Dublin City marathon

tunguska

menoscemo wrote: »

Haha man, you have really changed

Just out of interest what would your weekly mileage look like?

Also do you think you're own injuries have tempered your approach? If you were 'bulletproof' like say KC, would you still be knocking out the long JD style runs/sessions?

I have changed my training philosophy for sure, but it wasn't due to injuries. I'd actually gotten to the point where I was injury free before I changed my approach. I just slowly came to the realisation that you Dont need to do as much as a lot of people think you do. Like some folks are training like robots, just blindly following a plan or doing something because that's how somebody else is training. Or they're just plain obsessed and literally have lost the ability to stop or cut back when its what they need to do.
I just think it's all about making smart decisions where your health and physical well being are the priority, nothing else. And when your health is the primary focus it means you'll always make good decisions and question anything that would put your health in jeopardy.

No I won't be knocking out any JD sessions, not because I'm afraid of injury, but because I think its overkill. 18weeks is too long and the sessions leave you raggedy and overcooked.
Personally I'll be taking a less is more approach from now on. I just think the price you pay for running high miles and flogging your body isn't worth it in the long run. I see these old dudes at races and theyre in bits. They're knees are shot, they've had hip replacements and they look beat up. They've run a **** load of marathons and their bodies are falling apart. Theres nothimg glamorous or dignified about that, its not something to aspire to. And all I know is I dont want any part of that, I don't wanna be one of those old guys hobbling around races because I didn't look after my body, or worse still, not able to do anything sports wise because of the way you battered your body when you were younger.

Gavlor

@ Tunguska..... Will you be my coach??????!!

Ososlo

^^^^tunguska, that post is worthy of a thread of its own - The effects that years and years of high mileage can have on your health in later life... Something a lot of people probably need to think about.

xElDeeX

Ososlo wrote: »

^^^^tunguska, that post is worthy of a thread of its own - The effects that years and years of high mileage can have on your health in later life... Something a lot of people probably need to think about.

Ummm...as someone who works in healthcare, there is no way all those miles are more damaging than sitting on your arse (for the vast majority of people.) The level of function in your average sedentary person at 50+ is ridiculously poor.

Maybe as active people your standards are higher but the fact that these older people you are talking about are participating in races speaks for itself.

tunguska

xElDeeX wrote: »

Ummm...as someone who works in healthcare, there is no way all those miles are more damaging than sitting on your arse (for the vast majority of people.) The level of function in your average sedentary person at 50+ is ridiculously poor.

Maybe as active people your standards are higher but the fact that these older people you are talking about are participating in races speaks for itself.

But why does it have to be one extreme nor the other? Just because you're not knocking out high mileage over the years doesn't mean you're doing nothing either, there's a middle ground where you train and keep yourself in good nick but you don't sit around doing ****all

xElDeeX

tunguska wrote: »

But why does it have to be one extreme nor the other? Just because you're not knocking out high mileage over the years doesn't mean you're doing nothing either, there's a middle ground where you train and keep yourself in good nick but you don't sit around doing ****all

Absolutely, but when the case is made for training having a detrimental effect you can bet its fuel for those looking for an excuse to do nothing. I deal with thousands of people every year....I have come across a handful of runners. Now either they are too incapacitated to make the journey in, or they have little need for acute care.

Stazza

davedanon wrote: »

I assume you're joking with your conclusion, given the previous post, but, I can tell you how 90% of running people would respond to one of these "I know a guy who..." stories. How fast could he be if he trained properly? Or at all, taking your post to be literally true.

This guy's the real deal (sometimes he trains with a guy I help, Jake Krong) and what's more, in 2007 he had stomach cancer- he trained through his chemotherapy too. He's about as humble as they come. I've had many conversations with him about his training, circuitously trying to get him to do more miles and more marathon specific training, but he's just got a different mindset. He's unusual too in that he just seems to do whatever he fancies on the the day. I suppose he's the running equivalent of a soul surfer.

He's now 35 and looking to do the US Olympic marathon trials time of 2:18. He's upped the running element of his training but still does rucks of stairmaster and all the cross training stuff.

For anybody thinking this is bs, here's a bit about him.

28064212

Stazza wrote: »

I know a guy who did the 2002 Kona Ironman. After this he concentrated on running marathons. He's now run nearly 50 marathons with 17 wins ( I think). His best time is 2:20:XX. He nearly always runs sub 2:30; he's been sub 2:25 many times. But here's the rub: he hardly ever runs. He trains on the bike, the rower, the elliptical and stairmaster. He will run sometimes but more often than not he doesn't. And when he does run, he doesn't do too much. He will do runs longer than 20 but he ran his pb off pretty much no running. Maybe, just maybe you don't need to run at all to run a decent marathon.

From his own words:

the ramp up to this race was very rushed and I really only went into this race with about 3 quality weeks of running training; a 58 mile week, an 80 mile week that included a 23 mile run and the Provo Half, and a 70 mile that ended with 5k

I wouldn't describe that as "hardly ever runs". Particularly when he says that it wasn't a high quality preparation. I don't doubt that he probably uses cross-training more than your "average" elite, but to say he hardly ever runs is patently bs

Tyrone_03

The plan said 12 today but the conditions and everything else was perfect.

A nice 17 miles clocked out.

Getting close to Taper Time!

tunguska

xElDeeX wrote: »

Absolutely, but when the case is made for training having a detrimental effect you can bet its fuel for those looking for an excuse to do nothing. I deal with thousands of people every year....I have come across a handful of runners. Now either they are too incapacitated to make the journey in, or they have little need for acute care.

Yeah there'll always be people who are lazy and do nothing no matter what. But I have a mate whos a physio and he would get the opposite from what you seem to get in your profession. He gets a lot of older runners coming to him with long term injuries(knees, hips, back, pelvis) who ignore his advice to cut back or to even stop running for a while to get their bodies sorted. They invariably just want to be patched back together in the short term so that they can keep on running and make things even worse.
Anyway my intention is not to derail the DCM thread, and as Ososlo said, this is probably a seperate discussion in itself, even though its an umcomfortable topic and not something a lot of people want to even consider......All Im saying is(and especially for newbies) question everything. Dont just do 20 mile runs or 3hr runs because somebody told you that thats what they do or because a dude name Higdon put a plan up on the google machine which says for you to do this or that. Make your own decisions and do your own thing. Like DR said do what works for you but to know what works for you, you gotta experiment. You'll make mistakes, a lot of them, but all the while you'll be figuring out how to train and race in a way that suits you. And always make your health and physical wellbeing the priority. If thats number one and you base all your decisions around keeping yourself healthy then you wont go wrong.

Stazza

28064212 wrote: »

From his own words:

I wouldn't describe that as "hardly ever runs". Particularly when he says that it wasn't a high quality preparation. I don't doubt that he probably uses cross-training more than your "average" elite, but to say he hardly ever runs is patently bs

I think you will find that when he's talking about his weekly mileage he includes cross training. So, if he does an 80 mile week you'll normally find that 50 miles (give or take a few yards) of that might actually be cross training.

But yeah, he does run and run a bit, but not a lot, especially if you consider his times. And like I said, his pb, which isn't the race you/I cited, was off hardly any running; it was pretty much all cross training - there were a few runs in there but not many.

On average he probably runs about 30-50 miles a week. In my book - for a 2:20 guy - that's hardly any running. More recently, he has increased his 'running' mileage - it'll be interesting to see how he goes...

All the same, I'm not advocating cross training as a way to train for a marathon.

physiopad

tunguska wrote: »

Yeah there'll always be people who are lazy and do nothing no matter what. But I have a mate whos a physio and he would get the opposite from what you seem to get in your profession. He gets a lot of older runners coming to him with long term injuries(knees, hips, back, pelvis) who ignore his advice to cut back or to even stop running for a while to get their bodies sorted. They invariably just want to be patched back together in the short term so that they can keep on running and make things even worse.
Anyway my intention is not to derail the DCM thread, and as Ososlo said, this is probably a seperate discussion in itself, even though its an umcomfortable topic and not something a lot of people want to even consider......All Im saying is(and especially for newbies) question everything. Dont just do 20 mile runs or 3hr runs because somebody told you that thats what they do or because a dude name Higdon put a plan up on the google machine which says for you to do this or that. Make your own decisions and do your own thing. Like DR said do what works for you but to know what works for you, you gotta experiment. You'll make mistakes, a lot of them, but all the while you'll be figuring out how to train and race in a way that suits you. And always make your health and physical wellbeing the priority. If thats number one and you base all your decisions around keeping yourself healthy then you wont go wrong.

It might be beneficial to create a separate thread discussing high quality studies on the effect of long distance running on hip, knee joints etc.

I don't think a thread titled 'Dublin City Marathon' is the best place to spout factually incorrect statements and to scaremonger about the dangers of running with 4 weeks to go.

tunguska

tunguska wrote: »

Anyway my intention is not to derail the DCM thread, and as Ososlo said, this is probably a seperate discussion in itself

physiopad wrote: »

It might be beneficial to create a separate thread discussing high quality studies on the effect of long distance running on hip, knee joints etc.

You really should have read my post properly

FOXFISH1

I did the DCM last year and felt that the mile markers along the road were inaccurate, simply judging by my pace.

Can anyone tell me if the mile markers are just a rough guide or are they quite accurate.
I'd prefer to use them to pace myself rather than runkeeper or some app like that.

ooter

FOXFISH1 wrote: »

I did the DCM last year and felt that the mile markers along the road were inaccurate, simply judging by my pace.

Can anyone tell me if the mile markers are just a rough guide or are they quite accurate.
I'd prefer to use them to pace myself rather than runkeeper or some app like that.

Don't know but I used a garmin watch for the first time in a race last week in the HM and the 1 mile marker was way off,it was about 1:07 on my watch before we passed the 1 mile marker.but overall I clocked 13:15 so the total distance was spot on.

ger664

Run with one of the pace groups (every 10 minutes from 3:00 to 5:00) and let them worry about the accuracy of the mile markers.

TFBubendorfer

FOXFISH1 wrote: »

I did the DCM last year and felt that the mile markers along the road were inaccurate, simply judging by my pace.

Can anyone tell me if the mile markers are just a rough guide or are they quite accurate.
I'd prefer to use them to pace myself rather than runkeeper or some app like that.

For some reason, the first mile marker always seems way too early. All the others should be very accurate, though. They definitely were last year.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

For some reason, the first mile marker always seems way too early. All the others should be very accurate, though. They definitely were last year.

Yep, the year it was televised I remember Jerry Kiernan saying they had gone out at WR pace as they passed the 1 mile marker :pac:
This year with the new course the markers would have had to be reset. I ran part of the course from Terenure to St Vincents today and say lots of mile markers painted on the road.

echancrure

menoscemo wrote: »

This year with the new course the markers would have had to be reset. I ran part of the course from Terenure to St Vincents today and say lots of mile markers painted on the road.

Are those mile markers easy to see on the day given the amount of runners and the crowd?

I'll be relying on them for pacing so I can't afford to miss too many of them, especially the early ones.

RayCun

echancrure wrote: »

Are those mile markers easy to see on the day given the amount of runners and the crowd?

I'll be relying on them for pacing so I can't afford to miss too many of them, especially the early ones.

You will hear a chorus of garmins going off around each mile marker

menoscemo

echancrure wrote: »

Are those mile markers easy to see on the day given the amount of runners and the crowd?

I'll be relying on them for pacing so I can't afford to miss too many of them, especially the early ones.

Well yeah, they have big signs at each mile and 5k mark, however they have to be attatched to the nearest lamp post which is not always in the exact place. The paint at the side of the road marks the exact spot.

Chartsengrafs

RayCun wrote: »

You will hear a chorus of garmins going off around each mile marker

You'll also hear them every kilometre that passes! Just to confuse matters.

nerraw1111

Basster wrote: »

You'll also hear them every kilometre that passes! Just to confuse matters.

And you'll be stuck with one runner who's garmin is way off.

Ran the last 13 miles of course today. It feels fast. Miles are spray painted on road.

Mace are currently doing bottles of lucozade for €1. Handy for long runs.

neilc

Was always planning on waiting till the last minute just to be sure (injury/health) but finally put my entry through this evening!!

Only a couple of days left people!!

yaboya1

At exactly this time in four weeks, we'll be getting under way in Dublin.
Can't wait!! (even though immediately after finishing yesterday I said I wasn't running it :P. Silly pre-alchol talk :pac::pac:)

Gavlor

yaboya1 wrote: »

At exactly this time in four weeks, we'll be getting under way in Dublin.
Can't wait!! (even though immediately after finishing yesterday I said I wasn't running it :P. Silly pre-alchol talk :pac::pac:)

Why are you both awake and coherent?!

yaboya1

Gavlor wrote: »

Why are you both awake and coherent?!

No idea. I'm also staying in a third floor apartment with no lift and had no problems negotiating the stairs. Did yesterday actually happen? Or was it all a dream? :eek:

ecoli

yaboya1 wrote: »

No idea. I'm also staying in a third floor apartment with no lift and had no problems negotiating the stairs. Did yesterday actually happen? Or was it all a dream? :eek:

You took the blue pill it seems, guess you don't get to see how far the rabbit hole goes

rovers_runner

Did miles 0-20 of the route on Saturday afternoon, the first 7 are a fair bit easier than the old route.
The roads have better surfaces along the quays also in comparison to old route, the camber is a lot less severe.

The Noble Nudge

Nutrition question for a newbie.
Doing my first marathon and havent a clue about eating and running.
I bought a hydration pack and found it great.
I tried caffeine gels while I got a boost from them I found them hard on the body.
Someone suggested jelly squares to me?
I don't fancy having to carry loads on me for the run itself,
Any advice would be grateful thanks.