Smoking near kids in beer garden

darkpagandeath

ratmouse wrote: »

Well I did use the words "Tobacco free Ireland" so I don't know how you didn't get that that first time. As for the tax, well there will be long term, down the line, savings for the health sector when tobacco related illness rates decrease, as per the one of the objectives of a tobacco free society.

Your believing the propaganda of anti smoking there, obese people are by far the highest drain on the healthcare system closely followed by alcohol related e.g fights and so on not liver damage. How can you save money in a budget that loose a very large chunk of it's contributors. If everyone just magically stopped smoking today we would have no way of running a healthcare system in its current form.

ratmouse

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Your believing the propaganda of anti smoking there, obese people are by far the highest drain on the healthcare system closely followed by alcohol related e.g fights and so on not liver damage. How can you save money in a budget that loose a very large chunk of it's contributors. If everyone just magically stopped smoking today we would have no way of running a healthcare system in its current form.[/quote

I wasn't ranking smoking related illness as the highest. I'd hardly call medical and scientific statistics propaganda (perhaps a definition of "propaganda" is required). Also, I wasn't talking about the surcease of smoking. The aim is 2025, hence giving a long period to achieve.

Afroshack

lollsangel wrote: »

But its reasonable in your mind to pollute a child's lungs bcos you cant smoke 20 foot away? I have no problem with ppl smoking but dont blow it into a childs face....[/QI


Is it reasonable to place your child in the smoking/beer garden of a pub, knowing full well that people go out there to smoke? Even if I was sitting indoors and went outside specifically to have a smoke, you would have no right to tell me to get lost. If I've paid for food/drinks in a pub, and am over the age of 18 I am allowed to go and have a smoke in their smoking area, even if it interferes with your wish to have your kids in the pub.

Bipolar Joe

lollsangel wrote: »

A beer garden is a communal outside area, not specificaly a smoking area
If you read what I said rather than twisting it, I said id have no right to sit diwn beside a smoker and demand that they dont smoke, but if im perhaps in a beer garden, outside and my kids are with me, we're in an area that no one is smoking, and someone comes over sits beside us and sparks up, yes I will rip them a new one.

Pay the fuck attention. OP was in the area first. A wild family appears. Family sits next to people smoking. Mother tells them to stop.

OP did not go sit in an area with kids around and light up. Parents brought children to a place where people were smoking.

lollsangel

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Pay the fuck attention. OP was in the area first. A wild family appears. Family sits next to people smoking. Mother tells them to stop.

OP did not go sit in an area with kids around and light up. Parents brought children to a place where people were smoking.

Can you read? Seriously read what you just quoted...I said I WOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL HIM NOT TO SMOKE IF HE WAS THERE FIRST, anyway this was a reply to another post

Afroshack

lollsangel wrote: »

Can you read? Seriously read what you just quoted...I said I WOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL HIM NOT TO SMOKE IF HE WAS THERE FIRST, anyway this was a reply to another post

But you don't have the right to tell him not to smoke, even if you were there first. If you don't want to be around people smoking, sit indoors.

lollsangel

Afroshack wrote: »

But you don't have the right to tell him not to smoke, even if you were there first. If you don't want to be around people smoking, sit indoors.

Yea however most decent ppl if they are asked wont smoke beside esp kids. I have every right to ask someone not to smoke around them obviously I have no right to demand, I have no problem in someone smoking beside me. As I said in my first post a little bit of compromise goes a long long long way! Anyway im done now as repeating the same point to you over and over again is getting frankly stupid.

bumper234

lollsangel wrote: »

Can you read? Seriously read what you just quoted...I said I WOULD HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL HIM NOT TO SMOKE IF HE WAS THERE FIRST, anyway this was a reply to another post

Honestly to be fair you would have no right to comment at all, I used to smoke and if i went into a beer garden (regardless of who is there).i would light up.

Milly33

I would have politely told there no.. Sure tis their choice to sit out there and it is a beer garden..It was their choice to bring their kids there not u yours..think it was rude of them

TireeTerror

Free the fresh air!

xzanti

I'm a militant anti smoker, but a beer garden is one of the last few safe havens for smokers.. that's their turf!

The family were way out of order.

Ihatecuddles

lollsangel wrote: »

Yea however most decent ppl if they are asked wont smoke beside esp kids. I have every right to ask someone not to smoke around them obviously I have no right to demand, I have no problem in someone smoking beside me. As I said in my first post a little bit of compromise goes a long long long way! Anyway im done now as repeating the same point to you over and over again is getting frankly stupid.

You have no right to demand, but you said you'd rip into them?

You'd get laughed at.

Man In The Nip

Eugh. I can picture it now. The uppity snot nosed middle class family and the mother with auburn colored hair and Paco Rabanne sunglasses leading the verbal charge.

Suck a fat one love.

Dyr

Pwindedd wrote: »

In answer to your first question - yes many times, just not in this country,

Just not in this country? Grand so, your argument is invalid.

Stay out of my way from now on :mad:

Pwindedd

Bambi wrote: »

Just not in this country? Grand so, your argument is invalid.

Stay out of my way from now on :mad:

Seriously ? why so angry.

There are beer gardens in this country that cater for children. I've posted links. I've just not been in any of them. I just assumed they existed, which they do.

twowheelsonly

TireeTerror wrote: »

All of the people who smoke should be lined up and the kids can throw stones at them until they die a slow and painful death. Thats what smoking causes anyway, so there is no difference. BAN SMOKING EVERYWHERE.

Did you know that it's a proven statistic that 100% of non-smokers die ???

lollsangel wrote: »

A beer garden however is not just for smokers! ! Some establishments have larger beer gardens than others, some have outside areas that you can eat at. And I would feel perfectly within my rights to ask someone not to smoke around me or my kids if im in that area first...8bviously if its one of these pubs that has a tiny area that really was only converted in the ban fair enough, but I know of a few that have a nice sized beer garden, and if theres no need to smoke near a family, why would you?

Strangely enough very few of these places even had beer gardens priior to the indoor smoking ban. Most were built and designed to retain the smokers custom, not to attract families and children.

ratmouse wrote: »

Well I did use the words "Tobacco free Ireland" so I don't know how you didn't get that that first time. As for the tax, well there will be long term, down the line, savings for the health sector when tobacco related illness rates decrease, as per the one of the objectives of a tobacco free society.

The last figures I can find (2009) for Tobacco Tax income was €1.171 billion which is a fair contribution from smokers towards their own healthcare, in particular as they're all going to die early due to their smoking which in turn means they won't need healthcare in their old age!!!! That works out at €3.2 million per day BTW.
I doubt very much that the HSE spend on smokers is even close to that figure.

Shanotheslayer

lollsangel wrote: »

Yea however most decent ppl if they are asked wont smoke beside esp kids. I have every right to ask someone not to smoke around them obviously I have no right to demand, I have no problem in someone smoking beside me. As I said in my first post a little bit of compromise goes a long long long way! Anyway im done now as repeating the same point to you over and over again is getting frankly stupid.

Out of curiosity, if you were in a beer garden having food and someone was beside you and said "Sorry would you mind moving, the smell is making me sick" Would you?

Demosthenese

As a parent of 3 young kids - i'd not even venture into a beer garden as well all know its the collection point for smokers. I'd especially not go in there are ask for people to not smoke! Hilarious that they asked and that you accepted! That said, i rather like beer gardens and its sad that i can't go in there without smelling like an ashtray. I am not a fan of kids in pubs in general but it's nice to go there for some pub grub and a few pints ... its a national past time of course and i am delighted we can do it in this country with no smokers inside anymore.

Just to be clear i am not anti smokers ... just anti smoke. A pastime for the weak willed.

reddevilfan

When I was growing up in inner city Dublin, Many families brought their kids to the pub etc. I can still remember the bottles of orange we used to get and the sweets. It was a regular thing back in the 80s and 90s... Now since the Smoking ban pubs have been a dying trade and to comply with laws they built designated Smoking Areas ( For Smoking )

In the last few years the weekend Carvery & Pub food courses have boomed and kept these pubs afloat. I myself love to go to watch the match, have a drink etc and a smoke in the smoking area.

I have seen it too often where parents bring their kids for a meal etc but then because the kids get bored their sent out to the smoking area so the parents can continue enjoying themselves.

most pubs have a strict no kids policy or all kids gone by 2 to 5 which is spot on.... I dont think kids should be allowed in the Smoking area at all.....

So to some up the parents were at fault.... what where they doing in the Smoke area as its designated area... did they have a smoke and then hope that they could be at peace their alone....

Shame on them.... if it where me and I paid for my pint.... I.would of told them to go inside with their kids

EVERY SUMMER NON SMOKERS COME OUT TO THE SMOKING AREAS WITH THEIR KIDS.... AND MOAN

DO WE MOAN WHEN ITS WINTER....

Mickey H

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I never said that I knew it would happen. Making Ireland tobacco free is a completely different kettle of fish. Unless they have some way to increase tax take in other areas they will lose out massively. And i cant see a fat tax being very popular.

They have:

Petrol 437.9 Cent per litre
Diesel 435.9 Cent per litre.

Optimalprimerib

I absolutely hate seeing kids in a pub unless it is for food. There is no entertainment for them except running around causing havok. I see it as bad parenting if they are stuck in a pub for 4-5hours as the parents slowly get sozzled.

pwurple

What pub was it?

Are we talking the kind of place where its main business is selling food, and is family-friendly (high chairs available), or it is a drunken paradise?

bumper234

pwurple wrote: »

What pub was it?

Are we talking the kind of place where its main business is selling food, and is family-friendly (high chairs available), or it is a drunken paradise?

What difference would this make? Are "family friendly" pubs not also smoker friendly? Does high chairs at the dinner table inside mean no smoking allowed in the outside areas?

Medusa22

I'm quite anti-smoking but this couple had no right to ask someone to stop smoking in a beer garden. That is generally the only area that people can smoke in when they go to the pub and I wouldn't begrudge them that. I also agree that children should not be in a pub or a beer garden, if they are so worried about their children then perhaps they should take them to a more suitable environment, like a park!

Warper

You should have said no and kept on smoking in the smoking area where you were. Thats like going into a smoking area and asking people not to smoke - fcuk off

Muise...

Warper wrote: »

You should have said no and kept on smoking in the smoking area where you were. Thats like going into a smoking area and asking people not to smoke - fcuk off

Not 'like' - that's precisely what it was.

rubadub

fussyonion wrote: »

This irritates the hell out of me. You were well within your rights to smoke where you were.

The majority of pubs I go to with "smoking areas" are illegal to smoke in.

AdolfHipster

I dont even smoke, but this story would make me wanna go to my local beer garden and light up out of spite and do my best Gandalf smoking a pipe impression.

Olive8585

I don't agree that beer gardens are for smokers. They're for everyone, regardless of the fact that smoking is banned indoors. A lot of pubs around here are separating beer gardens into smoking/non smoking areas, which I think is a good idea. Smokers can smoke and people who are bothered by smoke can enjoy the sun without breathing too much of it in.

jimgoose

Children have no earthly business in pubs. One beneficial effect of the recession has been the end of the "Family Day Out", where Mr. & Mrs. Trakka-Nakka spend the day and night in the pub getting increasingly sloshed (and loud) while the Trakklets run around ankle-deep in crisp-packets out of their minds on sugar. As a middle-aged man coming to a saloon-bar in a sleepy suburb for a half-gallon of porter of an evening, that pissed me off no end. With the end of the money-for-jam they all disappeared back to their swamps with tins of Dutch Gold and Sky Sports. I suggest the good burghers in the OP do the same.

Olive8585

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if you were in a beer garden having food and someone was beside you and said "Sorry would you mind moving, the smell is making me sick" Would you?

Stupid comparison that always comes up in smoking debates. Food is just a smell. Cigarette smoke is at best an irritant and at worst dangerous. It can trigger asthma attacks and is horrible for anyone with sinus issues.

That said, if it's a beer garden where smokers are allowed to smoke freely, you shouldn't ask them to move.

Balmed Out

Im presuming this isnt a city centre bar in which case I cant see how they expect anything else but if its a rural bar or a hotel bar then I think their weird to demand it rather then moving elsewhere but that you shouldn't be lighting up upwind of the kids.

Maximus Alexander

I would have turned to them, ever so slowly, gradually revealing this facial expression:

ಠ_ಠ

blackbird98

As a smoker, I wouldn't light up beside kids, but if I'm sitting in a smoking area first, it's unreasonable to ask me to put it out or move. I would politely (at first) tell them to move elswhere.....especially at 7pm!!!

Mickey H wrote: »

They have:
Petrol 437.9 Cent per litre
Diesel 435.9 Cent per litre.

over €4 per litre!!!! :eek: what country??

Ray Palmer

A few years ago I was on the train in the smoking car. A woman and her teenage daughter sat down at the table I was at. About 20 minutes later I started my cigarette. The woman suddenly starts squirming. then turns to me and asks me to put it out.

Pointed out it was the smoking car and that was why I was there. She went on that there were no seats in the other cars and that was why she came to this car. That she sat beside me as I wasn't smoking when she came in.

She just didn't get why I would smoke if it made her uncomfortable. She eventually left but when she was going her daughter apologised and the mother flipped at her.

Nice to people can be more sensible that their parents

smileyj1987

Balmed Out wrote: »

Im presuming this isnt a city centre bar in which case I cant see how they expect anything else but if its a rural bar or a hotel bar then I think their weird to demand it rather then moving elsewhere but that you shouldn't be lighting up upwind of the kids.

It doesn't matter where the pub is . They had no right to ask the op to move . If he was smoking indoors then yes tell him to move but he wasn't indoors he \ she had no business complaining about the op smoking in a designated smoking area .

rubadub

smileyj1987 wrote: »

he wasn't indoors he \ she had no business complaining about the op smoking in a designated smoking area .

We don't know if he was in a legal smoking area. In most pubs I have been in the outdoor areas where people smoke are not legal smoking areas.

darkpagandeath

rubadub wrote: »

We don't know if he was in a legal smoking area. In most pubs I have been in the outdoor areas where people smoke are not legal smoking areas.

Ah Jesus were not getting on this debate as well... It's slightly to covered over or not far enough from an exit or window. Places are trying to comply the best way they can in most cases. Anti smokers got the smoking ban inside, yet now again it's not technically a legal smoking area ergo you cant smoke outside here either. Being overly pedantic to legislation that is effectively self policing.

dj jarvis

ratmouse wrote: »

Seriously man, you'd want to practice what you preach in terms of knowing little ot nothing about a subject. Do you have any grasp at all about how the tobacco world works?! The e cigs are not designed to wean people off regular cigarettes. They are a (for now anyway), a legal substitute for a regular cigarette that can be smoked legally in many specified places (legal term). They still release a good nicotine hit and enough to keep a user addicted. They are designed to be an attractive product, made even more so by the various flavours available. The young may be a target for these, never take up actually smoking but take up use of ecigs and be subject to enough of a nicotine release to get them and keep them hooked.

as i said , not having a clue what they are talking about - for the people that they are AIMED at , they work at stopping people smoking , if a few idiots take it up , then tough on them , but i would like to see the statistics on how many people have take up using a e cig from scratch , against the vast majority who quit while using them , and how do you prove that these young people would have not used real smokes anyway?. you cant , but please try.

your rhetoric sounds like its taken from the "killer wed "cira 1900 hand book
.

cruizer101

Havn't read through whole thread but I'm a bit surprised by some posters reactions of kids shouldn't be in a pub. Now don't get me wrong I completely agree with OP and think its ridiculous that they would ask them to stop smoking.

However, to blanket say kids don't belong in beer gardens is a bit much. What about a nice Sunday afternoon out for dinner, no reason kids shouldn't be out in the beer garden then. Even for an evening meal depending on the type of pub it is I don't really see the harm. It is on a bit of a case by case issue but to blanket say they shouldn't be there is a bit much I think.

Also want to add I don't agree with them being there while the parents wile away the afternoon drinking, I do mean simply for a meal in terms of a pub restaurant.

rubadub

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Ah Jesus were not getting on this debate as well.

I rarely hear it commented on, loads are oblivious to the fact they are smoking illegally in "beer gardens". Most bars know full well their patron are though

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Places are trying to comply the best way they can in most cases.

Dunno if that's meant to be joke, its astonishing what some of them get away with.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Being overly pedantic to legislation that is effectively self policing.

There's no pedantry about it, its just illegal, its by no means some grey area, its extremely clear.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Anti smokers got the smoking ban inside

why single out anti-smokers? most smokers I know were in full support of the ban, including myself.

Johnny Be Goode

In other countries families are encouraged to go out together, if families could go out without being berated/criticized for wanting a smoke free environment, the pubs and restaurants would fill up, pubs and restaurants would stop closing, employment would increase etc etc etc.

Pub food is cheaper and often tastier with more choice, perfect for families to enjoy a day/evening out.

Though I agree that the family should not have asked for everyone to stop smoking but rather maybe should have moved elsewhere … inside if possible etc

darkpagandeath

cruizer101 wrote: »

Havn't read through whole thread but I'm a bit surprised by some posters reactions of kids shouldn't be in a pub. Now don't get me wrong I completely agree with OP and think its ridiculous that they would ask them to stop smoking.

However, to blanket say kids don't belong in beer gardens is a bit much. What about a nice Sunday afternoon out for dinner, no reason kids shouldn't be out in the beer garden then. Even for an evening meal depending on the type of pub it is I don't really see the harm. It is on a bit of a case by case issue but to blanket say they shouldn't be there is a bit much I think.

Also want to add I don't agree with them being there while the parents wile away the afternoon drinking, I do mean simply for a meal in terms of a pub restaurant.

Could always try a Family friendly Restaurant ? Or a picnic, A Pubs primary function is the licenced sale of alcohol. Therefor not family friendly as persons under 18 cannot purchase said alcohol.

Neyite

For me its simple. I want to keep my child away from smoke and smokers. So, if I'm out with my child and want to sit for lunch, if its a smoking area, we dont sit there. If its not, we do.

Pubs, aside from being an entertainment venue aimed at adults, are boring for kids after the 5 seconds it took to inhale their bag of tayto and bottle of fanta. The kids are either pestering you, or annoying other patrons. Far better to bring them somewhere that is family friendly.

cruizer101

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Could always try a Family friendly Restaurant ? Or a picnic, A Pubs primary function is the licenced sale of alcohol. Therefor not family friendly as persons under 18 cannot purchase said alcohol.

Yeah but my point is more regarding family friendly pub/restaurants. I wouldn't necessarily say a pubs primary function is alcohol, food can be a big part of a pubs business, especially during the day, sometimes the choice of places to eat can be limited and there is no reason not to go to a pub/restaurant.

I really think it depends on the pub and I would say a lot aren't really suitable for kids, however there are many which I think are when considering them as somewhere to eat not go for a few drinks.

dutopia

On a kind of related note, I can't stand smoking at bus stops and rail platforms. Non smokers have to wait there too it can be difficult to avoid all the smokers puffing around you.

endacl

dutopia wrote: »

On a kind of related note, I can't stand smoking at bus stops and rail platforms. Non smokers have to wait there too it can be difficult to avoid all the smokers puffing around you.

Bummer.

minidazzler

While I don't necessarily agree that beer gardens are for smokers... because that insinuates they have more claim over it and the seats than anyone, I am completely cool with people smoking in them, as I am the one choosing to go to a place where they are allowed to and congregate to smoke.

Kids should NOT be in bars that don't serve full courses of food. And even if they do, they shouldn't be in bars where the parents are out to either get pissed or to stay for hours. I work in a fairly large bar, and nothing makes me quite as uncomfortable as seeing a group of people come in at 7 on a friday night for a meal with a group of kids in toe. I never serve someone if I judge them too drunk, but I know people will be drunk at a point. Kids shouldn't be exposed to that.

Vandango

diveout wrote: »

Kids should not be in beer gardens.

Amen.

WilyCoyote

I still don't get all the hysteria about second hand/third hand smoke. As usual, people go over the top and the PC mob cough up some phlegm in defence of banning (everything).
Up until the early 70s smoking was fashionable. Am not quite sure what the figures for lung cancer were then compared to now. I know just a handful of people who've died from it.
People get all sorts of diseases for all sorts of different reasons. Admittedly the breathing of an elderly smoker is laboured. But how come all smokers/secondary smokers don't succumb to lung cancer?
As a non-smoker, that gave up a 50+ a day habit about 15 years ago, I understand the nicotine buzz. Whenever smokers visit we put a few ashtrays around inside the house - not outside. I don't have any problem with inhaling what swirls through the air.
And I hate the anti-nicotine nazis that love to raise the objections. If they don't like cigarette smoke ........ stay away from places that accommodate it and STFU!