The AH Euro Election thread

fullaljackeen

Grudaire wrote: »

Given there's a real risk that Mary Fitz (FF) might get the MEP seat in Dublin its Eamonn "Tax everything" Ryan for me.

I'd hope anti establishment voters would think the same when using their preferences..

FYP.

First Up

Grudaire wrote: »

Surely you're not comparing the greens and the PDs!?

One went into power at a very bad time with FF, had a positive influence on planning, environment and equality, but were naive and failed to hold them to adequate account.

The other were an active bad influence on FF.. (which is saying something)

2007 was a "Bad Time"? We were urged to vote Bertie and the boys back in so that the party (the non-political one) could keep going. The Greens took the calculated and cynical decision that they might get a few bike lanes or whatever out of it and to hell with the rest.

You are right about the PDs though.

Grudaire

First Up wrote: »

2007 was a "Bad Time"? We were urged to vote Bertie and the boys back in so that the party (the non-political one) could keep going. The Greens took the calculated and cynical decision that they might get a few bike lanes or whatever out of it and to hell with the rest.

It turned bad pretty quick in 07.

I'm not sure it counts as cynical to actually get some policies implemented. FF had their majority, the greens decided that they might get some good stuff done as well.

Naive and wrong decision i'd agree with you

Banjo String

Eamon Gilmore will be on news talk soon with Pat Kenny.

It'll be an interesting interview.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

So as a non Labour voter you are lambasting them for doing the responsible thing in government?

Funny, 'cos as a non Labour voter, I'm congratulating them for doing the same thing.

Pity you can't do sums, because you would have a great time counting your numerous split personalities.

What Labour have done is fine by me. I despise the party and what they stand for so to see them basically dig their own grave, throw in their coffin and ask someone to fill them over is fantastic.

What I am lambasting Labour for is how they have been outmanoeuvred so easily by Fine Gael. You may argue that point, as you have attempted to, but the opinion polls don't lie. Labour are the party in government who will be taking the bulk of the backlash on Friday and that is because people are finally seeing they serve no purposes. Six of the seven times they have been in government now has been with Fine Gael.

As Tayto Lover has said, they are pretty much just an extension of the Fine Gael party so might as well just join it.

As for the split personailities, I've stated I hate Labour from the start and stuck to it. Quite oddly, you've tried to claim I was once a Labour supporter. I never have been.

You, on the other hand, have failed to admit any of Labour's shortcomings, have actually tried to praise them for being solidly outmanoeuvred by Fine Gael in government and letting down those who elected them, yet try to claim you are not a Labour supporter.

Grudaire

Here's a decent video that I think the politicians should watch given most of them don't seem to be campaigning for European issues!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_226277099&feature=iv&src_vid=BOKcTLzVoyE&v=suvXXxPSPtE

Birroc

Lemlin wrote: »

What Labour have done is fine by me.

To be fair, Joan Burton did nothing on social welfare. In fact I don't think she has ever done anything except moan.

And Breadan Howlin did nothing too. He was asked to cut out the needless allowances and the poor divil could only find one...because he is utterly utterly useless.

Lemlin

Birroc wrote: »

To be fair, Joan Burton did nothing on social welfare. In fact I don't think she has ever done anything except moan.

And Breadan Howlin did nothing too. He was asked to cut out the needless allowances and the poor divil could only find one...because he is utterly utterly useless.

That's my point. I abhor the Labour Party so their actions in government are fine by me. People now realise they are a party that serve no purpose and hopefully they will go the way of the PDs and the Greens.

Birroc

Ruairi Quinn is the only Labour minister that tried to improve his department/brief. He also tried to remove that criminal organisation in Rome from our education system which is good to see.

The other Labour ministers felt they did it best by doing nothing at all.
Gilmore annoys me more than Adams which is no mean feat.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

TheGoldenAges

I'm at college for exam season and won't be back home for the election, but in the NW Election I'd vote for Matt Carthy (SF) and a toss up for my second preference between Thomas Byrne (FF) and Ming

feargale

First Up wrote: »

The Greens took the calculated and cynical decision that they might get a few bike lanes or whatever out of it and to hell with the rest.

The Greens got a few crumbs of their policy implemented. Naive, yes, but if you equate that with cynicism I guess you weren't around to observe Irish politics in the eighties.

Birroc

The Greens weren't the worst, there was only a handful of them and they were up against the FF machine. They also had a crap leader.

feargale

Birroc wrote: »

The Greens weren't the worst, there was only a handful of them and they were up against the FF machine. They also had a crap leader.

Here there is always criticism of a small party that goes into coalition, and allegations of a weakness for mercs and perks etc., but no such criticism of the bigger party for its desire to obtain power by coalescing. In its anti-coalition era the Labour Party was excoriated by many in the media for rejecting coalition. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. But there was no such criticism of FF and FG for refusing to coalesce together. Aside from the risks to its very existence, it is desirable for a small party, especially a new party, to have experience of government, and to have in its ranks people with cabinet experience. This probably works better in continental countries which generally don't have large, monolithic parties. In that situation coalition is less problematic for parties of roughly equal size. Also, coalition has never been a dirty word in those countries with their well developed democracies,

IrishProd

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

has never had a proper job in his life.

What constitutes a "proper" job? Are you always this elitist and snobby?

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

and couldn't even get elected in a student vote at his own college.

When I was in college it was mostly the biggest tits with an inflated sense of their self-worth and delusions of grandeur, who I have ever had the misfortune to met were mostly elected onto the student unions because they came from well-off families and could splash the cash on their campaigns. Most are nothing but careerists and opportunists who think being in SU will give them an express ticket on the gravy train. They were useless and narcissistic but the people who voted them in gradually saw them for what they really were.

Some of the finest and most upstanding people I knew in college were never on the student union.

Being involved in USI or student unions would make me less likely to vote for a candidate. Gilmore was SU president in his college, says it all really.

Now back in your box.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

What Labour have done is fine by me. I despise the party and what they stand for so to see them basically dig their own grave, throw in their coffin and ask someone to fill them over is fantastic.

What I am lambasting Labour for is how they have been outmanoeuvred so easily by Fine Gael. You may argue that point, as you have attempted to, but the opinion polls don't lie. Labour are the party in government who will be taking the bulk of the backlash on Friday and that is because people are finally seeing they serve no purposes. Six of the seven times they have been in government now has been with Fine Gael.

As Tayto Lover has said, they are pretty much just an extension of the Fine Gael party so might as well just join it.

As for the split personailities, I've stated I hate Labour from the start and stuck to it. Quite oddly, you've tried to claim I was once a Labour supporter. I never have been.

You, on the other hand, have failed to admit any of Labour's shortcomings, have actually tried to praise them for being solidly outmanoeuvred by Fine Gael in government and letting down those who elected them, yet try to claim you are not a Labour supporter.

By international standards, the current Labour Party is center-left, while FG is center-right. Not that bad a combination in coalition - it could be said that Labour tempered some of the more right wing tendencies, while also driving a more liberal social agenda. Pretty well all of that turned out OK in my view.

If Labour was in opposition they would be somewhat further left on the economy but not anywhere close to the wing nuts like BB and Higgins. Some of Labour's "traditional" support has drifted away because they don't accept the realities of government - at least as it applies to Ireland today. People like that are always happier in opposition so they can stay true to their dogma without ever having to deal with the consequences. Leave them there.

Condemning Labour for "letting down those who elected them" by abandoning "socialist principles" during a Troika bailout is just silly; no government of any hue would have had any choice and Labour did the right thing - and deserve recognition for it. "Disillusioned" Labour voters who expected something else are just gullible idiots. Some of them will now vote Shinner or wing nut, again expecting some miraculous change - or just to "protest" (which is a waste of time.) Leave them at it.

These elections are interesting but not that important. The one that matters is the next General Election - and the one after that. The Shinners hope to build to a point where they can negotiate a place in government. However FG will (rightly) never go near that. SF's only realistic coalition partner is FF, so how quickly they are rehabilitated is important. I doubt the next election will be enough time but maybe the one after that.

In the meantime, who forms a government? If Labour is decimated, then they won't have the numbers to make a difference but I don't see either FF or FG entering into a Haughey style deal with a rag bag of independents. So it could be a minority government or a "grand coalition" of FG and FF.

That could be a sea change - some "republican" FFers and more leftish Labour joining with SF to create a more "radical" party. I despise SF and I think they have way too much baggage (and daft ideas) ever to be a serious runner. So it would be a "new" party. That could mean the end of Labour, but it would not be just them being subsumed into FG. There is much more transfer between Labour and FF than with FG.

End of political science treatise.

TheGoldenAges

I'd vote for this delightful fella if I could. Arrrrr

Quin_Dub

Article in the Irish Times today about one of the SF Euro candidates in Dublin..

Full Article here

It's all fairly generic stuff.. but one quote from a voter just jumped off the page for me.

Leo Oman says he will give Sinn Féin a vote. “I can’t wait to give the Government a kick” he says. He’s fuming over how they are “raiding pensions” and “hammering people with disabilities.” The water charge isn't too welcome either. But he won’t vote for Sinn Féin in a general election. “I wouldn't agree with their views.”

Ignoring the idiocy of a "Protest Vote" for a group you disagree with for a moment...This is the critical point - Euro & Local Elections don't really matter... No one really cares about who gets elected or not..

I believe this kind of attitude is being replicated all across the country

Sinn Fein (and many others that will do well in this round of voting ) have a huge amount to do before they make any real progress in General elections.

Fully explaining how they plan to pay for everything after they have cut taxes/USC , removed the Water/Household charge etc. would be a start...

mikeym

mikeym wrote: »

Labour are a disgrace they are a con.

They dont represent workers but they are more than happy to get donations from Siptu.

I bet Gilmore wont be Labour leader this time next week.

I love it when I get it right good riddance Gilmore