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7 dead in Californian Shooting

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 383 ✭✭Mike747


    What was the original title to this thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭Davei141


    Suing is the best thing to do in these circumstances - I mean, what else can they do? The guy behind it all is dead, so they're not going to get any justice for the deaths of their loved ones. If they sue, they can try and make a difference in their screwed-up country, so maybe it won't happen again to some other family.

    The guy was completely deranged and you can't fault the parents - everything I've read is that they tried to do something about it, but the guy was too good at acting and the cops fell for it.

    Sue for the sake of it out of anger. Makes sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    It certainly looks like he had a severe dose of narcissism. The fact he couldn't "get" a woman probably seriously conflicted with his high opinion of himself. As i said earlier in the thread he was unwilling ,or more likely, unable to see the faults in himself so he blamed all women instead.

    The everything else i keep seeing from his manifesto seems to point to him having a huge ego and superiority complex which ties in with the whole narcissism.

    Read the epilogue. He basically says that only he is second to god. He suffered from a severe case of grand delusion.
    If he was your son and that manifesto popped up after a google search, would you not go up the stairs immediately and beat the living shoit out of him?

    The chances are you wouldn't have seen it before it was too late. The original date (actually, it was supposed to happen in October 2013 but he broke his ankle) was the 26th of April but he got a cold a couple of days beforehand as he was just going to re-upload his videos and upload the manifesto. He postponed it all for the 24th of May.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Un Croissant


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    Read the epilogue. He basically says that only he is second to god. He suffered from a severe case of grand delusion.



    The chances are you wouldn't have seen it before it was too late. The original date (actually, it was supposed to happen in October 2013 but he broke his ankle) was the 26th of April but he got a cold a couple of days beforehand as he was just going to re-upload his videos and upload the manifesto. He postponed it all for the 24th of May.

    Couldn't go on a murder suicide spree due to a cold? Kids, eh?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    If he was your son and that manifesto popped up after a google search, would you not go up the stairs immediately and beat the living shoit out of him?

    No you would do what his own parents did ..which was call the police and report him.

    They did this ...the police did nothing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Un Croissant


    Lou.m wrote: »
    No you would do what his own parents did ..which was call the police and report him.

    They did this ...the police did nothing.

    I don't know. I guess youd like to think your first instinct would be that your son isn't a murdering lunatic and as such would have no qualms about walking into his room and politely asking 'what the actual f**k?' If you knew he was liable to snap then of course ring the police/cops/guards.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭previous user


    I noticed in other forums people mentioning about how men can react negatively
    to womens rejections like women owe them something,
    Could this be an extreme
    example of that of men being conditioned by influences in society to expect
    something from women, just curious what influences that type of behaviour or is it just biological?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    That was his step-mother and he has portrayed her as a bitch. She ruled the roost and he didn't like that.

    His mother is from China and he got on well with her for the most part.

    This guy was unbelievable. He wouldn't take a retail job coz it was beneath him. He was disgusted to have been housed with Hispanics in Santa Barbara. He said he was above black people coz they came from slaves and he from English Aristocracy.

    He demanded his mother marry one of her well classed boyfriends so HE could have a better life.

    He is ALL over the web.

    He wrote this on a body building site.
    Seriously today at my college I saw this short ugly Indian guy driving a Honda Civic and he had a hot blonde girl in his passenger seat. What on earth is up with that? I would climb mount Everest ten times to have a girl like that with me. I drive a BMW coupe and all of my life I've struggled to get a girlfriend. Does anyone else get disturbed and offended when you see sights like this? Someone make sense of this ridiculousness

    Then when another man replies with
    lol I don't get offended
    But then again I don't have trouble with women
    He probably has power and wealth and She is probably drawn to that

    THIS IS ELLIOT'S RESPONSE
    Did you even read my post he was driving a Honda Civic an old model Honda Civic at that?



    He goes on to write,
    "I find it unjust that a white girl would choose him over me."
    Go to places where there are lots of people. I've seen it a few times at college campuses. The guys aren't even rich I saw one such couple get into a beat up car. Seeing a poor ugly guy with a hot girl actually makes me more angry than a good looking guy with a hot girl because it doesn't make sense

    *Elliot Finds out women are on the whole not golddiggers vents frustration on internet* ...women are not evil so they are so evil....women:mad:

    He can't fathom that normal people are not so shallow and status obsessed.

    This is really awful this next bit ...
    In his videos and Facebook postings, Rodger also makes a point to flaunt and play up his status and wealth. Many of his Facebook photos are of his BMW coupe and the Mercedes SUV, which belong to his father. In his videos, he frequently alludes to his designer clothes and expensive cars.

    Reading his manifesto, however, it becomes clear that although Rodger and his family are well-off, they aren't as "rich" as he wishes. Rodger frequently compares his own status against that of his peers. Whether it is being embarrassed by the neighborhood his mother lives in, or wanting to prove his affluence through the purchase of expensive clothing or vacations, Rodger presents an image of never feeling good enough.


    Late in his manifesto, he writes:
    "I will always resent my mother for refusing to do this. If not for her sake, she should have done it for mine.[/COLOR] Joining a family of great wealth would have truly saved my life. I would have a high enough status to attract beautiful girlfriends, and live above all of my enemies. All of my horrific troubles would have been eased instantly. It is very selfish of my mother to not consider this.

    When you read what he wrote, or actually listen to it, it is really apparent that this guy had such an ego that people could probably feel it when it got near to them. Of course he couldn't face the truth, and that he wasn't wanted because of how he behaved and treated others and how he saw others as less than. He wanted to use status to make friends ...people did not want to be friends because he thought he could use status to buy them instead of being an actual friend.


    It is difficult to know what he was going through. He appears to have suffered chronic from shyness. He appears to have gone from low self esteem to ego mania. I think ego mania is the Ultimate in low self esteem.
    Rodger had what appears to have been an idyllic start in life, moving to the Sussex countryside where he attended Dorset House, a fee-paying school on the South Downs. In his writing, he described the area fondly, recalling time spent with his grandparents, and the day he learned to fly a kite on the rolling hills with his father, Peter. Sussex, he wrote, “was where I spent my early childhood the first five years of my life, and it was beautiful”.
    It was to this period that he frequently returned in his thoughts, describing his experiences on the school sports field as “the first inkling of my shortcomings”. Those shortcomings would eventually give way to feelings of alienation and self-pity, which came to manifest themselves in a hatred of women, whom Rodger believed had slighted and ignored him.

    I think he judged himself with the same sternness and shallowness he judged the rest of the world and without giving worth to individuals for just being them you don't have it yourself.
    Rodger’s parents’ divorce, shortly after his seventh birthday, appeared to affect him deeply. “I believe it was my mother who told me that she and my father were getting a divorce; my mother, who only a few months before told me that such a thing will never happen,”But by then he had already been scarred by the divorce. “The family I grew up with has split in half,” he wrote, “and from then on I would grow up in two different households. I remember crying. All the happy times I spent with my mother and father as a family were gone.”
    After his father remarried, Rodger wrote that his relationship with his step-mother, the Moroccan-born French actress Soumaya Akaaboune, became increasingly tense. He also began to find social interaction difficult. His paranoia left him adrift from society and unable to forge meaningful friendships.

    If his parents had any emotional intelligence and intuition perhaps they could have helped him early on. They don't seem to be very involved in his inner world and I would expect parents to be in there in the kids head guiding things at that age.
    One of the most unusual elements of the lengthy document is the record of his encounters with a girl of around his own age, who is understood to be the daughter of a British musician. She would, he wrote, “eventually come to represent everything I hate and despise; everything that is against me, everything that I’m against. I was playing innocently with this girl. We even took baths together; it was the only time in my life that I would see a girl my age naked.”

    By 13, Rodger stated, he was known as the “weird kid” at his school. He saw all girls as “mean, cruel, and heartless creatures that took pleasure in my suffering”. He retreated deeper and deeper into the world of online role-playing games, his favourite being World of Warcraft, which he would play for hours, according to the manifesto.



    He wrote that when he saw people happy it upset him ...so i guess he imagined people were happy he was sad. Instead of realizing they were most probably very concerned for him indeed. And were infact probably trying to help him in various ways.

    His parting words betray no suggestion of last-minute reflection. Pages and pages of violent, misogynistic ramblings end with a promise to follow through: “I didn’t start this war. I wasn’t the one who struck first. But I will finish it by striking back. I will punish everyone. And it will be beautiful. Finally, at long last, I can show the world my true worth.”

    In the end he was torturing himself and just could not take what he was doing to himself.
    Rodger also wrote that he had originally considered carrying out his murderous plan on Valentine’s Day. He then chose 26 April, but was forced to postpone his rampage when he came down with a cold.



    He is articulate and well spoken.

    :confused: It's so blazé.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    I noticed in other forums people mentioning about how men can react negatively
    to womens rejections like women owe them something,
    Could this be an extreme
    example of that of men being conditioned by influences in society to expect
    something from women, just curious what influences that type of behaviour or is it just biological?

    I don't think so.

    This is something else.

    Yes I agree some men seem to lack a theory of mind in they don't see the other point of view emotionally.

    I have seen men be vindictive towards rejection. Or even when a woman is not as keen as they think she should be. It should mean no effort snap your fingers etc.

    This is not that ... this is crazy...he focused on this aspect of his life. But the manifesto read like Hitler's Mein Kampf in some places!

    And it is not just women he hates. He hates the men who women give themselves to especially if he feels they are 'lower than him' by his standards. He can't imagine that humans choose to be around people who are benevolent not malevolent to others. He looks down on poor people, black people. The reason people especially women don't want to be around him is because he hates them or thinks he is better than them. He expects adoration. If he does not get them to accept him as superior he feels hard done by and rejected and shows disdain.

    He needs people especially to accept he is better than them to feel loved in his head. Normal friendship or relationships are not about one person being in control or superior they are about mutual feeling. And so normal relationships feel to him like he is hard done by. And he wants to punish people for it. He would not love women he would give them his obsession and in return he would want adoration and he would need complete control.



    This is obviously impossible and people would find it damaging to be around him. So he becomes isolated.

    He is misanthropic and feels envy and anger when he sees couples together.

    Men might feel very hard done by rejection depending on the man ...but even in extreme circumstances ...normal people have enough empathy and altruism to work through their own emotions you stop feeling hard done by when you start feeling it from the others point of view and start considering their needs compassionately.

    I don't think it's the same thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭Adamantium


    His videos and existential dread/despair exemplifed in them, represent the worst parts of the California material culture in all it's glory and grime

    GTA V had a lot of social commentary on California and the American Dream, and had it down PAT.

    (An ironic thing considering some people would jump at the chance to say entertainment like this would have incited it)

    Just listen to this,
    It screams adriftness, disconnected enough:

    Also very relaxing and beautiful.calming paradoxically!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Lou.m wrote: »
    No you would do what his own parents did ..which was call the police and report him.

    They did this ...the police did nothing.
    There wasn't much the police could do. Sure if they'd gone into his room they'd have found the guns, but they couldn't have gone in without a warrant and, AFAIK, for a warrant you need evidence, and if judges were to sign warrants for every nutter that posted misogynistic videos on YouTube they'd be doing nothing else all day.

    Personally I'm amazed that he was able to buy guns when he had a history of mental illness. Those laws need to be toughened up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    I'm nearly finished skimming through the manifesto. He was one sick puppy.

    It's a fascinating read, isn't it? It's terrifying seeing how a mind like that thinks.

    If it were a work of fiction, people would dismiss it as being unrealistic and unbelievable - nobody could be that f*cked up. The scary thing is when you remind yourself that it's actually real.


  • Registered Users Posts: 546 ✭✭✭Azwaldo55


    If he had been taken alive Rodger would have used his trial for maximum publicity and he probably perversely would have legions of female fans turning up to watch the trial or corresponding with him declaring their undying love.
    The same thing happened at Richard Rodriguez's and Ted Bundy's trials.
    More recently the Boston bomber made the cover of Rolling Stone and teenage girls online declared their undying love.
    I call it the Clarice Starling syndrome after the FBI agent in the Silence Of The Lambs who falls in love with Hannibal The Cannibal.
    The media has turned these creeps and losers into godlike supervillains - the most recent example was the Joker who became an iconic figure after the late Heath Ledger passed away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    The media has turned these creeps and losers into godlike supervillains - the most recent example was the Joker who became an iconic figure after the late Heath Ledger passed away.

    The Joker wasn't iconic before Heath Ledger died?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭FortuneChip


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    The media has turned these creeps and losers into godlike supervillains - the most recent example was the Joker who became an iconic figure after the late Heath Ledger passed away.

    I agree with your point, but not the example.
    The Joker IS a godlike supervillain. He's not more iconic because of Ledger's death, but because of his portrayal.

    I watched two of Rodgers videos, and they make my blood boil.
    It's his use of superlatives when calling himself a gentleman, "supreme" & "fantastic" followed by his disgusting elitism over people from a different class.

    While there may be some tragedy to sympathise with (I don't see one), I find him a horrible coward. The videos are so surreal, it's like he doesn't appreciate the value of human life. He sounds like he's reading a very very poor script and playing the part of the evil villain. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,797 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Azwaldo55 wrote: »
    the most recent example was the Joker who became an iconic figure after the late Heath Ledger passed away.

    Cesar Romero would like to have a word!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭sadie06


    I'm not going to plough through his printed ramblings, but his video is incredibly rehearsed and measured. The mask slips every now and then though. He lets out these short sighs that really sound so full of angst and give a far bigger insight into his state of mind then his Hollywood villain-style delivery.

    I feel race had a lot to do with this. He seems embarrassed by his own racial mix and fixated on what he perceived as white supremacy. People with Aspergers tend to obsess about a few strands in their life that surface as common themes in their early years. His obsessions seem to have been his family's wealth (both historically and presently) and the 'things' that wealth should bring, girls being one of them. His other obsession seems to have been 'whiteness' and even different levels of whiteness, and what being lighter skinned should bring to you in life.

    The empathetic deficit caused by his Aspergers must have fed into him elevating these so called attributes to a level where he believed all you needed to 'get' a beautiful, white, hot girl was obvious wealth, and light skin.

    From his narrow viewpoint, he was never going to be any better equipped than he was now to succeed with girls, so they must be the problem! He was extremely ill I think, and one thing to be thankful for is that he didn't meet a like minded individual on one of the many fora he frequented which could have resulted in even greater losses.

    Surely one of the questions on a form when being assessed for suitability for gun ownership should be 'Are you seeing a therapist/psychiatrist?". If the answer is yes, a medical report should have to be submitted by your practitioner.

    It's such a sad situation for the victim's families, but for his family also who must live with what he has done, and no doubt question every decision they ever made in the past.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    sadie06 wrote: »
    Surely one of the questions on a form when being assessed for suitability for gun ownership should be 'Are you seeing a therapist/psychiatrist?". If the answer is yes, a medical report should have to be submitted by your practitioner.
    .

    Was he even seeing one? That may be a major issue as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭c0rk3r


    Manifesto wrote:
    Jealousy and envy... those are two feelings that would dominate my entire life and bring me immense pain. The feeling of jealousy I felt at nine-years-old were frustrating, but they were nothing compared to how i would feel once i hit puberty and have to watch girls choosing other boys over me

    I'm reading his manifesto at the moment. Currently on page 16. The first part chronicles his early childhood and the people involved in it. The guy has an amazing memory as i couldn't tell you what i done last week. So far, the above quote really sums him up. He also had a superiority complex regarding his height (as well as everything else). He was the shortest guy in his class which he soon discovered meant he was physically weaker compared to the other boys. He resented this ("this vexed me no end")

    Its funny reading through the previous pages of this thread about him being wealthy / Rich. Its all kind of relative though. When you're hanging around with multi-millionaires (100's), your own doesn't seem that much. Very similar to Gerry Ryan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 495 ✭✭nails1


    Look at this dude's hairstyle though. No wonder he couldn't get laid.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Was he even seeing one? That may be a major issue as well.

    He was. He emailed a 150 page "manifesto" to his therapist and 29 other people 15 mins before he started shooting.

    I've just watched his video ("Well, here we are.....")

    He comes across as a guy who believes he's in a movie. He seems to have convinced himself that shooting people is pretty much the only logical thing to do, given the position that the world has put him in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    sadie06 wrote: »
    I'm not going to plough through his printed ramblings, but his video is incredibly rehearsed and measured. The mask slips every now and then though. He lets out these short sighs that really sound so full of angst and give a far bigger insight into his state of mind then his Hollywood villain-style delivery.

    I feel race had a lot to do with this. He seems embarrassed by his own racial mix and fixated on what he perceived as white supremacy. People with Aspergers tend to obsess about a few strands in their life that surface as common themes in their early years. His obsessions seem to have been his family's wealth (both historically and presently) and the 'things' that wealth should bring, girls being one of them. His other obsession seems to have been 'whiteness' and even different levels of whiteness, and what being lighter skinned should bring to you in life.

    The empathetic deficit caused by his Aspergers must have fed into him elevating these so called attributes to a level where he believed all you needed to 'get' a beautiful, white, hot girl was obvious wealth, and light skin.

    From his narrow viewpoint, he was never going to be any better equipped than he was now to succeed with girls, so they must be the problem! He was extremely ill I think, and one thing to be thankful for is that he didn't meet a like minded individual on one of the many fora he frequented which could have resulted in even greater losses.

    Surely one of the questions on a form when being assessed for suitability for gun ownership should be 'Are you seeing a therapist/psychiatrist?". If the answer is yes, a medical report should have to be submitted by your practitioner.

    It's such a sad situation for the victim's families, but for his family also who must live with what he has done, and no doubt question every decision they ever made in the past.

    I want to point out here that people with Aspergers are no more likely to commit crimes like this than the rest of the population.

    And many live full very productive lives and have fulfilling positive love lives.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Plus one. From my reading of it whatever disorder was going on was more of a narcissistic nature. An inherent weakness fueled by a sense of self entitlement coming with an often ivory tower self indulgent streak in this sort of background. He found out life isn't fair and money, background and car doesn't get you what you want. Throw that into the mix with a serious mental disorder and this crap kicks off. Here's another Hollywood kid who flipped too, only this one used a car rather than a gun.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Plus one. From my reading of it whatever disorder was going on was more of a narcissistic nature. An inherent weakness fueled by a sense of self entitlement coming with an often ivory tower self indulgent streak in this sort of background. He found out life isn't fair and money, background and car doesn't get you what you want. Throw that into the mix with a serious mental disorder and this crap kicks off. Here's another Hollywood kid who flipped too, only this one used a car rather than a gun.

    Wow it happened in the same place as well.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep. Over the years I've met a couple of such kids. Not batshít psychos like this, but they most certainly lived in a rarified, self entitled and overly indulged world and that tended to come out in their personality. If such a person had a tendency towards sociopathic/psychopathic wiring it could find fertile soil in such an environment.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,840 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    Couldn't go on a murder suicide spree due to a cold? Kids, eh?

    He said he needed everything to be perfect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    c0rk3r wrote: »
    I'm reading his manifesto at the moment. Currently on page 16. The first part chronicles his early childhood and the people involved in it. The guy has an amazing memory as i couldn't tell you what i done last week.

    Wouldn't you just hate to be one of the people named in it?

    For anyone who hasn't read it, he mentions the full names of just about everyone he's ever met in his life! Most of whom he hates, for whatever reason. Or is obsessed with them. Or both. And he posts incredibly personal private details about some of them, like really personal stuff, and now it's out there for everyone in the world to read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Wouldn't you just hate to be one of the people named in it?

    For anyone who hasn't read it, he mentions the full names of just about everyone he's ever met in his life! Most of whom he hates, for whatever reason. Or is obsessed with them. Or both. And he posts incredibly personal private details about some of them, like really personal stuff, and now it's out there for everyone in the world to read.

    Does he say much about the guys he was living with?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    psinno wrote: »
    Does he say much about the guys he was living with?

    I'm only halfway through it, but I did skim through the last few pages before I started reading. Basically some vile racist stuff about them, something about how much he'd enjoy stabbing them in their sleep, I can't remember exactly but it was awful. Imagine their friends and family reading that someday!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    The rants he goes off on about non-white people are just astounding, considering he's half-Asian! Kind of reminds me of Hitler with the whole Aryan ideal.


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