 4 th yr
Then another from her 4 th yr into her 5 th.
Then that weaned off her last winter for example so she is 6 now
So she would have been broken in v young but i would question how much work did she get.

monflat

Also
Id be thinking of any emotional issues a rescue horse may have.
Especially as a first.

Check out how the horse is on the ground is it bargy / pushy when being led.
Does it pull your son around.
When you view it.
Get the owner to lead it does it push the owner does it stop walking when the owner stops?

Get the person to reverse it does it back up.
If it cant back up keep asking it
She may lean right back as if she doin a big stretch like a dog.
Her feet may be like as if they are superglued to the ground.
This would for me be a major issue and take sometime to rectify on the ground before getting into the saddle.
Later on it could identify a bucker or a rearer.

Does she flex in the neck ?
If you cant bend a horse. Absolutly NO BIT in its mouth will stop her.
She needs to flex her neck on both sides.

If she is bombproof get owner to tell you what circumstances she actually is comfortable in.

monflat

Op i understand you would like to do good and take a rescue or something that has had a hard life.
But what exactly is your budget ?
I know you have considered all angles and are not rushing into anything .
But nothing beats a horse/ pony that has been broken well had a good start in life and is a pleasure to be around.

Im a bit of a perfectionist and like things done right .
However if you pay on a good mannerly pony your son can enjoy it and have fun.
Im telling nothin knocks ones confidence more than a horse/ pony who does something seen as " dirty " but maybe the pony did it out.of mis understanding.
They did not understand the question asked
Or they were overfaced with what was expected of them.
Its a long road for your son but it should be enjoyable.

However .nothing compares to sitting on a well broken well schooled mannerly horse and getting a job done and the rider and horse enjoying it !!

2012paddy2012

this horse has come to my attention from word of mouth ...as someone who knows we are on the lookout , passed our details to the owner.
I am only getting info now. I note the gelding/mare issue. At the end of the day , I understand all the things/issues that may arise. Having said that , it would be a shame to pass up on what could be an ideal pony , with a bit of work to bring her on , which we can do.

RE: "RESCUE" this lady found this pony with a yearling at her foot and in foal. This was "off the mountain" That was a year ago. She has no knowledge of the animals history obviously before that. At this point , the horse is been ridden every day for the last month.

The horse has taken to been ridden like a duck to water. This I understand is how it has been established that the horse was "broken".

Obviously it would not allow saddle/etc etc ..if it had not been broken.

as monflat says and in an ideal world "But nothing beats a horse/ pony that has been broken well had a good start in life and is a pleasure to be around. In all reality in this world there are a lot of chancers / unsuitable horses being peddled around /done deal etc ..notwithstanding that , this is a case of a person being aware that someone is looking for a pony and being straight giving all the information she has , and its her view that the temperament of the pony suits what we require.

I hope to travel down on Friday and look at the horse , take all the advice that is brilliant that monflat advises....walk away if the horse doesn't do as it should. If all goes well on Friday , I will next get a full vet report. This will be expensive , but its a must for me (as well as for Allianz insurance) ...if that is 100% I will call again and hopefully get someone from sons livery place to give it a full going over as she will be involved in bringing it on) If she is happy ... I think that's about all I can do

lyoness

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

this horse has come to my attention from word of mouth ...as someone who knows we are on the lookout , passed our details to the owner.
I am only getting info now. I note the gelding/mare issue. At the end of the day , I understand all the things/issues that may arise. Having said that , it would be a shame to pass up on what could be an ideal pony , with a bit of work to bring her on , which we can do.

RE: "RESCUE" this lady found this pony with a yearling at her foot and in foal. This was "off the mountain" That was a year ago. She has no knowledge of the animals history obviously before that. At this point , the horse is been ridden every day for the last month.

The horse has taken to been ridden like a duck to water. This I understand is how it has been established that the horse was "broken".

Obviously it would not allow saddle/etc etc ..if it had not been broken.

as monflat says and in an ideal world "But nothing beats a horse/ pony that has been broken well had a good start in life and is a pleasure to be around. In all reality in this world there are a lot of chancers / unsuitable horses being peddled around /done deal etc ..notwithstanding that , this is a case of a person being aware that someone is looking for a pony and being straight giving all the information she has , and its her view that the temperament of the pony suits what we require.

I hope to travel down on Friday and look at the horse , take all the advice that is brilliant that monflat advises....walk away if the horse doesn't do as it should. If all goes well on Friday , I will next get a full vet report. This will be expensive , but its a must for me (as well as for Allianz insurance) ...if that is 100% I will call again and hopefully get someone from sons livery place to give it a full going over as she will be involved in bringing it on) If she is happy ... I think that's about all I can do

So the horse was to all intents and purposes wild until a month ago. And you are happy to put a child on this pony?
You do realise when a horse is broken in first the done thing is to turn them away (ie into a field to process what they have learned) for a couple of months perhaps even 6. Is your son happy to do this?

I am going to unfollow this thread cos I am just getting frustrated. You are not taking any heed at all.

monflat

lyoness wrote: »

So the horse was to all intents and purposes wild until a month ago. And you are happy to put a child on this pony?
You do realise when a horse is broken in first the done thing is to turn them away (ie into a field to process what they have learned) for a couple of months perhaps even 6. Is your son happy to do this?

I am going to unfollow this thread cos I am just getting frustrated. You are not taking any heed at all.

In fairness hes not committing just yet to this mare.

convert

lyoness wrote: »

I am going to unfollow this thread cos I am just getting frustrated. You are not taking any heed at all.

lyoness, there's no need for comments like that to be posted in thread. Just do it silently; otherwise it can be deemed back seat modding.

lyoness

convert wrote: »

lyoness, there's no need for comments like that to be posted in thread. Just do it silently; otherwise it can be deemed back seat modding.

Apologies I actually don't know what back seat modding is but if I have broken a rule I apologise

2012paddy2012

Quite the contrary I am taking careful heed of all that is said- feel free to unfollow:

Ave Sodalis

OP, the pony has only a month of work and relatively untouched before that?

2012paddy2012

sup_dude wrote: »

OP, the pony has only a month of work and relatively untouched before that?

Nobody knows the pony's history it seems- this lady runs camps etc for kids and reckons it safe- I know all the downsides - I think a look at her -- see the temperament - firstly - then take it from there it can be worked at livery here

2012paddy2012

This is pic of her

lyoness

ok, I am still following

At first glance this pony looks unfit - as would be expected she has only bred foals and has only been worked for the past month.

You can see her neck is unmuscled and thin and she has no muscle on her hindquarters.

My fear would be the pony could be quiet now - but when fit and muscled it could be a different story.

This website has a good few articles on how a green pony is no good for a green rider.

http://www.horseandponyinfo.com/id65.html

Here is another good article (I am not for one second implying you are an idiot)

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/idiots-guide-to-buying-a-firsttime-pony-26472228.html


It also makes me wonder why this pony was "rescued" with a foal at foot and then put straight back into foal by these people?
Does she even have a passport?
No history means she probably has never been cared for i.e. feet, teeth etc.

I know your heart is in the right place OP. I know you want to get a pony for your son.
But my alarm bells would be ringing very loud with this one.

convert

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

feel free to unfollow:

paddy, please don't post in the above manner - it's unnecessary.

dave66

2012paddy2012,

Nearly two years ago I was in a position similar to yours, looking for a pony/daughter. She was more knowledgeable about horse than I was, as she had been riding for 5-6 years, in addition to this she had been "helping out" at a busy livery/school yard for 2 years. During that time she had learned not only to ride but exactly how much work goes into looking after a horse. Depending on how involved you will be in helping your son, whether you'll have the horse on DIY/Full/Grass livery will dictate the amount of time having a horse will take.

Even if you're not going to be helping son at the stables, you need to factor in that he'll probably want/need to visit the horse almost everyday. Depending how far you live from where the horse will be kept, that in itself is a drain on time and fuel costs.

I'm fairly heavily involved in helping my daughter and I'm at the yard 7 days a week, my daugher rides 5 days a week and rests the horse 2 days. Something worth factoring in is school/exams. We took on the horse 2 days after my girl finished her junior cert, she's just finishing 5th year now and we're already planning for 6th year as she'll need more time for study so I'm be trained on lunging, free jumping & free lunging, so I can exercise the horse when she's not available.

Unless your son has had a lot exposure to caring for a horse and is a strong rider who can handle a firsky/green horse, then I'd recommend you get an experienced rider to accompany you when viewing/trying a horse.

As for finding the right horse, it really can be a long drawn out affair. We were looking to loan a horse (at least initially) and travelled as far as Galway (from Wicklow) to see a horse. Due to the experience my girl had gotten, she was well capable of handling green, young, fiesty horses so we weren't too limited. We ended up being very lucky, she found an advert on I think donedeal for the mare she has now, the owner was living abroad and wanted somebody to loan the pony. She's a fiesty mare and as has been said mares do come in season regulary and can be a handful when in season.

I'd advise you to talk with your son and try workout together, what he wants to do with the horse, is he looking to just hack and ride at the yard, or does he hope to compete in the future. If competing is on the cards, then you're looking at transportation costs (either buying/rent a horsebox). You'll also want a horse that's suitable for competing and will load into a horsebox. Getting into competitions can be a another big commitment, between now and the middle of August I have 4 weekends where I won't be towing the horse to a show!

You also need to check how the horse is around you, especially if you'll be helping you son. I was amazed at the number of horses who don't really like men - if you get a horse like that, then patience & carrots can be the key

It does seem you are approaching this HUGE step in a sensible way, plenty of research and not rushing it.

So, almost two years into "ownership", with a lot of work, time and a fair deal of money expended, was it worth it? You bet it was! Would I do it again? Absolutely, it has meant so much to my daughter and I've gotten a lot from it too, including spending lots of time with my girl.

Talk to whoever has been teaching your son and get their honest view as to what he is ready to handle, then ask the hard question "Is he ready to own a horse".

Do lots of learning and if you can afford the time & your son is open to it, get involved.

2012paddy2012

dave66 wrote: »

2012paddy2012,

Nearly two years ago I was in a position similar to yours, looking for a pony/daughter. She was more knowledgeable about horse than I was, as she had been riding for 5-6 years, in addition to this she had been "helping out" at a busy livery/school yard for 2 years. During that time she had learned not only to ride but exactly how much work goes into looking after a horse. Depending on how involved you will be in helping your son, whether you'll have the horse on DIY/Full/Grass livery will dictate the amount of time having a horse will take.

Even if you're not going to be helping son at the stables, you need to factor in that he'll probably want/need to visit the horse almost everyday. Depending how far you live from where the horse will be kept, that in itself is a drain on time and fuel costs.

I'm fairly heavily involved in helping my daughter and I'm at the yard 7 days a week, my daugher rides 5 days a week and rests the horse 2 days. Something worth factoring in is school/exams. We took on the horse 2 days after my girl finished her junior cert, she's just finishing 5th year now and we're already planning for 6th year as she'll need more time for study so I'm be trained on lunging, free jumping & free lunging, so I can exercise the horse when she's not available.

Unless your son has had a lot exposure to caring for a horse and is a strong rider who can handle a firsky/green horse, then I'd recommend you get an experienced rider to accompany you when viewing/trying a horse.

As for finding the right horse, it really can be a long drawn out affair. We were looking to loan a horse (at least initially) and travelled as far as Galway (from Wicklow) to see a horse. Due to the experience my girl had gotten, she was well capable of handling green, young, fiesty horses so we weren't too limited. We ended up being very lucky, she found an advert on I think donedeal for the mare she has now, the owner was living abroad and wanted somebody to loan the pony. She's a fiesty mare and as has been said mares do come in season regulary and can be a handful when in season.

I'd advise you to talk with your son and try workout together, what he wants to do with the horse, is he looking to just hack and ride at the yard, or does he hope to compete in the future. If competing is on the cards, then you're looking at transportation costs (either buying/rent a horsebox). You'll also want a horse that's suitable for competing and will load into a horsebox. Getting into competitions can be a another big commitment, between now and the middle of August I have 4 weekends where I won't be towing the horse to a show!

You also need to check how the horse is around you, especially if you'll be helping you son. I was amazed at the number of horses who don't really like men - if you get a horse like that, then patience & carrots can be the key

It does seem you are approaching this HUGE step in a sensible way, plenty of research and not rushing it.

So, almost two years into "ownership", with a lot of work, time and a fair deal of money expended, was it worth it? You bet it was! Would I do it again? Absolutely, it has meant so much to my daughter and I've gotten a lot from it too, including spending lots of time with my girl.

Talk to whoever has been teaching your son and get their honest view as to what he is ready to handle, then ask the hard question "Is he ready to own a horse".

Do lots of learning and if you can afford the time & your son is open to it, get involved.

thks a mill ..that's nearly identical to my position. You are at the other end of the rainbow so to speak! I am delighted to hear things worked out fab for you I hope same for me..PS would you mind if I "PM" you if I had other queries , I would find it quite helpful to get advice from some one that has been down the same road that I am about to travel...thks again for your very informative and detaled reply

2012paddy2012

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

thks a mill ..that's nearly identical to my position. You are at the other end of the rainbow so to speak! I am delighted to hear things worked out fab for you I hope same for me..PS would you mind if I "PM" you if I had other queries , I would find it quite helpful to get advice from some one that has been down the same road that I am about to travel...thks again for your very informative and detaled reply

image.jpg

what do we think of this one!!!Broken and calm !!

monflat

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

image.jpg

what do we think of this one!!!Broken and calm !!

Hard enuf to tell from that picture any more pictures ?
Whats d description of it ?

Ave Sodalis

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

image.jpg

what do we think of this one!!!Broken and calm !!

Can't really go by a picture alone without any information. By who's judgement is it broken and calm?