Season 4 Episode 7 "Mockingbird": *HAVE* read the books

Jelle1880

How amazing was that 'Thank you' from Arya :pac:

Son0vagun

Will it be the last we see of Bronn?

PopePalpatine

Blay wrote: »

The best option for those prisoners was to pick up the flail that was on the ground and bury it in the side of one of the Gold Cloaks' head and run:pac:

I don't think they were in much of a state to run. :pac:

Witcher

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I don't think they were in much of a state to run. :pac:

**** it sure take a swing anyway..they're going to die either way:pac:

Kunkka

Great episode. Really enjoyed it.

Hyzepher

Some people just love ruining it for the non book readers. That thread is a minefield.

This was a great episode. I actually quite liked the small deviations from the book - especially the Pod and Breinne changes. I suppose it accelerates her meeting with LS - no need to pad out her search and include the Quiet Isle or her travelling party.

Mousewar

Dinklage did great last week with a lot of heavy dialogue. He did even better this week with none - his reactions to Oberyn's story were superb.

Gbear

bopper wrote: »

I took the scene where the Hound gives the wounded man the gift of mercy as a strong indication Arya will be doing the same for him later on. Especially as he was almost showing her how it's done. Plus there was another mention from the Hound of Arya's list of names. I would wager the Hound saying something along the lines of "now you've another name you can mark of your list" just before Arya stabs him in the heart.

I think that might be a bit of misdirection. It's entirely possible that the Hound will do something to piss Arya off again and she'll leave him. Or she mightn't have the bottle.

If they do go for her mercy killing him though it could be one of the most poignant moments in the entire series and I wouldn't necessarily write it off just because it doesn't fit with the books - after all, it's possible that the grave digger isn't Sandor or if he is, it's perfectly reasonable that he won't appear in the series again and it's left intentionally vague.

Littlefinger kissing Sansa was hella creepy. I know the actress is 18 or whatever now but her character isn't and while Gillen's accent is bollocks the physical acting he does - body language, expression and so on - nails it.

jebidiah

I don't think the your sister bit was to intentionally annoy readers. Probably closer to what another poster said. "only Cat" would make sense to us, but it might have left some people confused. I would have preferred it though. Would have had a better flow!

Gbear

jebidiah wrote: »

I don't think the your sister bit was to intentionally annoy readers. Probably closer to what another poster said. "only Cat" would make sense to us, but it might have left some people confused. I would have preferred it though. Would have had a better flow!

I think that's really selling show-watchers short.

Lysa constantly went on about her since they got there and Cat was called "Cat" many times.

If they delivered the line clearly I don't think people would've been left with the impression that Petyr is a crazy cat person and that's why he pushed Lysa out the door.

Burt Macklin

The show watchers aren't nearly as stupid as some people seem to think.

I've had plenty of discussions with people who understood the significance of the Jon Arryn reveal straight away and even some who predicted that Littlefinger would kill Lysa before it happened.

I'm fairly sure they could grasp that Cat meant Catelyn. And it is one of the most memorable lines in the series for me. ''Your sister'' just doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

As someone already discussed in this thread, that is a favourite passages for a lot of readers and it was always going to be tough to live up to on screen.
That said it doesn't excuse pointless changes to dumb things down. Ok, Rant over!

Witcher

Burt Macklin wrote: »

The show watchers aren't nearly as stupid as some people seem to think.

There was a lad here a few weeks ago who only copped that Jaime was Joffrey's father when Cersei said it in the Sept.

Nerdlingr

A shed load of them had the Jon Arryn/Lysa reveal sail over the head a few weeks back as well. I think 'your sister' covers all bases and resolves any ambiguity over "what did he say? Which one was Cat again?!!" scenarios.

Gbear

I'd say my biggest problem with this episode was the Mountain.

The fury didn't seem genuine enough. Conan Stevens looked like a ferocious lunatic. The Icelandic fella was big enough, certainly, and shouted a bit but I didn't buy it.

Didn't really get the setting either. I presume they were criminals being executed but it was clumsily handled.

I feel like they could've fixed being too young with makeup and dyeing his hair black with a bit of grey. Or not bothered having him kill fellas and instead showing him arriving into King's Landing decked out in his armour.

Liam O

I didn't actually mind this episode too much which is ironic because the changes are the most significant that we've seen. The potential of the show is shown in the Tyrion scenes but things like Rorge and Biter getting such insignificant deaths with Biter not even getting a shout out was a bit annoying and pointless. The fact Littlefinger has nobody to pin the murder on now is one of the most annoying things because there was such controversy about that in the book and now there's nothing realistically to prevent him just being persecuted by the Vale lords.

Mickeroo

Another very strong episode.

The scene with the Mountain was terrible/unintentionally hilarious though, I mean what the hell was he doing?

Much too young for the role too and way too clean cut, seems a bit miscast overall. Should have kept him mostly covered up in armour.

Witcher

Gregor looks like he'd rip off your head and sh1t down your neck..that's all he needs really. He has about 15/20 mins of screentime left anyway and he'll be armoured up, then he's done.

If I didn't know he was in his 20's I'd say he was mid 30's with the beard. Doesn't seem to be many complaints from the non readers about him.

Savage Tyrant

In every season so far, the HAVE NOT READ BOOKS threads are littered with "predictions".... It seems the Viper vs Mountain is no different.
Someone over there has "predicted" the Mountain wins the fight and kills Oberyn but will succumb to his injurys afterwards by poison.
I suppose its possible to guess, but I'm sceptic.

Oranage2

I'm guessing the hound gets injured, asks arya for the gift of mercy but she refuses.

bur

Oranage2 wrote: »

I'm guessing the hound gets injured, asks arya for the gift of mercy but she refuses.

He's already injured. The bite will fester and become infected.

Oranage2

bur wrote: »

He's already injured. The bite will fester and become infected.

Yeah but he surely can't die over that, he's the hound, he'll have to go out with a bang. Him giving the gift of mercy will show a contrast in Arya not giving it.

jebidiah

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

In every season so far, the HAVE NOT READ BOOKS threads are littered with "predictions".... It seems the Viper vs Mountain is no different.
Someone over there has "predicted" the Mountain wins the fight and kills Oberyn but will succumb to his injurys afterwards by poison.
I suppose its possible to guess, but I'm sceptic.

Always curious when I read stuff like that. It makes you wonder!

Responding to posts from above. I agree it would have sounded better to say "Only Cat"

But I don't think it was changed just to annoy book readers as was said earlier.

Oranage2

If the book said 'your sister ' and the show said 'Cat' people would be moaning the other way

Daith

Oranage2 wrote: »

If the book said 'your sister ' and the show said 'Cat' people would be moaning the other way

If the show said "Cat" people would be pissed that it seemed rushed and not how they imagined the delivery.

PirateShampoo

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

In every season so far, the HAVE NOT READ BOOKS threads are littered with "predictions".... It seems the Viper vs Mountain is no different.
Someone over there has "predicted" the Mountain wins the fight and kills Oberyn but will succumb to his injurys afterwards by poison.
I suppose its possible to guess, but I'm sceptic.

You should be, they are just being dicks and spoiling it for other people when clearly they know the outcome, but feel the need to boost a fake I told you so post.

December2012

http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/game-of-thrones-only-cat-line-change.

This article suggests why the line change suited the theme of the episode.

As a book lover and one whose favourite chapter in all the books was that Sansa one - the fact he said "only cat" in the books didn't stand out to me.

Turtyturd

Another good episode. Oberyn and The Hound are really going to be missed after this series. I was a bit let down by the Red Viper in the books because in my head I thought him and the Dornish who came to KL for the wedding were on a suicide mission and would play a huge part in Joffrey's death, but now that I know the outcome I can sit back and enjoy the character, and the fantastic job Pascal is doing. As for the Hound, nobody can deliver a 'c*nt' line quite like him.

Didn't see any issue with The Mountain scene. It was obvious he was limbering up for the fight, and those he was against were prisoners.

I think the Hound/Arya scenes are misdirection. She will either walk away and leave the hound lying on the side of the road, or try give him the gift of mercy but mess it up and leave him in an even worse state. Either way I hope she is on the boat to Braavos by the end of the season.

I thought Jamie would enlist Bronn in the escape but after last night I am not so sure, it would probably undermine the goodbye between the two. Was also convinced that the 'If you're looking for justice you've come to the wrong place' line was going to be in the scene between Tyrion and Jamie, I am really looking forward to that scene. Wil be interesting to see how viewers react to Tyrion from here on.

As for the 'predictions' it really is sad and I dunno what people get out of it...but there's no cure for being....

Turtyturd

I also want to see Jon behead Alliser Thorne a lot more than Janos Slynt.

A Neurotic

Liam O wrote: »

I didn't actually mind this episode too much which is ironic because the changes are the most significant that we've seen. The potential of the show is shown in the Tyrion scenes but things like Rorge and Biter getting such insignificant deaths with Biter not even getting a shout out was a bit annoying and pointless. The fact Littlefinger has nobody to pin the murder on now is one of the most annoying things because there was such controversy about that in the book and now there's nothing realistically to prevent him just being persecuted by the Vale lords.

Hardly A-list characters in fairness?

Was wondering about the singer as well. No doubt the show writers will have Littlefinger conjure up some sort of alibi or scapegoat.

Lisa78

Rereading ASOS and just read the chapter where Tyrion meets Oberyn, when he first arrives to KL and they have the speech about when the Martells went to Casterly Rock - so nerdy but I was all excited to hear it, just after reading it again. And have to say, I thought it worked really well moved to the cells and to this time in the tv show.

Daith

Turtyturd wrote: »

Didn't see any issue with The Mountain scene. It was obvious he was limbering up for the fight, and those he was against were prisoners.

It's The Mountain. He kills people. I'm still baffled as to why people are looking for his motivation.

Jelle1880

Daith wrote: »

It's The Mountain. He kills people. I'm still baffled as to why people are looking for his motivation.

Absolutely.

For all we know he got bored, went to the jail and asked if they could spare some prisoners.

joe123

Next Season is going to go down hill and I reckon they will change a fair bit for the TV show to keep it more action orientated.

The Hound and Oberyns deaths are going to be a sickener. Two of the best characters in the TV Show (and book)

This season will probably end with Brienne getting captured and meeting Cat for the first time/possibly ending with the hanging of Pod and Brienne.

Next season will be the introduction of Vicatrion and that host of new characters. Worst part of the whole book series imo.

I would have thought they would of kept Briennes story for next season as it was the best bit about " A Feast for Crows".

Daith

joe123 wrote: »

The Hound and Oberyns deaths are going to be a sickener. Two of the best characters in the TV Show (and book)

You're forgetting Tywin also.

Agreed next season is going to be interesting because it does really feel like everyone is one place and not going anywhere.

joe123

Daith wrote: »

You're forgetting Tywin also.

Agreed next season is going to be interesting because it does really feel like everyone is one place and not going anywhere.

Oh bloody hell of course.

Yeah it will definitely end with Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae.

Maybe they will have Brienne simply meet Cat, then drag out her hanging into next season to spice it up a bit?

pookiesboo

Aiden Gillen is sounding more like Tom Cruise in Far and Away. Tooraloora.

celica00

This season ending will be very sad i'd say, with all those great characters dying
I hope they leave Pod and Brienne live until the next season tbh.

One thing I dont understand is, why people get so upset about the "your sister" part.
I think that was fine.

Kunkka

That other thread is a train crash. One particular poster making mystic meg assumptions that are on the money & it isn't the first time. What the **** is wrong with people.

Gbear

PirateShampoo wrote: »

You should be, they are just being dicks and spoiling it for other people when clearly they know the outcome, but feel the need to boost a fake I told you so post.

We've jumped the gun on that before and gotten it wrong.

I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about it.

kksaints

A Neurotic wrote: »

Hardly A-list characters in fairness?

Was wondering about the singer as well. No doubt the show writers will have Littlefinger conjure up some sort of alibi or scapegoat.

Maybe Littlefinger will blame Robin or something like that. Robin is more mentally unstable in the show than in the book where he was just childish and physically stunted.

Turtyturd

joe123 wrote: »

Oh bloody hell of course.

Yeah it will definitely end with Tyrion killing Tywin and Shae.

Maybe they will have Brienne simply meet Cat, then drag out her hanging into next season to spice it up a bit?

Thinking about it they could tie the big Stoneheart reveal into Brienne's hanging.

Tom.D.BJJ

Turtyturd wrote: »

I also want to see Jon behead Alliser Thorne a lot more than Meryn Trant.

You mean Janos Slynnt, right?

Meryn Trant has been the unluckiest kingsguard ever. Four Hands and two Kings at last count have died on his watch. :pac:

OneOfThem Stumbled

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

The Mountain does look babyfaced but other than that I thought they absolutely nailed getting across this guy is a ****ing monster. Thought his only line was done well too, a very chilling moment.

Jesus they increased the Mountain's word average per season in one blow! From 0.25 words per season to 2!


2!

Rosy Posy

kksaints wrote: »

Maybe Littlefinger will blame Robin or something like that. Robin is more mentally unstable in the show than in the book where he was just childish and physically stunted.

I disagree, I find tv Robin more endearing and 'normal' than book Robin. In either media he's a little sh!t. Have they introduced his epilepsy in the TV show? I love the scene when they're descending from the Eyrie and he has a fit crossing the precipice, I'd love to see it enacted. One of the images that I loved from the snow Winterfell scene was Robin's dolls head being ripped off- a nice bit of foreshadowing IMO. I was sorry they left it out but the scene still flowed nicely, with Sansa finally fighting back albeit by slapping a child. LF is suitably creepy, the accent notwithstanding. I actually love the way they've captured the atmosphere of the Eyrie- cold and remote and full of mentalists.

Tyrion and the Viper stole the show. So sorry that Oberon will be bowing out next episode. I wonder will they actually show his head popping- one of the most graphic bits of violence from the book, or at least one that stayed with me.

I think it's within the realms of possibility that a non reader might guess that Oberon would poison the Mountain. It's already been mentioned after Joffery's death that he's an expert in poisons, and he wants to take the Mountain out by fair or foul means- no one alive stands much of a chance on an even playing field. He's made it clear that he wants him dead. Also it's not GoTs style to have the good triumph and Tyrion's already had his skin saved once in a trial by combat.

Turtyturd

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

You mean Janos Slynnt, right?

Meryn Trant has been the unluckiest kingsguard ever. Four Hands and two Kings at last count have died on his watch. :pac:

.

Yep mistake on my part. Trant was stuck in my head after The Hounds line to Arya a few weeks back.

Tigger

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

In every season so far, the HAVE NOT READ BOOKS threads are littered with "predictions".... It seems the Viper vs Mountain is no different.
Someone over there has "predicted" the Mountain wins the fight and kills Oberyn but will succumb to his injurys afterwards by poison.
I suppose its possible to guess, but I'm sceptic.

I went through a couple of posters post history's and they predicted that ned might die and said they were reading the books along with the show back as far as season one. I think its a really strange thing to do

Potatoeman

I think the first montain from season one was better and the first Daario too.

joe123

kksaints wrote: »

Maybe Littlefinger will blame Robin or something like that. Robin is more mentally unstable in the show than in the book where he was just childish and physically stunted.

Couldnt disagree more. Robin in the books was not right in the head. He had convulsions if anyone as much as touched him. He still breastfed and he kept wanting to sleep in Sansas bed. Didnt he also constantly piss his pants?

In the TV show hes more of a bold child.

Michael D Not Higgins

Tigger wrote: »

I went through a couple of posters post history's and they predicted that ned might die and said they were reading the books along with the show back as far as season one. I think its a really strange thing to do

If there are book readers, they are being careful about what they reveal to make it seem as if they are only pulling all the hints together from the show. There's a couple of them I'll be interested in what their next predictions are.

lynski

Thought all the tyrion scenes were excellent, they have used him so well: with jaime finally admitting his uselessness, bronns betrayal and his forgiveness and Oberyn's honor. Great set-ups. We have good ground work for the next few episodes. Cliff hanger time, we see the killings and tyrion disappear, but to where.
All the eyrie scenes! I had to keep my blanket over my mouth so the other half would not see me smiling while Sansa and Lysa were fighting, hehehe.
Was hoping the little ****e would have had a fit though.
I have a big soft spot for Brianne and Pod, Loved the hotpie scene, and again the set-up is sweet, i think we will see their story and LSH only from behind or something until the last minute.
Jon's discontent is being handled and the support he had from the men was obvious, everyone is afraid of thorne, but listening to jon, and the way the stannis trip so far is being set-up we are heading for a last minute gasp too - the freefolk arrive at the wall, all is nearly lost and suddenly knights appear.
I actually liked the milsandre (sp) scene, she is creepy and power hungry, the queen is calling her my lady and being subservient to her and she is loving it, it shows who is in charge and draws the queen in further to whatever plans.
I have to say i dont blame dany for a roll in the hay with the new dario, and the bit of male nudity was both very illustrating of her story, her power growing and welcome.
I do think new dario and new mountain make the whole face changers challenging, but maybe not.
Only thing i did not like was the mountain, in my head he is never without armour or helmet and it would have saved the whole 'who is he now?' bit of another new actor. He is too young and un-ravaged, and cersei's dialogue with him was stupid. maybe if he was in armour now it would make the future strong scenes too obvious ?
I did like how he is shown just slaughtering people and she just does not blink an eye, contrast with Dany's concern for the slaves and ultimately being humane with the masters.
Cracking set up for the last few episodes, though hate the break, but it bears re-watching just to be all clued in.