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Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

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Comments

  • #402
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    lighterman wrote: »
    Of course I would but if you don't damage my house or car or family it is not criminal.
    If you put people in fear that they will be attacked, that is assault.


  • #403
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    I genuinely hope it comes to your door and I say that reluctantly, then you will get a dose of reality and come into the real world, there are people especially the elderly all over the country imprisoned in their own home because of thugs like these, I can tell you the sound of breaking glass to these people is pretty frighting and it's a credit to the garda that he was prepared to stand up to them, it's people with attitudes like you that create a system that tolerates them!

    If this real world involves celebrating the death of a young student for being allegedly rowdy in the vicinity of a police mans home you can keep it, i dont want any part of it.

    And a quick reminder that these old people were teenagers once themselves and likely bothered the old people of the day with their antics.


  • #404
    Dermot Illogical
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    I was agreeing with you until your 2nd point. You're making the mistake of thinking that the press are simply trotting out printing a garda version of events. The variations in the reporting alone should tell you that's not the case. The press are more than capable of making it up as they go along, inventing "sources" and printing the maddest hearsay account they can find as if it were gospel. You're doing well if they get basic geography correct.

    The official garda accounts of incidents are generally sterile and deliberately judgement-free. I don't think they've released one in this case.
    bajer101 wrote: »

    The story of events that the press are reporting is the story that has been provided to them by the Gardai. If the Indo or Times were granted interviews with the three lads in custody - and if they published those stories as fact, would you believe them? I am absolutely astounded that people are still accepting as fact anything that is released by AGS. Has Morris, Smithwick and Guerin taught you nothing? They tell fúckin lies! Dungarvan Garda station is not exactly blemish free. There is still a serious case under investigation by GSOC, AFAIK - where a young man died in custody.


  • #405
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    His respect for innocent elderly people really comes across there, doesn't it? Sure f*ck them if they are scared of young criminals trashing their cars.

    Criminals? I believe 3 were released with charge and the fourth is dead. I have a great deal of respect for the elderly as i have for ALL human life. How about you?


  • #406
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If this real world involves celebrating the death of a young student for being allegedly rowdy in the vicinity of a police mans home you can keep it, i dont want any part of it.
    There doesn't seem to be any imminent risk of you being part of the real world.

    It's laughable how you jump down the throats of people assuming that they guy was involved in criminal behaviour just because he was part of a gang that was trashing cars, throwing bottles around, assaulting a Garda and then killing himself as he fled.

    But it's ok for you to assume that the elderly people on the street were once criminals themselves?

    Absolutely laughable.


  • #407
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    lighterman wrote: »
    ive seen worse:confused:

    Keep the race to the bottom going, you'll soon be there!


  • #408
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And a quick reminder that these old people were teenagers once themselves and likely bothered the old people of the day with their antics.

    A line akin to "everybody partied" often trotted out to calm the masses strung out after the wastage of the Celtic tiger years.
    That's a line of horseshit also


  • #409
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Criminals? I believe 3 were released with charge and the fourth is dead. I have a great deal of respect for the elderly as i have for ALL human life. How about you?
    Is a file being sent to the DPP, as is usual before charges are pressed? Do you know that these guys have no criminal records?

    Funny, I don't recall you mounting such a defence of noted NON-criminal Sean Fitzpatrick.


  • #410
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    If you put people in fear that they will be attacked, that is assault.

    And how were the going to attack the garda from 500m away with a bottle mortar?


  • #411
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    And how were the going to attack the garda from 500m away with a bottle mortar?
    Well they just waited until one of them got behind him before smashing a bottle on the back of his head, risking killing him. Another fact you choose to ignore.

    (incidentally, I was correcting the guy on his knowledge of the law - I doubt the Garda ever thought he would be attacked by the gang)


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  • #412
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Is a file being sent to the DPP, as is usual before charges are pressed? Do you know that these guys have no criminal records?

    Funny, I don't recall you mounting such a defence of noted NON-criminal Sean Fitzpatrick.

    That might have something to do with you opening your account 5 minutes ago. Are you undercover?

    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty


  • #413
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty
    Except of course those elderly criminals who lived on the street, who the gang were entitled to terrorise, and the Garda thug who chased one of these poor innocents to his death.


  • #414
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Well they just waited until one of them got behind him before smashing a bottle on the back of his head, risking killing him. Another fact you choose to ignore.

    (incidentally, I was correcting the guy on his knowledge of the law - I doubt the Garda ever thought he would be attacked by the gang)

    That he was attacked and not the attacker is idle speculation at this point. I have friends in the guards, who has been in the presence of illegal activties, amongst friends or strangers fighting on the street for example and he tells me they are advised to not intervene as off duty officers as they are placing themselves in danger without their equipment and back up and so on. They maintain the power to do so but are under no obligation.

    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.


  • #415
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    That might have something to do with you opening your account 5 minutes ago. Are you undercover?

    I would defend any irish citizen of being innocent until proven guilty

    You're my hero!


  • #416
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    You're my hero!

    I think you are confusing me with jeremy clarkson.


  • #417
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.

    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.


  • #418
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them. In fact, pending more information being released we cant be sure any crime was committed at all , as the policeman may not have identified himself and may have been the aggressor when the violence occured.
    So you would prefer a society where people are free to smash other people's property, vandalise at will, and put elderly people in fear in their homes?

    You 'care' about the innocent, yeah? What about the right of innocent people not to live in fear, have their hard-earned belongings trashed, their neighbourhood vandalised, their rest disturbed?

    If the Garda had not confronted these scumbags, they would have got away with what they did, same as scumbags usually get away with it. That's the society you want to live in. I prefer one where people are held to account for their crimes, where people stand up to criminals.

    So one of them died as he tried to escape. Tough ****. There are hundreds of genuine tragedies happening every week in this country alone. I'll save my sympathy for those people - people driven to suicide by local thugs, that sort of thing. I don't celebrate his death. I just don't care.

    You, on the other hand, preoccupy yourself with the guys who commit the crimes. Perhaps you envy them, somehow?


  • #419
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,659 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No serious crime, if any, had occured by the time he chased them down and confronted them.

    No serious crime...except assault.
    The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission has begun an investigation following the death of a teenager in a suspected drowning in Co Waterford after the youth fled the scene of an earlier incident in which a senior garda was assaulted.


    GSOC named the teenager as Jamie Ducey (18) from Cluain Garbhain in Dungarvan and he was found in a stream at the Sallybrook Estate in Abbeyside area of the town having fled from an earlier incident in which a local garda officer had been assaulted.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/teenager-dies-fleeing-scene-of-garda-assault-in-co-waterford-1.1798349


  • #420
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.
    Listen Nino, it's very important that you ignore the thousands of Euros of damage that these guys likely did to the cars of the residents, otherwise people might lose sympathy for the dead man. Sure what's a few thousand euros out of their pockets anyway, aren't we all loaded these days? They'd probably only blow it on mortgage payments or food anyhow, bloody bourgeoisie.


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  • #421
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Regardless of your definition of a serious crime, they were throwing bottles at houses before they hit the gardas house, and continued to do so afterwards, despite several people being out on the street.

    They were also smashing up cars, you might not think that's serious crime, but some people need their cars for work, and replacing a window/panel costs money a lot of people don't have.

    Your source for all of the above?


  • #422
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Tony EH wrote: »
    No serious crime...except assault.



    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/teenager-dies-fleeing-scene-of-garda-assault-in-co-waterford-1.1798349

    You need to get your timeline in check. No serious crime had been committed by the time they had left the estate , as far as we, or at least i know at this stage.


  • #423
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I think you are confusing me with jeremy clarkson.

    Unlikely..... Jeremy clarkson would never be a proponent for damaging cars.......... unless they were manufactured by Rover.


  • #424
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Listen Nino, it's very important that you ignore the thousands of Euros of damage that these guys likely did to the cars of the residents, otherwise people might lose sympathy for the dead man. Sure what's a few thousand euros out of their pockets anyway, aren't we all loaded these days? They'd probably only blow it on mortgage payments or food anyhow, bloody bourgeoisie.

    Likely? You know become sub. Human and worthy of death because it is likely you caused some damage to things.


  • #425
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,659 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You need to get your timeline in check. No serious crime had been committed by the time they had left the estate , as far as we, or at least i know at this stage.

    That's not way The Times reported it.


  • #426
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Your source for all of the above?

    Eye witnesses:

    One of the houses hit belongs to Superintendent Michael Leacy. He was woken at around 12.05am yesterday to hear bottles smashing off his home.
    By this stage, other neighbours had also been targeted and were out on the roadway following the culprits.

    “Nothing even close to this has ever happened in this estate before. We don’t believe he (Supt Leacy) was targeted as they (the gang) were randomly throwing bottles at other houses before they got to his and again later down the road,” another neighbour said.

    Another resident in the estate claimed that he’d seen youths kicking one car and smashing another vehicle’s window with a bottle.

    He added that five youths and two teenage girls were “shouting and roaring” as they targeted the homes and property.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/estate-in-shock-as-teen-dies-after-garda-attacked-268991.html


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  • #427
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    You need to get your timeline in check. No serious crime had been committed by the time they had left the estate , as far as we, or at least i know at this stage.
    A sterling defence of 'not serious crime' such as vandalism, public order offences, and criminal damage.

    Maybe they should have given them an award for livening up the street?


  • #428
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Likely? You know become sub. Human and worthy of death because it is likely you caused some damage to things.
    What?

    Incidentally, I don't think he should have got the death sentence - just a year in prison, or somesuch. But he killed himself trying to evade justice. Tough sh!t.


  • #429
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    So you would prefer a society where people are free to smash other people's property, vandalise at will, and put elderly people in fear in their homes?

    You 'care' about the innocent, yeah? What about the right of innocent people not to live in fear, have their hard-earned belongings trashed, their neighbourhood vandalised, their rest disturbed?

    If the Garda had not confronted these scumbags, they would have got away with what they did, same as scumbags usually get away with it. That's the society you want to live in. I prefer one where people are held to account for their crimes, where people stand up to criminals.

    So one of them died as he tried to escape. Tough ****. There are hundreds of genuine tragedies happening every week in this country alone. I'll save my sympathy for those people - people driven to suicide by local thugs, that sort of thing. I don't celebrate his death. I just don't care.

    You, on the other hand, preoccupy yourself with the guys who commit the crimes. Perhaps you envy them, somehow?
    I prefer a society where justice prevails, everyone is innocent until proven guilty and can have their day in court and any punishment is proportional to the crime i.e. Not death for smashing bottles in a public place. I prefer a society where a human life has more value than a car.


  • #430
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Eye witnesses:

    One of the houses hit belongs to Superintendent Michael Leacy. He was woken at around 12.05am yesterday to hear bottles smashing off his home.
    By this stage, other neighbours had also been targeted and were out on the roadway following the culprits.

    “Nothing even close to this has ever happened in this estate before. We don’t believe he (Supt Leacy) was targeted as they (the gang) were randomly throwing bottles at other houses before they got to his and again later down the road,” another neighbour said.

    Another resident in the estate claimed that he’d seen youths kicking one car and smashing another vehicle’s window with a bottle.

    He added that five youths and two teenage girls were “shouting and roaring” as they targeted the homes and property.
    Again, it's important that we ignore the first-hand evidence of the victims of the gang.


  • #431
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I prefer a society where justice prevails, everyone is innocent until proven guilty and can have their day in court and any punishment is proportional to the crime i.e. Not death for smashing bottles in a public place. I prefer a society where a human life has more value than a car.
    A load of bullsh!t rhetoric. What a surprise.


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  • #432
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Again, it's important that we ignore the first-hand evidence of the victims of the gang.

    I know, now if the Garda would just reimburse the thugs for breaking their bottle with his head we put all this unpleasantness behind us.


  • #433
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    I know, now if the Garda would just reimburse the thugs for breaking their bottle with his head we put all this unpleasantness behind us.
    Well to be fair, if the thugs could make it clear to everyone on the street when it is ok with the thugs for them to leave their cars out, or have windows in their houses, or to sleep, the situation wouldn't have arisen in the first place. So the thugs do share a certain amount of culpability here.


  • #434
    rm234
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭rm234


    Don't know if it was posted or not but these vermin help up a house with a hatchet on wednesday and were out on bail. They certainly weren't just drunk ASBOs.


  • #435
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    rm234 wrote: »
    Don't know if it was posted or not but these vermin help up a house with a hatchet on wednesday and were out on bail. They certainly weren't just drunk ASBOs.

    No surprises there! It hadn't been mentioned before, but I knew it was just a matter of time before somebody would bring up their criminal history.


  • #436
    thirdtime
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭thirdtime


    Did anyone see a photo of Michael Ducey's father? It's up on Jamie's Facebook page. He has an employment repelling tattoo on his neck


  • #437
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    A load of bullsh!t rhetoric. What a surprise.
    Bull****? As in it is all false? One of the pillars of civilised society?

    Point out a single thing you disagree with that you've quoted.


  • #438
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    thirdtime wrote: »
    Did anyone see a photo of Michael Ducey's father? It's up on Jamie's Facebook page. He has an employment repelling tattoo on his neck
    So...?


  • #439
    rm234
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭rm234


    Not gunna copy the exact text either but one of his mates posted on his page reminiscing about how they used to throw stones at houses, they obviously got a kick out of doing it


  • #440
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    No surprises there! It hadn't been mentioned before, but I knew it was just a matter of time before somebody would bring up their criminal history.
    Yes, you assumed based on your own prejudices. Give yourself a pat on the back

    .
    rm234 wrote: »
    Not gunna copy the exact text either but one of his mates posted on his page reminiscing about how they used to throw stones at houses, they obviously got a kick out of doing it
    And I'll just take you on the word so.


  • #441
    thirdtime
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭thirdtime


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    So...?

    Having a tattoo on your neck = Unemployable

    No doubt Mr. Ducey would blame his circumstances on 'society' just like you Bomber it's everyone else's fault except for Ducey's.


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  • #442
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Bull****? As in it is all false? One of the pillars of civilised society?

    Point out a single thing you disagree with that you've quoted.
    That's exactly why it is rhetorical bullsh!t. It's just a load of platitudinous preaching. It has no application to the current case whatsoever. The guy wasn't killed because he smashed up some cars, he died because he was trying to escape justice; justice for p!ssing all over the basic human rights of others not to have their lives made a misery.

    If you are going to post platitudes, at least post relevant ones.


  • #443
    rm234
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭rm234


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes, you assumed based on your own prejudices. Give yourself a pat on the back

    .
    And I'll just take you on the word so.

    I'll PM you the link if you like, seeing as you are the expert


  • #444
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    That's exactly why it is rhetorical bullsh!t. It's just a load of platitudinous preaching. It has no application to the current case whatsoever. The guy wasn't killed because he smashed up some cars, he died because he was trying to escape justice; justice for p!ssing all over the basic human rights of others not to have their lives made a misery.

    If you are going to post platitudes, at least post relevant ones.
    ... so in response to the request to point out any "bull****". You can't point out a single thing that you don't actually agree with. ... Good talk:rolleyes:


  • #445
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Yes, you assumed based on your own prejudices.

    I assumed based on the fact that normal people don't destroy property, harass families, and assault people. That is the work of criminals.


  • #446
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    rm234 wrote: »
    I'll PM you the link if you like, seeing as you are the expert
    I'm no expert, but yes please do, if such a thing actually exists.


  • #447
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If this real world involves celebrating the death of a young student for being allegedly rowdy in the vicinity of a police mans home you can keep it, i dont want any part of it.

    And a quick reminder that these old people were teenagers once themselves and likely bothered the old people of the day with their antics.

    Once again brown bomber "bothering old people with their antics" means playing knick knack on a summers evening before you got called in for your tea and bed. This gang were returning from a beach party drunk/high throwing bottles at peoples houses and smashing car windows. I'm not going to let you diminish the suffering and fear of the elderly. Antics my arse. Your quite insufferable.


  • #448
    thirdtime
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭thirdtime


    brown Bomber seems like you're fighting a losing battle. Just turn your computer off


  • #449
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Eye witnesses: l
    Unnamed eyewitnesses, which are worthless as they can easily be fabricated.
    Nino Brown wrote: »
    One of the houses hit belongs to Superintendent Michael Leacy. He was woken at around 12.05am yesterday to hear bottles smashing off his home.
    If he was asleep how does he know that there was bottles smashing off his home?
    Nino Brown wrote: »
    By this stage, other neighbours had also been targeted and were out on the roadway following the culprits.
    Does this sound realistic to you? Where have they got all the empty bottles from? To have as many bottles as are implied then this would need to have been a pre-planned attack carried out in random neighbourhood for no apparent reason..

    Can you explain why these neighbours "following" these guys stopped following them? Everyone has a camera these days so where is the footage? Can you explain why these people were not assaulted by the small group?
    Nino Brown wrote: »
    “Nothing even close to this has ever happened in this estate before. We don’t believe he (Supt Leacy) was targeted as they (the gang) were randomly throwing bottles at other houses before they got to his and again later down the road,” another neighbour said.
    And presumably any reporter worth his salt would be asked to be directed to the scene of the crime and photograph it. Do we have these photos?
    Nino Brown wrote: »
    Another resident in the estate claimed that he’d seen youths kicking one car and smashing another vehicle’s window with a bottle.
    Oh, another claim of an unnamed person. Not very convincing. So where are the photos of these smashed cars?


  • #450
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    ... so in response to the request to point out any "bull****". You can't point out a single thing that you don't actually agree with. ... Good talk:rolleyes:
    So you concede that what you posted is completely irrelevant? Fair play to you.


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  • #451
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    Okay Brown Bomber, I give up.

    There was 2 possibilities:
    1. They were just scumbags with previous criminal histories out causing trouble.
    2. There is giant conspiracy to frame them including the Gardai, Ambulance Service, Coast Guard, every news paper in the country, and people on this forum.

    You're right, it has to be number 2.


This discussion has been closed.
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