Move over Green Party.

fleet_admiral

Phoebas wrote: »

Eamon Ryan has a reasonable chance of an EU seat in Dublin.

That twat is responsible for the carbon tax (which increased on the 1st of this month, sadly hardly anyone noticed but will in October once they start using solid fuel again) so I hope he remains out of politics

wprathead

wprathead wrote: »

FF were more the guy drinking and driving, pulls over and lets the Greens in passenger seat, hands them a can of dutch gold which the Greens chug as wanted to be in car for ages, FF continues on driving- sees the cops in rearview mirror, pull over- tell the Greens to get in the driver seat, Greens (being lightweights and drunk of 1 can) do what they told and when cops come they both arrested but FF get lighter sentence while Greens life ruined forever

That is some beautiful political commentary right there. Vincent Browne, eat your heart out! :pac:

Phoebas

fleet_admiral wrote: »

That twat is responsible for the carbon tax (which increased on the 1st of this month, sadly hardly anyone noticed but will in October once they start using solid fuel again) so I hope he remains out of politics

The Green party were responsible for implementing green policies? That's a positive from a Green point of view.

Reformed Character

Elmo wrote: »

In fairness the PDs where feeding FF the champagne, the Green's were in the cycle lane. At least The Green's had the guts to fight an election. Many in FF and the PD suddenly decided to retire, or simply run as independents.

In fairness FF did not require the PDs to remain in power, all they required, was the continued support of the greens.
And let us not forget what those green wasters priorities were. As this country's economy slid down the pan, and the government sold us all into hock with the bank guarantee, the Green Party priority was passing a law on how often female canines could have pups!

sock puppet

theKillerBite wrote: »

Their budget proposals include:

a site tax (tax on agricultural land)

Recognised as one of the few "good" taxes a government can implement, since it encourages the productive use of land rather than leaving it idle. Land is unlike any other asset so it would seem natural to me that it be treated differently to other assets.

increase in capital taxes to 35% (a tax on savings and investments)

Why should capital gains be taxed at a lower rate than labour?

Most of the rest of their proposals are really just a matter of opinion as to whether you prioritise economic growth over environmental issues. Most people do but if someone votes for a Green party and is then surprised that they implement carbon taxes then they're an utter moron.

kneemos

Phoebas wrote: »

The Green party were responsible for implementing green policies? That's a positive from a Green point of view.

The savings in carbon emissions from a carbon tax in a country like Ireland is literally akin to a Grasshoppers fart in a hurricane.

Banjo String

Was it the greens that were responsible for the hikes in some of our motor tax prices?

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Was it the greens that were responsible for the hikes in some of our motor tax prices?

And big drops in others.

EyeSight

Phoebas wrote: »

The Green party were responsible for implementing green policies? That's a positive from a Green point of view.

But they implemented them in a very lazy way. Mostly by just adding new taxes

Phoebas

kneemos wrote: »

The savings in carbon emissions from a carbon tax in a country like Ireland is literally akin to a Grasshoppers fart in a hurricane.

True that, although we are liable to large fines from the EU if we don't hit our targets, so there is a bigger picture than just the emissions themselves.

Anyway, regardless of how you view their policies, the successful implementation of their own policies is just them successfully delivering to the voters who put them in power.

Banjo String

Phoebas wrote: »

And big drops in others.

Yes, but mostly it penalised those who couldn't afford to upgrade or drive newer models.

End result, those in newer more expensive more powerful cars, who could well afford to be taxed on a 'luxury good' got Road tax of in and around 150€

Family in a 06 diesel got hit with almost €700


They decimated the second hand car market.

Chinasea

kneemos wrote: »

His want to cover the midlands with hideous wind turbines to supply the British with their
renewable quota.
Cracked as cracked thing.

You forgot another cliche though, tree huggin open toe sandal hippy. With a nation that is fondly known as the Emerald isle, and a nation that is pro creating faster than Chaiman Mao's pet rabbits, what sustainable solutions do you have to heat and feed your ever expanding insufficient prolific guzzling off springs?



,

kneemos

Chinasea wrote: »

You forgot another cliche though, tree huggin open toe sandal hippy. With a nation that is fondly known as the Emerald isle, and a nation that is pro creating faster than Chaiman Mao's pet rabbits, what sustainable solutions do you have to heat and feed your ever expanding insufficient prolific guzzling off springs?



,

Building windfarms to fill the British renewable quota isn't going to overflow anybody's spring.

Elmo

upyores wrote: »

In fairness FF did not require the PDs to remain in power, all they required, was the continued support of the greens.
And let us not forget what those green wasters priorities were. As this country's economy slid down the pan, and the government sold us all into hock with the bank guarantee, the Green Party priority was passing a law on how often female canines could have pups!

The PDs had left centre stage. FF was supported by the 2 remaining now Indo PDs, FF then had the other so called indos, FF were worried that The Green's might do a runner after year one so they made sure if they did they had the backing of enough indos to see them hold on to power.

FF 77 +CC1
PD 2
GP 6
NP 4
TD 90

With out the GP 83 or just 50% (+CC1) of the sitting TDs. FF's Seamus Brennan had said he didn't want to be in a position of having to go back an forth between Indo's and the political parties as had happened in 1997.

The Greens should have said that it would not support a government that was doing deals with Indo FFers such as Healy Rea and Flynn, and certainly not FGer Lowery.

Finian McGrath stopped supporting the Gov in Oct 2008, with Flynn returning to the FF party.

FF brought in the Indo's and the PDs for stability. Again the greens should have asked that the PDs not enter government.

However FF felt that it would not have a stable government with the Greens or with just Indos and 2 TDs. FF could have formed a government with just FF, PDs and Indos as they did before.

And like the Labour Party the Greens would have been better off out of such a government.

Heroditas

Phoebas wrote: »

True that, although we are liable to large fines from the EU if we don't hit our targets, so there is a bigger picture than just the emissions themselves.

There is no existing European legislation for the imposition of fines on member states for non-achievement of targets such as the 2020 targets for energy efficiency.
Also, it is highly unlikely that any fine would be imposed in the event of non-achievement if such legislation existed.

Phoebas

Banjo String wrote: »

Yes, but mostly it penalised those who couldn't afford to upgrade or drive newer models.

End result, those in newer more expensive more powerful cars, who could well afford to be taxed on a 'luxury good' got Road tax of in and around 150€

Family in a 06 diesel got hit with almost €700


They decimated the second hand car market.

That's a fair enough criticism of the Greens, but again, its a Green policy successfully implemented by the Greens.

So far on this thread the Greens have been slated mostly for their (from their supporters pov) successes.
The point of the OP was that Labour would be following them into oblivion, but Labour are in trouble because they are perceived to have failed to implement a Labour agenda.

The Greens sold their soul in order to get some green policies implemented. Labour seem to have sold their soul to implement FG policies.

Phoebas

Heroditas wrote: »

There is no existing European legislation for the imposition of fines on member states for non-achievement of targets such as the 2020 targets for energy efficiency.
Also, it is highly unlikely that any fine would be imposed in the event of non-achievement if such legislation existed.

I had read that we could be subject to fines, but in any case, if we sign up to agreements then we really should make the effort to comply with them.
Anyway, its probably going a bit off topic.

The Government will be able to buy credits, but just for one year.
For missing out on more than one year the country will face penalties and be
referred to the European Court of Justice for infringing the EU agreement and
could be fined substantial sums.
On top of that, the country will have to buy carbon credits to compensate for
the extra gases being emitted over and above the target it was set.
“It could cost hundreds of millions of euro,” said a well-placed EU
source.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/carbon-gas-levels-may-see-hundreds-of-millions-in-fines-265384.html

tomwaterford

Phoebas wrote: »

That's a fair enough criticism of the Greens, but again, its a Green policy successfully implemented by the Greens.

So far on this thread the Greens have been slated mostly for their (from their supporters pov) successes.
The point of the OP was that Labour would be following them into oblivion, but Labour are in trouble because they are perceived to have failed to implement a Labour agenda.

The Greens sold their soul in order to get some green policies implemented. Labour seem to have sold their soul to implement FG policies.

I actually 100% agree with you:eek:

but that being said...if they get away with proportionally 50% less councillers (allowing for reductions) they will do very well...as there are a lot of people well pissed off with labour....more or less laughing at those that voted for them...I think there is a famous quote by pat rabbit that I made my mind up after hearing...nothing has happened to change my mind....I really taught they would look out for less well off in the country...its a pity as I know a few involved with labour who have left/on verge of leaving

carpejugulum

So which socialist party unable to fulfil it's pie in the sky promises are their voters going to choose this time?

The One Doctor

Shanley wrote: »

Time to move on

Yeah, choose carbombs and kneecapping. A great bunch of lads, SF and their paramilitary cronies.

tomwaterford

The One Doctor wrote: »

Yeah, choose carbombs and kneecapping. A great bunch of lads, SF and their paramilitary cronies.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Elmo

The One Doctor wrote: »

Yeah, choose carbombs and kneecapping. A great bunch of lads, SF and their paramilitary cronies.

Shhh just don't mention internment, the british army, uda etc oh but there is the excuse that they aren't going for election, but what about the people who stood by. We're all as bad as one another.

Davarus Walrus

Labour are going to take a hammering. I'd like to know what people expected them to do? They were elected as the junior coalition partner in a Government that took power during a financial crisis that was unprecedented. Really difficult decisions had to be made. More tax, more cuts, less spending on services. I very much doubt social democrats like Joan Burton march into their office each day to make difficult decisions just out of spite. Mistakes were made, but we managed to get through it without having to take some of the drastic actions that appear to be espoused around here. Leaving the Euro, violent revolution, defaulting on Sovereign debt.

Circumstances dictate realistic decisions when in power. That's realpolitik. I think both parties worked well on making some sort of decent attempt at fixing things. We still borrow a billion a month though. I'd take pragmatic parties like FG and Labour any day over the sort of the populist 'pie-in-the-sky- gibberish being fired out by various fringe parties and independents.

tomwaterford

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Labour are going to take a hammering. I'd like to know what people expected them to do? They were elected as the junior coalition partner in a Government that took power .

emm...they were well aware what it was like before they ran for election...why did they outright lie...(fanfurts way or labours way...would indicate to a not unreasonable person that labour would resign/at least attempt to push there policies)


also...on a more serious note...labour has always been associated with workers rights (esp lower paid unions)
they are the ones standing over the mess that is jobbridge,TUAS...mickey mose work for dole schemes....
.they made a big deal of 100 years since 1913 lockout...where one of main causes was people looking for a days pay for a days work...now they are standing over threatening to cut peoples dole if they don't take up a jobbridge.....a party with virtually no principals to speak of once they got into power/position to secure there pensions:mad::mad::mad:

Heroditas

Phoebas wrote: »

I had read that we could be subject to fines, but in any case, if we sign up to agreements then we really should make the effort to comply with them.
Anyway, its probably going a bit off topic.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/carbon-gas-levels-may-see-hundreds-of-millions-in-fines-265384.html

We're meeting our emissions targets though so that particular target, while difficult, isn't too much of a problem.

wildlifeboy

i am voting greens on friday.

gandalf

tayto lover wrote: »

Shove over Greens and P.D.'s and make room for Labour on the benches of history.

Bye bye Labour.

Really that bench should be cleared for FF, I have a bad feeling that all that is happening is the way is being cleared for those gougers to swan back into power in two years time.

Agent Smith

c_man wrote: »

Yeah, can't see too many SF - FG transfers




Anyways, back on topic. Gilmore for taoiseach! :pac:

You'd see even Less FG -SF Transfers!



I think labours gonna take a hit. A Big one, Maybe not fatal.


I think SF's Support is over estimated in the polls, They will do well, but Not as well as the polls suggest?

Elmo

Agent Smith wrote: »

I think SF's Support is over estimated in the polls, They will do well, but Not as well as the polls suggest?

It all depends on who goes out to vote. I see a very low turn out this time round. People are just sick of politicians of all colours.

Conmaicne Mara

sock puppet wrote: »

Recognised as one of the few "good" taxes a government can implement, since it encourages the productive use of land rather than leaving it idle.

Agricultural land, by it's very nature, is not idle.

The One Doctor

Has anyone seen that DDI poster saying 'Declaration of War!'? I know DDI is a loose collection of 'the law doesn't apply to me' Freemen types and job-dodging hippies, but come on, that's the crappiest and most illogical election message I've ever seen.

Agent Smith

The One Doctor wrote: »

Has anyone seen that DDI poster saying 'Declaration of War!'? I know DDI is a loose collection of Freeman and hippies, but come on, that's the crappiest and most illogical election message I've ever seen.

As Seen On Youtube!



(along with cat videos and Russian Dash Cam Footage)

LeinsterDub

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but as a party they are fecked.;)

Considering 21% of the muppets appear to have forgiven FF , anything can happen in 2 years . 2 years is a long time in politics

wildlifeboy

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Considering 21% of the muppets appear to have forgiven FF , anything can happen in 2 years . 2 years is a long time in politics

They have ruled irish politics for over half of the time the state has existed and in 90 percent of that time they have been a corrupt power hungry nepotism ridden bunch of charlatans. whooever votes for them needs their head read seriously.

tayto lover

To be honest I haven't even considered FF. They should be history.
I couldn't vote for FG again either after all the lies and false promises.
The Greens are a madcap party who cost the consumers a lot of money.
Won't be voting Labour either. I was an ardent Labour voter but I see them now as turncoats.
Have never voted SF but in the locals I might this time as they seem to be doing a good job in local politics. The General Election is different.

sock puppet

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Agricultural land, by it's very nature, is not idle.

And? There's nothing to stop farmers getting a tax break on it if it ends up being higher than what they pay on their residential home under the LPT. I didn't reply to that point because it's fucking obvious to anyone with half a brain that an LVT isn't aimed at farmers.

LuckyLloyd

carpejugulum wrote: »

So which socialist party unable to fulfil it's pie in the sky promises are their voters going to choose this time?

Not Labour anyway. Though they are 'Socialist' rather than Socialist.

carpejugulum

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not Labour anyway. Though they are 'Socialist' rather than Socialist.

As in they won't commit an economic suicide like FF?

tayto lover

More benches required urgently.
We didn't think there'd be that many of them.

Foxhound38

tayto lover wrote: »

Shove over Greens and P.D.'s and make room for Labour on the benches of history.

Bye bye Labour.

Eamon Ryan seems set for the Dublin Euro seat?

You're sort of defeating your own point by including them here

My name is URL

https://twitter.com/minihanmary/status/470164948208062465

:pac:

Chinasea

tayto lover wrote: »

The Greens are a madcap party who cost the consumers a lot of money.
.

Robust exact examples please?

tayto lover

Chinasea wrote: »

Robust exact examples please?

Increase in fuel and bin charges for a start i.e. Petrol, heating oil because of their Carbon Tax measures.

Birroc

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Eamon Ryan seems set for the Dublin Euro seat?

You're sort of defeating your own point by including them here

I am glad for Ryan. He is a good public representative. He will do very well in Europe.

Chinasea

tayto lover wrote: »

Increase in fuel and bin charges for a start i.e. Petrol, heating oil because of their Carbon Tax measures.

You mentioned madcap. Not seeing how these measures/taxes are "mad" as you call them.

tayto lover

Chinasea wrote: »

You mentioned madcap. Not seeing how these measures/taxes are "mad" as you call them.

They were "mad" to the people who were getting it hard to afford the heating oil, petrol and bin charges even before the rises.

Nate--IRL--

Chinasea wrote: »

Robust exact examples please?

They voted as a party to endorse the creation of NAMA.

Nate

Chinasea

tayto lover wrote: »

They were "mad" to the people who were getting it hard to afford the heating oil, petrol and bin charges even before the rises.

Oh that mad, thought so.

tayto lover

Chinasea wrote: »

Oh that mad, thought so.

Good for you. That "mad" has them where they are now.

Banjo String

Chinasea wrote: »

You mentioned madcap. Not seeing how these measures/taxes are "mad" as you call them.

Their ludicrous motor tax policies decimated the second hand car market just in time for the credit crunch, rememu that time when it was pretty difficult to obtain credit to upgrade to a lower based emission one from the banks or finance companies?

Punishment for not being financially able to upgrade, while those well enough off to afford these newer, lower based emission cars basically got luxury goods without the extortianate yearly tax rates (those most able to afford it escaped it)

I reckon that was nutty as squirrel dung, but there ya go, it was a green policy after all.