The AH Euro Election thread

First Up

force eleven wrote: »

The European Parliamnet is more powerful than you realise. And that is not a good thing. The establishment parties are quite happy to take the European taxpayers euro, get fat, and disappear for 5 years on a gravy train of junkets and meaningless debate about the size and angle of curvature of bananas.

They need to be shook up. We've taken enough sh1te from Europe.

Yeah - send back the sh!te. (We'll keep the money though, and the foreign investment, and the infrastructure.) But no more sh!te.

Lemlin

Phoebas wrote: »

You haven't really. You've just repeated your failure to understand the difference between employment numbers and unemploymemt numbers.

And you've just ignored my posts because IMO I have asked questions which you realise show the flaws in this claim that employment has grown by 62,000. Some of the jobs that were lost in the years leading up to 2013 are now being replaced but, as I said, when you are at the bottom the only way is up.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

And you've just ignored my posts because IMO I have asked questions which you realise show the flaws in this claim that employment has grown by 62,000. Some of the jobs that were lost in the years leading up to 2013 are now being replaced but, as I said, when you are at the bottom the only way is up.

That is probably the most pathetic post yet, and there has been some strong competition.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

That is probably the most pathetic post yet, and there has been some strong competition.

Your selective posting is pathetic. Questions were asked of you re your support of the Labour party above. I wonder why you are not as quick to post in response to those?

You need to lift your head out of the sand and realise why Labour party support has halved.

And I actually think one half of this government has performed quite well - the Fine Gael side. They haven't alienated the majority of their support like Labour have. Fine Gael didn't try to present themselves as something they weren't in the last election. Whether it was them or Fianna Fail that have power, you are always going to get the same result.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Your selective posting is pathetic. Questions were asked of you re your support of the Labour party above. I wonder why you are not as quick to post in response to those?

You need to lift your head out of the sand and realise why Labour party support has halved.

And I actually think one half of this government has performed quite well - the Fine Gael side. They haven't alienated the majority of their support like Labour have. Fine Gael didn't try to present themselves as something they weren't in the last election. Whether it was them or Fianna Fail thay have power, you are always going to get the same result.

I've told you that I don't support the Labour Party, but I acknowledge and admire how they put responsibility over ideology and popularity and helped pull the country out of a mess. I am well aware what has happened as a result and I expect they will do badly on Friday.

So 19 Labour Councillors left, along with some TD's. What about the ones who stayed - taking responsibility, instead of walking off the job? What would have happened if the whole Labour Party had walked out? It might have pleased you but do you think our international lenders and investors would have been impressed if the government collapsed Greek style? What government would have taken its place?

You quote job losses that were quite obviously the direct result of the economic collapse, especially in construction and were well on the way before this government came in, but give no credit to the current government for turning that around. Very fair and balanced.

You seem more intent on "punishing" Labour for not delivering your pipe dreams than thinking seriously about by who and how the country should be run. We have been very fortunate in the last three years to have a strong, decisive government with (by and large) competent and hard working Ministers. The fact that two parties of quite different philosophies were able to work together to effectively save the country is widely recognised and admired around Europe, in the money markets and among foreign investors.

The fact that we have some bitter little begrudgers here at home is just something we'll have to live with I guess.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

I've told you that I don't support the Labour Party, but I acknowledge and admire how they put responsibility over ideology and popularity and helped pull the country out of a mess. I am well aware what has happened as a result and I expect they will do badly on Friday.

So 19 Labour Councillors left, along with some TD's. What about the ones who stayed - taking responsibility, instead of walking off the job? What would have happened if the whole Labour Party had walked out? It might have pleased you but do you think our international lenders and investors would have been impressed if the government collapsed Greek style? What government would have taken its place?

You quote job losses that were quite obviously the direct result of the economic collapse, especially in construction and were well on the way before this government came in, but give no credit to the current government for turning that around. Very fair and balanced.

You seem more intent on "punishing" Labour for not delivering your pipe dreams than thinking seriously about by who and how the country should be run. We have been very fortunate in the last three years to have a strong, decisive government with (by and large) competent and hard working Ministers. The fact that two parties of quite different philosophies were able to work together to effectively save the country is widely recognised and admired around Europe, in the money markets and among foreign investors.

The fact that we have some bitter little begrudgers here at home is just something we'll have to live with I guess.

You don't support the Labour Party yet you later refer to "we".

I didn't expect Labour to deliver any pipe dreams. I knew exactly what would be required. Labour also did which is why they shouldn't have made promises they couldn't keep.

I respect Fine Gael because they stuck to their guns and, by the large, the decisions made benefitted their philosophies and not that of the Labour Party. You quote that the two parties were able to "work together" effectively but why is it only Labour that are bearing the brunt so badly? Because 90% of the time in decisions it was Labour and their support that got shafted.

K-9

Phoebas wrote: »

I think I've reached the end of my abilities to explain the simple fact that there were 62000 more people in employment at the end of 2013 than there were at the start.

It has nothing to do with emigration and it is a net increase in employment - the number of jobs actually created is even higher because the net increase includes replacing jobs that were lost in the same period.

I'm really beginning to think that some people love bad news so much that they'll try any kind of mental trick to explain away good news.

Just as bad as swallowing Government spin.

A lot of these jobs are jobbridge/seasonal/tourism/agriculture related. 62k is impressive but when you drill down into the figures, it isn't all that great at all.

ebbsy

Im voting for the one with the biggest jabs.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

You don't support the Labour Party yet you later refer to "we".

I didn't expect Labour to deliver any pipe dreams. I knew exactly what would be required. Labour also did which is why they shouldn't have made promises they couldn't keep.

I respect Fine Gael because they stuck to their guns and, by the large, the decisions made benefitted their philosophies and not that of the Labour Party. You quote that the two parties were able to "work together" effectively but why is it only Labour that are bearing the brunt so badly? Because 90% of the time in decisions it was Labour and their support that got shafted.

Jaysus.
We = us, the people of Ireland.
So you knew what had to be done, but voted for Labour believing they would do something else and now you want to punish them for doing what had to be done? That makes sense.
Only Labour supporters got shafted? That's a real cracker; would be intrigued to see that explained.
The only reason Labour is "bearing the brunt" is because of people like you.

First Up

ebbsy wrote: »

Im voting for the one with the biggest jabs.

Makes a lot more sense than some of the arguments here.

cletus van damme

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan (Green) in Dublin constituency.

eamon ryan for me number 1.

unsure of of who would get my number 2 no real contender.
maybe childers cos she did stick it to Gilmore and left the party early.

But I tell you this brian hayes wouldn't get the steam of my piss so I can rule him out.


If I was in Ming's area I'd vote for him.

SafeSurfer

First Up wrote: »

Jaysus.
The only reason Labour is "bearing the brunt" is because of people like you.

No the only reason Labour will be punished on Friday is because of their failure to fulfill pre election promises. How can people believe what they say before this election? They don't. They have lost all credibility.

First Up

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No the only reason Labour will be punished on Friday is because of their failure to fulfill pre election promises. How can people believe what they say before this election? They don't. They have lost all credibility.

So this time you will vote for another lot who will make promises that they won't be able to keep either.

OK. What happens then?

PopePalpatine

I'll confess - if I could have voted in 2011 (I was coming up to my 17th birthday then), it would have been for Labour, as their purported ideals were close to mine. I was hoping they'd be some sort of counterweight to Fine Gael.

I might vote for them in the Euro elections, as their bloc - the Party of European Socialists - opposed ACTA. I wouldn't consider voting for them in the local elections.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

Jaysus.
We = us, the people of Ireland.
So you knew what had to be done, but voted for Labour believing they would do something else and now you want to punish them for doing what had to be done? That makes sense.
Only Labour supporters got shafted? That's a real cracker; would be intrigued to see that explained.
The only reason Labour is "bearing the brunt" is because of people like you.

I never voted for Labour. I've always had a problem with individuals who claim to represent the working class yet take home salaries of 90k or so a year plus expenses. It's hypocritical to me.

Where did I say "only Labour supporters got shafted"? I said " Because 90% of the time in decisions it was Labour and their support that got shafted". Of course decisions effected all but the decisions made were ones which effected Labour supporters the most.

Look at child benefit. Do you think the cut effected Fianna Fail/Fine Gael supporters more or Labour supporters more? The truth is Fine Gael supporters would have been worse effected by it being means tested.

pajor

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not good - Not one of the current Irish MEP's was better than 50% aligned with my choices....

A few Eastern Europeans made it into the 70's though....

I think it says something about them, rather than about you. :pac:

My top match was a Croatian.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

I never voted for Labour. I've always had a problem with individuals who claim to represent the working class yet take home salaries of 90k or so a year plus expenses. It's hypocritical to me.

Where did I say "only Labour supporters got shafted"? I said " Because 90% of the time in decisions it was Labour and their support that got shafted". Of course decisions effected all but the decisions made were ones which effected Labour supporters the most.

Look at child benefit. Do you think the cut effected Fianna Fail/Fine Gael supporters more or Labour supporters more?

The truth is Fine Gael supporters would have been worse effected by it being means tested.

If I decipher your point correctly, you are equating voting preferences with income levels, with Labour supporters being at the lower end of the scale. Highly debatable, but why isolate child benefit? Why not factor in income tax and income levies, which hit higher earners the most? Or shareholders losses? Lots of FG/FF voters there. Or property crashes and negative equity - hitting middle classes (not the biggest category of Labour voters)?

If you are saying that tough economic times hit the most vulnerable hardest -yes you are right. That is what being vulnerable means.

First Up

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'll confess - if I could have voted in 2011 (I was coming up to my 17th birthday then), it would have been for Labour, as their purported ideals were close to mine. I was hoping they'd be some sort of counterweight to Fine Gael.

I might vote for them in the Euro elections, as their bloc - the Party of European Socialists - opposed ACTA. I wouldn't consider voting for them in the local elections.

You don't like the Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement?

My name is URL

First Up wrote: »

You don't like the Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement?

You do? Any explanation as to why... considering that it was discussed and rejected by 5 European Parliamentary Committees?

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/nl/news-room/content/20120529IPR45936/html/ACTA-now-rejected-by-four-EP-committees

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/jun/21/acta-europe-vote-against

PopePalpatine

First Up wrote: »

You don't like the Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement?

Nope, because it would have fucked the Internet HARD.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

If I decipher your point correctly, you are equating voting preferences with income levels, with Labour supporters being at the lower end of the scale. Highly debatable, but why isolate child benefit? Why not factor in income tax and income levies, which hit higher earners the most? Or shareholders losses? Lots of FG/FF voters there. Or property crashes and negative equity - hitting middle classes (not the biggest category of Labour voters)?

If you are saying that tough economic times hit the most vulnerable hardest -yes you are right. That is what being vulnerable means.

Labour/FG government had no part in decision making re the majority of items you have listed there - shareholders losses, property crashes, negative equity. The decisions they have made hit low income Labour supporters far more than high income FG/FF supporters. That is why Labour are going to be obliterated on Friday and in the next general election.

For what other reason do you think their support has fallen so much?

force eleven

First Up wrote: »

Yeah - send back the sh!te. (We'll keep the money though, and the foreign investment, and the infrastructure.) But no more sh!te.

Most Foreign Investment comes from US & UK. UK is hardly pro-Brussels is it? And as for infrastructure, that dried up long ago, and we've paid for that big time.

They monolith ECB - which is the strong arm of the EU monster, sucked us dry, and continue to do so. There isn't an awful lot good for us, if you study it. Freer trade, freer travel, yeah, this is good, but so much else is very bad.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Labour/FG government had no part in decision making re the majority of items you have listed there - shareholders losses, property crashes, negative equity. The decisions they have made hit low income Labour supporters far more than high income FG/FF supporters. That is why Labour are going to be obliterated on Friday and in the next general election.

For what other reason do you think their support has fallen so much?

On the last point, because a large part of their electoral base is clueless about economic reality.

You conveniently omitted income tax and income levies, which dwarf any Child Benefit cuts by a factor of thousands.

Banjo String

First Up wrote: »

On the last point, because a large part of their electoral base is clueless about economic reality.

You conveniently omitted income tax and income levies, which dwarf any Child Benefit cuts by a factor of thousands.

Whoa.

SF voters are 'stupid' and Labour voters (or a large part of them) are clueless when it comes to economics.

Way to alienate yourself.

You truly are the gift that just keeps giving.

First Up

force eleven wrote: »

Most Foreign Investment comes from US & UK. UK is hardly pro-Brussels is it? And as for infrastructure, that dried up long ago, and we've paid for that big time.

They monolith ECB - which is the strong arm of the EU monster, sucked us dry, and continue to do so. There isn't an awful lot good for us, if you study it. Freer trade, freer travel, yeah, this is good, but so much else is very bad.

Yeah and only gave us €150 billion in return, on top of the farm subsidies and the rest.

Foreign investment comes from many places and a large part of it because of our membership of the EU.

Last time I looked there was quite a bit of new infrastructure still being built, and a lot more planned.

First Up

Banjo String wrote: »

Whoa.

SF voters are 'stupid' and Labour voters (or a large part of them) are clueless when it comes to economics.

Way to alienate yourself.

You truly are the gift that just keeps giving.

If the cap fits pal. And I think I was already pretty alienated in this whinge and gripe fest.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

On the last point, because a large part of their electoral base is clueless about economic reality.

You conveniently omitted income tax and income levies, which dwarf any Child Benefit cuts by a factor of thousands.

And there are plenty that argue more tax and levies should be incurred by the higher earners and less by the low and middle income earners. It's the Labour supporters who are losing the highest percentage of their income to the income and tax levies. It's all relative.

That's why the party is being obliterated. Fine Gael got their tactics right. Labour have been hugely outmanoeuvred in government and I'm no fan of Fine Gael either.

My name is URL

First Up wrote: »

If the cap fits pal. And I think I was already pretty alienated in this whinge and gripe fest.

Are you going to answer my question regarding ACTA? Why do you support it when 5 leading European Parliamentary Committees rejected it?

You've a nerve to be calling others clueless. It seems that just because you vote for an established party, you somehow believe that elevates you above others in terms of intellect.

I don't think you have any idea, personally.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

And there are plenty that argue more tax and levies should be incurred by the higher earners and less by the low and middle income earners.

It's the Labour supporters who are losing the highest percentage of their income to the income and tax levies. It's all relative.

That's why the party is being obliterated. Fine Gael got their tactics right. Labour have been hugely outmanoeuvred in government and I'm no fan of Fine Gael either.

Yes, argued by those ignorant of the facts - which are that the top 1% pay 18% of all Income tax, USC and PRSI and the top 20% pay 71%.

But if you think that isn't enough, there are people you can vote for.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

Yes, argued by those ignorant of the facts - which are that the top 1% pay 18% of all Income tax, USC and PRSI and the top 20% pay 71%.

But if you think that isn't enough, there are people you can vote for.

Take your ordinary middle to high income Fine Gael supporter and your ordinary low to middle income Labour supporter. Which is feeling the greater hit of the income levies and taxes?