Rent a room lodger refusing to leave

Francie Barrett

Zulu wrote: »

you'll call the Guards.

The guards will not give a stuff about a civil matter.

endacl

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The guards will not give a stuff about a civil matter.

You're a veritable fountainhead of incorrect information Francie! How do you keep up with yourself at all?!?

She's given notice to her lodger, who is now to all intents and purposes a trespasser. Why wouldn't they 'give a stuff'?

The_Morrigan

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The guards will not give a stuff about a civil matter.

Trespass isn't a civil matter.

whomitconcerns

Francie Barrett wrote: »

That's contradictory to what's on the first link and to be honest, it doesn't seem fair to me at all.

By that logic, if I was renting a room to someone, if the tenant left the lid on the toilet up or something one night, then I could hand them their deposit back there and then and turf them out that night.

Yes it is contradictory I agree that was my point that the first and second pages dont tally.

But on your second point...technically...yes you could...

foggy_lad

Johnny Be Goode wrote: »

Hi, talk to a solicitor before doing anything, very important to get professional advice before doing or saying anything JBG

No need to go to any expense. She has been given perfectly adequate notice.

martingriff wrote: »

Can you do this with a lodger. I know if somwone is renting a place the landlord can not go into house but can you just pack up there stuff if they rent a room

The owner can go into any room in their house at any time but most would respect the privacy of guests visitors and lodgers.

martingriff wrote: »

Thanks never know that. I have never rented out a room or anything like that. I am guessing that an occupier can not just go into a room and do that unless notice was given

Yes they can go into the room at any time and also look through the stuff in the room.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'd speak to a brief anyway. Tell them what you intend to do. A consultation shouldn't cost much. Might cost a couple of quid now, but cheap in the long run, if things are turning nasty.

Then action as the others have said. The tenant knows you want her out. So - put her backside out.

Notice has been given and reasonable notice is usually seen as the same as the rental period so a week is plenty!

Francie Barrett

endacl wrote: »

She's given notice to her lodger, who is now to all intents and purposes a trespasser. Why wouldn't they 'give a stuff'?

If you're my tenant and one night I decide I want you out, I give you written notice I want you and your stuff out of my house in 5 minutes. You can call the guards and tell them there is a trespasser in your property and can expect them to help remove the tenant?

The sticking point here is a reasonable period of notice. Is 5 minutes within the letter of the law? 1 day, 12 days, a month? I would be seeking to establish the facts before I did anything.

ABajaninCork

I crave pardon :P

I am after all a LONDONER!

endacl

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If you're my tenant and one night I decide I want you out, I give you written notice I want you and your stuff out of my house in 5 minutes. You can call the guards and tell them there is a trespasser in your property and can expect them to help remove the tenant?

The sticking point here is a reasonable period of notice. Is 5 minutes within the letter of the law? 1 day, 12 days, a month? I would be seeking to establish the facts before I did anything.

Technically yes, but let's not be silly now just for the sake of scoring a point.

:rolleyes:

And just to be clear, I wouldn't be your 'tenant'. I'd be your 'licencee'. You might want to go and do a bit of reading before you go getting even more stuff wrong.

Mrs OBumble

OP, I get where the others are coming from re just bagging her stuff and putting it in the street / hallway. Legally they're correct. But sometimes the law is an ass, and the legal route ain't helpful.

And doing this is likely to make her hate you even more. If she's even a tiny but unbalanced, or already has a criminal record and doesn't really care if it gets a bit longer, then it may mean that she does something to get revenge. This could range from a minor annoyance for you (eg slashed tyres) to something a good deal more harmful and serious (I'm not gonna give an example, in case it gives anyone ideas!).

If she's communicating in writing -that's better than not at all. I suggest doing both of these at the same time.

1) Getting the point across:
Printing out the material linked / listed above which shows that she has no rights.
Do the lawyer's consultation thing, and get a letter from them stating the position, which you give her a copy of. This should include some information about tresspassing, and also perhaps protection orders (depending on how the law works for them in Ireland) - not just the tenancy rights stuff.


2) Doing some research to find options for her ('cos it's regarded as kinda uncool to put anyone out to sleep in the hedgerows in Ireland):
Are there any backpacker or similar hostels that will do a weekly rate, and would take her?
Other people advertising for lodgers? (Maybe you could offer to give her a "nice" reference).
Friends of hers who might have a room?
Friends of yours who know the score and might be willing to take her on? (Be honest with them - but you never know someone might need the money really badly).
Anyone reading this ditto .. could PM the OP (if they had some idea of the location).

Worst case, you may have to help her choose an option and implement the choice for her. (Remember ... this advice is based on reality rather than legality.)


Yes, I know the atmosphere is awful. Been there and done that. Luckily my toss-out went of her own accord. But friends of mine had this problem too - they ended up checking him in to a hostel and movng his stuff there themselves.

Good luck.

matrim

One thing not mentioned is did she sign a lease and did that specify notice periods?

jmayo

endacl wrote: »

You're a veritable fountainhead of incorrect information Francie! How do you keep up with yourself at all?!?

She's given notice to her lodger, who is now to all intents and purposes a trespasser. Why wouldn't they 'give a stuff'?

Lets be realistic here.
When you call the guards you might end up talking to someone who probably thinks this is a civil matter since it involves rental accommodation and then you end up having to point them to the actual legal information.

Even after that they probably won't be breaking any speedlimits getting round to your place to manhandle the ex lodger out onto the street.

The only reason they will be somewhat prompt coming round is if there is major threat of it turning violent.
Even in that case if a certain so called "ethnic" group is involved they won't be in any rush round.

I do think OP needs to get concrete legal opinion and show to lodger she is actually contacting the guards. Call her bluff.

Give the lodger ultimatum to be out by certain time on certain date.
Contact guards before that date and let them know situation. It is just to appraise them of what has transpired and what might transpire.
cover your ass basically. Keep records of who you talked to and get them to log complain.

Have witness available for that exact time and call the guards if she is not out at that time.
Again it is to force her hand and to cover your ass.
Oh and have locksmith ready to go at that time.

ABajaninCork

matrim wrote: »

One thing not mentioned is did she sign a lease and did that specify notice periods?

I didn't think you needed a lease when renting a room. I stand to be corrected though...

matrim

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I didn't think you needed a lease when renting a room. I stand to be corrected though...

You don't but if the OP signed a lease specifying one months notice, then he may have to give that.

I'm not sure how the law would stand on it but I can imagine that if they only give the licensee a weeks notice after previously signing to a month in the lease, then if the licensee decided to move into a hotel for the rest of the month and claim that back in the small claims court, they would have a decent case

endacl

matrim wrote: »

You don't but if the OP signed a lease specifying one months notice, then he may have to give that.

I'm not sure how the law would stand on it but I can imagine that if they only give the licensee a weeks notice after previously signing to a month in the lease, then if the licensee decided to move into a hotel for the rest of the month and claim that back in the small claims court, they would have a decent case

See?!?

SCC to the rescue again!

whomitconcerns

matrim wrote: »

You don't but if the OP signed a lease specifying one months notice, then he may have to give that.

I'm not sure how the law would stand on it but I can imagine that if they only give the licensee a weeks notice after previously signing to a month in the lease, then if the licensee decided to move into a hotel for the rest of the month and claim that back in the small claims court, they would have a decent case

Its already established up above SCC doesnt cover that. It only covers non return of deposit in this situation, according to the consumer affairs people anyway....

endacl

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Its already established up above SCC doesnt cover that. It only covers non return of deposit in this situation, according to the consumer affairs people anyway....

No. SCC is also for settling arguments in pubs, finding lost pets, and quashing rebellion. They also do kids parties.



Or maybe they only do this stuff: http://www.courts.ie/Courts.ie/library3.nsf/pagecurrent/781D7D5227918A618025715C004CAEF3?opendocument

matrim

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Its already established up above SCC doesnt cover that. It only covers non return of deposit in this situation, according to the consumer affairs people anyway....

Possibly, as I said I'm not sure how the law would look at it and what's correct. But given that one of the links posted above mentioned reasonable notice, who would decide what is reasonable notice and rule if it wasn't reasonable? PRTB?

If you have previously agreed to 1 month it would be fair to say that 1 week is not reasonable notice.

Also, could it be construed as breach of contract, so brought up that way instead of as a tenancy case?

foggy_lad

matrim wrote: »

Possibly, as I said I'm not sure how the law would look at it and what's correct. But given that one of the links posted above mentioned reasonable notice, who would decide what is reasonable notice and rule if it wasn't reasonable? PRTB?

If you have previously agreed to 1 month it would be fair to say that 1 week is not reasonable notice.

Also, could it be construed as breach of contract, so brought up that way instead of as a tenancy case?

If a lodger pays weekly then a week is reasonable notice but most people will give more.

endacl

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a lodger pays weekly then a week is reasonable notice but most people will give more.

And if the lodger is as the one described in the OP? 'Reasonable' doesn't appear to be part of her thinking here...

matrim

foggy_lad wrote: »

If a lodger pays weekly then a week is reasonable notice but most people will give more.

My reading of the OP is that she was paying monthly and only moved to weekly after her notice was given

what can I do. My rent a room lodger has been verbally given 12 days notice to leave due to her unreasonable behaviour. She has refused to accept this. The monthly rent is 50euro less than similar places. I had suggested 2 months ago if she wanted to leave that was fine with me and she should start looking as she was complaining about paying bills and not a great sharer ie her needs always came first.

She insisting on a months notice and will now only pay weekly. She refuses to talk about the situation and will only communicate via written notes. This is unacceptable to me. what can I do? The atmosphere is awful. Her rent was 5 days late and has only given an amount for a week.

Also, surely reasonable would be whatever was signed up to in advance (if there was an agreement signed)

ABajaninCork

I missed the bit where the notice was given verbally. I think the OP should give a week's notice in writing since the tenant is now paying weekly. That's only sensible. A verbal notice means nothing at all...

D Weasel

cerise wrote: »

what can I do. My rent a room lodger has been verbally given 12 days notice to leave due to her unreasonable behaviour. She has refused to accept this. The monthly rent is 50euro less than similar places. I had suggested 2 months ago if she wanted to leave that was fine with me and she should start looking as she was complaining about paying bills and not a great sharer ie her needs always came first.

She insisting on a months notice and will now only pay weekly. She refuses to talk about the situation and will only communicate via written notes. This is unacceptable to me. what can I do? The atmosphere is awful. Her rent was 5 days late and has only given an amount for a week.

She has zero rights. Change the locks and leave her stuff in a refuse bag on the street.

endacl

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I missed the bit where the notice was given verbally. I think the OP should give a week's notice in writing since the tenant is now paying weekly. That's only sensible. A verbal notice means nothing at all...

It means ' you're leaving'.

Caliden

OP sorry to hear about your predicament but I think it's safe to say to cut your losses at not being paid a full months rent.

If she works, take a day off and have a locksmith arranged to come and change the locks. Leave her stuff outside at her usual arrival home time.

If she is on social welfare, do it on her sign on day. Don't be afraid to call the Gardai if things get out of hand.

She has zero say in the matter of when rent is due and how much rent is due, she is living in your house.

ABajaninCork

endacl wrote: »

It means ' you're leaving'.

Really? The tenant is already cutting up rough. By giving the notice in writing, everything is now made crystal clear to the tenant. There is then no excuse, even though we know she has zero rights...

littlevillage

Was recently involved in a similar situation.. where a lodger stopped paying the rent/bills and also refused to leave the room/house. I was at my wits end.

So one day when he was in the house, I called the Gardai. Gardai came, but after heated discussion with all parties, Gardai were not happy that notice was served .. so I served it on the tenant in their presence.

Tenant/Lodger needs to be served (in writing preferably) with a notice of eviction .. in a timeframe that is the same as the rental period. eg. A week or a Month etc.

You are allowed to hang onto deposit if there is outstanding rent/bills to be paid.

After that, if the tenant hasn't gone, call the Gardai again and they will help you with the forced eviction. (In my case the tenant left on his own before the notice was up)

Don't take the law into your own hands .. it could get very messy and costly

Potatoeman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, I get where the others are coming from re just bagging her stuff and putting it in the street / hallway. Legally they're correct. But sometimes the law is an ass, and the legal route ain't helpful.

And doing this is likely to make her hate you even more. If she's even a tiny but unbalanced, or already has a criminal record and doesn't really care if it gets a bit longer, then it may mean that she does something to get revenge. This could range from a minor annoyance for you (eg slashed tyres) to something a good deal more harmful and serious (I'm not gonna give an example, in case it gives anyone ideas!).

If she's communicating in writing -that's better than not at all. I suggest doing both of these at the same time.

1) Getting the point across:
Printing out the material linked / listed above which shows that she has no rights.
Do the lawyer's consultation thing, and get a letter from them stating the position, which you give her a copy of. This should include some information about tresspassing, and also perhaps protection orders (depending on how the law works for them in Ireland) - not just the tenancy rights stuff.


2) Doing some research to find options for her ('cos it's regarded as kinda uncool to put anyone out to sleep in the hedgerows in Ireland):
Are there any backpacker or similar hostels that will do a weekly rate, and would take her?
Other people advertising for lodgers? (Maybe you could offer to give her a "nice" reference).
Friends of hers who might have a room?
Friends of yours who know the score and might be willing to take her on? (Be honest with them - but you never know someone might need the money really badly).
Anyone reading this ditto .. could PM the OP (if they had some idea of the location).

Worst case, you may have to help her choose an option and implement the choice for her. (Remember ... this advice is based on reality rather than legality.)


Yes, I know the atmosphere is awful. Been there and done that. Luckily my toss-out went of her own accord. But friends of mine had this problem too - they ended up checking him in to a hostel and movng his stuff there themselves.



Good luck.

This seems reasonable and would reduce the chance of backlash.

foggy_lad

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I missed the bit where the notice was given verbally. I think the OP should give a week's notice in writing since the tenant is now paying weekly. That's only sensible. A verbal notice means nothing at all...

If she was a tenant she would have to get notice to quit but she is not a tenant. OP can tell her to be gone by tuesday next or to be out by the end of the day!

matrim wrote: »

My reading of the OP is that she was paying monthly and only moved to weekly after her notice was given




Also, surely reasonable would be whatever was signed up to in advance (if there was an agreement signed)

The owner does not have to give any notice at all, they can tell the lodger to be out by the end of the day!

drumswan

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If you're my tenant and one night I decide I want you out, I give you written notice I want you and your stuff out of my house in 5 minutes.

Shes not a tenant. There is plenty of protection available to tenants under the RTA, people should simply rent under those conditions. Nobody in their right mind should rent as a 'licencee'.

endacl

drumswan wrote: »

Shes not a tenant. There is plenty of protection available to tenants under the RTA, people should simply rent under those conditions. Nobody in their right mind should rent as a 'licencee'.

I did. Worked very well. Rent was cheaper. Arrangement was more flexible. Landlady was sound. We're still good friends. Nice house to move into. None of the 'you broke a cup, so I'm keeping your deposit' cr4p.

The only issues I've ever had renting have been with landlords. They've been few and far between, but they've never been when renting a room.

The RTA is only there to protect both parties when one starts acting the bollix. In the grand scheme of things, reasonable people should never have to resort to its provisions.