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Pierce Purcell 2014
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Greebo,
Playing devils advocate a little, is there not a danger of painting a "one size fits all" approach to inter club players & teams ?
Some guys pack the clubs away for the winter and after a couple of games in the spring, they're good to go. Others play all year round.
I can think of a number of guys who play all the time, feature in weekend comps, play lots of interclub and always lose. Conversely I can think of a few who never practice, don't play for a lot of the winter and almost always win their interclub matches.
I think there's a fine line between picking players on their ability and on perceived effort IMO. A bit like selecting the player who runs the most or the hardest in training over a player who's demonstrably better but maybe only does it in the matches and eases up in training. Rightly or wrongly.
Coaching and lessons and team prep is all well and good (I'd be all in favour of it myself), but I'd say its easier to get lower handicap teams, Senior Cup, Barton Shield etc to buy into that than the higher handicap ranges - no offence intended to anyone, I know its a bit of a generalisation.
Realistically I can't see many middle aged, 15 handicappers being too pushed about a practice session in November with a view to next year's Pierce Purcell to be honest. Absolutely teams should arrange practice matches if possible prior to an event, but even then, many events are now strokeplay qualifying followed by matchplay and players may or may not be suitable to one form or the other.
Besides, any good PP team worth their salt will be making sure not to "improve" and play well or get cut in the autumn/winter !!
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That's a good post Russman.
I would also add that unless you're a beginner, group lessons are not the way to go. Everyone's swing is different and what might work well for one person won't work for another. This would especially be true of players in the PP category (of which I include myself)...lots of unorthodox swings compared to low single figure golfers.
The commitment is good though. Perhaps a monthly foresomes comp would be good practice.
Loire.
The "group" aspect is that everyone is there at the same time, the tuition is individual (individual runs on Trackman for example)
Anyone is free at anytime to ask for help with some specific aspect of their game.
He will also do group coaching on specific game areas (bunkers, chipping, pitching for example) but these are typically aimed at the higher handicap groups.
Usually there are practices matches organised a few time a month (Sunday morning)
The Pro is very highly respected in the golfing world (Irish Ladies coach, Tutor to PGA at the Belfry etc) I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing
Greebo,
Playing devils advocate a little, is there not a danger of painting a "one size fits all" approach to inter club players & teams ?
Some guys pack the clubs away for the winter and after a couple of games in the spring, they're good to go. Others play all year round.
I can think of a number of guys who play all the time, feature in weekend comps, play lots of interclub and always lose. Conversely I can think of a few who never practice, don't play for a lot of the winter and almost always win their interclub matches.
I think there's a fine line between picking players on their ability and on perceived effort IMO. A bit like selecting the player who runs the most or the hardest in training over a player who's demonstrably better but maybe only does it in the matches and eases up in training. Rightly or wrongly.
Coaching and lessons and team prep is all well and good (I'd be all in favour of it myself), but I'd say its easier to get lower handicap teams, Senior Cup, Barton Shield etc to buy into that than the higher handicap ranges - no offence intended to anyone, I know its a bit of a generalisation.
Realistically I can't see many middle aged, 15 handicappers being too pushed about a practice session in November with a view to next year's Pierce Purcell to be honest. Absolutely teams should arrange practice matches if possible prior to an event, but even then, many events are now strokeplay qualifying followed by matchplay and players may or may not be suitable to one form or the other.
Besides, any good PP team worth their salt will be making sure not to "improve" and play well or get cut in the autumn/winter !!
Its not a one size fits all approach at all. Its a reward for people who are willing to put in the effort to the team. The lessons are separate from this, I cant stress this enough. The practice sessions (matches/games) along with your scores on the weekend are what pick the team. The committee has decided that they are not going to just pick players who are not committed to the team.
Maybe the guy who never practices is better than the guy who does, we dont care or know. There needs to be some way to pick the teams and this is whats been chosen and agreed upon by all the team members (at each level). We are a members club. The members pay to play at the club. The members decide how the club is run. Its now up to the members to put themselves in the best position to get picked for the team.
After years of the same old faces appearing on the same teams with very little success the club has made a conscious effort to improve team performance. This is it.The Premier Man wrote: »Just a quick one greebo, what happens if someone doesn't have the 50 (basically can't afford it).can they still make the interclub team?
The lessons are not related to the picking of the teams!0 -
The "group" aspect is that everyone is there at the same time, the tuition is individual (individual runs on Trackman for example)
Anyone is free at anytime to ask for help with some specific aspect of their game.
He will also do group coaching on specific game areas (bunkers, chipping, pitching for example) but these are typically aimed at the higher handicap groups.
Usually there are practices matches organised a few time a month (Sunday morning)
The Pro is very highly respected in the golfing world (Irish Ladies coach, Tutor to PGA at the Belfry etc) I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing
Its not a one size fits all approach at all. Its a reward for people who are willing to put in the effort to the team. The lessons are separate from this, I cant stress this enough. The practice sessions (matches/games) along with your scores on the weekend are what pick the team. The committee has decided that they are not going to just pick players who are not committed to the team.
Maybe the guy who never practices is better than the guy who does, we dont care or know. There needs to be some way to pick the teams and this is whats been chosen and agreed upon by all the team members (at each level). We are a members club. The members pay to play at the club. The members decide how the club is run. Its now up to the members to put themselves in the best position to get picked for the team.
After years of the same old faces appearing on the same teams with very little success the club has made a conscious effort to improve team performance. This is it.
The lessons are not related to the picking of the teams!
I agree with an awful lot of what you say, we have the same problem, same old faces year after year - although we don't have all that many good alternatives anyway, and those that we have, have a certain apathy towards interclub - but, as an outsider looking in who isn't familiar with the scene in your particular club, I'd hope there'd be some element of tailoring the regime depending on the level of the comp.
Re whether managers know or care if the guy who doesn't practice is better than the guy who has a great attendance record, I'd respectfully submit that the team manager should know and care.
I'm just thinking of one guy in particular I know very well who has Barton and Metro winners medals, hasn't practiced once in is life, and the idea of going to a practice session would be totally alien to him, practice matches or rounds fine, but a group hug/team get together type scenario, meh. As long as putting in the effort isn't misguided effort I guess would be my point.0 -
The "group" aspect is that everyone is there at the same time, the tuition is individual (individual runs on Trackman for example)
Anyone is free at anytime to ask for help with some specific aspect of their game.
He will also do group coaching on specific game areas (bunkers, chipping, pitching for example) but these are typically aimed at the higher handicap groups.
Usually there are practices matches organised a few time a month (Sunday morning)
The Pro is very highly respected in the golfing world (Irish Ladies coach, Tutor to PGA at the Belfry etc) I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing
That sounds fantastic to me!0 -
The "group" aspect is that everyone is there at the same time, the tuition is individual (individual runs on Trackman for example)
Anyone is free at anytime to ask for help with some specific aspect of their game.
He will also do group coaching on specific game areas (bunkers, chipping, pitching for example) but these are typically aimed at the higher handicap groups.
Usually there are practices matches organised a few time a month (Sunday morning)
The Pro is very highly respected in the golfing world (Irish Ladies coach, Tutor to PGA at the Belfry etc) I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing
Its not a one size fits all approach at all. Its a reward for people who are willing to put in the effort to the team. The lessons are separate from this, I cant stress this enough. The practice sessions (matches/games) along with your scores on the weekend are what pick the team. The committee has decided that they are not going to just pick players who are not committed to the team.
Maybe the guy who never practices is better than the guy who does, we dont care or know. There needs to be some way to pick the teams and this is whats been chosen and agreed upon by all the team members (at each level). We are a members club. The members pay to play at the club. The members decide how the club is run. Its now up to the members to put themselves in the best position to get picked for the team.
After years of the same old faces appearing on the same teams with very little success the club has made a conscious effort to improve team performance. This is it.
The lessons are not related to the picking of the teams!
Sounds like a fantastic resource.
Has the club seen benefits from this new approach in terms of results?
And has there been significant improvement in the skill/handicaps of the committed members in recent years?0 -
It only started last year and well into the year, March I think.Sounds like a fantastic resource.
Has the club seen benefits from this new approach in terms of results?
And has there been significant improvement in the skill/handicaps of the committed members in recent years?
Had a good run in the Barton Cup and some of the other Cups too.
Out of everything early this year though
Yep, I paid my €50 and couldnt make a single one this year, stupid life getting in the way!That sounds fantastic to me!I agree with an awful lot of what you say, we have the same problem, same old faces year after year - although we don't have all that many good alternatives anyway, and those that we have, have a certain apathy towards interclub - but, as an outsider looking in who isn't familiar with the scene in your particular club, I'd hope there'd be some element of tailoring the regime depending on the level of the comp.
Re whether managers know or care if the guy who doesn't practice is better than the guy who has a great attendance record, I'd respectfully submit that the team manager should know and care.
I'm just thinking of one guy in particular I know very well who has Barton and Metro winners medals, hasn't practiced once in is life, and the idea of going to a practice session would be totally alien to him, practice matches or rounds fine, but a group hug/team get together type scenario, meh. As long as putting in the effort isn't misguided effort I guess would be my point.
And thats a fair comment. But the club as a group decided to reward effort (turning up for things) ahead of ability. This was largely driven (imo) by the panel shrinking each year because less and less people would bother turning up just to get snubbed for the same old "reliables".
We want people fighting for places on our teams, not just turning up on the day and digging out the club jumper from where you left it last year.
Squad members also have rights to use one of the extra 6 holes for short game practice (it rotates every week). This is only for squad members so a nice bonus.
The organised practice sessions are outside of the lessons with the pro.
If you dont turn up for practice sessions you flat out wont make the team. Thats the promise from the committee.
Its early days but hopefully we start to see some progress.0 -
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The Premier Man wrote: »Just a quick one greebo, what happens if someone doesn't have the 50 (basically can't afford it).can they still make the interclub team?
I don't think that's an issue at Greebo's club.
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