Should I upgrade or totally rebuild my 4yr old i5 desktop?

vibe666

I'm just wondering how I might best bring the following a little more up to date for some casual gaming, a little video/photo editing and general usage?

Windows 8.1
Intel i5 750 @ 2.67Ghz
Corsair Hydro H60 liquid CPU cooler
MSI P55M-GD45 socket 1156 mobo
8Gb RAM (2x4gb) just generic middle of the road stuff
MSI ATI Radeon HD 6870 OC HAWK 1024MB GDDR5
2x 60gb OCZ Agility 3 SSD's in RAID0 (and yes, i know)
1x 1.5tb HDD for extra storage
Coolermaster Real Power M620 620W modular PSU
24" 16:9 1080p BenQ G2412HD LCD monitor
19" 4:3 1280x1024 IBM L191p as a secondary screen
All held together by a very old 2nd or 3rd gen Antec Sonata case that was already 2nd hand when I got it several years before the build (at least 10 years ago) and originally had a Pentium 4 in it, but if its not broke...

I'm thinking that I'll EITHER spend up to €500 on some smaller upgrades to the existing system OR alternatively I'd be happy enough to spend up to €1000-1500 over a couple of months to get something decent out of a new build with some scavenged parts that will last me another 4-5 years, but at the same time, if what I have can be given a proper new lease of life that might do me for another 2 years, I don't want to waste a lot of money on a big upgrade now.

My first thought was that the main bottleneck seems to be the GFX and to throw another identical MSI Radeon HD 6870 in it for some crossfire gaming action and leave it at that, but even though it was only (afaik) €129 when I got it in 2010, the same cards are still going for €90 + €20p&p on ebay (Which I guess means it was a good buy at the time).

Initial investigations tell me my PSU *might* be just about able to handle both of them, but at the same time, already ONE is pretty noisy compared to the rest of the system, so two is only going to be worse and the PSU *might* also be considered borderline by some and from what i've read, if you've got to upgrade your PSU just to go SLI/Crossfire, then you're spending too much on it and losing any advantage over just a newer gfx card.

I also don't know if two of them in crossfire is going to give me a decent graphical boost to make it worthwhile for gaming in more up to date games?

Another consideration that would tie in with a new GFX purchase is that I'm also (also) wondering (if I go for a new build) as an extra purchase outside of the initial budget in a couple of months time, if it might be time to either aim to move to possibly a bigger (say 34") ultra widescreen monitor OR a 3 way landscape 1080p monitor setup (or even 5 way portrait down the road?) for some more immersive widescreen gaming and just to have the extra screen real estate, or possibly (dare I say it) even look at upgrading to a single, bigger 28" 4k monitor with my existing screens as secondary?

so who wants to help me get moving on it because the money is in the bank ready to spend!

ricimaki

For just over €500, you could get a R9-280 (roughly equivalent to a 7950), an i5-4670k (or xeon e3-1230 v3) and a Z97 motherboard (lots of choice, doesn't have to be this one). You can re-use all your other parts, as they should all work.

If you did the above, and then slowly upgraded other bits over time, such as the case and monitor, you would have a very decent performing computer. If you really wanted bigger/more monitors, a R9-290 or a gtx 780 would probably be a better option, as they would be able to play newer games at higher details at 5760*1080. 2560*1080 would probably be very good on a R9-280 though.

yimrsg

I'd wait till you can group all your kitty together rather than buy piecemeal, you might find that you're after purchasing something that'll be usurped by a newer/better/cheaper piece and are in a cul de sac in terms of upgrading. Eg buying a second 6870 when you'd be better off looking at a newer single gpu.

Also try narrow down what you want regarding your displays, make sure you pick a gpu (or gpus) with sufficient power to do them justice. 6870's won't be of much use in some of the displays mentioned and 4k without a two 290x's or 780's isn't realistic.

The 290 probably is the best bang for your buck at the moment so maybe do a new build around that and pick a psu with enough power to power a second 290 down the line when prices drop and games require more power you can upgrade easily.

vibe666

I actually have the available cash to get it all now, I'm just tight and I feel like it would damage me emotionally to spend that much money in one go on PC components, even if I spent the same or even slightly more in the long run!

vibe666

okay, so i've done some digging and review watching and i've settled on the big brother of the monitor i was looking at earlier, the rather beastly LG Flatron 34UM95-P 34" 3440x1440 WideScreen Super-Wide LED Monitor

it looks awesome and i'm really not going to be left wanting a 4K monitor after sitting in front of that for a while.

BUT, a small upgrade is now out the window and i'm obviously looking to go large to make the most of the extra screen real estate.

I'm well into the R9 290x or 780 territory now I think too, so I'll need to build the rest of the system around that, which means a new case.

I'm not into big flashy lights etc. so i'm looking for a more minimalist case and the Corsair Obsidian Serie 750D seems to fit the bill without breaking the bank (the 900D seems expensive overkill and overly large).

Item|Price
Corsair Obsidian Serie 750D, eATX, ohne Netzteil|€138.41
Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX Power Supply 80PLUS Platinum 1200W|€283.06
Intel Core i5-4670K Box, LGA1150|€201.75
ASUS Z97-K, Sockel 1150, ATX|€108.57
Special item: Corsair Hydro Series H100i|€84.49
ASUS R9290X-DC2-4GD5 DirectCU II, Radeon R9 290X, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort|€495.84
Shipping|€18.99
Total|€1331.11

so if i re-use my existing memory and disks for now with a view to possibly improving them later, do you think there is still any room for any significant improvements in the price/performance of the CPU/Mobo or GFX card keeping it to more or less €1500 or so?

uberpixie

vibe666 wrote: »

improvements in the price/performance of the CPU/Mobo or GFX card keeping it to more or less €1500 or so?

Personally I would skip upgrading the cpu/motherboard until after Intel's next gen Broadwell lands, next 6 months to a year. You can easily coast on your current CPU for the next while.

GFX card should def be upgraded, upgrading the case is also not a bad idea as the Antec Sonata, while a nice case, is not really meant for very hot running parts.

vibe666

That actually kind of what planned originally.

Aside from the case and PSU , would I get away with a high end card like the R280 or R290 with my current system?

The new case and PSU should hopefully keep me going for another decade or so anyway, but if I'm looking to upgrade to a 3440x1440 monitor soon as well, then the GFX definitely needs to be pretty kick-ass to play games well at that resolution.

yimrsg

I posted a smaller 21:9 monitor in the bargain alerts thread; http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-111-LG&groupid=17&catid=1120

Not as grandiose as the one you've lined up but it's a good price if you get it for the pre-order price. I'm reluctant to suggest it though the one you picked out looks a serious bit of kit. Since you're looking for a less flashy case the Nanoxia Deep Silence One is a bit cheaper than the Corsair though price doesn't seem to be that much of an issue.

Serephucus

That 2560x1080 model is available in a few sizes. 34, 29 and 25, I think.

I'd also have a look at Nanoxia's Deep Silence One. The specs are very similar to the 750D, in terms of what it can support, but it looks closer to a Fractal Design case on the outside. I'm using one at the moment, and I can't recommend it enough. The stock fans are also probably better than those with the 750D. If there's one thing Corsair doesn't do very well, it's fans.

I'm with the others here: Only upgrade what you have to. Figure out what monitor you want first (and there's nothing stopping you from ordering a few different ones from Amazon, and returning the ones you don't like), then figure out what you need to drive it from there.

TerrorFirmer

That power supply is ridiculously overkill! A decent 500w would run that setup fine, 1200w is madness unless you have a three card setup planned in the near future. You could also shave a lump off by going for a regular 290 and overclock it, but at that resolution I'd be putting the lions share of any funds into the GPU.

Serephucus

Gah, never noticed the PSU. That'll handle three 780s. :P

vibe666

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That power supply is ridiculously overkill! A decent 500w would run that setup fine, 1200w is madness unless you have a three card setup planned in the near future. You could also shave a lump off by going for a regular 290 and overclock it, but at that resolution I'd be putting the lions share of any funds into the GPU.

I'm thinking ahead.

when i built my last system in Jan 2010, the 620W PSU i got was overkill for what I needed at the time BUT was supposed to last me my next upgrade as well, but now I don't think it'll handle even a single R920X.

EDIT: having just done a bit of google-fu, I'm starting to think that it just *might* be alright for now to drive my current system with a single R290 or 780?

I've always tended towards ATI/AMD cards (not sure why), but although either would undoubtedly do a fine job, it looks like a 780 might do a slightly better job at 3440x1440 when I get the new monitor and would also give better results down the line with a 2nd card in SLI over what I could expect with two R290's in crossfire as it seems like SLI is a better option?

I think I might even just about get away with the current case as well with a single card, because i did fit decent 3rd party fans at the time and right now it's making my feet cold with all the airflow it's pulling past my feet!

so right now, I'm thinking see if I can manage with just the new GFX card (still torn between the R290 and the 780) and then next month order the new monitor and take it from there.

I'm half thinking that if I got myself one of those articulated desk clamping monitor stands I could still get away with using my current 24" 1080p monitor sideways in portrait mode as my secondary screen.

TerrorFirmer

If its a decent psu, 620w is more than enough for a 290x or 780ti! Would need the upgrade for dual cards though.

vibe666

it's a Coolermaster Real Power M620 620W modular PSU if that says anything?

seems like it's decent enough: http://www.hwreviewlabs.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=52%3Acoolermaster-realpower-620w-review

now i just have to figure out if i have enough leads to power a new gfx card. i think i have the spare leads that came with it around here somewhere., but might be able to pick more up online maybe?

or maybe not? looks like both the R290 and the 780 require a 6-pin AND 8-pin power connectors and it looks like my current PSU only has two 6-pin ones.

is that a dealbreaker, or is there a way around that?

Seems like there's a couple of options for a 6 to 8-pin converter, either included with the cables i (may) have, or possibly included with whichever gfx card i go for.

BadCharlie

If i was you, i would only upgrade the video card. And overclock your CPU.

I have a I7 5 years old since Jan gone, and was looking into doing a full upgrade like your self. And it just does not look worth it. I have a slightly better card then your self with my 5870 & its the only thing i would upgrade at the moment.

I think i would go for either 290 or the 780 card & not the X or TI ones, and just overclock the card.

I would think your PSU would work fine.

vibe666

BadCharlie wrote: »

If i was you, i would only upgrade the video card. And overclock your CPU.

I have a I7 5 years old since Jan gone, and was looking into doing a full upgrade like your self. And it just does not look worth it. I have a slightly better card then your self with my 5870 & its the only thing i would upgrade at the moment.

I think i would go for either 290 or the 780 card & not the X or TI ones, and just overclock the card.

I would think your PSU would work fine.

the more i think about it, the more i'm coming to the same conclusions myself.

I'm not having any issues with lack of CPU or memory at the moment, so it seems like a waste to upgrade them now as it would mean a new CPU, Mobo, PSU and case at least, when I don't think I need it right at this second.

mind you, I HAVE changed my mind on the case, I'm really liking the look of the Corsair Carbide Air540.

plenty of room inside and lots of options fan wise with plenty of potential for dual gfx and maybe even some proper watercooling down the road when i get fed up of the noise!

So this is where I'm at now.

Step 1: (this week). Order a single R290 (non-X) or 780 (non-Ti) for use in my current system. Still looking for guidance on the best way forward with this.

Step 2: Either in a couple of weeks or this time next month, purchase the LG Flatron 34UM95-P 34" WideScreen Super-Wide LED Monitor and try and set it up without drooling all over it!

Step 3: (most likely when I realise I need more oomph to drive the 3440x1440 screen!) I'll look at a 2nd GFX card for SLI/Crossfire, plus the new case and PSU.

Step 4: New mobo, CPU and RAM etc. when the Devils Canyon kit finally surfaces.

Step 5: an awesome watercooling set up! (most likely just in my dreams though).

Serephucus

Why not try the monitor first? Seems that it might be one of the more subjective parts. Have you looked at BenQ's BL3200PT, by any chance? That'll probably be my next buy.

vibe666

Serephucus wrote: »

Why not try the monitor first? Seems that it might be one of the more subjective parts. Have you looked at BenQ's BL3200PT, by any chance? That'll probably be my next buy.

I like the idea of the extra width on the 34" LG 34UM95, but with my current Radeon HD 6870 graphics card the whole thing is going to fall on it's arse, so I need to take care of that first.

Okay, I'm hovering between either one of of the following two cards unless anyone has better ideas, given the following?

• It will primarily be used to drive the below 3440x1440 monitor in the coming weeks for gaming and day to day use.
• Secondly, will be joined by a second identical card in the coming months for SLI/Crossfire
• May be considering watercooling in the next 6 months.
• I have a vague interest in cryptocurrency (more of a curiosity tbh) so might be looking to start a bit of that. i know i'm not going to make any significant money, but its something that definitely interests me.

Item|Price
EVGA GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked w/ACX, 3GB DDR5, PCI-Express|€464.19
<<<OR>>>
Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X OC, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, full retail|€403.00


also, check out the monitor. seriously, look at it, it's beautiful.

Serephucus

I'd say get the monitor now, and hold out for as long as you can, then pick up the 780. Reason being that if you get an EVGA one, you can Step-Up (pay the difference) to one of the 28nm Maxwell parts, whenever they show up (late 2014 so far) as long as it's within three months of the 780 purchase.

vibe666

Serephucus wrote: »

I'd say get the monitor now, and hold out for as long as you can, then pick up the 780. Reason being that if you get an EVGA one, you can Step-Up (pay the difference) to one of the 28nm Maxwell parts, whenever they show up (late 2014 so far) as long as it's within three months of the 780 purchase.

that's not going to work though. I can't game at anything close to 3440x1440 with my 6870. on newer games it's struggling at 1080p tbh, which is why I'm here to begin with.

I'm not even sure if it supports that resolution on a single output at all.

Serephucus

Point taken. :P

I more meant you could use the full resolution of the monitor for day-to-day/work stuff, and game at 1920x1080, or something. If the card has a DisplayPort connection it should work fine.

BadCharlie

Im not sure any one video card is going to power a monitor at that size and res to your needs?

Im getting the feeling that the video cards will have to improve somewhat to be able to handle a high res monitor with high FPS in todays games. When im playing games anything under 60FPS is a pain with everything set to max (play old games my self mostly).

Me i would go for option 1. And wait for video cards to become more powerfull.

Or another option, buy Monitor that you want + a new video card. Expect to need to upgrade video card again in near future or go crossfire or Sli.

SterlingArcher

On the one hand the r290 is the better value/ performance card.

But as far as sli/crossfire , I'd want sli. Nvidia just keep ontop of the drivers.

vibe666

BadCharlie wrote: »

Im not sure any one video card is going to power a monitor at that size and res to your needs?

if it doesn't, It'll give me a good excuse to get a 2nd one sooner, rather than later.

as far as I can tell, between the 290 and 780 the 290 will do better at higher resolutions above 1080p (which is where I'm heading with the new screen) and the Sapphire R290 Tri-X is going to be quieter as well.

someone has done a nice comparison of performance at UHD for single, dual, triple and quad 290, 290X's and 780 and 780Ti's.

http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/crossfire-vs-sli-780ti-780-290x-290-x-dual-triple-quad.195818/

from what I can see, QHD (3440x1440) requires about 30% less grunt than UHD/4K displays, so I should be *okay* with a single card for now.

I think I'm settled on the Sapphire R290 Tri-X OC unless anyone thinks it's a big mistake?

Amazon have it for £320 (€393) and I have amazon prime so I can get it with free next day delivery to parcel motel which means (as it's late in the day) I should have it in hand by Wednesday.

Hardwareversand is €423 with delivery and might take a few days to arrive anyway.

vibe666

Aaaand done.

I wonder how long I can resist getting that monitor for?

Serephucus

Just saw this on [H], while reading through the BL3200PT thread there:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040844106&postcount=323

vibe666

The thing that draws me to the LG one is how wide it is. I just like the idea that it'll pretty much block out the outside world.

I know some of the hardcore monitor nerds aren't liking it, but I'm coming from a basic 24" 1080p BenQ that I bought 5 years ago (exactly 5 years tomorrow, ironically enough ) and I think it'll be such a step up for me that I won't be able to not be happy with it.

Also added a couple of extra items to my rebuild list today, so I'm on my way.

Goods Shipped:
£174.99 x 1 - BeQuiet Dark Power Pro P10 1200W '80 Plus Gold' Modular Power Supply
£99.98 x 1 - Samsung 250GB SSD 840 EVO SATA 6Gbs Basic - (MZ-7TE250BW)
£82.46 x 1 - Corsair Carbide 540 High Airflow ATX Cube Case - Black (CC-9011030-WW)
£70.79 x 1 - Corsair Hydro H105 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (CW-9060016-WW )
£20.83 x 3 - Corsair Fan, SP120 PWM Low Noise High Pressure Fan 4 pin, Dual Pack (CO-9050012-WW)

vibe666

Well, two months later and I'm almost there!

I wasn't convinced that the old motherboard was going to handle the CrossfireX config, so I went with the Z97 Deluxe in the end and the 4Ghz i7 Devil's Canyon CPU and an extra R9 290 just to be on the safe side.

I did a quick test on BF4 and I've seen up to 147fps with everything set to ultra, but it's hovering around the 100fps mark most of the time when things get busy @1080p, so I can't say fairer than that i guess!

Here's the full list of upgrades so far.

2x Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X OC 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (11227-00-40G)
1x Intel Core i7-4790K 4.00GHz (Devil's Canyon) Socket LGA1150 Processor - OEM
1x BeQuiet Dark Power Pro P10 1200W '80 Plus Gold' Modular Power Supply
1x Asus Z97 Deluxe Intel Z97 (Socket 1150) DDR3 ATX Motherboard
1x Samsung 250GB SSD 840 EVO SATA 6Gb/s Desktop Kit - (MZ-7TE250KW)
1x Corsair Carbide 540 High Airflow ATX Cube Case - Black (CC-9011030-WW)
1x Corsair Hydro H105 Extreme Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (CW-9060016-WW )
3x Corsair Fan, SP120 PWM Low Noise High Pressure Fan 4 pin, Dual Pack

Still need to choose my RAM, I've just got the 8gb of stock 1333Mhz stuff from my old box in it at the moment, but I'll find 16gb of something a bit more appropriate for the system.

if anyone has any recommendations on the best ram for overclocking i'd be very open to any input.

was thinking Corsair Dominator PLATINUM 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-19200C10 2400MHz Dual Channel Memory Kit would be a good bet considering the capabilities of the motherboard?

Then it's just the stonking great big monitor to go after that and maybe an M.2 SSD if they turn out to be significantly faster than their sata counterparts.

here's what it looks like so far. still a bit of work to do tidying fan cables up, but she's getting there.

vibe666

I got the LG Flatron 34UM95-P 34" WideScreen Super-Wide LED Monitor in the end, it's pretty big!



that's my 24" BenQ monitor to the right of it, looking decidedly small!

other than the possible future WC set up, that's the build pretty much complete anyway, i'm very happy with it.

Oh, and two Peerless Single Arm Desktop Mounts for the screens so they're on pneumatic arms clamped to the desk to free up some space under them. really sturdy too, as you can just about see in the pic, the 34" LG is sitting almost completely side on and it's taking the strain no bother.

only deviation from the original plan was going with the the G.Skill TridentX 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC3-19200C10 2400MHz Dual Channel Kit for the RAM, other than that it's just as planned more or less.

Serephucus

Sweet zombie chicken jesus that's a big monitor! Nice!

vibe666

if I had any complaints at all, it's that it will only do 60Hz @ 3440x1440 over the single displayport connector, if you use hdmi it only does 50Hz (the bumph says only 30Hz over hdmi, so hard to complain really).

wouldn't be a huge problem as it comes with both cables, except that my gfx cards have a habit of putting the displayport sockets to sleep and not waking them back up, so i either leave it running with no idle standby to keep it awake or reboot to bring it back up, or make do with 50Hz.

only a minor gripe in an otherwise very happy experience. no signs of any dead pixels despite the amount of screen to cover, and no colour bleed or anything like that either, so i'm pretty chuffed and video editing on it is a dream come true!