The AH Euro Election thread

First Up

My name is URL wrote: »

Are you going to answer my question regarding ACTA? Why do you support it when 5 leading European Parliamentary Committees rejected it?

You've a nerve to be calling others clueless. It seems that just because you vote for an established party, you somehow believe that elevates you above others in terms of intellect.

I don't think you have any idea, personally.

The ACTA has nothing to do with this discussion (at least the bit I'm participating in) and I have not said if I support it or not.

I don't vote for parties; I vote for policies. And I prefer sensible. realistic ones to populist nonsense.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Take your ordinary middle to high income Fine Gael supporter and your ordinary low to middle income Labour supporter. Which is feeling the greater hit of the income levies and taxes?

The former, as the numbers I posted show very clearly.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

The former, as the numbers I posted show very clearly.

You posted information about the top 20%. I'm asking about the other 80% here which make up the bulk of the electorate. I asked you to take "ordinary" voters. Not those who are millionaires.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

You posted information about the top 20%. I'm asking about the other 80% here which make up the bulk of the electorate.

And who between them pay a whopping 29% of Income tax, USC and PRSI.

Should I use a bigger font?

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

And who between them pay a whopping 29% of Income tax, USC and PRSI.

Should I use a bigger font?

Yes, so 80% are paying 29% of their income tax, USC and PRSI. So do you not think this 29% is hitting low to middle income families worse, who support Labour, than the middle to high income families, who support Fine Gael?

The Labour supporters are the families who can't afford that 29% and that is why the party has alienated its support.

Of course, you're not a Labour supporter

Personally, I'm delighted. Hopefully the party is wiped from memory in these local and the next General Election. I've always hated what they claim to stand for.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes, so 80% are paying 29% of their income tax, USC and PRSI. So do you not think this 29% is hitting low to middle income families worse, who support Labour, than the middle to high income families, who support Fine Gael?

The Labour supporters are the families who can't afford that 29% and that is why the party has alienated its support.

Of course, you're not a Labour supporter

Yesterday you couldn't grasp the difference between employment numbers and unemployment. Today isn't any better.

I'll try to explain it again - slowly:

The top 1% of earners pay 18% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected by government.

The top 20% of earners pay 71% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected by the State.

The other 80% of earners contribute 29% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected.

The 80% pay an average of about 10% of their income in tax. The top 1% pay 38%.

Is that clear enough for you?

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

Yesterday you couldn't grasp the difference between employment numbers and unemployment. Today isn't any better.

I'll try to explain it again - slowly:

The top 1% of earners pay 18% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected by government.

The top 20% of earners pay 71% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected by the State.

The other 80% of earners contribute 29% of ALL the income tax, USC and PRSI collected.

The 80% pay an average of about 10% of their income in tax. The top 1% pay 38%.

Is that clear enough for you?

And yesterday you tried to represent the employment rate for one year as indictative of the three years that this government have now been in power.

You really are quite a find. Condescending as well as ignorant. I do love your type though - the type that feels by voting for Labour they are some how helping those less fortunate. Of course, you'll probably tell us yet again that you are not a Labour supporter :rolleyes:

It was clear from the start. Do you not see my point, you have a middle to high income Fine Gael supporter on €40,000 salary. You then have a middle to low income Labour supporter on €20,000.

Is the proportion that both are paying in income taxes, levies etc. effecting the Fine Gael supporter or the Labour supporter more? That's the crux of the point.

The Fine Gael supporter may pay more in monetary terms but they would generally have more disposable income than your average Labour supporter so they can afford to pay more. Yet this government has hit your average Labour supporter at the same rate as your average Fine Gael supporter.

That's why Labour are being obliterated and Fine Gael are not.

That you put Labour's collapse down to education alone is quite amazing. Were the 29 Labour councillors who left the party all intellectually challenged then?

WilyCoyote

Lemlin wrote: »

.......................................................
..........................................................................................
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Were the 29 Labour councillors who left the party all intellectually challenged then?

Well, after all, they did join Labour

Galwayguy35

I might be eating my words come saturday but I don't think Ming will be elected and if he was I don't think he would be much good.

He is good for local politics but in Europe he would be just a voice in the stands shouting no all the time.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

And yesterday you tried to represent the employment rate for one year as indictative of the three years that this government have now been in power.

You really are quite a find. Condescending as well as ignorant. I do love your type though - the type that feels by voting for Labour they are some how helping those less fortunate. Of course, you'll probably tell us yet again that you are not a Labour supporter :rolleyes:

It was clear from the start. Do you not see my point, you have a middle to high income Fine Gael supporter on €40,000 salary. You then have a middle to low income Labour supporter on €20,000.

Is the proportion that both are paying in income taxes, levies etc. effecting the Fine Gael supporter or the Labour supporter more? That's the crux of the point.

The Fine Gael supporter may pay more in monetary terms but they would generally have more disposable income than your average Labour supporter so they can afford to pay more. Yet this government has hit your average Labour supporter at the same rate as your average Fine Gael supporter.

That's why Labour are being obliterated and Fine Gael are not.

That you put Labour's collapse down to education alone is quite amazing. Were the 29 Labour councillors who left the party all intellectually challenged then?

Sweet mother of Jaysus.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

Sweet mother of Jaysus.

Yes, I also find it amazing that you still haven't admitted to any of your party's shortcomings and attempt to put them being obliterated down to the education of their voters.

tayto lover

I think the present "Labour" party should disband and join FG.
They have left the old Labour principles and aims far behind.
In fact they are no longer the Labour party many had pride in.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes, I also find it amazing that you still haven't admitted to any of your party's shortcomings and attempt to put them being obliterated down to the education of their voters.

As this exchange has shown in glorious technicolor.

tayto lover

First Up wrote: »

As this exchange has shown in glorious technicolor.

There will be plenty of technicolour and fireworks in Labour very soon thankfully so enjoy.:D

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Phoebas

Phoebas wrote: »

http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2014pressreleases/pressreleasequarterlynationalhouseholdsurveyquarter42013/

Received a reply from CSO (pasted below).

The following breakdown provides details of the classification of participants on JobBridge in the Quarterly National Household Survey (QNHS).

******************************************************************
Participants on the following Activation Programmes would be classified as employed (ILO) in the QNHS.

Back to Work Schemes

Back to Work allowance scheme - Employee strand
Back to Work Enterprise allowance scheme -self employed strand
Short-term Enterprise Allowance

Other Activation Programmes

DSP Part-time Job Incentive
TUS - Community Work Placement Initiative (2011)
JobBridge (2011)

Community Employment Schemes

******************************************************************


Participants in FAS full time training for the unemployed would be classified as unemployed (ILO) in the QNHS.


*******************************************************************
Back to Education courses

Those on Back to Education courses may engage in employment. Depending on their labour force situation they are classified based on the ILO labour force definition used in the QNHS. See page 33 of the QNHS release at the link below..

Vocational Training Opportunities Scheme (VTOS)
Back to Education Allowance (BTEA)


http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/labourmarket/2013/qnhs_q42013.pdf

tayto lover

Talk about manipulating figures.

Meathlass

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Really, say it's not so! I'd my Saturday politics overdose all planned out

Meathlass

Anyone any good links to see how sitting MEPs voted on issues this term and what their attendance records were?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Phoebas

K-9 wrote: »

A lot of these jobs are jobbridge/seasonal/tourism/agriculture related. 62k is impressive but when you drill down into the figures, it isn't all that great at all.

jobbridge: No. The figures are year on year (2013). Jobsbridge has been running since 2011, so there has been negligible change in the number of jobsbridge positions from the start of 2013 to the end of 2013.

seasonal: No. The figures are year on year (2013). They compare the exact same time of the year - no seasonal influence.

tourism: Of course some of them could be in tourism. A tourism job is a job, right?

agriculture: Yep. Agriculture seems to be doing quite well - exactly one of the areas the Ireland should be looking for growth.

K-9 wrote: »

Just as bad as swallowing Government spin.

A fair bit of spin from you there tbh.

First Up

tayto lover wrote: »

There will be plenty of technicolour and fireworks in Labour very soon thankfully so enjoy.:D

And who will you burning at the stake next I wonder? The Shinners when they can't wave a magic wand either?

Fortunately for what's left of the loony left, they won't get near power so they can pontificate and be outraged to their heart's content, without fear of ever having to be responsible for anything.

So you can love them forever.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

As this exchange has shown in glorious technicolor.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. You're the only Labour supporter I can see posting here.

Phoebas

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Received a reply from CSO (pasted below).

The following breakdown provides details of the classification of participants on JobBridge in the Quarterly National Household Survey (QNHS).
[...]

And presumably all of these schemes included in the QNHS employment figures at the end of 2013 were also included at the end of 2012.
So for calculating employment growth, unless these schemes were massively expanded in the year, their impact is negligible.

DubVelo

Phoebas wrote: »

And presumably all of these schemes included in the QNHS employment figures at the end of 2013 were also included at the end of 2012.
So for calculating employment growth, unless these schemes were massively expanded in the year, their impact is negligible.

It's still pretty shocking that JobBridge should be classed as 'employment'.

Phuc me... I don't know why I'm even surprised but I'm actually shocked.

Lemlin

First Up wrote: »

And who will you burning at the stake next I wonder? The Shinners when they can't wave a magic wand either?

Fortunately for what's left of the loony left, they won't get near power so they can pontificate and be outraged to their heart's content, without fear of ever having to be responsible for anything.

So you can love them forever.

Who says people who don't like Labour are supporters of the left?

I'll be voting for Fine Gael or Fianna Fail. Makes no difference which you vote for as, despite all the tribal history, both are now effectively the same. At least you know what you're getting and they'll continue to trample on the less fortunate but not try to disguise it like the current Labour party do.

First Up

Lemlin wrote: »

Who says people who don't like Labour are supporters of the left?

I'll be voting for Fine Gael or Fianna Fail. Makes no difference which you vote for as, despite all the tribal history, both are now effectively the same. At least you know what you're getting and they'll continue to trample on the less fortunate but not try to disguise it like the current Labour party do.

So as a non Labour voter you are lambasting them for doing the responsible thing in government?

Funny, 'cos as a non Labour voter, I'm congratulating them for doing the same thing.

Pity you can't do sums, because you would have a great time counting your numerous split personalities.

DubVelo

Lemlin wrote: »

Who says people who don't like Labour are supporters of the left?

I'll be voting for Fine Gael or Fianna Fail. Makes no difference which you vote for as, despite all the tribal history, both are now effectively the same. At least you know what you're getting and they'll continue to trample on the less fortunate but not try to disguise it like the current Labour party do.

Oh sweet Jeebus! Please just go spoil your vote. Or better yet, stay home.

Demonique

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=749507691768229&set=a.148461985206139.40836.116110171774654&type=1

Lorraine Higgins' campaign van parks in disabled parking spot