FIRST trainging programme

Cleanman

Hi all,

Has anyone tried the FIRST training programme specifically with 5k's (or shorter) in mind? I know a few have tried it for the marathon with mixed results. From all I've learned about training (most of it in here!) is that to run faster, for a novice, running more miles itself has the single biggest impact on your results. I can see how FIRST training doesn't work for marathons as most won't have the correct base (some may I guess).

But I wonder could it work for the 5k and shorter? I have a chronic ankle injury that simply won't allow me to build up the mileage. I'm currently recovering from another breakdown of the injury and I've been doing a good bit of cross training in the last few weeks (rowing, cycling, cross trainer machine) and that has got me thinking. I believe I could get away with running 3 days a week. The alternative days would give my ankle enough time to recover (I think). Could the cross training make up for the lack of easy miles or would one be just asking for other injuries?

Apologies for my ramblings but any thoughts appreciated.

wrstan

Previous thread on this here

From my recollection the programme is designed around three pretty intense sessions a week, with easy and recovery runs substituted by non weight bearing cross training.

Some comments:
- 3 hard sessions a week should be treated with caution, especially if you're of a delicate age so you need to be experienced and fit with a strong base before diving into one of these programmes
- easy and recovery runs may actually be good for you, so there needs to be a clear rationale for subbing them out.

So these programmes may be for you if you are a super fit athlete with a susceptibility to impact related injuries . In summary: proceed with care!

opus

Bit strange quoting myself but anyway from an old thread that came back to life in Jan this year...

opus wrote: »

I wouldn't write off the FIRST plan as cr*p personally. I used it for DCM in '12 mainly as I wanted to do ease back on running for a while after making an effort for the VLM in the Spring. A friend of mine used it for the Clon marathon in Dec last year due to time constraints from having a young family.

Both of us had a similar experience in that the going got tough in the last section of the race. But having said that I managed ~3:04 having aimed for ~3:00 and he got ~3:31:30 having aimed for ~3:30. In DCM I made the silly mistake of going too fast for the first half and paid the price later on but suspect that even with better pacing I'd still have struggled to hit the three hour mark.

My own takeaway from it is that you should train for a marathon pace of faster than you plan to run on the day or else perhaps work in some extra miles of running outside of those on the plan.

Have a look at this thread on people's experiences using it for some more real-life accounts.

Cleanman

Thanks guys - I've seen some of the stuff on here about FIRST training before. But like a lot of everything in here, it's very Marathon specific. It seems to me that most have problems with the marathon because they don't have the endurance after 20 miles. Now I know a lack of endurance is going to effect one in the 5k too. But I'm just trying to come up with a way of getting in (reasonable) shape without a reoccurance of the injury and without putting myself at a significantly higher risk of a new injury!

"Preceed with care" - definitely sound advice wrstan. While I'm not at a "delicate" age yet, I have been susceptable to injury in the past. I don't see myself diving into a exact programme. Rather following the philosophy of training. i.e. One interval session, one tempo session and one LSR (with lots of cross training),easing into it and playing it by ear. The main aim for the first 3-4 months would be to simply train consistently and stay injury free.

Opus - I had not seen Terget's thread before. Really good stuff in there. It reaffirms that there are no shortcuts for miles (at any race distance) but I'd love to hear from anyone that has tried this for the shorter distances.....

bambergbike

I would guess [and yes, I am only guessing, wildly] that it depends a little bit on what you do for cross-training and how close it is to running. Something like pool running might basically count as extra running, just with less impact (and added resistance that might help with ankle rehab). You might also be able to do some plyometric stuff in water that your ankles wouldn't let you do on land. The benefits of "real" swimming, cycling or anything else that's further away from running might be more questionable if the main current objective is to knock a chunk of time off your 5k (although I wouldn't underestimate them, either, especially if the cross-training hits intensity levels that you wouldn't sustain on an easy run. Something like hill repeats on the bike.)

Cleanman

bambergbike wrote: »

I would guess [and yes, I am only guessing, wildly] that it depends a little bit on what you do for cross-training and how close it is to running. Something like pool running might basically count as extra running, just with less impact (and added resistance that might help with ankle rehab). You might also be able to do some plyometric stuff in water that your ankles wouldn't let you do on land. The benefits of "real" swimming, cycling or anything else that's further away from running might be more questionable if the main current objective is to knock a chunk of time off your 5k (although I wouldn't underestimate them, either, especially if the cross-training hits intensity levels that you wouldn't sustain on an easy run. Something like hill repeats on the bike.)

Pool running was something that came to mind. Ecoli mentioned it to me a few months ago too. It's hard going but I guess that's what you want! I've never done (or considered) any plyo's in the pool. I'll look it up!

I don't think my main aim would be to knock huge chunks off my pb but rather get back into a regeime that I enjoy. Realistically, most of the cross training would be on the road bike or machines in the gym (rowing machine, elliptical cross trainer, stationary bike etc). Getting down to the pool at least once a week would be a good shout though.

I guess it's about getting most bang for my buck - focus would have to be on the running part but the cross training can't be ignored. I think a lot of people fail with this type of training because they get lazy with the cross training part. Then again, maybe it's purely down to the lack of running!!

bambergbike

I work on the same principle myself - if it's enjoyable it'll probably stick, and if it sticks I'll make progress. And an extra cycle seems - more or less - to make up for a missed run and vice-versa. So I mix up cycling, jogging and yoga and add in a bit of swimming (or pool running/pool plyo) during the summer. Slow progress in the first three disciplines would be welcome, anything in the water is just to add balance and variety.

I didn't swim enough last summer because there were too many cold days when I wasn't masochistic enough for outdoor swimming, but now I have a wetsuit.:D When I tried it out this morning, the lady who arrived at the pool after me called me a right old coward (they're diplomatic like that, Germans :rolleyes:), but I enjoyed my half hour in the water and she only lasted ten minutes. She was already gone when I flipped over onto my back and floated for a minute in the sunshine watching a peregrine falcon soar overhead.

Cleanman

bambergbike wrote: »

I didn't swim enough last summer because there were too many cold days when I wasn't masochistic enough for outdoor swimming, but now I have a wetsuit.:D When I tried it out this morning, the lady who arrived at the pool after me called me a right old coward (they're diplomatic like that, Germans :rolleyes:), but I enjoyed my half hour in the water and she only lasted ten minutes. She was already gone when I flipped over onto my back and floated for a minute in the sunshine watching a peregrine falcon soar overhead.

Emmmmm...ok!;) We have heated indoor pools over here so I think I'll skip on swimming in the freezing cold with diplomatic Germans. I heard things were bad in Europe but gosh:D:D Thank god for the recovery and new housing bubble:p

Anyway, I agree with the first part of your post. I spent too long in my teens and twenties training hard on aspects I hated but thought it was good for me. Unless I enjoy it, realistically, I'm not going to improve at it. In saying that, the thing I enjoy most is sticking on the runners and heading out the door for a meandering easy run...so therein lies a potential stumbling block!