Feedback thread 2014

Paul Tergat

Beasty wrote: »

Trolling is breaking the rules. Everyone has different views of what constitues trolling. If a poster gets reported regularly by the same person that's going to carry less weight that when we see the same poster reporetd by numerous different posters, as in some cases people seem to go out of their way only to report certain posters or fans of certain clubs. Clearly the mods assess the report, will take into account whether there is more than one report, the history of teh poster in question, will discuss with the other mods if they see fit then act accordingly. If it doesn't get reported at all though there's a fair chance it won't get even looked at.

Aye I dont think that would be my definition of trolling.

I dont think I have ever reported a post as 99% of the time I can just ignore it but sometimes when you see the same people not breaking rules but doing something with the pure intention to provoke a reaction (the worst ones are those who then play the innocent 'oh i didnt see it already posted' type of bs) its really irritating. I think its clear but maybe thats just me seeing certain posters patterns of behaviour

Beasty

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I dont think I have ever reported a post as 99% of the time I can just ignore it

But this is the point. There have been many posts during the course of the day complaining about low level trolling. That's fine. It's a topic that comes up every year. However there have also been comments about lack of consistency amongst the mods. The point I will keep coming back to is the mods are heavily reliant on reported posts. Moreso in this forum than certainly any other Sports forum. Some days there are upwards of 3000 posts in the forum. Sometimes a page will "turn over" in a matter of a couple of minutes. The mods can act reasonably consistently on reported posts (I say reasonably as we are not robots, well most of us are not anyway:pac:). However there is so much stuff there is simply not enough time for then to see in this forum. Hence any apparent inconsistency is likely to emanate from the fact that a lot of stuff is simply not getting reported. If you see stuff you think is trolling, low-level or otherwise (and this applies to all those who are commenting about the lack ppf action againt low level trolls) report it. Don't rely on others doing so, as they are likely to adopt the same approach. We also definitely will take more account of the general feelings about certain posters if we see a lot of reports about them from a number of different posters

Paul Tergat

Beasty wrote: »

But this is the point. There have been many posts during the course of the day complaining about low level trolling. That's fine. It's a topic that comes up every year. However there have also been comments about lack of consistency amongst the mods. The point I will keep coming back to is the mods are heavily reliant on reported posts. Moreso in this forum than certainly any other Sports forum. Some days there are upwards of 3000 posts in the forum. Sometimes a page will "turn over" in a matter of a couple of minutes. The mods can act reasonably consistently on reported posts (I say reasonably as we are not robots, well most of us are not anyway:pac:). However there is so much stuff there is simply not enough time for then to see in this forum. Hence any apparent inconsistency is likely to emanate from the fact that a lot of stuff is simply not getting reported. If you see stuff you think is trolling, low-level or otherwise (and this applies to all those who are commenting about the lack ppf action againt low level trolls) report it. Don't rely on others doing so, as they are likely to adopt the same approach. We also definitely will take more account of the general feelings about certain posters if we see a lot of reports about them from a number of different posters

Beasty wrote: »

Trolling is breaking the rules. Everyone has different views of what constitues trolling. If a poster gets reported regularly by the same person that's going to carry less weight that when we see the same poster reporetd by numerous different posters, as in some cases people seem to go out of their way only to report certain posters or fans of certain clubs. Clearly the mods assess the report, will take into account whether there is more than one report, the history of teh poster in question, will discuss with the other mods if they see fit then act accordingly. If it doesn't get reported at all though there's a fair chance it won't get even looked at.

This is surely an issue in light of the point being made. Reporting someone who is acting the maggot, which the mods dont really see as being that way, can end up acting against the person reporting the posts.

Pro. F

Regarding low levelling trolling, I've got some positive feedback.

There was a very subtle bit of trolling going on in the United thread during the season, one particular poster occasionally popping in and just using strange repetitive language and repeating the same weird "advice" as to what United should do to improve the team. It was definitely being posted with the intention of pissing off the United fans and it was going on for a good few months. When I reported one of the posts and pointed out the pattern the problem went away. From that point on that line of low level trolling was gone. Whatever the mods did it worked, so well done there.

Kess73

Liam O wrote: »

Because it wasn't breaking the charter.

Also I find it kind of petty from what I've heard that there's a group of posters who will report other fans as soon as they slip when talking to these people. Also the fact that mods of any forum can see who I report mean I probably wont be doing much reporting at all really. It will just lead to people finding out I have reported them and being out to get me back.

An alternative would be to pm whichever soccer mod you see showing up as being online at the time.


But to comment somewhat on the point you are making, and I do think it is a very valid point. I cannot go into specifics but the concerns you raised above are something that has been discussed by the current soccer mod team this season, and it is something that has been escalated to admin level.

Beasty

Paul Tergat wrote: »

This is surely an issue in light of the point being made. Reporting someone who is acting the maggot, which the mods dont really see as being that way, can end up acting against the person reporting the posts.

But it dosn't though, unless the mods think there is something malicious in the reporting. What I'm saying is that if only one person claims a specific poster is trolling that carries a lot less weight than if we see a number of posters reporting the same (and if, say, we see fans of different clubs doing it that is likely to be even more "persuasive"). Obviously the mods will review the reported post regadless, but often the wording of the report makes their lives a lot easier by putting stuff into a context that the mod may not otherwise see (or could spend a lot of time looking for and/or discussing it with other members of the mod team).

Bottom line is having a different view on a matter than the majority is not an issue. Going into a thread with the intention of disrupting it is, but only those who feel it is being disrupted can give the mods a decent feel for what's going on, unless the mods themselves are seeing it. Again given the sheer size of the forum there's every chance the mods are going to miss it (particulary in some of the fast-moving threads).

Not reporting stuff because posters feel it may count against them really is counterproductive. The mod team will actually respect posters that make their lives easier by reporting stuff they are genuinely concerned about. Indeed one of the things we look out for when considering someone for a mod role is how much they report stuff and whether they tend to report based on the the post, or a pattern of posting rather than some preconceived views of the poster.

Will I Amnt

Beasty wrote: »

But it dosn't though, unless the mods think there is something malicious in the reporting. What I'm saying is that if only one person claims a specific poster is trolling that carries a lot less weight than if we see a number of posters reporting the same (and if, say, we see fans of different clubs doing it that is likely to be even more "persuasive"). Obviously the mods will review the reported post regadless, but often the wording of the report makes their lives a lot easier by putting stuff into a context that the mod may not otherwise see (or could spend a lot of time looking for and/or discussing it with other members of the mod team).

Bottom line is having a different view on a matter than the majority is not an issue. Going into a thread with the intention of disrupting it is, but only those who feel it is being disrupted can give the mods a decent feel for what's going on, unless the mods themselves are seeing it. Again given the sheer size of the forum there's every chance the mods are going to miss it (particulary in some of the fast-moving threads).

Not reporting stuff because posters feel it may count against them really is counterproductive. The mod team will actually respect posters that make their lives easier by reporting stuff they are genuinely concerned about. Indeed one of the things we look out for when considering someone for a mod role is how much they report stuff and whether they tend to report based on the the post, or a pattern of posting rather than some preconceived views of the poster.

That can easily be abused and I've no doubt it would be by organisation through pm or other avenues.

dfx-

LOI lads/ladies, any issues?

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I generally leave any cards I issue up visible on the forum. The only time recently I have deleted posts was in a very busy thread where even after a post has been visibly actioned, they were getting re-reported and causing potential for crossed wires amongst multiple reports.

Deleted User wrote: »

What constitutes abuse is pretty hilarious and the laziness of mods when they can't be bothered infracting a couple of posts gets on my wick. A tongue-in-cheek post will get a yellow card while if several people blatantly break the the rules they either get a yellow (despite it being blatant) or better yet there'll be an on-thread warning from a mod directed at all of them and no infraction.

What constitutes abuse also needs to be cleared up. Is it any nickname used to refer to a player/manager/club by a fan of another team? Is questioning or criticising part of someone's character abuse? Is clearly tongue-in-cheek over the top stuff abuse?

Equally, you might not believe what is reported as abuse which clearly isn't. What one poster calls tongue-in-cheek will be reported as blatant abuse. There may be no way of resolving that split amongst different sets of fans. The abuse section of the charter may also prove impossible to be exhaustive enough for some, no matter how much detail is put.

The most recent addition to the abuse section is the term Chelski, are people happy with it being there?

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

Regarding low levelling trolling, I've got some positive feedback.

There was a very subtle bit of trolling going on in the United thread during the season, one particular poster occasionally popping in and just using strange repetitive language and repeating the same weird "advice" as to what United should do to improve the team. It was definitely being posted with the intention of pissing off the United fans and it was going on for a good few months. When I reported one of the posts and pointed out the pattern the problem went away. From that point on that line of low level trolling was gone. Whatever the mods did it worked, so well done there.

Whichever poster you are talking about Pro. F, I hope the advice from the mods was Taken, it's important to keep the thread in High Spirits.

---

My own 2 cents, I agree strongly with the suggestions of banning cross-thread quoting for the purpose of ridicule.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Beasty

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That can easily be abused and I've no doubt it would be by organisation through pm or other avenues.

Again though if we see a pattern emerging we and it looks like posters are co-ordinating their reports we can take that into account. Obviously no system is going to be completely failsafe, but the mods always have discretion (which some postere may not like because it may result in apparent inconsistency). You are making a point we are very conscious of, which actually helps highlight what a difficult job modding this forum is.

Now I personally tend to stay out of the forum, but am actively involved in the Soccer Mods forum. That means I see a lot of the problems the mods face without being bogged down by the sheer scale of the forum. What I will say is we have a very smart and fair mod team. However if anyone feels they would like someone else to have a look at stuff as you and one or two others already know I am always prepared to engage and discuss things directly with posters in my position as CMod.

Nuri Sahin

Darkglasses wrote: »

8 people giving up time around jobs/family can't cover everything in the forum.

I'll probably get the roll eyes treatment for this, but this is something that stems from my time for a couple of years as a moderator across Call of Duty, Gambling and Fantasy Sports Arena forums.

Things come up for all of us, both moderators and posters. I get that and that's fair enough, but you guys knew what you were signing up for when you accepted the role as a moderator of the soccer forum. If time cannot be afforded to the soccer forum during the season (off season is different), one should be questioned whether they're fit for moderating the forum. I don't think there's anything unreasonable in me saying that.

There's been moderators past and present who are rarely seen, for whatever their reasons, I can't be the only one to have noticed this. The soccer forum, like After Hours amongst other such fast paced moving forums needs active moderators, but especially so the soccer forum given the tribal nature of this place. I nor anyone is asking for moderators to be present 24/7, in spite of moderators here trotting the line out in the past in the form of a rhetorical question. Not even on a daily basis, but on a regular basis? Most definitely. During the matchthreads for a couple of teams at the very least and some of the bigger profile matches, they are an absolute necessity. If the mods here disagree with that, this forum is well and truly up crap creek without a paddle if it already isn't.

I stepped down from the three forums I was moderating as I was absolutely burnt out from having to hold the fort on two out of the three forums I moderated at the time, even all of them for couple of stretches during a time I was finishing uni, new job and moving. Whatever, stuff IRL. It was unfair of me to cling on a position of power or through plain ol laziness like so many moderators do. For posters who have perhaps thought it might be the case, it's absolutely true to be the case. I've seen countless examples of it. Some just like adding forums to their name and nothing more in truth. It's unfair on the forum community and the moderators to have moderators who are just there in name and nothing else. I could give numerous examples from the forums I frequent over the years and moderated myself, but this isn't the place for that. I'm sure people could guess who I'm on about quite easily though. In saying that, fair play to likes of GK, I'm not sure if he'll read this, but he is in minority of not clinging on to a position of power despite not having the patience or time for such a forum.

It'd be nice if moderators were under review at some point or another if not in terms of continuous assessment too, but the latter is probably asking for too much I realise that.

Darkglasses wrote: »

If people reported what they see more often, I think it'd improve the forum hugely.

This is solely for yourself Darkglasses, I have no patience to read what some of the mods of the SF opinions are as I feel all they do is go around in circles to protect themselves and their decisions.

See, this is the thing, I don't believe that to be the case due to posts I have reported in the past that have resulted in no warnings, no infractions, nothing for similar things I've been carded and a couple of times, subsequently banned for. How do you think I feel seeing that happen.

Where is the consistency? Consistency has been the biggest issue in the soccer forum for years, and no matter how many moderators the 'senior mods', mod team, CMods, admin or whoever else wish to add, nothing will change in this regards until there is a serious shake up within the team and then the charter itself.

For example, I've provided a definition of the word 'prat' a few times be it in the feedback thread or discussing things with a couple of the moderators. A quick Google of the word prat and wolla, it is - an incompetent or stupid person; an idiot. Just on that word alone, is calling Joey Barton, Carlo Ancelotti or Sepp Blatter an idiot/prat/moron or stupid, all of which are the same thing, card worthy now? If it is, you's will be handing out cards galore on a daily basis. I ask any poster to search the word prat, or better yet, the last time the word prat was used. Who is posting before and after said post makes for interesting reading. Maybe that's the difference with moderators here and myself when I was one, I wasn't simply a reactive moderator. Some posters are more likely to be reported and then be carded let's face it too. I guarantee in my case whoever reported me for using the word prat, did not bat an eyelid at others posting the word prat following me or those before me. Sad thing is, if I use the report function, I'll probably get the abuse of report function line thrown at me eventually if I do similar.

Finally on this subject, I've requested this in the feedback thread recently, but I think it should be set in stone here once and for all going forward, assuming moderators have decided to look at everything in black and white for now on without ounce of context applied to any one post, what words are deemed as abusive and thus card worthy? I wouldn't want to offend anyone here, well offend anyone when it suits them to be offended I should be really saying.


_____

A few other things on my mind.

1) Aftertiming bets needs to be clamped down upon, I myself find it irritating and I don't think I am alone. Either throw up a pic or STFU, or better yet, show some cojones and mention it beforehand and there wouldn't be an issue in the first place with asking for a picture. I'd like to think I did my part in helping with that guy in the Liverpool thread a few weeks back, but had I not? Maybe it would be an ongoing thing today.

2) Bringing up past posts. What is the purpose of someone else doing this normally? How is this not considered trolling when it's just selective posting on a subject, usually by the one or two individuals as it's their schtick to make posters look bad? Nothing more than being a wind up merchant. If they posted the full context, that's different. I did similar, albeit in my sig. Low and behold I get punished by admin . But sure, it's grand in the soccer forum. Riiiight.

3) NFSW GIFS and pictures, why was I effectively told off for posting them last year, but I see for example, the Manchester United thread, people posting similar NFSW GIFS and pics recently. Was anything said about this by the mods? Heck, wasn't there a picture of a pair of breasts with the scoreline scrawled along them in the Liverpool thread a month or two ago? I don't have a real issue with it, tbh, but for the consistency.. yet again.

4) Tags. The people trolling by tags should be named and shamed in thread. It would cut out that BS swiftly. I PM'ed a mod with someone insulting me. Recently there was one called Turtytwat too.

5) Using tragedies to get one up on a fanbase is disgusting. This should be an automatic ban for a month at least. I don't care if it's Hillsbourough, Munich, Valley Parade, Heysel, Ibrox, etc. There is no justifying it.

From a Liverpool point of view, to think posters who are making victim comments only to feign innocence, if mods can't see through this, they bloody naive to put it bluntly. Especially given their posts in general concerning Liverpool are purely negative.

6) Match threads. Oh match threads.

The same half a dozen if not more names, the minute something controversial happens or for example, X team concede, they're in as quick as a click of the fingers criticising, moaning and whining. They offer nothing but negative comments, nothing constructive, nothing positive.. for years on end.

This crap is trolling, subtle trolling, but trolling nonetheless.

7) Lastly, I'm waiting for clarification on a very recent matter from the Admins and CMods before properly commenting, but I think posters complaining about bringing grudges or feuds, whatever they wish to call it into other threads is laughable, when said posters are the ones to bring it to other websites.

Nuri Sahin

mike65 wrote: »

Turn off gifs

Haven't you posted a couple of gifs in recent times? I'm fairly sure you did.

Nuri Sahin

Ronaldo is a fantastic player, I don't think anyone can really argue that but as a person he is a complete and utter twat.

No warning.

Oh and I actually rate Nani despite him being an utter ****.

Warning.

Dozen Wicked Words

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

No warning.



Warning.

If both those examples were reported it does seem a bit inconsistent, perhaps only one was reported? /guess

Liam O

I agree with most of what you say there Nuri, just on the victim thing, I think that there is sometimes a bit of overreaction to that in here. I think 90% of the time it isn't used in a loaded sense but it's treated as such a lot of the time when there was no real malice intended. Maybe it's seen differently by others and I've never done it myself but it's getting to the stage where merely saying victim to a Liverpool fan is seen as disgusting and a swipe at Hillsborough. I don't think that's the case.

Abusing the tags facility is certainly an interesting point. Somebody put up a disgusting tag a few weeks ago in a Liverpool thread and it was removed. Never found who it was. Have my suspicions of course.

It certainly would help posters if we could find out who is punished in these cases. They could be put onto ignore or avoided in the future.

It's a very sneaky way of trolling tbh.

Agueroooo

Will I Amnt wrote: »

That can easily be abused and I've no doubt it would be by organisation through pm or other avenues.

If that is the case then all I can say is good luck to the mods cause they are going to need it.

Really ?

You could count on one hand the amount of posts I have ever reported, as I find it a bit petty, but I think there lays the problem.

I'll admit I am relying too much on the mods to act when they are probably unaware of a particular wum or troll, so back to Beasty point - report first moan later...not vice versa.

Does organised reporting actually go on? Seriously? Sounds like conspiracy stuff to me. I'd be shocked if it happens.

Mods, can you answer this as bombs being left like that in the feedback thread need to be cleared up asap.

Turtyturd

Liam O wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say there Nuri, just on the victim thing, I think that there is sometimes a bit of overreaction to that in here. I think 90% of the time it isn't used in a loaded sense but it's treated as such a lot of the time when there was no real malice intended. Maybe it's seen differently by others and I've never done it myself but it's getting to the stage where merely saying victim to a Liverpool fan is seen as disgusting and a swipe at Hillsborough. I don't think that's the case.

Just to balance things up, it happens on all sides. A poster a few months back had to edit a post because it contained the words 'de plane' and a group of posters seen it as a chance to get offended despite knowing what it really referred to.

In general I think this is a token exercise with the mod stance firmly set and most things I have issue with have been covered but will stick them up anyway.

If you ban cross thread quoting then you will need to ban mentioning of posters in threads they don't generally post in because 90% of the time it amounts to the same thing. Or have some kind of tagging system so posters are notified if they are mentioned.

There should be a standard way of dealing with infractions/reported posts, either they all get deleted or preferably they all get left on thread as a visual deterrent to other posters and to show that the system works. If a reported post is deleted then it casts doubt on the system Imo as the poster who reported it has no idea if it has been dealt with, or if a mod is doing a favour for a poster they get along with (cue this doesn't happen). There is also no way to question the system. If I report a post and it wasn't deemed worthy of a yellow it would be good to know why so as that I don't waste time reporting similar posts in future.

The modding is too inconsistent across the forum. Chelsea/City can have match discussions it their superthreads, one poster has gotten a yellow for the gif rule despite it occurring in every match thread, not to single a mod out but Mars Bar put an in thread warning about player abuse a while back, which people will say is great that she used her initiative but it's not very fair on the poster who gets a yellow for the same thing. I know the fault for inconsistent modding has been shifted back to the posters not reporting posts, but mods have to take the blame. For me they will play both sides of the fence, saying that it's too difficult to ban/infract posters unless they have a conclusive body of proof, yet there are plenty of examples of them doing so based on their own interpretation.

Oranage2

Was there many issues this season?

I thought a lot of match threads were closed premature like the fa cup final one, it seemed to come from a particular set of supporters but I see those supporters had thread after thread in dispute resolution so I think the mods did deal with it.

There is some inconsistency but it's a huge forum with a lot of traffic, but calling someone a twat or whatever is clearly stated in the rules, just don't do it if you don't want a ban.

I think this season went very well, it was quite the enjoyable forum and the mods have done an excellent job.

Lucas Hood

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

A few other things on my mind.

1) Aftertiming bets needs to be clamped down upon, I myself find it irritating and I don't think I am alone. Either throw up a pic or STFU, or better yet, show some cojones and mention it beforehand and there wouldn't be an issue in the first place with asking for a picture. I'd like to think I did my part in helping with that guy in the Liverpool thread a few weeks back, but had I not? Maybe it would be an ongoing thing today.

I'd be of the opinion that all betting posts should be kept to the gambling forum, same as fantasy football.

LuckyLloyd

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

2) Bringing up past posts. What is the purpose of someone else doing this normally? How is this not considered trolling when it's just selective posting on a subject, usually by the one or two individuals as it's their schtick to make posters look bad? Nothing more than being a wind up merchant. If they posted the full context, that's different. I did similar, albeit in my sig. Low and behold I get punished by admin . But sure, it's grand in the soccer forum. Riiiight.

Just on this point, I think accountability on discussion forums (and in life in general) regarding predictions is extremely important. In my view, once you post things on a public forum you should be forced to own them. If people want to take strong predictive stances in discussion it's good as it leads to robust debate, but it's only fair that such arguments get pulled up along the line if it doesn't pan out the way they thought it would.

If this wasn't allowed, it would benefit trolling and WUMing rather than mitigate against it. If people were allowed to fire their heavy artillery with every counter intuitive negative prediction on rival clubs / disliked players and managers and never have those posts pulled up for reference a season or seasons down the line that would be a very exploitative loophole for those of a particular mindset.

Assessment of predictions and the ability to highlight a lack of consistency in positions is a fairly basic aspect of debate in all walks of life. The suggestion to remove it here should be avoided at all costs imo.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

1 suggestion which I know won't happen but anyway

Get rid of football charter

Have 1 rule

"Dont be a Dick"

If you are you get warning then yellow and so on

Would make mods life much easier too lets be honest.

Spot on. The only issue with that is you would require significant change in the modding team to make it work - probably to an unrealistic extent. Long term mods on this forum are charter based moderators. They would be unable to apply the above suggestion unfortunately.

=========================================

I think it's been an above average year though overall. There was one incident that I know of where the moderation crossed the line of acceptability but we sorted it out without too much hassle in Feedback. Few little changes:

- disable tags if you can, worth asking the question of the development team anyway imo;
- close Match Threads sooner;
- have a mid year feedback thread the first week of January or similar;

People should put things into perspective. As far as 'inside the lines trolling' is concerned, this season has been mild in comparison to some of the giants of that game who were active in year's previous.

Soups123

It's just like on a Football pitch. A bad tackle in front of the ref will get you a card. Then there are a few sly/dirty ones all around the pitch when the ref ain't looking, he might see one or two but not all, he is one man yet everyone blames the ref when the real issue is the players. The problem in this forum lies with the posters not the mods, we are all adults and should behave as such but the onus is on the posters to use the report function rather than biting. I have never ever reported a post so I would see myself as part of the problem not the moderation.

If reporting a post is done and the corrective action isn't taken then it's a moderation issue.

N Sahin I get your point about active mods but you got to be realistic if one steps down the guy/girl coming in will have the same family/work priorities. As for when big games are on do you expect them not to watch the sport they love and moderate the match thread instead ? If that's the case you would need mods with no interest in soccer and that will be a bigger problem.

I definitely agree with your point 2.

And very interested in point 4 that's **** if it is going on and should be addressed.

Turtyturd

Soups123 wrote: »

It's just like on a Football pitch. A bad tackle in front of the ref will get you a card. Then there are a few sly/dirty ones all around the pitch when the ref ain't looking, he might see one or two but not all, he is one man yet everyone blames the ref when the real issue is the players. The problem in this forum lies with the posters not the mods, we are all adults and should behave as such but the onus is on the posters to use the report function rather than biting. I have never ever reported a post so I would see myself as part of the problem not the moderation.

If reporting a post is done and the corrective action isn't taken then it's a moderation issue.

N Sahin I get your point about active mods but you got to be realistic if one steps down the guy/girl coming in will have the same family/work priorities. As for when big games are on do you expect them not to watch the sport they love and moderate the match thread instead ? If that's the case you would need mods with no interest in soccer and that will be a bigger problem.

I definitely agree with your point 2.

And very interested in point 4 that's **** if it is going on and should be addressed.

I think that would be a solution....it's just not practical.

glued

The biggest problem with this forum is the users. There are far too many people on here that spend most of their time looking for something to be offended by or by trying to wind up another set on fans. United/Liverpool threads are a disaster because the usual five or six posters come in and emit years of deep-rooted, subhuman hatred and then leave.

I also hate reading some threads and people quoting 'facts' from tribalfootball, bleacherreport, GiveMeSoccer etc. I don't believe the people quoting those 'articles' are that stupid that they believe they're true yet they're used, often negatively, to try and wind people up.

Also anyone carded for trolling should be named and shamed in a thread stickied at the top of the forum. This would make it easier for new users to identify who they should ignore.

LiamoSail

I'm quoting the below from earlier in the thread before it gets lost. Is it possible a mod could address it, as there's been nothing on it thus far, and I know the feedback thread is open only for a relatively short time

LiamoSail wrote: »

There was an issue with the locking of a thread recently which I found entirely out of order. A thread, which hadn't been violating the charter was locked without so much as a explanation as to why. When a similar thread was started, it was again locked with a mod stating they didn't know why the original was locked, but they were locking this one. My issue is that it's just ignorant locking a thread without explanation, or identifying who locked it, and creates unnecessary animosity

The mod that locked the second thread then did absolutely eff all to ascertain why the original was locked. What are we then expected to do? PM every forum mod to check who locked it and why? Why did the second mod not just question it on the mod forum? Do the mods want 7/8 posters PMing them all asking who locked whatever thread? Seems daft to me, and as with the above, puts the mods in the role of Police rather than posters contributing to the building and bettering of the forum.

The thread in question was the thread on how Celtic and Scottish football in general was fairing without Rangers.

First thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057169359&page=2

Second thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=89481339


I'd like to know why the mod who locked the first thread didn't explain the decision or identify themselves, and why the second mod, after going to the hassle of locking the second thread, didn't follow up on why the first thread was locked. Would seem to be an issue of basic courtesy to me.

By and large however, I believe the mods do a difficult job well, and in any dealing I have had with mods,have always felt they handled situations fairly

Agueroooo

Question: Can a football/team related post outside the soccer forum be punished/carded?

Benimar

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

5) Using tragedies to get one up on a fanbase is disgusting. This should be an automatic ban for a month at least. I don't care if it's Hillsbourough, Munich, Valley Parade, Heysel, Ibrox, etc. There is no justifying it.

From a Liverpool point of view, to think posters who are making victim comments only to feign innocence, if mods can't see through this, they bloody naive to put it bluntly. Especially given their posts in general concerning Liverpool are purely negative.

Liam O wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say there Nuri, just on the victim thing, I think that there is sometimes a bit of overreaction to that in here. I think 90% of the time it isn't used in a loaded sense but it's treated as such a lot of the time when there was no real malice intended. Maybe it's seen differently by others and I've never done it myself but it's getting to the stage where merely saying victim to a Liverpool fan is seen as disgusting and a swipe at Hillsborough. I don't think that's the case.

I would have to side with Nuri on this one. Yes, there are probably a couple of posters who are naive enough to not get the connotations behind 'always the victim' but anyone not living in a cave for the last 25 years must know at this stage the only reason to use that expression is to get a 'reaction'.

If some want to say that they 'didn't know' then the easy way around it is to put the expression 'always the victim' in the charter next to 'Chelski' 'Fat Frank' etc ie: outright ban it.

Same for all tragedies, anyone mocking ANY death should be kicked off the forum. Mocking Hillsborough, Munich, Bradford etc should all be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

In fairness to Liam O, I do think its a certain type of poster who use it, a type very similar to the group most on this thread want dealt with for perceived low level trolling.

As regards leaving up carded posts my suggestion would be as follows:
1. Benimar posts: That Ronaldo is some twat.
2. Benimar gets carded.
3. Mod changes Benimars post to read..'Benimar carded for calling Ronaldo a twat'
4. Anyone quoting the mod post gets an automatic card.

That way everyone knows what happened and it stops the post being quoted.

Beasty

LiamoSail wrote: »

I'm quoting the below from earlier in the thread before it gets lost. Is it possible a mod could address it, as there's been nothing on it thus far, and I know the feedback thread is open only for a relatively short time

The second thread was simply discussing moderation - that's not permitted in the open forums, except in the Help Desk or possibly Feedback forums. The OP was advised to PM the mods if they wished to discuss this further. I have no idea whether anyone PM'd any mods about it at the time

Beasty

Agueroooo wrote: »

Question: Can a football/team related post outside the soccer forum be punished/carded?

Soccer mods cannot take action in connection with posts outside the Soccer forum, although mods of the relevant forum can of course (for example the general Sports forum has a "no Soccer threads" rule and will take action against posters that start such threads. Sports CMods can though if it relates to another forum within the Sports category (which would not extend to Hosted forums for example).

Lucas Hood

Beasty I know you're a CMod but I think we'd all appreciate hearing from the actual mods in question. No offence to you.

PhlegmyMoses

Vinz Mesrine wrote: »

Something needs to be done about the blatant trolling and fishing in certain threads. A lot of users know just how to do it while staying within the rules, they march into a thread, cause an argument and leave again, they go unpunished but if someone reacts they get a card or worse.

We all know who the posters are, it's ridiculous.

By the same token, serial biters are just as bad for the derailment of the thread. Trolls die out when they get no responses or become really obvious and not subtle, which gets them banned.

All the people that constantly feel the need to defend their beloved team and respond to blatant wind-ups with "Well your club does this...." "You're obsessed..." and many other wonderful contributions that are as big a waste of bandwidth as the original wind-up comment. It's always the same posters on either side of the divide, United Liverpool, Celtic Rangers, LOI Non-LOI etc.

I'm not sure if you can even police these people, but a be an adult rule beside the don't be a dick rule wouldn't go amiss.

LiamoSail

Beasty wrote: »

The second thread was simply discussing moderation - that's not permitted in the open forums, except in the Help Desk or possibly Feedback forums. The OP was advised to PM the mods if they wished to discuss this further. I have no idea whether anyone PM'd any mods about it at the time

So we all just PM every single mod? Is that what you really want?

Why did the mod who locked the original thread not, even out of courtesy, leave a mod note so we'd know who to PM, and why it was closed? That would have avoided the second thread ever being started. Why did the second mod not follow anything up?

Not really fair on those who were interested to just lock a thread without reason anonymously IMO

kryogen

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

No warning.



Warning.

Yeah and I actually reported that first one you quoted myself, had a feeling nothing would be done about it of course, again showing the poor consistency

kryogen

rarnes1 wrote: »

Does organised reporting actually go on? Seriously? Sounds like conspiracy stuff to me. I'd be shocked if it happens.

Mods, can you answer this as bombs being left like that in the feedback thread need to be cleared up asap.

I am sure it does, for the simple fact that I have been pm'd in the past encouraging me to report a post to get more attention for it, the user in question was trying to get as many others as he could to report a particular post

You would also hear about groups on Twitter who make plans for things to do on boards and certain users to target

Agueroooo

kryogen wrote: »

I am sure it does, for the simple fact that I have been pm'd in the past encouraging me to report a post to get more attention for it, the user in question was trying to get as many others as he could to report a particular post

You would also hear about groups on Twitter who make plans for things to do on boards and certain users to target

:eek: really?

LuckyLloyd

kryogen wrote: »

I am sure it does, for the simple fact that I have been pm'd in the past encouraging me to report a post to get more attention for it, the user in question was trying to get as many others as he could to report a particular post

You would also hear about groups on Twitter who make plans for things to do on boards and certain users to target

Jaysus that's quite sad really. I'll be sticking to my policy of not reporting posts on the soccer forum anyway.

Agueroooo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Jaysus that's quite sad really. I'll be sticking to my policy of not reporting posts on the soccer forum anyway.

that's kinda what I do.

but listening to Beasty it seems it might be the crux of the problem, and I find myself thinking that there is no point in giving out about things slipping if I am not reporting them.

Lovely Bloke

kryogen wrote: »

You would also hear about groups on Twitter who make plans for things to do on boards and certain users to target

lol, what?

what kind of sad twats are they?

Turtyturd

Agueroooo wrote: »

that's kinda what I do.

but listening to Beasty it seems it might be the crux of the problem, and I find myself thinking that there is no point in giving out about things slipping if I am not reporting them.

There is plenty of point in giving out about it. It's a flawed system which expects posters to use it properly while it treats them unfairly.

Will I Amnt

rarnes1 wrote: »

Does organised reporting actually go on? Seriously? Sounds like conspiracy stuff to me. I'd be shocked if it happens.

Mods, can you answer this as bombs being left like that in the feedback thread need to be cleared up asap.

I would have said the same until I was made aware of a few incidents.

kryogen

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Jaysus that's quite sad really. I'll be sticking to my policy of not reporting posts on the soccer forum anyway.

I used to report nothing, to very few posts. Now I am trying to make an active effort to report many more posts, if it helps improve the overall consistency of moderation, or just serve to highlight the inconsistency then fair enough. I find it tough enough though at times, not exactly a whole lot that really bothers me on a forum. Born out of frustration as much as anything else really.

I agree though, it is quite sad, particularly the Twitter one. I have been pm'd twice with attempts to get me to report a poster or post, I am sure it happens now and then for that reason alone.

Agueroooo

name and shame I say.

how the hell are you supposed to mod effectively when that crap is going on

glued

Agueroooo wrote: »

name and shame I say.

how the hell are you supposed to mod effectively when that crap is going on

I'd be able to easily name and shame at least 10 Liverpool and United supporters that do this.

I'm not going to bother...

Agueroooo

glued wrote: »

I'd be able to easily name and shame at least 10 Liverpool and United supporters that do this.

I'm not going to bother...

I would have thought it was a certain clan mentality?

like one group asking to get a certain poster from a different team reported/banned?

you saying it is sometimes both set of supporters joined in getting a certain poster reported? :eek:

Alfred Borden

Absolutely pathetic if thats whats going on

kryogen

glued wrote: »

I'd be able to easily name and shame at least 10 Liverpool and United supporters that do this.

I'm not going to bother...

Sorry, this confuses me, just going by your join date. How could you be able to do that?

Will I Amnt

Agueroooo wrote: »

name and shame I say.

how the hell are you supposed to mod effectively when that crap is going on

As far as I'm aware there was a group of posters that got together to ask a mod/mods to stop a particular poster who hadn't got access to the forum from thanking posts in the forum.

I'm taking somebody's word on that but that would be ringing alarm bells for me if true. That kind of behind the scenes organisation is not good.

Lucas Hood

kryogen wrote: »

Sorry, this confuses me, just going by your join date. How could you be able to do that?

Could have re-registered under a different name. I did.