Where do first time buyers on Primetime get 400k? What jobs have they? Is it staged?

maryishere

nilsonmickey wrote: »

60k is not a large salary. I think for a couple earning 50k each should be entitled to a mortgage of 400k.

60k is a big salary. Average industrial wage is this country is 32k a year. In most other countries inc the UK its less.

aristotle25

Avg industrial wage is around 41k according to some 2012 article below...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/average-annual-salary-falls-to-40775-213305.html

60k IMO is not a "big" salary. I work in a software company where the average salary is around 65k excluding benefits.

indiewindy

aristotle25 wrote: »

Avg industrial wage is around 41k according to some 2012 article below...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/average-annual-salary-falls-to-40775-213305.html

60k IMO is not a "big" salary. I work in a software company where the average salary is around 65k excluding benefits.

It may not be to you, but it is a very large salary for the vast majority of the work force. Not everyone works in I.T

aristotle25

indiewindy wrote: »

It may not be to you, but it is a very large salary for the vast majority of the work force. Not everyone works in I.T

Some more good stats here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/

maryishere

aristotle25 wrote: »

Some more good stats here:
http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/high-earner-ireland-755580-Jan2013/

Thank you.

the above states "On average individuals in the Republic of Ireland have an annual gross income of €26,800"

seamus

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Someone actually said to me the other day:

'A mortgage is the cheapest loan you can get, you should borrow as much as you can'

"Borrow as much as you can", not so much, but it's true that mortgage debt is the cheapest debt you can buy. For example, if you're planning on buying a new car for €20k, it can be cheaper to remortgage your property to get that cash than to get a 5 year car loan. Then you overpay your mortgage for those five years to clear off that extra €20k (otherwise you end up overpaying in interest in the long term).

But borrowing cash you don't need just because the bank will give it to you, is madness at any price.

Shakespeare's Sister

anynews14 wrote: »

What jobs pay 60k a year that are secure that the banks would give mortgages for?
I realise u will say public sector but they have not recruited for years now.

How does the public sector not recruiting for six/seven years (and there has been *some* little bit of recruitment) make a difference to those people aged in their late 20s onwards (typical age profile of first-time buyers) who have worked in the public sector since their early 20s?

I realise u will say IT but I know there aren't tens of thousands of jobs in this, other countries can provide these services e.g India.

How does there not being tens of thousands of IT jobs mean nobody working in IT can genuinely afford a mortgage down payment?

Stheno

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I work with Indians every day. I don't think outsourcing will really move past the low end jobs for a long time yet, derived from my personal experience. They have a very unusual culture that's not very suited to the business world. Outsourcing has also not reaped the benefits envisioned. Plenty of multinationals now have in-source policy's and rank hiring locations in the US and Europe above Asia and other outsource specific country's.

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Many people who don't work in IT really don't understand this. I have seen more work come back from India than stay at around 80%. The whole RBS mess has also made it more likely jobs will never be outsourced.

Having worked with Indian outsourced teams The quality of work has been appalling. There is certainly a cultural issue where the idea of making sure something is working doesn't seem to be a consideration. The difference between an amateur and a professional, amateur does it till the get it right once where a professional does it till he doesn't get it wrong.

I'd be more worried about eastern block IT workers as they seem to be really good. There are huge security risks so that is a problem outsourcing to there.

You simply can't outsource a lot of work either as you need to be on site.

Agreed on both these statements, I work in an area which is expanding rapidly to manage the problems outsourcing causes in IT and there are more opportunities than can be filled with experienced people ime

coolemon

aristotle25 wrote: »

Avg industrial wage is around 41k according to some 2012 article below...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/average-annual-salary-falls-to-40775-213305.html

60k IMO is not a "big" salary. I work in a software company where the average salary is around 65k excluding benefits.

60,000 euro is a huge salary. only 10% of people have an income of 60,000 and above. Just 5% have an income above 78,000. 1.5% above 120,000 euro.

How on earth you think it is not a big salary I don't know.

Stheno

coolemon wrote: »

60,000 euro is a huge salary. only 10% of people have an income of 60,000 and above. Just 5% have an income above 78,000. 1.5% above 120,000 euro.

How on earth you think it is not a big salary I don't know.

Gross it sounds big.

Take a look at the difference net. 14k of that 60k after 32k goes on taxes.

So while they might earn 28k more than someone on 32k they take home 14000 a year more despite earning almost 95% more gross, that's just over 1000 a month more, despite earning almost double the money. The rest goes in taxes.

So while sounding massive taxes soon eat into a big chunk of that. Add in childcare and suddenly taking advantage of the likes of pension tax relief isn't possible.

coolemon

Stheno wrote: »

Gross it sounds big.

Take a look at the difference net. 14k of that 60k after 32k goes on taxes.

So while they might earn 28k more than someone on 32k they take home 14000 a year more despite earning almost 95% more gross, that's just over 1000 a month more, despite earning almost double the money. The rest goes in taxes.

So while sounding massive taxes soon eat into a big chunk of that. Add in childcare and suddenly taking advantage of the likes of pension tax relief isn't possible.

Depends what the OP means by "big". I think it only makes sense in relation to what other people are earning. And in that respect, with only 10% earning 60k per year or more, it most certainly is 'big'. Its not average that's for sure.

aristotle25

coolemon wrote: »

60,000 euro is a huge salary. only 10% of people have an income of 60,000 and above. Just 5% have an income above 78,000. 1.5% above 120,000 euro.

How on earth you think it is not a big salary I don't know.

I would question the stats as does it account for unemployed and part time earners? Both of which would pull down the average.

The reason I don't think 60k is huge is because I know the salaries paid in IT across all ranges. 60k is a good salary no question. It's not huge, huge would be 150k+ but then again if you read the Sunday times rich list then it's pocket money.

I see receptionists on 28k, IT graduates starting on the same or more. And I just base it on the avg salary in IT. So I am probably just blinkered by that.

dizzymiss

nilsonmickey wrote: »

60k is not a large salary. I think for a couple earning 50k each should be entitled to a mortgage of 400k.

That is a very large salary to sone people ie me. I work in private healthcare and the most I'll ever earn is 40k. With my husband we've recently been approved for a relatively modest (compared to figures being mentioned in this thread) mortgage of 210k. We'd prefer not to have to use that amount. We live in the west where prices have been slowly creeping up over past few months and supply is low. If it keeps going the way it is we'll be priced out of anything decent.

Stheno

dizzymiss wrote: »

That is a very large salary to sone people ie me. I work in private healthcare and the most I'll ever earn is 40k. With my husband we've recently been approved for a relatively modest (compared to figures being mentioned in this thread) mortgage of 210k. We'd prefer not to have to use that amount. We live in the west where prices have been slowly creeping up over past few months and supply is low. If it keeps going the way it is we'll be priced out of anything decent.

It honestly depends on the sector, someone in IT on 40k would be midlevel at most, I've managed graduates on 30k starting out.

healthcare unless you are a doctor does not pay high salaries

el pasco

maryishere wrote: »

Thank you.

the above states "On average individuals in the Republic of Ireland have an annual gross income of €26,800"

What the medium wage though?

Tarzana

seamus wrote: »

For two working people, a €400k mortgage isn't that big. That's two €45k salaries - a fairly typical salary for a young professional 5-10 years out of college

Shouldn't a mortgage be calculated using just one salary though, or worse case scenario if BOTH jobs are lost? That's how it used to be done, and still should be, IMO.

Stheno

el pasco wrote: »

What the medium wage though?

The median (average) wage is about 36k iirc?

dizzymiss

Stheno wrote: »

healthcare unless you are a doctor does not pay high salaries

Or work in the HSE in a senior admin role!!!

Stheno

dizzymiss wrote: »

Or work in the HSE in a senior admin role!!!

I was talking about pure healthcare, i.e nurses, nurses aides, paramedics

IMO a good revision of the HSE would get rid of a lot of non front line rot, the manager in HR has said so before in terms of his staff of 6000+

dizzymiss

Stheno wrote: »

I was talking about pure healthcare, i.e nurses, nurses aides, paramedics

IMO a good revision of the HSE would get rid of a lot of non front line rot, the manager in HR has said so before in terms of his staff of 6000+

Im pure healthcare then and will never get rich

Stheno

dizzymiss wrote: »

Im pure healthcare then and will never get rich

You could potentially retrain or upskill.

I work in IT and very few of the people I know earning high salaries go more than a year or two without upskilling and gaining new qualifications#

I've lots of qualifications, but no primary degree and it became clear to me some years ago that without a degree I'd not progress.

So now, on top of a full time job, I've spent two years pursuing a masters, tonight I came home after a full day and had to do a presentation of my work to my lecturer

The_Conductor

Tarzana wrote: »

Shouldn't a mortgage be calculated using just one salary though, or worse case scenario if BOTH jobs are lost? That's how it used to be done, and still should be, IMO.

The standard is 3.5 times the principle salary and 1 times the secondary salary.

Some of the recent threads in this forum suggest this isn't being followed though.......

on_my_oe

We have three times our joint salary (and before anyone makes a direct comment about kids etc, we are childless through infertility), and the average FTB approval is €167,000 according to the independent - more than our approval.

The principal earner is on the average industrial wage, the secondary wage is half this, so our total approval is feck all. We are looking for sub €200k property in Dublin, and there are a lot of rental investors swimming in our corner of the pond We have an offer accepted on a property since the beginning of the year, but are waiting for Consent to be issued by the vendors bank. Or we could just be the vendors bargaining chip, and being strung along.

Overall we think we will have to give up until next year, and in the meantime hopefully save more and get a pay rise or two.

Bobeagleburger

on_my_oe wrote: »

We have three times our joint salary (and before anyone makes a direct comment about kids etc, we are childless through infertility), and the average FTB approval is €167,000 according to the independent - more than our approval.

The principal earner is on the average industrial wage, the secondary wage is half this, so our total approval is feck all. We are looking for sub €200k property in Dublin, and there are a lot of rental investors swimming in our corner of the pond We have an offer accepted on a property since the beginning of the year, but are waiting for Consent to be issued by the vendors bank. Or we could just be the vendors bargaining chip, and being strung along.

Overall we think we will have to give up until next year, and in the meantime hopefully save more and get a pay rise or two.

I'd contact them and give them a week to sort it out or you're withdrawing your offer. Fcuk that for carry on.

surpy

The_Conductor wrote: »

The standard is 3.5 times the principle salary and 1 times the secondary salary.

what do you mean by standard? i would have thought the guideline is the banks own actuarial calculations.

somewhere around 4-5 x joint income would be considered the max these days

whippet

surpy wrote: »

what do you mean by standard? i would have thought the guideline is the banks own actuarial calculations.

somewhere around 4-5 x joint income would be considered the max these days

4-5 times joint income would be reckless .. and is what was endemic during the last bubble.

People should be looking at borrowing as little as possible ... not as much as possible. I have a mortgage of 1.2 times our joint salary on a house we got last year and I wouldn't be comfortable borrowing any more.

When we bought our first house we decided that by rule our mortgage should be able to be serviced by a single income .. just to be prudent and we have not deviated from that thinking since.

Zamboni

whippet wrote: »

4-5 times joint income would be reckless .. and is what was endemic during the last bubble.

People should be looking at borrowing as little as possible ... not as much as possible. I have a mortgage of 1.2 times our joint salary on a house we got last year and I wouldn't be comfortable borrowing any more.

When we bought our first house we decided that by rule our mortgage should be able to be serviced by a single income .. just to be prudent and we have not deviated from that thinking since.

That's a shame.
There are people sitting in houses mortgaged by 8-10 times combined income who are now on the dole. And they get to keep them.
Why are you so prudent when it is clearly recklessness that gets rewarded?

NIMAN

rarnes1 wrote: »

Speak for yourself :pac:

Most people buying these days are more cautious imo.

If those folk on that programme are anything to go by, they are far from cautious.

seamus

Tarzana wrote: »

Shouldn't a mortgage be calculated using just one salary though, or worse case scenario if BOTH jobs are lost? That's how it used to be done, and still should be, IMO.

I disagree. Originally the metric was just the man's salary (tbf, women didn't have salaries, really).

Then it became X times the man's salary plus half of the woman's, or something like that, on the basis that the woman will eventually have children and leave the workforce (women were forced to leave the civil service after marriage until 1973). This was a de facto requirement to quit work since there was no maternity leave or pay and an employer isn't going to keep your job open while you go off and have your baby.

Modern work is not the same. Yes, plenty of women do leave or reduce their hours after having a child, but equally many don't and maternity leave and pay means that they experience only a small (or no) break in their earning power.
Rightly, childcare has become a big factor in affordability analysis whereas 30 years ago it wouldn't even be a question - it would be assumed the mother stays at home to mind the kids.

Affordability is based on the reasonable assumption that a person in employment will be continuously employed except for the odd month or two break here and there. Even if someone does lose their job, it's only in exceptional circumstances (such as an economic crash) that they will remain unemployed in the long term.

Edit: Based on poking around with online calculators for the last few weeks, ~4.5 x joint salary is in fact the standard calculation, at least for approval in principle. I think the concept of "primary" and "secondary" salary is completely outdated. When you go for full approval, they will do a more detailed analysis and probably reduce your approved amount if they believe that one person's salary is less stable or they're likely to leave work altogether.

whippet

Zamboni wrote: »

That's a shame.
There are people sitting in houses mortgaged by 8-10 times combined income who are now on the dole. And they get to keep them.
Why are you so prudent when it is clearly recklessness that gets rewarded?

I'd prefer not to have a chip on my shoulder about what other people did or didn't do ... I could sit back and bitch and moan about people who borrowed stupidly etc ..

the people you have mentioned above (on the dole and keeping their homes) are still struggling so kicking them when they are down isn't going to achieve anything.