Convicted child killer canvassing for sinn fein[Mod warning-First Post]

Birroc

Banjo String wrote: »

Well I for one would welcome them attempting a write down, despite many promises, Enda hasn't brought home the bacon yet.

What leverages did the Greeks have Btw?

Edit tayto beat me to it.

I actually think Enda and Noonan could use these election results to push EU for a write-down. I believe we will get one eventually, we have to - our debt is unfair and unsustainable given we are still in huge budget deficit every year (is it €10b now?). However I have my doubts if Enda has the balls to sufficiently push for such a write-down.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

That is happening all the time -
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/mortgage-aib-1370759-Mar2014/


Our children and indeed grandchildren are already in debt because of the greed of the elite -
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/future-generations-saddled-with-debt-222056.html

70 % of the 200 billion we owe is not owed because of banking crime and bastard developers

it was to pay for the huge wages and pensions and lavish spending of, lets face it FF , feeding the unions faces , lining their pockets , and the pockets of the "professional" class

and yet they still get votes ?

because we are tied into the fiscal treaty , as John Bruton pointed out today, the pain has at least 10 years to go. no matter who is in power

Birroc

twowheelsgood wrote: »

But once again, where is the leverage? Would you go into your bank manager and demand a wte-down on your mortgage because it was given to someone else? You might, but I don't think you would get to far unless you have a card up your sleeve.

And a longer period to pay off the debt would be a gain for our generation but at the expense of our children's and grandchildren's one. Alas, this is an option often taken. But it is hardly fair?

Worse again, because we are running still such a huge budget deficit 7 years on, our grandchildren will be paying for todays wages & pensions for our bloated public service (including our useless TDs) and our overly generous welfare system.

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

70 % of the 200 billion we owe is not owed because of banking crime and bastard developers

it was to pay for the huge wages and pensions and lavish spending of, lets face it FF , feeding the unions faces , lining their pockets , and the pockets of the "professional" class

and yet they still get votes ?

because we are tied into the fiscal treaty , as John Bruton pointed out today, the pain has at least 10 years to go. no matter who is in power

I can't understand why people still vote FF :mad:
I read what Bruton said but I don't think its actually as bad as he states and more educated men than me have taken him to task over it.
Maybe if he gave up his car and driver and took a drop in his pensions he could do a tiny bit to help.

Slick50

dj jarvis wrote: »

SF still wont gain power , the two dreaded beasts that are FF and FG will morph into a super bastard and **** us all

SF IMO will not see power for at least 15 years

SF and independents are gaining ground all the time. There could be enough of them to overpower the super bastard... so long as the 'Healy Ray' independent/FFers party don't sell out.

SaveOurLyric

tayto lover wrote: »

I can't understand why people still vote FF :mad

Because they represent a broad section of Irish voters. Exactly the same section as FG, but people like to believe they have a choice even though the two are identical (like washing powder branding). The labour party represents another significant section that is 95% the same as the FG/FF one but with a patina of leftism.
SF and independents are for the cranks and simple minded - in good times a shrinking sector, in bad times a growing sector (but they quickly swing back again when the adult parties in power take the responsible actions and things improve).

Fr. Ned

twowheelsgood wrote: »

But if financial problems could be solved that easily sure we’d all be on the pig’s back.

Can’t pay your mortgage? Not to worry. In with you to your bank manager and get a write-down.

Not earning enough to pay your bills? Simples. Insist your employer up your wages.

Of course, you possibly spot a tiny problem here -you probably have no leverage that you can use to gain these concessions.

So where is the leverage to get anything from Europe?

Leverage?

The threat of default and destabilising the whole euro project is leverage.

And before you start about 'nobody will lend us money' etc etc, Greece had €100 billion in debt writedown and their bond rates are only slightly higher than ours right now.

We need a strong government and not one beholding to the EPP.

Woodville56

Slick50 wrote: »

SF and independents are gaining ground all the time. There could be enough of them to overpower the super bastard... so long as the 'Healy Ray' independent/FFers party don't sell out.

If the current mood of the public (as apparent in the recent polls) follows through in the next General Election, FG should return to opposition and let FF/SF or whatever combination of leftist parties or individuals take charge and let them sort out Europe and our Banks, the economy etc .. Back to the future ... Seems it's what the voting public wants .... just be ready for the consequences when it all goes belly up again ! But in reality SF wouldn't want that , they would prefer to see FG/Ff together leaving themselves to keep the high moral ground for the opposition once again, all the sound bites but with none of the responsibility ! Their opportunities have come now in some local authorities where they will hold the balance of power, so let's see how they get on there with their policies before national government

Dan_Solo

Fr. Ned wrote: »

And before you start about 'nobody will lend us money' etc etc, Greece had €100 billion in debt writedown and their bond rates are only slightly higher than ours right now.

Not to mention Iceland gave them all two fingers and still managed to get back into the market.

Dan_Solo

Woodville56 wrote: »

If the current mood of the public (as apparent in the recent polls) follows through in the next General Election, FG should return to opposition and let FF/SF or whatever combination of leftist parties

Spot the right winger. Thinks FF are left.

Chucky the tree

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Spot the right winger. Thinks FF are left.

They're centre. Valid arguments can be made for them being left or right.

Woodville56

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Spot the right winger. Thinks FF are left.

Where did I say that - please explain your post - I said FF/SF. or whatever combination of leftist parties ....meaning SF and other left leaning parties of a combination of FF/SF and some other left leaning parties.......as elsewhere in these fora Dan_Solo you persist in misrepresenting other people views to the ends of your own agenda !

Slick50

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

SF and independents are for the cranks and simple minded - in good times a shrinking sector, in bad times a growing sector (but they quickly swing back again when the adult parties in power take the responsible actions and things improve).

So people's mental capacity, abilities, are directly proportionate to government incompetence. But, like I already pointed out, weren't we 'idiots' when we were voting for successive FF governments.

Woodville56 wrote: »

Their opportunities have come now in some local authorities where they will hold the balance of power, so let's see how they get on there with their policies before national government

They seem to be gaining support where they are in power at the moment.

SaveOurLyric

Woodville56 wrote: »

If the current mood of the public (as apparent in the recent polls) follows through in the next General Election, FG should return to opposition

Why ? A substantial portion of the population will vote for them, and their near-as-damn-it no different relations FF and Labour.
These three parties should always be in power in Ireland. And the Greens when they mobilise again.

SF, and, assorted very minority socialist alliances, the local issue gombeens, and the Mick Wallace and Ming type joke candidates form the opposition (which really just means panel filler material for weekend radio shows and Vincent Browne's programme).

Ireland need to mature and grow out of the nonesense of changing political parties. FF/FG/Lab represents an huge majority of the Irish people. Just let them govern and stop playing party musical chairs.

SaveOurLyric

Slick50 wrote: »

But, like I already pointed out, weren't we 'idiots' when we were voting for successive FF governments.

No, you werent. FF were simply as good/bad as the Irish people in general. The mistake is to think that the political party itself had anything to do with the trouble we got into.

SaveOurLyric

Slick50 wrote: »

So people's mental capacity, abilities, are directly proportionate to government incompetence.

Not proportional. The sad truth is that they are the same.

Woodville56

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Why ? A substantial portion of the population will vote for them, and their near-as-damn-it no different relations FF and Labour.
These three parties should always be in power in Ireland. And the Greens when they mobilise again.

SF, and, assorted very minority socialist alliances, the local issue gombeens, and the Mick Wallace and Ming type joke candidates form the opposition (which really just means panel filler material for weekend radio shows and Vincent Browne's programme).

Ireland need to mature and grow out of the nonesense of changing political parties. FF/FG/Lab represents an huge majority of the Irish people. Just let them govern and stop playing party musical chairs.

I'm thinking in the context of the current advance of SF and other leftist parties & individuals - it would suit SF to have FG/FF in power for a while so that the could continue their populist rhetoric opposition in the hope that they could hope to secure an overall majority circa 2021 or whenever the FG /Ff gig came apart ! Of course they (SF) would be wanting us to continue wallowing in austerity until the glorious day when they would assume power and save us from Europe !

twowheelsgood

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Leverage?

The threat of default and destabilising the whole euro project is leverage.

And this is Sinn Fein policy is it?

Dan_Solo

Woodville56 wrote: »

Where did I say that - please explain your post - I said FF/SF. or whatever combination of leftist parties ....meaning SF and other left leaning parties of a combination of FF/SF and some other left leaning parties.......as elsewhere in these fora Dan_Solo you persist in misrepresenting other people views to the ends of your own agenda !

No, your statement is ambiguous over whether you mean FF/SF would be a combination of leftist parties. Thank you for specifying.
The unambiguous way of saying that would have been "FF/SF or a combination of whatever leftist parties".

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

And this is Sinn Fein policy is it?

You asked what leverage Ireland had to negotiate a write down/off of debt not belonging to the tax payers, not Sinn Féins policies.

Nice way way to try and manipulate the direction of debate though.

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

You asked what leverage Ireland had to negotiate a write down/off of debt not belonging to the tax payers, not Sinn Féins policies.

The idea is being pushed here, by Tayto Lover in particular, is that Sinn Fein will, or at least might, do better for us that other parties in relation to renegotiating our debt. I quite simply ask, how?

Suggesting an approach that is not SF policy and something they would not do doesn't really answer the question does it?

SF don't have any magic beans and I fully expect those who are now blasting Labour for their lack of magic beans will be back 2-3 years after SF enter government, bewildered once again.

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

The idea is being pushed here, by Tayto Lover in particular, is that Sinn Fein will, or at least might, do better for us that other parties in relation to renegotiating our debt. I quite simply ask, how?

Suggesting an approach that is not SF policy and something they would not do doesn't really answer the question does it?

SF don't have any magic beans and I fully expect those who are now blasting Labour for their lack of magic beans will be back 2-3 years after SF enter government, bewildered once again.

Well we will have to await and see I suppose.

It is funny though, I dont recall labour being subjected to the same pre-judgement criticism after the 2011 results as SF have been, bearing in mind labour have been in Govt before, and not always that successfully either.

road_high

twowheelsgood wrote: »

The idea is being pushed here, by Tayto Lover in particular, is that Sinn Fein will, or at least might, do better for us that other parties in relation to renegotiating our debt. I quite simply ask, how?

Suggesting an approach that is not SF policy and something they would not do doesn't really answer the question does it?

SF don't have any magic beans and I fully expect those who are now blasting Labour for their lack of magic beans will be back 2-3 years after SF enter government, bewildered once again.

Love to see SF in Finance for a few years. Only to watch them fail miserably and with their tails between their legs. Doherty would sh!t himself if the position arose in the morning. Be so interesting to see where they'd find and maintain the billions in savings.

Fratton Fred

Banjo String wrote: »

Well we will have to await and see I suppose.

It is funny though, I dont recall labour being subjected to the same pre-judgement criticism after the 2011 results as SF have been, bearing in mind labour have been in Govt before, and not always that successfully either.

I don't recall Labour fans being more excited than a culchie at a Garth Brooks concert.

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

Well we will have to await and see I suppose.

But we don't have to wait and see. That is my point.

I most certainly did not expect Labour & FG to do any better than they have done, far less well TBH. Even a basic grasp of our economic situation should have told anyone else the same.

I similarly don't expect Martin O'Neill to get us to the final of the next euro championship and again, anyone with a basic grasp of football reality would expect the same. We don't have to wait and see.

Of course, remarkable things occasionally happen, but to expect they will ...

twowheelsgood

road_high wrote: »

Love to see SF in Finance for a few years. Only to watch them fail miserably and with their tails between their legs. Doherty would sh!t himself if the position arose in the morning. Be so interesting to see where they'd find and maintain the billions in savings.

Alas, SF will be far too clever to go anywhere near government for the next 10 years or so, if they can avoid it. I doubt if their head honchos would be so deluded as to think their fate would be different to Labour or the Greens, even if some of their foot soldiers are.

Dan_Solo

road_high wrote: »

Love to see SF in Finance for a few years. Only to watch them fail miserably and with their tails between their legs. Doherty would sh!t himself if the position arose in the morning. Be so interesting to see where they'd find and maintain the billions in savings.

Oh, SF are now the soft party who would be afraid to implement a budget? This in a thread about a multiple murderer canvassing for the party?
You know, the budget they propose that uses the governments own releases figures and was costed by the department of finance? (maybe the latter two are why you don't believe it?)
And it's not as if Doherty has much to live up to in a long line of Irish finance ministers...

Dan_Solo

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Alas, SF will be far too clever to go anywhere near government for the next 10 years or so

How are they going about avoiding it? By increasing their electoral base to record levels? That wouldn't be clever if you don't ever want to get in.

twowheelsgood

Dan_Solo wrote: »

How are they going about avoiding it? By increasing their electoral base to record levels? That wouldn't be clever if you don't ever want to get in.

Provided they don't get an over-all majority, any party can avoid government. Of course they might be rumbled and the people might come to decide that they are a party for the protest vote and nothing more.

They do certainly want to get into power. But they would prefer to do a FF on it and let FG clean up the mess first and then come wading in when the economy improves.

tayto lover

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Because they represent a broad section of Irish voters. Exactly the same section as FG, but people like to believe they have a choice even though the two are identical (like washing powder branding). The labour party represents another significant section that is 95% the same as the FG/FF one but with a patina of leftism.
SF and independents are for the cranks and simple minded - in good times a shrinking sector, in bad times a growing sector (but they quickly swing back again when the adult parties in power take the responsible actions and things improve).

Funny that.
I don't recall it being the SF and Ind's who got us into the trouble.
Must have been the "super cranks and feeble-minded".
SF seem to threaten the well protected elements of Irish society and that's the hang-up.

Dan_Solo

twowheelsgood wrote: »

But they would prefer to do a FF on it and let FG clean up the mess first

LOL. FG cleaning up the mess. Doesn't feel very cleaned up to me or the voters.

Fr. Ned

twowheelsgood wrote: »

And this is Sinn Fein policy is it?

That's my policy which I have informed SF about.

I also told my local Labour TD that too when I met with him but his answer was 'what can I do'.

Banjo String

road_high wrote: »

Love to see SF in Finance for a few years. Only to watch them fail miserably and with their tails between their legs . Doherty would sh!t himself if the position arose in the morning. Be so interesting to see where they'd find and maintain the billions in savings.

So you'd like the economy to in a worse state than it is now, just to 'stick it to the shinners' .

That's some messed up logic there.

twowheelsgood

Dan_Solo wrote: »

LOL. FG cleaning up the mess. Doesn't feel very cleaned up to me or the voters.

It doesn't seem terribly impressive if you have wholly unrealistic expectations of what could have been achieved.

But if you think an alternative government could have done markedly better then I guess as someone above suggests, you (but not me! ) will have to wait and see.

Fr. Ned

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Alas, SF will be far too clever to go anywhere near government for the next 10 years or so, if they can avoid it. I doubt if their head honchos would be so deluded as to think their fate would be different to Labour or the Greens, even if some of their foot soldiers are.

Na, FFail are toning down their attacks on SF and Niall Collins was fluttering his eyelashes at SF last night on the VB show.....

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Alas, SF will be far too clever to go anywhere near government for the next 10 years or so, if they can avoid it. I doubt if their head honchos would be so deluded as to think their fate would be different to Labour or the Greens, even if some of their foot soldiers are.

Enda has performed yet another remarkable u-turn by refusing to rule out going into Govt with them.

I pray SF will play the long game though. Time will tell, it was interesting to hear the speculation of this Govt not seeing in the end of this year on vb last night though, especially after Eamo and Pat predicting the same only a few weeks ago.

tayto lover

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Na, FFail are toning down their attacks on SF and Niall Collins was fluttering his eyelashes at SF last night on the VB show.....

The thing is would FF contaminate SF?

twowheelsgood

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Na, FFail are toning down their attacks on SF and Niall Collins was fluttering his eyelashes at SF last night on the VB show.....

FF will go in to government with SF (well with anyone really). SF would be no where near as warm on the idea - which is not to say that they wouldn't do so. The whole 1916 stuff might prove to be too much of a honey pot. But that could be a major mistake, and whatever else you say about them, SF don't make many of those.

Happyman42

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Defend our interests against what?

lazygal wrote: »

What are our interests?

bumper234 wrote: »

What do you expect to change now that SF have 4 MEP's? What will SF do to change "what is happening to us in Europe."

At the very least I expect them to be figureheads for protests here about what austerity is doing to people's lives.
Does Europe take notice of that? I think if it is underlined enough that they will. It will have more of an effect than the 'all is rosy, we'll tolerate any austerity' picture that Enda has been painting in Brussels.

FTA69

twowheelsgood wrote: »

FF will go in to government with SF (well with anyone really). SF would be no where near as warm on the idea - which is not to say that they wouldn't do so. The whole 1916 stuff might prove to be too much of a honey pot. But that could be a major mistake, and whatever else you say about them, SF don't make many of those.

They've mad a few strategic mistakes and nearly committed hara kiri in 2007. They were literally foaming to get into coalition in 2007 only Fianna Fáil went with the Greens instead. Hopefully Sinn Féin learned the lesson from that.

Chucky the tree

Happyman42 wrote: »

At the very least I expect them to be figureheads for protests here about what austerity is doing to people's lives.
Does Europe take notice of that? I think if it is underlined enough that they will. It will have more of an effect than the 'all is rosy, we'll tolerate any austerity' picture that Enda has been painting in Brussels.

Yea it's great Sinn Fein will be the first and only people in European parliament who will be talking about austerity.

Banjo String

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea it's great Sinn Fein will be the first and only people in European parliament who will be talking about austerity on Ireland's behalf

Fyp.

Slick50

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Why ? A substantial portion of the population will vote for them, and their near-as-damn-it no different relations FF and Labour.
These three parties should always be in power in Ireland. And the Greens when they mobilise again.

SF, and, assorted very minority socialist alliances, the local issue gombeens, and the Mick Wallace and Ming type joke candidates form the opposition (which really just means panel filler material for weekend radio shows and Vincent Browne's programme).

Ireland need to mature and grow out of the nonesense of changing political parties. FF/FG/Lab represents an huge majority of the Irish people. Just let them govern and stop playing party musical chairs.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

No, you werent. FF were simply as good/bad as the Irish people in general. The mistake is to think that the political party itself had anything to do with the trouble we got into.

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Not proportional. The sad truth is that they are the same.

Did you fall off your chair in the early hours, and knock your head?
Either that or you're just on a wind up?