Reduced Protein Diet for failing dog?

aonb

Well, brought my poor Pepper to have his second scan this afternoon - the meds didnt really do anything for his bladder (growths), and his kidneys are starting to fail, so we are on the final struggle now. He has pulled through so many illnesses in his 16 years, he's been such a little fighter. When the time comes we will not let him suffer for a minute, but in the meantime keeping him comfortable and happy for the time he has left is all that matters.

Anyway! Reducing protein in his diet to help his kidney function is my question now. Pepper will NOT eat dried food. I bought a few cans of Royal Canin Renal wet food while at the vets just to get me started (E2.65 a can :eek:). Ordinarily hes been fed boiled chicken/rice/veg or boiled beef/rice/veg or fish. He has various healthy chews/treats also.

Im torn between reducing his protein intake in help his kidneys and thinking what-the-heck, he loves his meat, why deny him. The vet says its a matter of weeks - is there any point in denying him his yummy food (hes been food obsessed all his life) when it wont really matter for much longer?

Has anyone got suggestions for a reduced protein diet for an elderly dog - something very tempting and tasty if possible - or as a last resort any tinned food for Renal disease/failure to recommend (I assume all RC is pretty much rubbish?)

DBB

Aww aonb, I'm so sorry to hear this bad news
And I can absolutely see your point re feeding him what he likes meat-wise now as it's not likely to make an enormous difference.
That said, if I had an older dog with renal problems and was trying to decide what I'd feed him, I'd be asking boomerang

aonb

DBB wrote: »

Aww aonb, I'm so sorry to hear this bad news
And I can absolutely see your point re feeding him what he likes meat-wise now as it's not likely to make an enormous difference.
That said, if I had an older dog with renal problems and was trying to decide what I'd feed him, I'd be asking boomerang

Ok, so no pressure Boomerang!!!!?

boomerang

Creating a homemade kidney-friendly diet for your dog takes a bit of research but www.dogaware.com is a great place to start.

Wet or moist food is the way to go now to help keep him hydrated, so while you are looking at the homemade option, keep him on the Royal Canin Renal or Hills k/d tins. They're not the best thing in the world to eat quality wise, but that doesn't matter right now. They do the job, most importantly. Protein needs to be as low as possible now because it will cause him to feel nauseous and less likely to eat, which is what he needs to do to keep going.

aonb

As you say, keeping him hydrated is the important thing, so maybe I'll stick with the RC RENAL. Your DOGAWARE website suggested (high fat!?!) minced beef/rice in equal proportions is a good option, Pep will happily eat this, so between that and the tins, we'll do fine. Many thanks. (P.S. an interesting YAHOO group forum on the topic for anyone interested is K9DIET or K9KIDNEYDIET - theres various canine raw, diet and behaviour Groups on there)

After a bad day yesterday, Pep in great form today - very alert, roaring at me for food/snacks/very hungry - so a happier day after a very weepy one yesterday.

boomerang

Those are good Yahoo! groups alright.

Please read the info from Mary Strauss carefully. The dog's dietary needs change as the disease progresses - e.g. lower phosphorus and less meat protein. Has your vet vet staged Pep? Is he uraemic? I

f you just feed mince and rice without adding the right amount of calcium, it's not balanced. Also watch the fat content of the mince as Pep mightn't be used to a lot of fat. Beef mince made my own dog very itchy so I steered clear and went for lamb mince or turkey mince.

Plus it's sushi rice is the way to go, not regular long-grain or Basmati. Sushi rice is far lower in phosphorus. I used to get it in Tesco. (Gelatinous rice is lowest of all, but it's a pain in the ass to cook!)

aonb

boomerang wrote: »

Those are good Yahoo! groups alright.

Please read the info from Mary Strauss carefully. The dog's dietary needs change as the disease progresses - e.g. lower phosphorus and less meat protein. Has your vet vet staged Pep? Is he uraemic? I

f you just feed mince and rice without adding the right amount of calcium, it's not balanced. Also watch the fat content of the mince as Pep mightn't be used to a lot of fat. Beef mince made my own dog very itchy so I steered clear and went for lamb mince or turkey mince.

Plus it's sushi rice is the way to go, not regular long-grain or Basmati. Sushi rice is far lower in phosphorus. I used to get it in Tesco. (Gelatinous rice is lowest of all, but it's a pain in the ass to cook!)

thank you so much for this. All the info i can get quickly is great. I understand from initial research that fatty mince better than lean? Didnt know the sushi rice was better because low in phosphorus-that explains that. Will get that. Thought to try rice/fatty mince/natural yoghurt/Some ground up eggshell too for calcium? Im not too worried about balance since this will probably be short term. The RC Renal at 2.65E per can is crazy money, but am prepared to do that happily - as long as he will eat it. Can try the Hills for variety too. I just want to help his kidneys as much as possible for as long as possible - once the kidneys start to really deteriorate I cant bear the thoughts of the lethargy/lack of appetite that it will bring.

In your unbiasedopinion do you think since he has no chance of recovery, that I would be better to just give him the food he loves (he has always been food obsessed) and make his last days happier, or should I try to make him last a bit longer/comfortabler by going with the RC and Hills and no treats/bones etc? Really dont know what to do. He is very alert/happy/ok (apart from having to go out and pee an awful lot (and all the straining to pee is making him feel like he has to poo so posturing in poo position for ages ) He is lying on the beanbag now having a wash after being out for a tiny walk, so his quality of life at the moment is 100%. SO hard to know what to do...

(p.s. the vet hasnt staged Pep - his bladder is the prime problem - growths, and his Kidney specific gravity reading from blood test is very low as a secondary problem)

tk123

Poor Pepper! My cat had kidney failure - it was too advanced when we discovered it though and I made the decision to end his pain a week later He wouldn't eat anything at all and the small amount we did manage to get him to eat came back up. If it was me knowing that they only had weeks left and if feeding them what they loved wasn't going to cause any pain I think that's what I'd do.

16 years though - what a great age and I'm sure he's had a great life with you! My poor Doug was only 6

boomerang

If his kidney disease is very advanced and he is uraemic, then I definitely wouldn't be giving him anything at all to make him eat, as normal levels of protein will make him nauseous. I would discuss it with your vet.

With my own dog, she LOVED eating the kidney-friendly homecooked food - she never ate better! Used to love cooking for her. Sushi rice, green beans, tuna and boiled egg with a dab of Philadelphia was a favourite for both of us, lol! But her kidney disease was not advanced so I had more leeway in how much protein and phos. content she could have.

ETA: The reason fat is advocated (usually in the form of dairy products) is because the fat replaces the calories that would have been provided in the protein, thus making sure your dog meets his required daily calorific intake. Just be careful because some dogs have difficulty coping with extra fat - especially oldies - and you don't want to spark off pancreatitis. That's why you've got to follow the dietary instructions to the letter and not approximate. If you're not comfortable with all the calculations then I would stick with the RC or K/D. You could also try a small bag of the dry food and soak it in an equal amount of warm water. My dog ate that for me no problem.

aonb

Just made up a pot of sushi rice/minced beef/egg white/eggshell/sweet potato/yoghurt - thought he'd laugh in my face cos you cant see any meat the ratio is so small, but he snarfed it up still warm.Also got few more tins of the KC on way home. Will try source HILLS K/D unless anyone knows a shop that has it in the Naas/Newbridge area? One last question I promise Boomerang - can you give me the proportions of the "Sushi rice, green beans, tuna and boiled egg with a dab of Philadelphia"- Pep loves tuna (in oil or brine?) and boiled egg.

(he isnt uraemic, and the vet (new to us) only suggested 'low protein diet' - I didnt know enough then to ask what specifically, but did pick up a tin of the RC Renal and asked him "This?" (while trying not to sob!! ) and he said "Yes!" - will probably change vets for other dogs)

boomerang

What weight is he aonb? With any luck he's the same weight as my girl and you can have my recipes, but only if he is stage one or two?

boomerang

Oh and the k/d you'll have to get in a vets or Maxizoo have a German equivalent. You can also get it on Zooplus now. I only suggest the dry k/d over the dry RC Renal because it soaks more quickly! The Renal kibble is hard as rocks!

I'm sure he did gobble up that recipe, and he couldn't eat better than fresh home-made food and human quality too. Lucky fella.

aonb

Boomerang he is 8-9kg

Ive always fed them home cooked - he never ate kibble, so I wont even try the k/d or Renal - soaked or 'hidden' in wet food, he would pick the kibble out with a "cant fool me look" and leave them on the floor for the other dogs to hoover up!