Galway to Moycullen Cycle Greenway?

Birroc

Is it true that the Galway to Moycullen cycle greenway has been approved for funding etc? I know the Oughterard-Clifden greenway got the go ahead but I haven't seen any media reports on Galway to Moycullen.

jkforde

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89987400&postcount=639

Newtogalway

Subject to negotiation with landowners due to privacy issues

BeardySi

Newtogalway wrote: »

Subject to negotiation with landowners due to privacy money issues

Fixed that for you...

spurscormac

Why shouldn't property owners negotiate a fair compensation for invasion of privacy?
If I owned a property along the route(which I don't, nor do I know anyone who does), and it was passing within a few metres of my house, I would be well within my rights to come to a reasonable arrangement regarding the route or protection of privacy, whether that's building a fence, planting trees etc.

I'm fully in favour of this greenway, the one in Mayo is excellent & I'll be returning for the 3rd time in 2 years next month.
However, in some locations it goes very close to people's houses, which personally, I would find invasive due to the sheer success of the greenway & numbers using it. I would assume the Moycullen-Galway route goes close too in some instances.
The success of the route would be best achieved through negotiated agreement with land/home owners.
That doesn't include some people holding the scheme to ransom, which is wrong, but a fair settlement where applicable is not unreasonable.

Micilin Muc

Any sign of construction of this yet?

monument

Micilin Muc wrote: »

Any sign of construction of this yet?

Don't think it has even gone to planning yet?

Iwannahurl

spurscormac wrote: »

Why shouldn't property owners negotiate a fair compensation for invasion of privacy?

If I owned a property along the route(which I don't, nor do I know anyone who does), and it was passing within a few metres of my house, I would be well within my rights to come to a reasonable arrangement regarding the route or protection of privacy, whether that's building a fence, planting trees etc.

The private versus public sphere is always an interesting, complex and probably vexed issue in this country.

For example, it would be interesting to know how public land (the route being a former railway line) was originally acquired by private interests. What compensation did the State get?

In Ireland major road schemes and other infrastructural projects are progressed through the use of Compulsory Purchase Orders.

Not so in the case of greenways. Instead the mechanism used is "permissive access".

http://www.irishtrails.ie/National_Trails_Office/Publications/Trail_Development/Guide_to_Planning_and_Developing_Recreational_Trails_in_Ireland.pdf

Permissive access works where landowners cooperate. Problems arise when landowners don't want to allow access, and afaik the only solution to such refusals is to divert the route. I recall one such diversion on the Newport-Achill Greenway where cyclists, including children, were shunted out onto a 100 km/h road.

The CPO approach is not being used for greenways because it's a complex legal business and costs money. CPOs are only used for Important Projects, and greenways -- despite their undoubted benefits -- are not classed as Important.

Also, my guess if that if a CPO was used to deal with recalcitrant landowners, the ones that had previously signed up under a permissive access arrangement might, on hearing money being mentioned, suddenly become less permissive.

Micilin Muc

monument wrote: »

Don't think it has even gone to planning yet?

Ah, I thought someone told me construction had already started but I hadn't seen any myself. I should have just Googled it.

According to Galway Bay FM:
* landowners will be consulted from September 2014
* Co. Council to prepare an Environmental Impact Study
* Planning application to An Bord Pleanála
* Project to go to public tender
* Construction which will take 6-8 months, not likely to start for over a year.

We're probably looking at it being opened in summer/autumn of 2016.

Newtogalway

It will be fantastic. I've been involved in 'not in my backyard' campaigns before but sometimes the greater good just has to prevail

Iwannahurl

Newtogalway wrote: »

It will be fantastic. I've been involved in 'not in my backyard' campaigns before but sometimes the greater good just has to prevail

As the term itself suggests, the Greater Good ought to prevail all the time.

Micilin Muc

Yes ... the Greater Good ...

Iwannahurl wrote: »

As the term itself suggests, the Greater Good ought to prevail all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY

On a serious note, it can only be good for Moycullen tourism. It's currently not accessible by bike for typical greenway users, ie occasional cyclists and family spins etc.

Iwannahurl

The greenway from Moycullen to Galway will also be an ideal cycle route for commuters.

Foe example, there are more than a few NUI Galway employees (and probably students) living in the village.

When the greenway opens they can make legitimate use of their Bike to Work purchases...

happyoutscan

Where is the proposed start of the Greenway in Galway going to be does anyone know yet?

Iwannahurl

My guess is that it will link up with the greenway in the grounds of NUI Galway: http://galwayindependent.com/20140423/news/2-million-for-galway-greenway-S36646.html

In theory it could also link up with the river-side route and the small fragment of cycle path in South Park.

The powers that be are going to have to work a lot harder at connectivity, though. Currently they seem much too self-satisfied with bits and pieces of cycle paths here and there, though there are no connections between them.

As an example, just try crossing the Salmon Weir Bridge from the canal path to the NUI Galway greenway, with kids in tow.

nuac

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The private versus public sphere is always an interesting, complex and probably vexed issue in this country.

For example, it would be interesting to know how public land (the route being a former railway line) was originally acquired by private interests. What compensation did the State get?

In Ireland major road schemes and other infrastructural projects are progressed through the use of Compulsory Purchase Orders.

Not so in the case of greenways. Instead the mechanism used is "permissive access".

http://www.irishtrails.ie/National_Trails_Office/Publications/Trail_Development/Guide_to_Planning_and_Developing_Recreational_Trails_in_Ireland.pdf

Permissive access works where landowners cooperate. Problems arise when landowners don't want to allow access, and afaik the only solution to such refusals is to divert the route. I recall one such diversion on the Newport-Achill Greenway where cyclists, including children, were shunted out onto a 100 km/h road.

The CPO approach is not being used for greenways because it's a complex legal business and costs money. CPOs are only used for Important Projects, and greenways -- despite their undoubted benefits -- are not classed as Important.

Also, my guess if that if a CPO was used to deal with recalcitrant landowners, the ones that had previously signed up under a permissive access arrangement might, on hearing money being mentioned, suddenly become less permissive.

When the railways were being built the railway companies had power to acquire land by CPO provisions. For large tracts the land was still owned by local landlords who usually willingly provided the land to open up their estates. In the remote West many of these built about 1880/90s

When rail services were discontinued railway crossing cottages were sold off, and disused track sold to adjoining land owners. By that stage, approx 1940s in Mayo and Galway the landlords estates had been vested in the former tenants. Uusally the railway company sold stretches of old line to the adjoining farmers. Price may not have been very high, but there were also covenants to keep the fencing and drainage in order. The fencing and drainage covenants have come into play in some cases later.

In Mayo the County Council officials negotiated the permissive accesses with adjoining landowners. Local community groups, Leader etc were also involved.

It has been a very successful project. Brings lots of tourists to the area, and sustains employment there

Councils do have CPO powers, basically for the common good and where there is not alternative. Usually for housing, roads, industrial sites etc. Owner has right of appeal to ABP. Haven't so far heard of a CPO application for a Greenway. I imagine if the owner can offer or suggest a reasonable detour that the CPO would not succeed

Iwannahurl

Now that you mention it, I think I saw a mention recently of CPOs being used for a new greenway. Dublin-Galway perhaps?

nuac

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The private versus public sphere is always an interesting, complex and probably vexed issue in this country.

For example, it would be interesting to know how public land (the route being a former railway line) was originally acquired by private interests. What compensation did the State get?

In Ireland major road schemes and other infrastructural projects are progressed through the use of Compulsory Purchase Orders.

Not so in the case of greenways. Instead the mechanism used is "permissive access".

http://www.irishtrails.ie/National_Trails_Office/Publications/Trail_Development/Guide_to_Planning_and_Developing_Recreational_Trails_in_Ireland.pdf

Permissive access works where landowners cooperate. Problems arise when landowners don't want to allow access, and afaik the only solution to such refusals is to divert the route. I recall one such diversion on the Newport-Achill Greenway where cyclists, including children, were shunted out onto a 100 km/h road.

The CPO approach is not being used for greenways because it's a complex legal business and costs money. CPOs are only used for Important Projects, and greenways -- despite their undoubted benefits -- are not classed as Important.

Also, my guess if that if a CPO was used to deal with recalcitrant landowners, the ones that had previously signed up under a permissive access arrangement might, on hearing money being mentioned, suddenly become less permissive.

Sorry double post

pat25c

Has work even started yet?

Flyingsolo

Just on planning, construction not starting until February 2016 according to dttas

Baggy Trousers

Flyingsolo wrote: »

Just on planning, construction not starting until February 2016 according to dttas

When is completion date?

Flyingsolo

Looks like December 2016 according to the report
Planning & Eis started 2014-2015
Construction February -December 2016
I will share the link when I get a chance

pat25c

Just wondering if there is any update on the greenway besides landowner opposition?

Worn Out

Any news here?
Galway is missing out on this opportunity.
Today we drove 1.5 hours to Newport and spent a fun family day cycling the Mayo green way.
If only we could have cycled though Connemara or east towards Dublin instead.
Newport looks a pretty and lively place regenerated off the back of all the new tourism.
Imagine the benefits financially, socially and for health if this was up and running in Galway.

nuac

Yes the Greenway Westport/Castlebar/Newport/Achill has been a great success. Lots cycle it even in off season.

Perhaps Galway Co Co should employ the Mayo Co Co Greenway project team as consultants:)

Green Peter

I think the plan is to continue to run down the N59 until it becomes impassable for cars and hey presto you have your Greenway, it shouldn't be long! A ferry will operate from galway to maam bridge with a stop off in oughterard. a cable car system will operate across the mountains from Clifden to maam bridge to connect with the ferry. The national parks and wildlife are not objecting to the ferry or cable car system unless birds nest in them, if that happens a tunnel will be built under the twelve pins in 2099. Natives will be exiled in Syria in the meantime.

galwaycyclist

nuac wrote: »

Yes the Greenway Westport/Castlebar/Newport/Achill has been a great success. Lots cycle it even in off season.

Perhaps Galway Co Co should employ the Mayo Co Co Greenway project team as consultants:)

A variation on this theme has already been suggested. There would be a view that the Mayo project was a success because the lead agency was the Community and Enterprise Department of Mayo County Council.

There would also be a view that the Galway projects, Galway - Dublin, Galway - Oughterard, Oughterard - Clifden have gone nowhere or have been a disaster because the lead agency was the Roads Department of Galway County Council.

There may be a lesson in that.

Baggy Trousers

We should email Kyne and CuivO to see where the greenway is at.
I somehow think it will never happen.

Private Joker

Plans of the proposed route are available to view on the county councils website http://www.galway.ie/en/services/roads/connemaragreenway/

The EIS is in the process of being prepared and should be nearly completed. it was supposed to go for planning early this year but there has been a lot of opposition by landowners to the scheme http://www.galwayindependent.com/news/topics/articles/2015/12/10/4111090-greenway-will-take-our-livelihoods-claim-connemara-landowners--/

Initially it was supposed to be worked on a permissive access arrangement with the landowners like the westport greenway but with the level of opposition this looks like it wont happen . therefore it would require a political decision from government to purchase the lands , either through CPO or by agreement .

So in other words, this wont be happening anytime soon.

Private Joker

galwaycyclist wrote: »

There would also be a view that the Galway projects, Galway - Dublin, Galway - Oughterard, Oughterard - Clifden have gone nowhere or have been a disaster because the lead agency was the Roads Department of Galway County Council.

There may be a lesson in that.

Galway to dublin is the TII/NRA, oughterard to clifden already has planning but no funding.

the westport greenway has its share of problems too , some of the landowners have effectively closed the route because of a disagreement with the council over other issues.

galwaycyclist

Private Joker wrote: »

oughterard to clifden already has planning but no funding.

Uh "technically" yes. "Actually" the route that came out of the planning process (and was endorsed by An Bord Pleanala) was modified during that planning process without the knowledge of some of the landowners.

So it went through "planning" yes but the route is not "agreed".