What is Bray like to live in?

redser34

Myself and my partner are looking to move out of our apartment with our young son in the next few months into a house. We are looking to rent out our apartment as it is getting too small for us and rent a house ourselves. However, the price of rent in and around South Co Dublin where we live are so astronomical we would have no hope of making ends meet if we were to stay in our area.
Having looked on rental websites though, Bray seems to have the most reasonable rents. I know though that Bray has a name for being rough though and this might reflect the cheap rent. Was kind of hoping though that some areas are okay and was wondering where to avoid.Would really appreciate any feedback. (Good or bad!) Many thanks

Calibos

Look at Bray in Satellite view on Google Maps. Mentally pick up Bray and move it up the coast to Dun Laoghaire. Bray would stretch from Dun Laoghaire to Dalkey, down to Glenageary, through Cabinteely and Cornelscourt to Deansgrange and back to Dun Laoghaire with Sallynoggin in the middle.

If someone in any of those areas was to compare their crime rate to Brays, they could say Bray has a worse crime rate.

Compare Brays Crime rate to all those areas combined though??? I would say we actually have an exceedingly low crime rate for an area our size and population.

Of course Bray has some rough areas like any other town. We have our fair share of smackheads too but the way some people go on you'd think the main street was like the boardwalk or something.

Bray has an image problem. Mention you are from Bray here on boards and you'll inevitably get comments like, "Jaysus, your from Brrraaaayyyy!! Brayruit haha" etc etc

Our problem was we imported 'Dublins Finest' every weekend in on the Dart since the early 80's. Visitors based their opinion on Bray based on the type of people they saw around them when they visited. What they were in effect doing would be akin to someone saying that D4 is a terribly rough area because they visited while Funderland was on in the RDS.

A funny thing happened in 2006. The Darts closed for line upgrades every weekend for the entire Summer of 2006. A walk on the promenade at the weekend suddenly didn't have that air of menace Ever since the prom is packed, not with gangs of feral teenagers out on the Dart for the day but with thousands of people. Families having a picnic, dog walkers, joggers, people down for a stroll after lunch/coffee/dinner, etc etc etc. Lots of restaurants and coffeeshops have popped up and are doing a roaring trade even in this economic climate. Theres an Ice Cream Parlour on the promende side of the aquarium building that had large queues in the middle of Winter for cryin' out loud.

Something else funny started happening on the other side of Dublin from the Summer of 2006 onwards. The riots during Summer weekends in Portmarnock. (Google or Youtube search Portmarnock Riots) It seems our 'loss' was their 'gain' so to speak.

The cycle was broken that Summer of 2006. Dublins finest did not return in anywhere near the same kind of numbers. They had found a new playground Haven't seen Bray Head ablaze since then either now that I think of it

In short, the seafront has been Gentrified for the most part. (Only the funfair seems to bring some of the old element out when its in Bray for a couple of weeks around Air Spectacular time.

Brays image whether deserved or not has affected investment down through the years whether it been investment in ourselves or inwards investment from outside the area. "Brraaaayyyy, Jaysus, I'm not investing my money there". Its my belief that if we can get it through to people that Bray is no rougher than any other area the same size and population nor ever really was and in fact despite peoples impressions has an enviably low crime rate given its geographical and population statistics. ie Give ourselves an image refresh, that just like in the past when Bray was known as "The Brighton of Ireland", we can be that again. Just like Brighton in the UK became a depressed run down area a shadow of its former self but is now a vibrant, colourful, diverse, arty, cafe culture, etc etc basically desireable area to live in. Bray can emulate the new Brighton just like it emulated the old over a century ago.

Is Bray rough around the edges. Yes (Figuratively not literally, though I guess the rougher areas are Bray are around the edges ) Does it look run down in areas? Yes. Is it depressing seeing so many closed shopfronts. Yes. It doesn't have to be that way and if we can get more locals never mind outsiders to understand the reasons why its this way maybe they would understand and help change it back to the way it should be. This town has so much potential its not funny.

I'm not a Bray councilor nor do I work for the Tourist Office.I'm just a happy resident who wouldn't want to live anywhere else tbh. Where else would you get it. 40 minutes from the capital by train, 2 minutes from the beach, 10 minutes from the beautiful Wicklow mountains. Look, we even have our own micro-climate. Watch the Wicklow Mountains soak up most of the rain on the prevailing SW winds on the rainfal radar. If its raining in Bray, its likely bucketing out of the heavens the other side of the Wicklow/Dublin mountains in the exposed Dublin plain. If Bray gets 2 inches of Snow then outside our Wicklow/Dublin Mountain cocoon its probably 10 inches. The Fohn effect cause by us being in the lee of the Wicklow mountains means just a little bit back from the Seafront its usually about 2 degrees warmer in Bray than the rest of Dublin or Wicklow.

We just have to figure out a way of convincing people of this without being un-PC and spelling it out. "Bray isn't rough, It was all the Dublin Skangers out at the weekends!!"

Sugarlumps

Fair play Calibos, sums it up to a tee in my opinion.

Alun

I agree, it's a great place to live, and has the potential to be even better. Like any town there are rough areas, but give us an idea of where you're looking and we can advise.

Judgement Day

I was with you most of the way Calibos until you mentioned 'dog walkers on the promenade' - Bray patented fouling by dogs before it was discovered elsewhere. If I mention Bray to some of my friends who were at school there in the early 1970's they always ask is "Dog Sh1t Alley" still there aka Albert Walk.

Annasopra

Judgement Day wrote: »

I was with you most of the way Calibos until you mentioned 'dog walkers on the promenade' - Bray patented fouling by dogs before it was discovered elsewhere. If I mention Bray to some of my friends who were at school there in the early 1970's they always ask is "Dog Sh1t Alley" still there aka Albert Walk.

amtw

I moved to Bray from Dublin 25 years ago and I think it's a great place to live.

Calibos

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That said, I'd be the first to admit that the Albert Walk would be one of the areas in Bray that has changed least in the last 40 years

My bugbear with the Albert Ave/Walk is Players Casino. Don't so much have a problem with the Casino itself per se but the fact that they bought all the units in and around the old Roxy Cinema building, extended the casino into them, built block walls behind the windows but left the windows and metal shutters in place on the facades. In other words, although its all the one business premises now, it looks like a load of shop units that have been shuttered up for decades and makes the locality look like a business No-Go area.

The section 23 tax break status for the Albert walk came at the wrong time and had too many conditions so was not taken advantage of.

Ianrod Eireann in their infinite Wisdom thought it would be a great idea to include Albert Walk facing shop units to their proposed Multi Story Carpark on the Eastern/Seaward side of Albert Walk. Granted, that could have turned Albert Walk into a nice little shopping arcade/precinct. However, in their planning application and promotional material, they basically picked one of every type of local business within 200 yards in the area and placed them in the artwork/architectural plans. Needless to say, every existing local business objected as a result.

Dogsh1t levels in the prime dog walking areas in Bray would be a lot less than 40 years ago. People everywhere don't let their dogs roam unaccompanied anymore like back in the day and the majority pick up after their dogs these days. That said, just like the rest of the country there is still a sizable minority of lazy ignorant fcukers who don't. I'd be unlucky enough to step in dog sh1t 2 or 3 times a year these days while in the halcyon days of the 80's it'd be 2 or 3 times a week

NobodyImportant

I moved to Bray 5 years ago from Dublin and love it. Try to get within walking distances to the seafront. To take a stroll down there at 8am of a sunny morning is a great thing to be able to do.

20 mins drive and you are in Glendalough, 50 mins on the DART and you are in the City centre. Bottom of the M50 on the doorstep too.

Annasopra

I just think its ridiculous when someone asks what is Bray like to live in that they get a moan about something 40 years ago.

Calibos

Forgot about the M50. Both a blessing and a curse for Bray. A blessing that it makes the likes of Dundrum SC only 10minutes away by car. A curse that it makes the likes if Dundrum SC only 10 minutes away by car

If only we in Bray had the foresight and the image to attract investment and build the likes of Dundrum or Arklow SC's before they did, then, the N11/M50 would have been their gateway to us not ours to them

Yeah it's great though. In heavy northbound traffic all the way, I got from Bray to Clondalkin in about 35minutes a few weeks ago. IKEA the same. Airport in 20 minutes if your dropping someone to a flight in the wee hours.

Looks like we won't be hearing back from the OP. He only seems to post once a year and has used up his 2014 one

Alun

Calibos wrote: »

Airport in 20 minutes if your dropping someone to a flight in the wee hours.

Depending on where you're coming from in Bray it's the guts of 50km to the airport, which would mean an average speed, door to door, of 150km/h.

Calibos

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I just think its ridiculous when someone asks what is Bray like to live in that they get a moan about something 40 years ago.

That's Judgement day for ya. he hasn't lived here himself for nearly 40 years either. That Brighton place in the UK is a terrible depressing dog fouled seaside sh!thole too by all accounts.

Calibos

Alun wrote: »

Depending on where you're coming from in Bray it's the guts of 50km to the airport, which would mean an average speed, door to door, of 150km/h.

I never said that I didn't take liberties with the speed limit!

Let's be fair though, in normal traffic just going with the flow on that road will have you doing about 135kph. It's probably the safest road in the country to average 150kph on in the wee hours empty of cars and dry road surface.

brayblue24

Calibos wrote: »

Looks like we won't be hearing back from the OP. He only seems to post once a year and has used up his 2014 one

:D

Made me laugh

Dr. Bre

Bray is grand but they always blame the dubs for their sh*t hole problems

redser34

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. You have managed to paint a more positive picture of Bray than I would have originally envisioned!
Just one last question to any Bray Mums. Was wondering what it is like for facilities for young children. I have a young toddler and was wondering if there are many playgroups or any
playgrounds around to meet other Mums and Dads. Also I was wondering what school options are for when hes older and if there are any educate together schools in Bray? Thanks again.

doolox

I have a weekly business commitment in Bray and it is one of my favourite destinations for the people and some of the shopping. I get most of my fresh veg in a shop on the northern side of town near the roundabout connecting the M11/M50 to the town. I get good takeaway at the seafront and there is a thriving coffee shop, icecream shop on the seafront as well, near the aquarium.
While I am about my business engagement, which takes about 1 1/2 hrs my family like to come down with me if they are off from school/work etc, not something you can say for any of my other engagements locations.

At the height of the summer the traffic can be maddening but once you park the car and get out and walk the experience is very pleasant.

Judgement Day

Calibos wrote: »

That's Judgement day for ya. he hasn't lived here himself for nearly 40 years either. That Brighton place in the UK is a terrible depressing dog fouled seaside sh!thole too by all accounts.

I'll have you know I'm only gone a quarter of a century! Anyway, I do visit every few years and I'm not impressed by what I see - save for one spotless chipper on the seafront. Bray has a wonderful location, great transport links and an outstandingly beautiful hinterland but it's how the place has been let go that depresses me. The OP might like to examine this thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055539769 lots of negativity from JD, of course, but some others in agreement with me.

Calibos

Don't think much of that thread contradicts much of what any of us have said in this thread tbh.

We acknowledge the crime but point out that when one really thinks about the size of the town and population we probably have a lower than average crime-rate. We acknowledge the mis-management of the town. We acknowledge the depressingly empty shop units and the dearth of big name stores. Derelict or run down properties dotted around the place etc. This we know is not entirely recession based but has been a decades old problem for Bray. However, what has also been a decades old problem? Its image. People are loath to invest in a place that has (unfairly IMHO) been deemed a feral youth infested kip. We acknowledge the place had been 'let go'. While you may be overstating some of the problems or are unaware of positive developements in certain areas, on the whole you and others in the linked thread do have valid points which we don't deny. I merely propose a possible reason why it went on a downwards spiral and why despite the ongoing recession I believe there is hope for the future of the town and for it to 'Be all that it can be' to put a cheesy american sentimental turn of phrase on it. I think I finally see the the start of Brays climb back to realising its full potential that we all, defenders and critics alike, see and want for the town.

If the seafront is a microcosm for the entire town then I am very hopeful for the future of the rest of the town. Like I said, and to use Dr Bre' delightful turn of phrase, "I blame the Dubs for our 'sh1thole' problems". The evidence is plain to see. Bray seafront rapidly improved after Dart Closure at weekends for the entire Summer of 2006. Portmarnock rapidly disimproved from the Summer of 2006 onwards. Dublins finest found a new playground. Youtube videos of the Portmarnock riots show the type of Dublin feral youth that we used to import to the seafront every weekend but which everyone for the last few decades assumed were home grown. The torrent every weekend became a trickle ever since. The seafront got itself an image refresh. Theres a thriving cafe culture developing down there now. Finbee's have been so successful they've basically paid to complete the facade refresh of the aquarium building and excavated the basement for a fabulous new cafe on the south side of the building. People are noticing and realising the seafront area is worth investing in now and are doing it and being successful at it. If we can image refresh the whole town we can get the ball rolling elsewhere in the town. Just like there was a snowball effect on the way down, there can be a snowball effect on the way back up.


It seems Dr Bre thinks I am blaming all Dubs. No, just the ones that for the last generation or three left dirty nappies everywhere, left the seafront in a state, told their kids to 'Fcuk off' with a pound or two, back to the amusements for another 2 or 3 hours while they drank themselves legless or poured their coins into the slots like automatons. The poor kids who went feral and came back to Bray alone in their teens with bags full of cans for their bonfires on Bray Head or to intimidate people on the seafront of have a bargy with our local feral youth contingent. The same kids who a few short years later would be back again with their own kids who'd they in turn like their parents before them would send off to the amusements with a euro with "Fcuk Off" ringing in their years. (I worked one of the seafront bars for years, I've seen it all) No Dr Bre. I don't blame all Dubs. Just some of them. However, it seems that cycle was broken that Summer of 2006 and the seafront has started reaping the rewards.

'Broken Window' and 'Gentrification' theory in action.

Of course we in Bray must take some of the blame for the towns fortunes ourselves, however there is no denying IMHO that a lot can be traced back to the towns image problem and the image problem can be traced back in large part to......

Lovely place to live few dodgy spots as with any large town and traffic can be mental but really enjoy living here two years now

Annasopra

Yes theres an educate together primary school and just announced that a new secondary school will be built too

Slutmonkey57b

Schools in Bray are well funded and better than you might assume. The problem is that in the bigger schools, there is a lack of academic expectation for pupils and while schools try, the basic level pupils start from counts against them.

The focus, unless you are able to get into one of the smaller schools, is on containing truancy, not pushing children academically. Like all schools in south Dublin/Wicklow, the pressure on places is quite high too.

redser34

Thanks guys. Slutmonkey57b, you have given me food for thought. As with most Mums my child is my priority and want my child to have the best start in life. Therefore a good school is ultimately important to me. I also worry about the fact we would be applying for a school place when my child is a toddler as opposed to when hes a newborn like a lot of parents. It concerns me that there might not be any room for him anywhere! Thanks again for your input.

Slutmonkey57b

I don't have experience of all the schools but here is what I've learned so far:
"Schools Road": This has Fergal's Junior and Senior NS, and Kilian's Secondary.
Fergal's Junior is a really excellent school. The teachers are good, it's well run, well resourced and the kids are keen to learn. Discipline is good and bad pupils are dealt with.
Fergal's senior has a principal who has spent most of the past 15 years on sabbatical having a political career and it shows. Standards drop a lot, there is a lack of direction, and the pupils start to get influenced by badly behaved/anti-education/more "hormonal" older kids, which is what you'd expect at that age. However, the school doesn't deal with it well and class sizes are larger.
Kilians I was keen to avoid but having toured the school, read its reports and taken a closer look I'm happier with it. I don't expect a very academically tough environment but it seems like the principal has a handle on things, and there are good opportunities for learning. We'll see what the classroom environment is like. Truancy rate is about 25% which the cynic in me tends to think "good, that's the 25% of pupils who would be disrupting the classrooms anyway". They have a very big programme for dealing with these students and special classes to allow the ones who missed out academically in NS to catch up (which again, cyncially means "good, they're not slowing down the pace of learning in the other classes").
Bray School Project: Technically not on schools road but is around the corner. This is the educate together NS and has a reputation for being a better NS than Fergals. I would say that for 3-6th class, that's probably true but it wouldn't beat the Junior school.

Andrews NS is supposed to be good, but is small and places are hard to get.

Presentation College (pres): Has a very bad reputation with former pupils, everyone who went there seems to hate it.

There are the fee paying schools like Gerard's and Loreto, but I assume the motto there is "you get what you pay for".

Due to the location, a lot of kids from bray go further afield for secondary. The old maxim would be that the Protestant schools are better quality and higher achievers. That's probably true to a degree, but don't discount the fact that there are fewer of them, a smaller base of "feeder" schools, and the parents are likely to be pickier as a result. Doesn't mean they're actually better run.

One thing I would say is don't consider Greystones. Major problems with pupil behaviour and all the yummy mummies in their X5's send their kids to fee paying schools elsewhere.

I found the department of education's school reports to be very good actually. It's tempting to dismiss these as beaurocratic time-wasting but I found their reports generally tallied with my experience of schools I have direct knowledge of, so I'd trust their judgement.

B0jangles

redser34 wrote: »

Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. You have managed to paint a more positive picture of Bray than I would have originally envisioned!
Just one last question to any Bray Mums. Was wondering what it is like for facilities for young children. I have a young toddler and was wondering if there are many playgroups or any
playgrounds around to meet other Mums and Dads. Also I was wondering what school options are for when hes older and if there are any educate together schools in Bray? Thanks again.

FYI there is a nice new playground under construction at the moment in the green space at the south end of the Seafront

Calibos

I'm going to let others weigh in on the schools front for the most part because I don't have kids but Slutmonkey57bs posts did raise my eyebrows.

I've a feeling that comments like 'focus on containing truancy', 'not pushing children academically', 'there is a lack of academic expectation for pupils' won't go un-countered by other posters.

SM75b makes it sound like nearly every school in Bray is like a deprived inner city school??

Pres. Has a bad reputation?? News to me??
Loreto is fee paying? News to me??

Ditto for comments about the Greystones schools. Residents from Greystones I am sure will weigh in on that front.

The one secondary school I would never have sent any kids I had to because of the type of unfortunate kid I saw filling the uniform would have been St Thomas' Community School on the Novara Road. Don't get me wrong. Still a majority of good pupils but a much higher percentage of likely troublemakers, class disrupters etc. That school however is closed to enrollments and is winding down afaik. The School campus will then be taken over fully by the BIFE (Bray institute of Further Education, largest in country?) which have been co-located with St Thomas' for over 25 years. Despite that last year out of the 24 pupils sitting the Leaving Cert at St Thomas', 16 went to University/Third level. Thats 66%. Loreto is 75%. St Brendans 74%, Pres Bray 90% St Killians 38%

My figures came from here: http://www.schooldays.ie/secondary-schools-in-ireland/Wicklow

Click on Bray school and then on left menu click College Progression Stats

zoobizoo

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Presentation College (pres): Has a very bad reputation with former pupils, everyone who went there seems to hate it.

There are the fee paying schools like Gerard's and Loreto, but I assume the motto there is "you get what you pay for".

I went to Pres and left in the early 90s. It was a good school. I think it took a bit of a turn after that but now it is thriving.

They have really turned it around. There was a student survey recently which really showed how well it had come along. Many students proud to say that they are going there.

Loreto in Bray isn't fee paying.

Calibos

I think now is a great time to buy/rent in Bray while we still have something of an undeserved 'reputation' and prices are depressed more than they should be. Its a great place to live 'AS IS' and when we reach our potential which I feel we are much more likely to do now than in the past, its going to be a extremely desirable town as large towns go to live in. For the foreseeble most investment and job creation is going to happen in Dublin for better or worse in terms of the rest of the country. As a result there is already pressure on house prices and rents in Dublin again as the OP already knows because thats the reason they are looking further afield to Bray. For a town 21km from the City Centre of Dublin we are better connected to Dublin than most areas of Dublin itself. 5 Minutes on the M50 to the Ballyogan Luas Terminus too. There were plans in the past to continue the line the last couple of miles to Bray and they might follow through on this in a few more years.

Brays biggest problem of all is ill-informed or out-dated impressions/opinions people have of the place

I'm reminded of a thread a few weeks ago where someone said they wouldn't shop in Tescos on the Vevay road because it was full of undesirables. I thought they were taking the piss. They weren't. If they considered the clientele of that Tescos undesirable than by that measure Bray is indeed a town full of undesirables almost to the last man woman and child. It makes me wonder what planet are some of the people on who often chime in when Bray is mentioned about how the couldn't wait to get out because of all the *******s. Hopefully they eventually found a good home in their ivory towers.

Annasopra

That post from sm57b about schools is absolute nonsense!

Slutmonkey57b

Everyone seems to have missed the "my experience" part of my post.

I am not a schools inspector. I haven't interviewed every student who came out of Pres in the last 40 years. I haven't seen the inside of every school.

Of the people I've met who went to Pres, 100% of them hated it and said it was a bad school. Is your experience different? Feel free to weigh in. That doesn't mean my statement was false, simply my experience isn't all encompassing. Which I stated at the beginning.