The Irish are obsessed with buying a house

SnakePlissken

horsesfc88 wrote: »

How so?

I put a bid in for a 2 bed in a decent area of Dublin and my mortgage will work out at 440 per month

It's in a good spot and atleast i'll be able to live life instead of living to pay a mortgage and spending my spare time cutting the grass

Even with a 30 year mortgage, 440 per month wouldn't get you much more than a property for 120,000. With Dublin property bring what it is I do believe your definition of a nice area must differ substantially from everyone else's.

kippy

horsesfc88 wrote: »

How so?

I put a bid in for a 2 bed in a decent area of Dublin and my mortgage will work out at 440 per month

It's in a good spot and atleast i'll be able to live life instead of living to pay a mortgage and spending my spare time cutting the grass

Are you suggesting that all homeowners struggle with their mortgage and cut grass all the time?

horsesfc88

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Even with a 30 year mortgage, 440 per month wouldn't get you much more than a property for 120,000. With Dublin property bring what it is I do believe your definition of a nice area must differ substantially from everyone else's.

I gave a deposit of 80k that's why i didn't have to borrow that much

Ah i know each to their own on which area they prefer but it's in a decent area not a snobby place like SCD but nice and quiet area only 6kms from Dublin City Centre

I just don't understand the mentality of getting into crippling debt to get a bigger house

If you can afford it fair enough but i would the vast majority of Ireland live to pay their mortgage and have very little left at the end of the month because of this keep up with the Jones's lifestyle

horsesfc88

kippy wrote: »

Are you suggesting that all homeowners struggle with their mortgage and cut grass all the time?

Something very bitter about you and your post's

Give it a rest

The_Morrigan

horsesfc88 wrote: »

Something very bitter about you and your post's

Give it a rest

Leave the moderation to the mods please.

newbie2013

horsesfc88 wrote: »

In Every other country in the world people have no problems living in apartments(often cheaper and in locations close to amenities ) but the Irish are obsessed with houses and will often pay most of their wages to live in one?

Why?

I'd much rather buy a nice apartment that i can easily afford and still have most my money left over at the end of the month to enjoy,travel etc than try keep up with the jones's

Why the obsession with houses ?

Let me explain something to you here. I've always dreamed about living in the country in my own house with some land etc... If that is an obsession then I'm obsessed but tbh, only simple minded people think like this. On the other end if the scale I think people are off their fcuking heads to want to live in a pokey apartment block. I can't think of anything worse than living in one, I would feel so depressed and clostaphobic that I would want to stick a rope around my knock and jump. And on another note OP, I suggest you get a real feel about what people really want to live before you post a silly thread again

horsesfc88

newbie2013 wrote: »

Let me explain something to you here. I've always dreamed about living in the country in my own house with some land etc... If that is an obsession then I'm obsessed but tbh, only simple minded people think like this. On the other end if the scale I think people are off their fcuking heads to want to live in a pokey apartment block. I can't think of anything worse than living in one, I would feel so depressed and clostaphobic that I would want to stick a rope around my knock and jump. And on another note OP, I suggest you get a real feel about what people really want to live before you post a silly thread again

Well if i was you i'd feel like topping myself even if i lived in Malibu

You miserable inbred!

Mod Note: User has been banned

Arbiter of Good Taste

What I find amusing is some people's obsession with how other people wish to live their lives and spend their own money.

The_Morrigan

newbie2013 wrote: »

Let me explain something to you here. I've always dreamed about living in the country in my own house with some land etc... If that is an obsession then I'm obsessed but tbh, only simple minded people think like this. On the other end if the scale I think people are off their fcuking heads to want to live in a pokey apartment block. I can't think of anything worse than living in one, I would feel so depressed and clostaphobic that I would want to stick a rope around my knock and jump. And on another note OP, I suggest you get a real feel about what people really want to live before you post a silly thread again

newbie2013 I would appreciate if you would refrain from personalising your posts or telling other users their threads are silly.

Dandelion6

iguana wrote: »

People like line drying clothing for numerous reasons.

This is a cultural thing too. I would never have line dried most of my clothes before moving here, and one of the biggest petty complaints I have about Ireland is that I have to do it (and in a climate totally unsuited to it) because the standard washer-dryers are so poor at drying as to be practically useless.

gaius c

horsesfc88 wrote: »

You need to read my post again

I never said anything about rent, i said i would rather BUY a nice apartment

What nice apartments?

OMD

The big problem with this type of thread is that the Irish are not obsessed with owning their own property. We are average for Europe. We buy a lot more often than Germany but a lot less than Romania. Don't have the up to date figures to hand but they have been posted on Boards numerous times (obviously not the Wikipedia figures which are nonsense)

Daithi_2014

Ive lived in apartments in a few different cities around Europe and the US.
There really isnt that much difference at all with regard to sound insulation, size for price. In Europe you can still hear every sound your neighbour makes, even worse is you can hear every sound outside too. I dont know why people think this is only the case in Dublin.

The biggest differences i noticed are
...better windows in Ireland on apartments.
Most European cities apartments have terrible windows that you can hear every sound through.

...In Ireland you dont have to bring most goods with you to move in. I dont like that at all. thats the major problem with long term here. If there was an unfurnished market, and better protection for the landlord then long term renting would be a doddle.

...You dont have to decorate the apartment in Ireland when you leave, or pay a decorating fee, before you move in.
I bet most people renting apartments in Ireland would get a huge shock when they went to rent abroad and found what they had to provide themselves in money and furniture.

The European model i think is better, but people renting really wont want to go the extra mile themselves for what they want, and thats why we have the model we have in Ireland. The tenants want to complain about it, but not to step up to what it takes to achieve the European model.

Im betting most landlords would love a watertight (equal to both sides) long term contract. They would love to rent long term - if it really meant long term for the tenant also, but it doesnt. Tenant can leave with, at most the loss of a deposit, and at best owing tens of thousands and never having to pay, whenever they want. Landlord is so much more tied to a contract. All of the risks are on the LLs side.

And I bet most landlords would love to let unfurnished, but people just dont want it. Maybe 1% of renters would love to rent unfurnished but thats not enough to jusify LLs not furnishing a property on the offchance that they get one of these tenants.

gaius c

Daithi_2014 wrote: »

Ive lived in apartments in a few different cities around Europe and the US.
There really isnt that much difference at all with regard to sound insulation, size for price. In Europe you can still hear every sound your neighbour makes, even worse is you can hear every sound outside too. I dont know why people think this is only the case in Dublin.

The biggest differences i noticed are
...better windows in Ireland on apartments.
Most European cities apartments have terrible windows that you can hear every sound through.

...In Ireland you dont have to bring most goods with you to move in. I dont like that at all. thats the major problem with long term here. If there was an unfurnished market, and better protection for the landlord then long term renting would be a doddle.

...You dont have to decorate the apartment in Ireland when you leave, or pay a decorating fee, before you move in.
I bet most people renting apartments in Ireland would get a huge shock when they went to rent abroad and found what they had to provide themselves in money and furniture.

The European model i think is better, but people renting really wont want to go the extra mile themselves for what they want, and thats why we have the model we have in Ireland. The tenants want to complain about it, but not to step up to what it takes to achieve the European model.

Im betting most landlords would love a watertight (equal to both sides) long term contract. They would love to rent long term - if it really meant long term for the tenant also, but it doesnt. Tenant can leave with, at most the loss of a deposit, and at best owing tens of thousands and never having to pay, whenever they want. Landlord is so much more tied to a contract. All of the risks are on the LLs side.

And I bet most landlords would love to let unfurnished, but people just dont want it. Maybe 1% of renters would love to rent unfurnished but thats not enough to jusify LLs not furnishing a property on the offchance that they get one of these tenants.

You forgot to mention that European apartments typically have extra storage lockup cages for items that won't fit in the apartment. In Ireland, you're lucky if you get a secure but communal bike lockup.

eclectichoney

I don't understand the anti-apartment mindset in many cases. If you are comparing a 70m 2bed apartment to a 100m 3 bed semi house, of course the house will win out, but these are very different products.

To compare in a meaningful way you would need to compare a 2 bed apartment to a 2 bed house. In many cases such houses can be 50-60m and spread over two levels with wasted space for the stairs etc. which feels a lot smaller than a 70m apartment on ione level so the 'too small' and 'lack of space' argument is not a valid one if you are comparing similar properties imo - in fact the apartment will feel and be a lot more spacious!

Mrs OBumble

Rose35 wrote: »

Explain what exactly ??? I don't know what you do in the 'plastic bowl'?

In every Irish household that I've ever visited, dishes that need hand-washing are washed in the plastic bowl. The reason for the bowl is unclear, though, because the sink has a plug too. Why not just wash them in the sink?

Then you start think about it: there is no utility room, there is no separate laundry sink. The basin in the bathroom is pretty small. There's no other bucket in sight. So where do they hand-wash clothes that need it?

Now in my house, there's a separate bucket that lives in the bathroom and luckily the shower head is flexible so it's easy enough to fill it, and I just have to bend over to get to it. But I don't see that bucket in other houses that I visit.


YMMV.

Mrs OBumble

Irrespective of whether they buy or not, I think that Irish people are obsessive with property, or at least with property rights in general. Land and money, money and land, is a major conversation topic in some circles - sometimes the only one. Who's got it, who's doing what with it, who might inherit it when someone dies, who did inherit it "unfairly" from great-uncle-whatshisname.

It even shows up in the supermarket checkout queue, where people are paranoid about using a separator to mark out their space on the conveyor belt, even when it's painfully obvious what belongs to who based on the amount of space between the piles of stuff.

And I would expect home ownership to be lower here because Ireland has a younger age-profile in it's population than many European countries, and people typically cannot buy until they are a little older and have saved a deposit. Any meaningful comparison of ownership rates needs to take account of this.

riclad

Buying a home is part of the culture,
uptil the boom before 2003,
it was possible to buy a house for 3 or 4 times the average wage.
SO almost any person working could afford to buy a house.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In every Irish household that I've ever visited, dishes that need hand-washing are washed in the plastic bowl. The reason for the bowl is unclear, though, because the sink has a plug too. Why not just wash them in the sink?

Then you start think about it: there is no utility room, there is no separate laundry sink. The basin in the bathroom is pretty small. There's no other bucket in sight. So where do they hand-wash clothes that need it?

Now in my house, there's a separate bucket that lives in the bathroom and luckily the shower head is flexible so it's easy enough to fill it, and I just have to bend over to get to it. But I don't see that bucket in other houses that I visit.


YMMV.

In fairness, I don't generally have that sort of stuff out for the world to see. By the same token I could say that Irish people never Hoover or mop their floors as I never see these things when I'm visiting other homes.

iguana

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It even shows up in the supermarket checkout queue, where people are paranoid about using a separator to mark out their space on the conveyor belt, even when it's painfully obvious what belongs to who based on the amount of space between the piles of stuff.

Well done on making the most nonsensical comment I've read this year!:pac: People put dividers between their stuff on the conveyor belt because the belt moves (the clue is in the name) and the space between the stuff disappears rather quickly. Not using the dividers is beyond inconsiderate to the checkout staff because you make their job a hell of a lot more difficult if it isn't clear where each customers shopping begins and ends. Especially in Dunnes, where the checkout operator needs to call a supervisor to remove items that have been scanned in.

Bobeagleburger

riclad wrote: »

Buying a home is part of the culture,
uptil the boom before 2003,
it was possible to buy a house for 3 or 4 times the average wage.
SO almost any person working could afford to buy a house.

It still is in certain parts of the country.

Just wouldn't suit some people (myself included).

Bobeagleburger

Originally Posted by Mrs OBumble

Irrespective of whether they buy or not, I think that Irish people are obsessive with property, or at least with property rights in general. Land and money, money and land, is a major conversation topic in some circles - sometimes the only one. Who's got it, who's doing what with it, who might inherit it when someone dies, who did inherit it "unfairly" from great-uncle-whatshisname.

Massive generalisation there and mostly made up stuff tbh

It even shows up in the supermarket checkout queue, where people are paranoid about using a separator to mark out their space on the conveyor belt, even when it's painfully obvious what belongs to who based on the amount of space between the piles of stuff.

Wtf

And I would expect home ownership to be lower here because Ireland has a younger age-profile in it's population than many European countries, and people typically cannot buy until they are a little older and have saved a deposit. Any meaningful comparison of ownership rates needs to take account of this

Most people I know buying a house these days have been saving for at least 5 years and have built up quite a decent deposit tbh.

Daithi_2014

gaius c wrote: »

You forgot to mention that European apartments typically have extra storage lockup cages for items that won't fit in the apartment. In Ireland, you're lucky if you get a secure but communal bike lockup.

And one the couple of occasions that I used them they were broken into. Not at all worth having.

doolox

I'd say that is the reason why many people do not want to rent an apartment if they can help it and want to buy their own house. Also the fact that you have to pay rent for ever until you die, often on very low income.

Most people want to have the hassle of meeting a months rent/mortgage out of the way by the they are 60.

I have seen the hassle that people have with noise, parking and rapacious demands for rate increases from greedy management companies etc and can understand why people prefer their own house.

riclad

Most apartments do not suit people with 2 or more kids,
if people have children they usually end up buying a house with a garden
for obvious reasons.

Look at many apartments ,especially in the city centre ,
there,s very little storage space,
often theres, no play area,s for children.
Maybe just a space for parking cars.

gaius c

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Irrespective of whether they buy or not, I think that Irish people are obsessive with property, or at least with property rights in general. Land and money, money and land, is a major conversation topic in some circles - sometimes the only one. Who's got it, who's doing what with it, who might inherit it when someone dies, who did inherit it "unfairly" from great-uncle-whatshisname.

It even shows up in the supermarket checkout queue, where people are paranoid about using a separator to mark out their space on the conveyor belt, even when it's painfully obvious what belongs to who based on the amount of space between the piles of stuff.

And I would expect home ownership to be lower here because Ireland has a younger age-profile in it's population than many European countries, and people typically cannot buy until they are a little older and have saved a deposit. Any meaningful comparison of ownership rates needs to take account of this.

It is a major topic alright.
The minute you move out of home, you're at the mercy of various vested interest groups who are out to extract as much money as possible from you and very often with the active assistance of the authorities.

Look at the latest wheeze to give people the biggest possible mortgages and lumber them with debt when the real solution is increase supply to meet demand. That would mean prices dropping and we can't have that really.

riclad

I don,t think in urban area,s people are obsessed with land.

Some people in rural area,s consider land very important .
Even if there,s no great economic return on it.
You reach a point when you are working, paying rent ,

you have to decide .
IS it worth my while to buy a house, apartment .
Mortgages are 20 years plus,
its easier to get a loan when you are in your twentys, or thirtys.
Otherwise you,ll be paying 20 per cent plus of your income on rent .

AT least if you buy a house for 100k,
you can work out how much it will cost you.

IF you think in terms of 20 plus years ,it can be considered an investment.

Lord Trollington

http://www.daft.ie/lettings/104-wyckham-point-wyckham-way-dundrum-dublin/1437928/

Here is a 2 bed apartment for €1600 a month in Dundrum. €1600 a month would get you a mortgage of approx €350,000.

This has a lot to do with people opting to buy a property whether its a house or an apartment over renting.

I have relatives in the States paying rent in an apartment in the Bronx NYC for around $800 a month and they would be happy to do so for the foreseeable future.

The_Conductor

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Here is a 2 bed apartment for €1600 a month in Dundrum. €1600 a month would get you a mortgage of approx €350,000.

I feel a bit mean- but 1,600 would only satisfy a mortgage of 275k at current stv rates. I get what you're saying though.

$800 for rent in the Bronx- is very fair- is it rent controlled (a lot of the properties there are- but not all). The flipside of this coin- is a complete lack of investment in the properties by the landlords- including rather lax fire escape systems (which have resulted in many recent catastrophes).

Further- is the Bronx now considered to be a desireable area? Has it been gentrified? My memories of the area (in general) were not the best.