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Giro d'Italia Stage 6 – Sassano - Montecassino 247 May 15th, km **Unmasked Spoilers**

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    #212
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    DaithiMC wrote: »
    I think you're correct about BMC but if Quintana is as "class" as quite a few people have said he probably could have done more to limit the damage today, he just rode on the wheels of climbers who were not nearly as good as he is. I'd like to see more aggression from him before I would consider him as "class".

    Personally don't want to see Evans win as he is just about the most dour sportsman I can think of in any sport.

    Quintana is not in top racing form yet according to Movistar site and anyways he is top in the long mountain stages not fast uphills


    Still trying to figure out why Nico Roche took 15mins to get to end today..cos he was held up according to TCS ......If he was standing around waiting for a bike and half his team up the road I will not be happy...


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    #213
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    I was right ...from Saxo Tinkoff site

    "Nicolas Roche also crashed and damaged his bike, which meant that he had to wait for another bike loosing 15 minutes in the GC."


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    #214
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    MPFG wrote: »
    I was right ...from Saxo Tinkoff site

    "Nicolas Roche also crashed and damaged his bike, which meant that he had to wait for another bike loosing 15 minutes in the GC."

    the perks of being a "co-leader". His indo piece tomorrow will be interesting


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    #215
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    MPFG wrote: »
    I was right ...from Saxo Tinkoff site

    "Nicolas Roche also crashed and damaged his bike, which meant that he had to wait for another bike loosing 15 minutes in the GC."
    That does seem odd. If you look 30 seconds into the crash here you can see Poljanski came down at the back of the peleton and was stopped on the island just before the roundabout. He continued and finished the stage 4.30 down, so given that he would have had to cycle past Nico to finish, why didn't he give up his bike?


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    #216
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Blowfish wrote: »
    That does seem odd. If you look 30 seconds into the crash here you can see Poljanski came down at the back of the peleton and was stopped on the island just before the roundabout. He continued and finished the stage 4.30 down, so given that he would have had to cycle past Nico to finish, why didn't he give up his bike?

    he was told not to to help the team leader


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    #217
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    With all the carnage happening the ds probably did not know who was where. They are going to miss riis tactics


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    #218
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    Tinkoff Saxo had only one team leader no matter what bo&&icks they spouted
    It was evident from the off
    And confirmed today ...

    There first press release after the speculation was all about Majka and where he was on GC now and how he survived the crash....no mention of Roche till later


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    #219
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    gordongekko wrote: »
    With all the carnage happening the ds probably did not know who was where. They are going to miss riis tactics

    they have race radio

    They could have called Petrov or the other polish rider back or Rodgers


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    #220
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    MPFG wrote: »
    they have race radio

    They could have called Petrov or the other polish rider back or Rodgers

    he had teammates ride by him. Thats enough to tell you


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    #221
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Evans is name is on this and if he is in the lead in the mountains he will just follow wheels. something he's an expert at


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    #222
    Bukman13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Bukman13


    DaithiMC wrote: »
    I think you're correct about BMC but if Quintana is as "class" as quite a few people have said he probably could have done more to limit the damage today, he just rode on the wheels of climbers who were not nearly as good as he is. I'd like to see more aggression from him before I would consider him as "class".

    Personally don't want to see Evans win as he is just about the most dour sportsman I can think of in any sport.

    I read Quintana came down and banged up his knee, so maybe that played a role in why he didn't/couldn't chase Evans down. I can't see Evans staying with Quintana in the high mountains day after day.
    MPFG wrote: »

    Still trying to figure out why Nico Roche took 15mins to get to end today..cos he was held up according to TCS ......If he was standing around waiting for a bike and half his team up the road I will not be happy...

    He came off pretty bad in the crash, compared to the likes of Majka,Uran, Pozzo. Purito lost 7 mins (yes he was injured worse than Roche but the initial time loss before getting back on the bike would have probably been similar) and almost his whole team waited for him, so its not as simple as saying "oh if Petrov waited for him he would have been ok".

    Purito got up and tried to limit the damage the best he could. He is a rider who could lose 3-5mins early in a GT and still have a chance of making the podium. Unfortunately for Roche if he loses 3-5mins on a stage like this, he won't get near his goal.

    Once it became clear he was losing minutes he just sat up, there was no point in him killing himself to come in 5mins down.

    At least this way he will be allowed into some of the breakaways and can focus on getting a stage win. If he was still only 5mins behind he wouldn't be allowed in a breakaway.


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    #223
    rckfld
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭rckfld


    Is a stage win the best for Nico now?


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    #224
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    Bukman13 wrote: »
    I read Quintana came down and banged up his knee, so maybe that played a role in why he didn't/couldn't chase Evans down. I can't see Evans staying with Quintana in the high mountains day after day.



    He came off pretty bad in the crash, compared to the likes of Majka,Uran, Pozzo. Purito lost 7 mins (yes he was injured worse than Roche but the initial time loss before getting back on the bike would have probably been similar) and almost his whole team waited for him, so its not as simple as saying "oh if Petrov waited for him he would have been ok".

    Purito got up and tried to limit the damage the best he could. He is a rider who could lose 3-5mins early in a GT and still have a chance of making the podium. Unfortunately for Roche if he loses 3-5mins on a stage like this, he won't get near his goal.

    Once it became clear he was losing minutes he just sat up, there was no point in him killing himself to come in 5mins down.
    .and you don't know how he would have gone in mountains or GC ..
    At least this way he will be allowed into some of the breakaways and can focus on getting a stage win. If he was still only 5mins behind he wouldn't be allowed in a breakaway.

    THe team said he waited for a bike ....and that is why he was lost 15mins ...pretty clear to me.....and my point is no one waited for Roche

    And to be honest you don't know what he would have done on GC if supported .......


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    #225
    Bukman13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Bukman13


    rckfld wrote: »
    Is a stage win the best for Nico now?

    Yes, he will probably target a couple a stages now, try to get in a break and get a stage win. A stage win would still be a huge deal for him, so he still has a lot to fight for.

    Hopefully he proves that he had the form the compete, and can help Majka in the mountains too.


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    #226
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Nico's bike must have been totalled. Trek tweeted earlier that Robert Kiserlovski rode the climb with a front flat tyre.... And he even went on the attack! :eek:


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    #227
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    Nico's bike must have been totalled. Trek tweeted earlier that Robert Kiserlovski rode the climb with a front flat tyre.... And he even went on the attack! :eek:

    Madness. I'd be calling the wife to collect me


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    #228
    Bukman13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Bukman13


    MPFG wrote: »
    THe team said he waited for a bike ....and that is why he was lost 15mins ...pretty clear to me.....and my point is no one waited for Roche

    And to be honest you don't know what he would have done on GC if supported .......

    He clearly wasn't waiting 15mins for a bike.

    No one knows for sure what happened so we can only make a logical guess.

    The most likely scenario for me is that he was caught up worse than the other GC guys (Majka, Uran, Pozzo, Basso, Aru), and was hurting pretty badly, it doesn't matter if half the team wait for him and pace him up, at that stage he is still going to lose minutes. He knew his Giro aspirations of a Top 5 were over so he just took his time coming into the finish.


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    #229
    MPFG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭MPFG


    Bukman13 wrote: »
    He clearly wasn't waiting 15mins for a bike.

    No one knows for sure what happened so we can only make a logical guess.

    The most likely scenario for me is that he was caught up worse than the other GC guys (Majka, Uran, Pozzo, Basso, Aru), and was hurting pretty badly, it doesn't matter if half the team wait for him and pace him up, at that stage he is still going to lose minutes. He knew his Giro aspirations of a Top 5 were over so he just took his time coming into the finish.

    I didn't say he waited 15 mins for bike ...I said team said he waited for bike .,,,,which is strange when he had teammates with bikes...

    I don't know his injuries etc but if waiting for bike cannot be too bad

    I don't want to go on with this debate as you don't see my point so we will just go round in circles

    Very disappointing day all round for loads of riders


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    #230
    letape
    Registered Users Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭letape


    Bukman13 wrote: »
    He clearly wasn't waiting 15mins for a bike.

    No one knows for sure what happened so we can only make a logical guess.

    The most likely scenario for me is that he was caught up worse than the other GC guys (Majka, Uran, Pozzo, Basso, Aru), and was hurting pretty badly, it doesn't matter if half the team wait for him and pace him up, at that stage he is still going to lose minutes. He knew his Giro aspirations of a Top 5 were over so he just took his time coming into the finish.

    Knowing Roche - there is no way "he just took his time coming into the finish"


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    #231
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    I'm just watching the Tour of California on Eurosport and the commentators Matt Stevens and Brian Smith were discussing the crash today at the Giro. Both were of the opinion that the Cadel Evans group were right to keep the tempo high after the crash.


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    #232
    dastardly00
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    Just a reminder that there are highlights on Sky Sports 3 at the moment. The programme is on until midnight.


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    #233
    happytramp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭happytramp


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    Both were of the opinion that the Cadel Evans group were right to keep the tempo high after the crash.

    I guess only they know whether it was a continued high tempo or an attack. Its a huge difference in my opinion. Either way so much carnage it wasn't simple a case of one group benefiting over the other. Their 'attack' can't be blamed for the likes of Roche losing 15min. Anyway it all depends on Quintana's form now.


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    #234
    blobbie
    Registered Users Posts: 673 ✭✭✭blobbie


    http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/05/giro-ditalia/wait-race-old-debate-reignited-massive-pileup-giro_328060


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    #235
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    roche doesnt give much away this morning

    link


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    #236
    laraghrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 663 ✭✭✭laraghrider


    I honestly don't understand all the grief this caused in the media and on twitter. It's a bike race not a gentlemens club. A crash happened and the Rosa didn't go down. Cadel was right to keep it lit, I'd have done it. If a GC contender suffered a mechanical or tacks all over the road (ala tour 2012) then fair enough but this was a straight up crash.


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    #237
    happytramp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭happytramp


    Honestly lads there's no debate. We can forget it. It's completely fine to keep the pace going after a crash. you don't have to wait. It's not cut and dry as to whether it's okay to put in a big attack and put the boot into guys who crash. I personally believe it's lousy, others may not. It's possible it just looks worse on tv because you see guys lying not moving on the side of the road, others covered in blood and nursing broken bones and then cut to guys upfront who look like they're trying to put pressure on guys in real trouble.


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    #238
    happytramp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭happytramp


    godtabh wrote: »
    roche doesnt give much away this morning

    link


    It's not like Roche to pull his punches if he feels he's been wronged. Maybe he's alright with the idea of being let of the leash and going for stage wins?


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    #239
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    happytramp wrote: »
    It's not like Roche to pull his punches if he feels he's been wronged. Maybe he's alright with the idea of being let of the leash and going for stage wins?

    Or he was told to not talk about it.

    I still remember the last time he didnt get a bike after a crash/puncture as a leader. He went bananas in his indo article .


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    #240
    Peterx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    blobbie wrote: »
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/05/giro-ditalia/wait-race-old-debate-reignited-massive-pileup-giro_328060

    Poor ould Bord Failté;

    "The peloton was roaring along at nearly 70 kph after the day’s main breakaway was reeled in. It had just started to rain. As riders pointed out last weekend, in Ireland, where it rains almost every day, roads are washed clean of oil and dust.

    Read more at http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/05/giro-ditalia/wait-race-old-debate-reignited-massive-pileup-giro_328060#Ba1i1LjbejmCD7GW.99"


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    #241
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    They just can't catch a break, can they?


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