Leak from above: what are my management co's responsibilities?

dublinario

Hello All,

My apartment has been plagued for the last couple of months with a leak coming from above. It has periodically come and gone, with an associated smell of urine.

The management company seemed to take a lead roll at first, telling myself and my tenants that they'd liase with the apartment above, and return to repair the damage. Since that time though, there's been nothing but stonewalling and broken promises -- and worst of all, my tenants handed in their notice.

Could anybody advise me on what typically are and aren't a management company's responsibilities in these kind of inter-department leaks? I'd rather deal with them than randomly knock on the door of the upstairs department, and start all over again with occupants who are likely to be tenants rather than the owner.

Similarly, does anybody know whether claims for damaged roofs in situations such as these are levelled against the building insurance? Or must I claim against the upstairs apartment somehow?

All advice, greatly appreciated,

Thanks,
Dub

Ray Palmer

It periodical could it possibly coincide with your upstairs neighbour going out drinking?

I kid you not, it may not be a leak at all. Had a tenant who had a habit of getting drunk and urinating in the corner of the bedroom causing a "leak" in the place below.

dublinario

Jaysus Ray, hadn't even occurred to me. Would take some bladder!

seamus

While the management company are responsible for finding and fixing the leak, they may be getting stonewalled by the apartment above. That is, the management company have no right to access the premises above and can only do so with the permission of the occupant. If the occupant refuses, it's a long and drawn out legal process to get access to the apartment, which may not even be granted in the end.

What you could do is allow them access through your apartment. While not ideal, they could remove the part of the ceiling where the leak is coming in to try and see what the problem is and if it's originating within the apartment above (due to a faulty sealing or grouting) or if it's a damaged pipe.

Damage to your ceiling and any structural walls in your home will be covered by the block insurance. Any damage to your contents is covered by your contents insurance. In general terms, the apartment above is not responsible for flood damage to yours even if the water originates there.

Find out from the managing agent why they haven't gone in to fix the leak yet. If they say the occupants/owner above is blocking them, then go speak to the occupants - maybe invite them down to yours to see the damage so they know you're not just trying to annoy them.
If they continue to block, then speak to a solicitor to see if it's legally possible to force access to the premises or to sue the owner of the apartment above for damages. You don't really want to sue the management company since at the end of the day you'll have to pay for it in management fees.

dublinario

Seamus, above and beyond mate. Thanks very much for so comprehensive a reply.

Chris_5339762

I thought the management company could get access if there was an emergency, ie: a flood or what could (potentially, anyway) be a serious sewerage problem?

Also, its not as clear cut as the management company being responsible. If the pipes leaking are part of the common area then yes, its their problem. But if the pipes are part of the upstairs apartment, then it is the responsibility of that owner to sort the problem out and potentially compensate you if damage has been done.

My understanding is the block insurance will NOT cover your contents... or indeed any damage to your apartment unless its coming from common area pipes. Even then, the excess is so high it'll probably not be worth it.

hucklebuck

If you have a copy of the block insurance ring their claims department to notify the claim yourself, they will send a surveyor out to review the damage and this should get the ball rolling.

In order for the claim to be successful it has to be caused by an insured peril, pipes damaged by frost, storm blowing tiles off the roof etc. If the leak looks gradual it won't be covered so you can say you rang them when you noticed it, give a recent date. The only other issue is if there have been a few water damage claims the excess could be anywhere from €1,500 to €10,000 so if the repair costs fall below you won't get insurance money.

If it was me I would retain my service fee for a few months and make the management company chase you, see how they like it.

You need to have your own contents policy to cover your contents as the block policy only covers contents in common areas.

How Strange

Withholding the service charge is the default knee jerk reaction to something like this. One has nothing to do with the other. Seamus has explained it very clearly. The management agents could ring the owner and offer to send in their plumber to sort it out. We did this a few times when landlords weren't recognising how a leak from their apartment was affecting someone else. Usually the owner was happy enough to do it that way and the managing agents knew the job was done properly.

As the affected owner I'd get back onto the agent and see what has been done so far and suggest using their plumber if they haven't already. I'd also go upstairs and knock on the door and chat to whoever is living there. They might not even know there's a leak.

Failing all that you'll have to go down the legal route to compel the owner to give access.

Lantus

Never withhold service fees. Once you do so you would be unable to make any claim on the block policy however valid as you would be in breach of contract and liable to have services withdrawn. (Which includes insurance.)

IF the pipes come from a riser or piped network that is the responsibility of the OMC then you could be able to make a claim as to consequential loss. This is damage to the apartment and the fixtures and fittings that were there when you bought the unit. This would be the plasterboard, electrics, kitchen etc. but generally always excludes flooring and any of your possessions. Basically everything you brought into the unit since you bought it. Your own contents insurance will cover that.

As people have said the water damage excess is typically much higher and can easily be 2-3k and can be much higher if claims were made in the past. The damage needs to be catastrophic to be worthwhile claiming (at least double the excess IMO.)

IF the pipes were inside the unit above then they are the responsibility of the owner above. The trouble here is that their contents cover probably wont cover your plasterboard damage.

Its a bad situation for any owner. The best thing to do is get a plumber to fix the leak quickly ideally paid for by the OMC or owner above and let everything dry out and then assess the damage. Plasterboard and some paint can be relatively cheap IF it needs replacing at all.