''Shocking'' racist message on n7

bodice ripper

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Lets just say ive had conversations with people about this subject many a time. I wouldn't be wrong in saying i feel like a tourist at times in Dublin city center.

Do wonder what the same situation will be like in say ten years time?

I also feel the word racist has lost its meaning at this stage.

Dude, you need to get out of Ireland more. This is the most homogeneously native country that I have ever been in. Less so than when I emigrated here in the 1980's, and thank **** for that.

darkpagandeath

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

do their kids count as non-nationals? you know the ones that hang out with our kids in school and have irish accents?

Does that depend if it's "Roight" or "Story bud" :pac:

FTA69

Piliger wrote: »

I personally find the casual, lazy and politically motivated abuse of the word “Racist” to be disgusting and revolting.
Throwing around the term and slapping on everyone and anyone who says stuff you don’t like just eviscerates it’s meaning, diminished the whole sickening meaning of being Racist, and destroys the very basis of the language.
Does anyone have a dictionary at hand ? Does language and it’s actual meaning matter to anyone in this whole fiasco ?
These signs are not about race, but are about xenophobia.
We CAN be xenophobic, bigoted and prejudiced and discriminatory and many other bad things. Everything doesn’t have to be Racist !
It’s time we paused … and considered what the right word is the next time we describe this kind of bigotry.
Slapping the WRONG words on this stuff just incites the discussion, totally mis-describes the issue and shows our own ignorance. It also diminishes the seriousness of real racism when it occurs.

Racism encompasses discrimination against nationality and ethnicity also.

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Definitions

Bloe Joggs

Hotale.com wrote: »

We are moulded by our culture though, that won't change.

If everyone only cared about what I personally have achieved I don't think many people would care about me :pac:

True enough we are moulded by culture, but that culture isn't uniform by a long shot, to a huge extent it's got to do with the choices we make, friends we keep, situations we find ourselves in (we can't control everything), where we went to school etc etc......it's not even remotely the same for everyone, everyone's journey is unique. You probably know people who were born and raised thousands of miles away but who you share a lot more in common with than people you grew up around.

Cultural nationalism aims to make those cultural models as uniform as possible, to assign a collective identity to everyone and to make that an attractive proposition because it makes it easier to run a society that way and satisfies the desires of the ruling class to engineer things in a certain way because they happen to like their chosen model.

Ash.J.Williams

Piliger wrote: »

I personally find the casual, lazy and politically motivated abuse of the word “Racist” to be disgusting and revolting.
Throwing around the term and slapping on everyone and anyone who says stuff you don’t like just eviscerates it’s meaning, diminished the whole sickening meaning of being Racist, and destroys the very basis of the language.
Does anyone have a dictionary at hand ? Does language and it’s actual meaning matter to anyone in this whole fiasco ?
These signs are not about race, but are about xenophobia.
We CAN be xenophobic, bigoted and prejudiced and discriminatory and many other bad things. Everything doesn’t have to be Racist !
It’s time we paused … and considered what the right word is the next time we describe this kind of bigotry.
Slapping the WRONG words on this stuff just incites the discussion, totally mis-describes the issue and shows our own ignorance. It also diminishes the seriousness of real racism when it occurs.

ah racism and xenophobia are worse than words

mikeym

Ive seen worse graffiti around Cork City thats very horrible to a certain race of people who I respect.

mcko

My kids' national school has loads of non nationals, I have non problem with this as most of the people I speak to seem ok
What annoys me is that when someone tries to maintain Irish Culture ect they are called racist.
I am a firm believer in live and let live but when you are in my house live by my rules. I don't think the minority should dictate policy, by all means live your life how you want to but look at what happened in other countries where you had immigration long before we had.
In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.
How long before muslims working in shops refuse to serve alcohol ect.
Before anyone says so no I am not a racist or Nazi.

Piliger

FTA69 wrote: »

Racism encompasses discrimination against nationality and ethnicity also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Definitions

No it doesn't. Just because the UN says it does doesn't make it so.

wendell borton

Hotale.com wrote: »

Even if the Irish do become a "minority" in Ireland I can never see it happening in rural Ireland. Seems to be no immigrants moving to rural parts.

The way things are going there won't be any irish either.

kunst nugget

Piliger wrote: »

No it doesn't. Just because the UN says it does doesn't make it so.

If the UN's definition isn't right, how's definition is?

Hotale.com

Why does it matter what word they use to describe it?

Caliden

mcko wrote: »

My kids' national school has loads of non nationals, I have non problem with this as most of the people I speak to seem ok
What annoys me is that when someone tries to maintain Irish Culture ect they are called racist.
I am a firm believer in live and let live but when you are in my house live by my rules. I don't think the minority should dictate policy, by all means live your life how you want to but look at what happened in other countries where you had immigration long before we had.
In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.
How long before muslims working in shops refuse to serve alcohol ect.
Before anyone says so no I am not a racist or Nazi.

With regards schools, I've several friends who are teachers and their main issue these days is with children of non-nationals (the child was born and raised here) who have zero english entering primary, literally zero.

The only time these children are exposed to the language are the 3-4 hours Monday-Friday and because of that they slow down the progress of the entire class.

To evaluate if this is a problem or not, remove the fact that the child's parents are non nationals. Would this be ok for a child (who was born and raised here) to not know how to speak the native language by the time they're 5/6 regardless of ethnicity?

Reekwind

mcko wrote: »

I am a firm believer in live and let live but when you are in my house live by my rules. I don't think the minority should dictate policy...

They are? News to me. I always thought that Ireland was run by middle-class white Catholic men. I had no idea that actual policy was being set by some secret committee of non-nationals.

In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.

So you think that it's okay that some countries imprison or deport people for preaching... and that Ireland should follow suit?

Simple question: why? What's it to you if some people convert to Islam? Would you be up in arms if it was Presbyterians or Moromans out on the streets?

Philo Beddoe

mcko wrote: »

In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.

So you're saying that we should be more like Saudi Arabia?

This is not your house.

El Weirdo

mcko wrote: »

In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed.

So fucking what? They're not forcing anyone to convert are they? I had a Jehovah's Witness call to my door this afternoon. I politely told him I wasn't interested and we both went about our day.

Isn't that the beauty of living in a tolerant society? That these people have the right to ask if people might be interested in their religion? Why lower your standards to those of less tolerant societies?

eviltimeban

mcko wrote: »

My kids' national school has loads of non nationals, I have non problem with this as most of the people I speak to seem ok
What annoys me is that when someone tries to maintain Irish Culture ect they are called racist.
I am a firm believer in live and let live but when you are in my house live by my rules. I don't think the minority should dictate policy, by all means live your life how you want to but look at what happened in other countries where you had immigration long before we had.
In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.
How long before muslims working in shops refuse to serve alcohol ect.
Before anyone says so no I am not a racist or Nazi.

Why "your rules" though? Who put you in charge?

And I see Jehovah's Witnesses every day outside the Dart station and I ignore them. You can ignore the Muslims too.

Da Shins Kelly

Surely the fact that people can preach openly about their religion without the fear of imprisonment or worse is indicative of a somewhat healthy society? We should be happy about the fact that we don't punish people for having different religious affiliations and whatnot like they might do in certain parts of the Middle East.

Reekwind

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Surely the fact that people can preach openly about their religion without the fear of imprisonment or worse is indicative of a somewhat healthy society? We should be happy about the fact that we don't punish people for having different religious affiliations and whatnot like they might do in certain parts of the Middle East.

I don't think you understand: they're Muslims!

artful_codger

I don't agree with the sentiment, but i really like the logo.

Sure i might give the aul anti-immigration a go then...

bb1234567

bodice ripper wrote: »

Dude, you need to get out of Ireland more. This is the most homogeneously native country that I have ever been in. Less so than when I emigrated here in the 1980's, and thank **** for that.

Ireland is far from homogenous, relative to the rest of the world it is a very ethnically diverse country.

bodice ripper

bb1234567 wrote: »

Ireland is far from homogenous, relative to the rest of the world it is a very ethnically diverse country.

Relative to the western world? Or relative to countries so poor that no one has a reason to emigrate there? (Ie, Ireland in the 1980s and before)

SterlingArcher

I thought this was Amurica?

shawnxxiong

I'm a foreigner in dublin, i didn't feel being insulted or anything racial on seeing those slogans. Just some people thinking loudly, that's all. But ireland do really need to echo all the emigrants back, because almost all of the irish classmates (who were really talented) in my college years prioritize the emigration after graduation.

Vito Corleone

LOL at their pathetic Nazi style symbol.

bb1234567

bodice ripper wrote: »

Relative to the western world? Or relative to countries so poor that no one has a reason to emigrate there? (Ie, Ireland in the 1980s and before)

andd..? It is still ethnically diverse no matter what way you look at it, it has a foreign popualtion of 15% which is more than what the majority of the worlds countries have.

Philo Beddoe

I hear you're a racist now, Father.

neamhspleachi

Vito Corleone wrote: »

LOL at their pathetic Nazi style symbol.

Pathetic indeed, much like the League of St. George or Combat 18 imposing the symbol of england, the red cross, into a circle

Reekwind

Triangla wrote: »

I would say xenophobic more than racist.

See, I don't buy this. The two are very much linked in these discussions. Nobody has ever complained about the number of French, German or English immigrants to Ireland. If anything, we're proud of that.

It's only when people from Eastern Europe, Africa or Asia arrive here that suddenly people get nervous about immigration and you get statements like 'I'm not racist but...'

Calling that xenophobia without questioning the underlying prejudices is, in my opinion, just a figleaf.

folan

save_me_some wrote: »

im not entirely convinced by this arguement , it more or less labels mid east countries as having a lower standard ( though acceptable by way of cultural difference etc ) while at the same time , demands that ireland must allow in people who bring with them , attitudes which are the norm on those countries

its both patronising and smug

to allow people with differing attitudes and opinions into Ireland is patronising and smug?

I demand an Ireland that is tolerant. No ifs, no buts.

endacl

Sure it used to be the feckin' culchies comin' up here and takin' our jobs. We need somebody to blame for our own circumstances. It's easier these days to recognise de furriners. When culchies take the flat caps and wellies off, it can be difficult to tell them apart from dubs.

El Weirdo

save_me_some wrote: »

im not entirely convinced by this arguement , it more or less labels mid east countries as having a lower standard ( though acceptable by way of cultural difference etc ) while at the same time , demands that ireland must allow in people who bring with them , attitudes which are the norm on those countries

its both patronising and smug

I didn't mention any countries, let alone any Middle Eastern ones.

Lyaiera

endacl wrote: »

Sure it used to be the feckin' culchies comin' up here and takin' our jobs. We need somebody to blame for our own circumstances. It's easier these days to recognise de furriners. When culchies take the flat caps and wellies off, it can be difficult to tell them apart from dubs.

Shiny black shoes and shirts. Have you not learned anything?

FTA69

shawnxxiong wrote: »

I'm a foreigner in dublin, i didn't feel being insulted or anything racial on seeing those slogans. Just some people thinking loudly, that's all. But ireland do really need to echo all the emigrants back, because almost all of the irish classmates (who were really talented) in my college years prioritize the emigration after graduation.

You don't think there's anything dodgy about people ranting about the Jews controlling world finance accompanied by typical far-right iconography?

WilyCoyote

I bet the good burghers of The West thought like this after the cry went up, "TO HELL OR TO CONNAUGHT"?

bodice ripper

bb1234567 wrote: »

andd..? It is still ethnically diverse no matter what way you look at it, it has a foreign popualtion of 15% which is more than what the majority of the worlds countries have.

Aaand if your country is fortunate enough to be the kind of place people actually want to be, you are going to have immigrants. And probably far more than you have here.

How anyone who has been to a capital city in Europe can think that Ireland has a "high level of ethnic diversity" is beyond me.

FTA69

Piliger wrote: »

No it doesn't. Just because the UN says it does doesn't make it so.

Yes it does. That's the internationally accepted definition. It's certainly more relevant than the definition conveniently according to your good self anyway.

BeerWolf

But Shepard seemed so friendly towards all the aliens!

Link

FTA69

mcko wrote: »

My kids' national school has loads of non nationals, I have non problem with this as most of the people I speak to seem ok
What annoys me is that when someone tries to maintain Irish Culture ect they are called racist.
I am a firm believer in live and let live but when you are in my house live by my rules. I don't think the minority should dictate policy, by all means live your life how you want to but look at what happened in other countries where you had immigration long before we had.
In Cork city every Saturday there are Muslims trying to convert people,if I went to any muslim country and tried to convert people to christian religions I would not be allowed. I am fine with that, that is the culture I would be living in and I would be happy to live that way, HERE is my point, if you don't like my rules leave my house.
How long before muslims working in shops refuse to serve alcohol ect.
Before anyone says so no I am not a racist or Nazi.

First of all most Muslim countries have quite prominent Christian and Jewish minorities. I've been to three Muslim countries and seen a variety of Christians and their places of worship. These include Turkey, Palestine and Morocco. Even in places considered "conservative" Muslim countries like Iraq and Iran you will find hundreds of thousands of Christians who go about their business as normal. The only place that fits your description are Saudi and the Arab Emirates (where loads of Christians live). Besides that, do you think we should we be mimicking these places or something?

Secondly how are people engaging in Irish culture being called racist?? When does that happen? I've never heard of anyone being called a racist for playing GAA, speaking Irish, engaging in Irish dance or going to the pub. What do you mean by that exactly?

Lastly, I don't think you're a racist at all; you're just someone who's a bit uninformed and you're exaggerating the whole scenario.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

the_monkey

Ridiculous, I remember years ago a taxi driver was saying to me "They reckon there will be no pure Irish in 50 years time" -- so f*cking what ??

Immigrants children here are being brought up in Ireland , in Irish schools with Irish friends ... they will grow up Irish and speak with Irish accents - they are Irish!!!

We are all immigrants if you go back far enough..


edit - I don't think I used the word "Irish" enough there

bb1234567

bodice ripper wrote: »

Aaand if your country is fortunate enough to be the kind of place people actually want to be, you are going to have immigrants. And probably far more than you have here.

How anyone who has been to a capital city in Europe can think that Ireland has a "high level of ethnic diversity" is beyond me.

Japan, China and korea are wealthy countries, yet theres almost no ethnic diversity.

And Ireland is much smaller than the other large wealthy european countries that are ethnically diverse. Obviously we will have less immigrants than france ,england or germany. I dont know why people want to call ireland homogemous when its not at all not even close

save_me_some

folan wrote: »

to allow people with differing attitudes and opinions into Ireland is patronising and smug?

I demand an Ireland that is tolerant. No ifs, no buts.

you demand an ireland which tollerates attitudes which stem from the mid east while at the same time , claim that those very countries are backward

its as if you make allowances for mid east attitudes , akin to making allowances for a dog who chews up a couch

" ah sure he knows no better but im too high brow - tollerant to possibly call him out on it "

Piliger

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's probably all being done by two nasty little yobs. A mountain out of a molehill.

save_me_some

FTA69 wrote: »

You don't think there's anything dodgy about people ranting about the Jews controlling world finance accompanied by typical far-right iconography?

i dont hear that too often but their is a massively disproportionate percentage of jewish people working on wall st

ditto , african americans in the NBA

why is it wrong to point to the obvious , wait i forgot , the whole basis of political correctness is denying reality in favour of potraying an idealised world as desired by right on liberals

Piliger

FTA69 wrote: »

Yes it does. That's the internationally accepted definition. It's certainly more relevant than the definition conveniently according to your good self anyway.

No it isn't. The UN does't decide on the English language.

save_me_some

bb1234567 wrote: »

Japan, China and korea are wealthy countries, yet theres almost no ethnic diversity.

And Ireland is much smaller than the other large wealthy european countries that are ethnically diverse. Obviously we will have less immigrants than france ,england or germany. I dont know why people want to call ireland homogemous when its not at all not even close

japan and korea and are not populated by white caucasions , hence they are not called out on their ethnic immigration policies , pc liberals only ever aim for white people

darkpagandeath

save_me_some wrote: »

i dont hear that too often but their is a massively disproportionate percentage of jewish people working on wall st

ditto , african americans in the NBA

why is it wrong to point to the obvious , wait i forgot , the whole basis of political correctness is denying reality in favour of potraying an idealised world as desired by right on liberals

Careful now that would be close to being anti Semitic. Even though no other group get a word all their own to toss out for Racism towards them.

Yer Aul One

Maphisto wrote: »

An unemployed graphics designer?

"Unemployed" seems like a superfluous adjective here, aren't they all?

Wompa1

El Weirdo wrote: »

Why? Do you keep getting lost and have to ask for directions?

And when you do and ask somebody how to walk there, all they can tell you is the number of the bus that can get you there

FTA69

Piliger wrote: »

No it isn't. The UN does't decide on the English language.

It is the accepted definition of racism though. The UN is pretty much the go to organisation for various international definitions on things such as human rights, racism, poverty, education etc etc. I'm sorry if their actual definition doesn't suit the particular point you're trying to make, but as I said above; their definition is certainly a more valid and relevant one than your own personal opinion.

Out of curiosity, if we take the "no dogs, no blacks, no Irish signs"' do you think only one part of that statement is racist or something?