Campervan Overweight at DOE

Linoge

Hi,

I've just put my campervan through the DOE for the first time and it failed because it is 500kg overweight. The camper was factory built, but the weight on the plate is not acceptable as this has been manually changed. Does anyone know how I can go about getting this certified to pass the DOE?

Thank you

spaceHopper

You need to get it replated what did the doe centre say they should be able to tell you where to get it done

nailer8

I had a case of this recently and all that needed to be done was to order a new manufactures plate from the main dealer of the base vehicle based on the chassis number.

However if the weight has been rated above the original base vehicle's GVW you need to go to the camper builder for a new plate.
The RSA are pretty sticky on uprating vehicle weights though. So be prepared for some hassle.


If it was only a small bit over weight id say just try to empty anything portable out of it to get it as light as possible. e.g. all water, gas bottles, bedding, contents of presses etc but no chance you could get it down by 500kg.

Buford T Justice

nailer8 wrote: »

I had a case of this recently and all that needed to be done was to order a new manufactures plate from the main dealer of the base vehicle based on the chassis number.

However if the weight has been rated above the original base vehicle's GVW you need to go to the camper builder for a new plate.
The RSA are pretty sticky on uprating vehicle weights though. So be prepared for some hassle.


If it was only a small bit over weight id say just try to empty anything portable out of it to get it as light as possible. e.g. all water, gas bottles, bedding, contents of presses etc but no chance you could get it down by 500kg.

All well and good until you load up and head off for your hol's with a full tank of diesel and water and food galore and some snotty RSA or Vosa git shoves you onto a weighbridge

nailer8

This is true of course and i dont want to encourage anyone to break the law.

I would ask however, why do camper manufacturers leave such tiny payload capacities when they build campers. My own 3.5t sprinter would be overloaded very easily. Id say 4 adults and a modest amt of water and luggage would do it.

Also, realistically has anyone ever been weighed?
Abroad maybe but in ireland id be amazed.

Anyone know what the penalty would be?

pastense

Being over 3.5 tonnes is a problem but you could throw everything out to get it under that for the Test but the difficulty for a lot of people is when they are weighed (if) and are over the weight, is it the vehicles capability to carry it or the C1 license required to drive it
that is the bigger problem.
I'd say the police are more interested in the license than the weight unless 'grossly' overloaded as to be obviously unsafe.
Personally I'd be happier if I had the license.

nailer8

I have had people say that to me.
"Im ok as i have the licence for a truck so its not a big deal that my camper is overweight."

I would see it differently.
The licence is for the category of vehicle not its actual weight.
If you drive an empty 7 tonne truck weighing say 3 tonne with a car licence you are still totally illegal because it is based on its plated GVW not its weight on the day.
Therefore i would see an overloaded camper in breach of weight laws but i don't think you would be summonsed for incorrect licence as you have the correct licence for the GVW of the vehicle. That said i'm no lawyer so its just my 2c.

pastense

I don't have any issue with what you say, just making the point that Police may be more interested in the license than the weight if not grossly overloaded and presenting a danger.

I do think that we don't pay enough attention to 'payload' or proper license but we don't get pulled over very often and up until the Test it wasn't an issue at all really.

How many people selling a camper, trade or private, would have felt it necessary to mention about a C1 on a van over 3.5 tonnes.

But now, if it was a trade purchase particularly, it would be at least reckless not to check.

Linoge

Thanks for all the replies. The DOE guy was less than helpful. Even was saying that he couldnt fasten the seatbelt because a cushion was in the way. Will contact the dealer and see what they can do for me

nailer8

Id be curious myself on what the attitude of the police would be, fingers crossed i never find out first hand.
I am working in the commercial vehicle business 15 years and never heard of someone in a LGV (i.e. .5t van) being done for overloading despite knowing loads of customers who routinely do it. Trucks generally are let off if within 1000kgs of their GVW/GCW but then if the GCW is 46 tonne thats only 2% if a camper is 500kg over weight thats likely to be 15%

Anyway none of this is helping the OP.
Linoge if your base vehicle is a Mercedes i may be able to help you as we are main dealers otherwise best of luck.

pastense

Linoge wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. The DOE guy was less than helpful. Even was saying that he couldnt fasten the seatbelt because a cushion was in the way. Will contact the dealer and see what they can do for me

Best of luck with it.

I think we need a thread on the boards to advise of Test centres which have an understanding and professionalism with regard to camper vans and it might prevent people from being both treated shoddily or indeed unfairly. The omission of certain places, like where cushions prevent the closing of a seatbelt, will be understood.

Aidan_M_M

We do!

niloc1951

There are many many campers out there, particularly older imported ones, which were officially uprated and that uprating recorded on the documents and database of its country of origin.
Back along, up until the early naughties some manufacturers simple stamped the new weight on the existing plate instead of fixing a new plate. We therefore now have a group of campers with the amended plate causing problems.

These problems have resulted from the laissez faire attitude and incompetence exhibited by those responsible for issuing the vehicles Irish Vehicle Registration Certificate, where vital details, like its GVW, were either not transferred from its original certificate or incorrectly recorded. So there is now no reliable official record of the vehicles GVW, BTW the number of seats (people which the vehicle can legally carry) is another common victim.

As regards operating a vehicle over its GVW there is another measure which comes into play, that is its MTPLM (Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass)
Now say a vehicle is technically capable of being used at say 4,000kg, it has the brakes, suspension, tyres, etc. suitable for such a weight, but its plate says 3,500kg. Here I am thinking of a motorhome I know which was put on the market by its manufacturer rated as 4.000kg GVW but down plated to 3,500kg so it could be driven by a B licence holder. If that person was stopped by police and the vehicle weighed and found to be over 3,500kg. There would be no prosecution for not having the correct licence and while the vehicle may be 'overloaded' by reference to its plate, it could not be proven that it was being operated in an unsafe manner, so long as it wasn't over 4,000kg.

Of course if Ireland fulfilled its obligations under Article 2 of Directive 2012/36/EU any person requiring a licence to drive a motorhome over 3,500kg GVW could apply for the special restricted C1(97) which the Directive says should be cheaper and easier to get than the unrestricted C or C1.

nailer8

That doesn't solve your CVRT (DOE) test problem however.

The test lane is programmed to simply refuse to test the vehicle if its weight on the day exceeds the GVW on the National Vehicle file. There is no way around it - fill the camper with Helium balloons ;-)

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

That doesn't solve your CVRT (DOE) test problem however.

The test lane is programmed to simply refuse to test the vehicle if its weight on the day exceeds the GVW on the National Vehicle file. There is no way around it - fill the camper with Helium balloons ;-)

I have seen many motor caravans with a GVW of 1kg showing at F1 on the RF101
If it's 1kg on the Registration Cert. is that not the same as what's on the NVDF or do the VTN centres interface with a database different from the one from which an RF101 printed
Surely the hard copy certificates and database data should be in sync and no differing copies of the database should be in parallel use.

nailer8

Actually i was incorrect. As you said the NVDF is missing a lot of GVW's and the CVRT centres are permitted to edit this field provided they are satisfied with plate on the vehicle (or documentation etc). As far as i know this is then updated on the NVDF once the test is processed but wouldn't be 100% sure of this.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

Actually i was incorrect. As you said the NVDF is missing a lot of GVW's and the CVRT centres are permitted to edit this field provided they are satisfied with plate on the vehicle (or documentation etc). As far as i know this is then updated on the NVDF once the test is processed but wouldn't be 100% sure of this.

ooooh, leaves it right open to a brown envelop being produced to an unscrupulous operator.

"Look Mr. Operator the crowd in Shannon cocked up my vehicles details when I imported it, honestly the over-stamped GVW is the correct one, I would be very grateful ;) if you would edit that field in the NVDF to sort it"

JonMac

I am booked in next Monday, 26th, at a different centre than was used last time by the dealer.

Last time's CRW has the DGVW at 1 kg; ULW at 3120 kg.

Registration certificate has F1 Permissible Mass at 1kg.

Vehicle [Dethleffs] is plated 3200kg; axles 1690 and 1750.

Two questions:

1. What is going on?
2. Can I expect problems?

Thanks.

niloc1951

JonMac wrote: »

I am booked in next Monday, 26th, at a different centre than was used last time by the dealer.

Last time's CRW has the DGVW at 1 kg; ULW at 3120 kg.

Registration certificate has F1 Permissible Mass at 1kg.

Vehicle [Dethleffs] is plated 3200kg; axles 1690 and 1750.

Two questions:

1. What is going on?
2. Can I expect problems?

Thanks.

Motorhomes with a plated weight of 3,200kg can easily be overweight, particularly if there's lots of storage space. I would make sure your water tank is empty and just to be safe leave all unnecessary stuff at home.

Incidentally, just doing the maths, if the plated GVW is 3,200kg and the Unladen Weight was 3,120kg when weighed when last going through its CRW test, that gives a payload of only 80 kg, equal to just one average weight adult, :eek::eek:

In reality the 3,120kg was not the ULW, as it would be for a commercial vehicle presented for test empty of all goods/burden, it would have been the actual weight of your motorhome including all its contents at the time.

If you feel you need an increased payload margin you could contact SV Tech an have a chat with them, they are very helpful.
Your vehicle's axle weights of 1690kg and 1750kg add up to 3,440kg so SV Tech, who are authorised to issue documents and new plates showing increased/decreased GVW's, could if your vehicle is suitable, authorise a GVW of 3,400kg without the need for modifications. The extra 200kg payload will help to keep you legal.

Macspower

is weighing at the DOE a new thing?

Reason I ask is one of our company vehicles is always close to the weight limit of 3500, I know last year we tested it with a full load on and it passed no problem. This year it was about 3/4 full with full fuel and it came in at 3600 and they couldn't test it as it was over. We took some stuff off and passed no problem..

I can imagine my 6 berth hymer is pretty heavy .. DOE now due so we'll see

JonMac

I'm still confused. Recently the dealer took it to his local DoE tester [who issued last year's cert.] to sort out the LSV and it weighed 2797kg [with half a tank of water].
Where would 3120kg come from? That was just before we took ownership, so basically empty.
We went to a weighbridge last year and almost fully kitted out it came to around 3000kg.

nailer8

The weighing happens during the brake test. Load cells are built into the testing machine which weighs each axle and adds them up to get the total. It has been there as long as the modern computerised brake testers have been used but i think it has only really become a problem since all the brake testers got directly linked to COVIS (RSA's own software).

BTW i don't think the ULW has anything to do with the weight for the last DOE test, in my experience the ULW is measured at the time of first registration (or import) and it doesn't change unless you weigh it again at a authorised weigh bridge and get it changed in the tax office. A lot of commercial vehicles come in for DOE loaded and it doesn't cause their ULW to change which would change their road tax bracket.

An 80KG payload is ludicrous. With the driver and a full tank of fuel you'd be over weight. Throw in some water, gas, 3 other adults and a few spuds and you could be 300kg over.

niloc1951

JonMac wrote: »

I'm still confused. Recently the dealer took it to his local DoE tester [who issued last year's cert.] to sort out the LSV and it weighed 2797kg [with half a tank of water].
Where would 3120kg come from? That was just before we took ownership, so basically empty.
We went to a weighbridge last year and almost fully kitted out it came to around 3000kg.

Question,
Are the weighing machines subject to Weights & Measure certification, I suspect not as they are not used to weigh/measure goods being commercially transacted.

If that is the case the weight they display can be inaccurate to any degree

nailer8

The ULW must be done at an authorised weighbridge (each county council should have a list of bridges) which are verified by the Legal Metrology Service or an authorised verifier on their behalf.

The brake testers are calibrated annually and traceable back to national standards but are not verified by the Legal Metrology because they are not used for trade.

In your case it looks like who ever went for the ULW did it with a load on it. I dont think it is anything to worry about, ULW is important for road tax calculations on HGV's but i wouldn't think it has any relevance for campers.
Never heard of anyone being in trouble for being under the ULW. Most of the time the RSA are trying to catch HGV's who have fiddled the ULW to try to get it lower (e.g. weight the truck before the body is built).

Edit: I wonder was someone trying to get it over the 3 Tonne rule to avoid VRT under the old system! Doesn't apply any more but did up to a few years ago.

JonMac

Edit: I wonder was someone trying to get it over the 3 Tonne rule to avoid VRT under the old system! Doesn't apply any more but did up to a few years ago.

Could well be, it was imported in 2003.

Weighbridge last year 2 adults, full water, diesel was 2980kg.

nailer8

Say nothing so. I am sure the Revenue could come back for their VRT if they ever found out.

The time i brought in my first camper from the UK the lady in the revenue warned me i would not get away with any load, no gas, no water, nothing in the presses and she checked. I have heard of people hiding lead in capers to get them over the 3t limit.

niloc1951

nailer8 wrote: »

The ULW must be done at an authorised weighbridge (each county council should have a list of bridges) which are verified by the Legal Metrology Service or an authorised verifier on their behalf.

The brake testers are calibrated annually and traceable back to national standards but are not verified by the Legal Metrology because they are not used for trade.

In your case it looks like who ever went for the ULW did it with a load on it. I dont think it is anything to worry about, ULW is important for road tax calculations on HGV's but i wouldn't think it has any relevance for campers.
Never heard of anyone being in trouble for being under the ULW. Most of the time the RSA are trying to catch HGV's who have fiddled the ULW to try to get it lower (e.g. weight the truck before the body is built).

Edit: I wonder was someone trying to get it over the 3 Tonne rule to avoid VRT under the old system! Doesn't apply any more but did up to a few years ago.

Like Cars, motor caravans seem not to be required to have their unladen weight recorded, mine wasn't and I have seen many many RF101's for motor caravans with the field blank, but my car is down at 55,555kg but then it's wheel base is recorded as 55,555 metres and it engine power is 5,555,555 KW, but it has no axles, perhaps the crowd at Shannon think it's some kind of a space rocket .

The 3,000kg threshold mentioned for VRT was simply a revenue test to determine the VRT category.

Fact: My motorhome was recently issued with a Certificate of Roadworthiness showing an ULW which was at least 12% different from the weight at which it was tested
Also, the rear passenger seatbelts weren't checked, I forgot to take them out from behind the cushions :rolleyes:
And, the infamous indelibly marked VIN wasn't checked either