Amazing public reaction experiment - you have to watch this

Barely There

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ok so your girlfriend smacked you in the face when you did not deserve it right? What did the gardai and court say about this scenario? Or do you see assault within a relationship as not worthy of reporting?

Didn't feel the need to either slap her back or report it tbh.

Pawwed Rig

Barely There wrote: »

Didn't feel the need to either slap her back or report it tbh.

So violence within a relationship is ok by you then? If your sister was smacked by her husband would you encourage the same course of action? Try and consider the double standard you are suggesting here.

Gonna bow out here as not fair to mod and contribute at the same time

Barely There

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So violence within a relationship is ok by you then

Seriously, WTF?

Barely There

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If your sister was smacked by her husband would you encourage the same course of action

TBH responding to this would be dragging the thread off topic, given we're not discussing the rights and wrongs of reporting domestic violence to the Guards.

The court discussion came up in the context of defending a returned slap and whether it was justified.

Maguined

Barely There wrote: »

TBH responding to this would be dragging the thread off topic, given we're not discussing the rights and wrongs of reporting domestic violence to the Guards.

The court discussion came up in the context of defending a returned slap and whether it was justified.

Here is a case in Australia where a man got into a fight over a queue in a take away. He was acquitted because it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was simply defending himself. This resulted in the death of the man but it is quite clear that in the eyes of the law you are allowed defend yourself from violence by violent means.


http://www.thejournal.ie/sydney-man-acquitted-of-fatal-assault-on-irish-backpacker-368976-Feb2012/

Barely There

Maguined wrote: »

Here is a case in Australia where a man got into a fight over a queue in a take away. He was acquitted because it could not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was simply defending himself. This resulted in the death of the man but it is quite clear that in the eyes of the law you are allowed defend yourself from violence by violent means.


http://www.thejournal.ie/sydney-man-acquitted-of-fatal-assault-on-irish-backpacker-368976-Feb2012/

It's a case by case basis.

There is no hard and fast rules to the appropriate response.

I still stand by my opinion that in the original video which sparked this debate, that the guys reaction to being slapped was inappropriate.

Morpork

Remember this one?
I remember from the comments, there were many girls saying the guy was right to hit her back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksmnk2Eic80

Azwaldo55

It is not only just female domestic violence that is overlooked but female sexual violence and pedophilia.
In recent years there have been high profile expos of pretty young female teachers who have been having sex with teenage students both male and female under their charge. Teenage girls as baby sitters can also be sexual abusers of prepubescent children both male and female and of course middle aged and elderly women who are relatives or also in various positions of authority as coaches, nurses, doctors, caregivers etc are also sexual abusers too. Society refuses to believe that women and young girls can be abusive and violent and sexual predators and therefore refuse to take the issue seriously.

NoCrackHaving

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).

A woman could be beaten senseless by a man but I guarantee you that 95% of the public would just stand by and do nothing. As harsh as it sounds people generally won't be themselves in harms way for strangers of either gender.

Hence the video is pointless.

strobe

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).

A woman could be beaten senseless by a man but I guarantee you that 95% of the public would just stand by and do nothing. As harsh as it sounds people generally won't be themselves in harms way for strangers of either gender.

Hence the video is pointless.

The point of the video was the differing reactions. Not just whether people intervened or not but that in the female attacking the male video people not only didn't intervene, they scoffed and laughed. In the male on female version the opposite reaction was seen, concern and empathising with the victim. So the video wasn't pointless, it had a clear point (it just went over your head).

(Whether it made that point with selective editing or not aside).

walshb

The intervention or lack of is obvious. It's a little bit more natural to assume that a man will have a greater ability and capacity to defend himself against a woman than the other way around.

walshb

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).
s.

Good point. And usually if someone does intervene that person gets attacked by both the man and the woman.

Azwaldo55

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Very few people of either gender will intervene in a fight between two strangers (regardless of the gender of the strangers).

A woman could be beaten senseless by a man but I guarantee you that 95% of the public would just stand by and do nothing. As harsh as it sounds people generally won't be themselves in harms way for strangers of either gender.

Hence the video is pointless.

The classic bystander effect is well known and studied in psychology.
In the classic experiment an actor pretends to have a heart attack and slumps lifeless in the street and passerby walk past completely ignoring him.
If someone does go to his aid it is usually a local or someone who passes that spot daily during the commute to work.
If people are tourists or strangers to the area they will rarely help.
Most people are self-conscious and assume that someone will help.
Among people who are complete strangers to the area only people with extraordinary self-confidence will do anything.
Most people will actually fail to do so much as ring the police.
They do not want to get involved or else they are waiting for instructions from authorities they assume have the situation in hand.
When one person goes to the aid suddenly passive bystanders will become active responders.

In warfare it is well known that that others soldiers will follow natural leaders. When bullets and bombs are flying most will cower in fear or else fire their weapon ineffectively due to a natural aversion to kill other human beings. However if the sergeant or corporal leading the men leads by example and shows fearlessness his men will also be inspired and fight better.

A similar phenomenon happens in crowded places when it takes a long time for danger to dawn on people.
Many of the people who died in the Hillsborough disaster died because people assumed there was no danger and denied what their sense were telling them.
Recently a ferry sank off the coast of South Korea and few of the hundreds of victims disobeyed the instruction of crew to stay in their berths and instead went on deck to leap into the sea or a boat to save their lives.
Had someone take initiative many more would undoubtedly have been saved.

So in conclusion people who stand around gawking or laughing cannot help themselves.
The majority of us are hardwired to timidly obey orders and to wait for permission even when our instincts should be screaming at us to act.

iptba

Here's a set up with a woman victim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMSb5fS5rQM

At one stage, there are 17 people who don't step in, but quite a few do also.

If I was in the US, with guns, I'd be less inclined to step in (one man mentions wondering whether he has a gun as a reason he doesn't step in).

iptba

Here's one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_yXdkvwFBY

with teenagers, with boyfriend being aggressive.

It's unclear how many people pass by, but a few step in.

With this one and/or last one (I wasn't taking note), a few people said "that's not how you treat a woman/similar", which leaves the possibility they might have less of a problem with a male being abused (although one can't be sure).

Saw this on Reddit and you can watch the video here - basically what happens is that this guy is flying a drone on a beach, taking various photos. This woman takes umbrage to it, comes over and gets in his face - calls the cops and then, once the call is done, proceeds to assault him - clawing him with her nails and tearing his shirt. When the cops eventually arrive, she claims that he assaulted her - luckily enough, he managed to record the entire thing and she got arrested instead for various reasons.

It got me thinking of that video recently called Violence is Violence, in which two different scenarios are played out - a guy assaults a woman in public and a woman assaults a guy in public. The outcomes are completely different - in the former, bystanders get involved and put the guy in his place. In the latter, people stand by and snicker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5vRGtKPY0

You can be guaranteed that in the livleak video - if the guy assaulted the girl in that manner - not only would others get involved, but he would receive a much heavier sentence than the girl probably did.

As a guy, it makes me worried that I essentially can do nothing if a woman assaults me - I cannot fight back, realistically, and I cannot defend myself either.

mrkiscool2

Bravo to whomever dragged this topic off topic from focusing on the fact that as a man if a woman attacks you no-one will help you even if they see it happening with their own two eyes.

The video sends a pretty clear message that women are seen as victims and never as perpetrators with the opposite being true for men. I was making this exact same point on the "Are you a feminist" thread. There is widespread sexism towards men.

For example, if a women slaps a man or pinches his arse in a nightclub, everyone laughs and even if you are uncomfortable about it you have to laugh it off to. Because if you tell a bouncer he won't do anything. Now imagine if a man slapped a woman or pinched her arse. There would be uproar and the bouncer would be straight in to boot you out.

Same with the Gardai, report that you are being domestically abused as a man (even if you have proof!) and you'll be laughed at. However, all a women has to say is "he abused me" and it's off to the cell with you and a ton of questions even without the slightest bit of proof. (Just in case anyone wants to disagree with the Gardai statement, I went with a mate who I had seen being abused by his at the time GF to report it and we were both laughed at and told to "man up")

It's an absolute disgrace. And yet women claim they have a ton more problems in Ireland today. I'm not saying that they don't face problems but men face a lot more issues that need to be looked at by our society as a whole and domestic abuse is one of the first.

ancapailldorcha

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

It's an absolute disgrace. And yet women claim they have a ton more problems in Ireland today. I'm not saying that they don't face problems but men face a lot more issues that need to be looked at by our society as a whole and domestic abuse is one of the first.

Both genders have problems and, especially in county such as Ireland where knowing the right people is more important than demonstrating proficiency these problems will be around for a while yet. Men have issues with being taken seriously regarding domestic abuse as has been demonstrated and paternity. Women have difficulty in advancing their careers due to sexism (I'm not a woman so I'm not terribly well informed on the other issues women face).

This nonsense of "who's got it worse" needs to end as it solves nothing and detracts from actually solving some of these problems.

iptba

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Women have difficulty in advancing their careers due to sexism (I'm not a woman so I'm not terribly well informed on the other issues women face).

Probably some women do, but I think sometimes it can be an advantage as the company or State body/department wants to increase the number of women higher up (and hence being a man is a disadvantage in that situation)

ETA: or even at entry level in some jobs where there are more males.

ancapailldorcha

iptba wrote: »

Probably some women do, but I think sometimes it can be an advantage as the company or State body/department wants to increase the number of women higher up (and hence being a man is a disadvantage in that situation).

I'm all in favor of removing obstacles for women to advance, especially in areas where they are under-represented such as politics and IT. Unfortunately, some people take this as proof that we need gender quotas which can lead to discrimination. It's something that'll take a lot of time but people want quick fixes so I'm not sure what's going to be done next.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://www.dailydot.com/technology/woman-attacks-man-using-drone-public-beach/

not sure if it's the right thread but the sexism thread is talking about those boys boko haram killed so this seemed like... smaller potatoes, plus it's to do with a woman assaulting a boy in public

23 year old woman assaults 16 year old boy, pins him to the ground, unzips his jeans, sticks her fingers into his mouth. she told the police he assaulted her when they arrived, he is so unbelievably lucky he had the foresight to record video or he'd be utterly ****ed.

as it stands, she was charged but according to several comments on reddit she's only going to see 3-400 dollars in fines, doesn't even have to turn up in court.

#notallquadracopters


--edit

wudyaluk, already posted above

mrkiscool2

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Both genders have problems and, especially in county such as Ireland where knowing the right people is more important than demonstrating proficiency these problems will be around for a while yet.

How is this anything to do with domestic violence or sexism?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Men have issues with being taken seriously regarding domestic abuse as has been demonstrated and paternity. Women have difficulty in advancing their careers due to sexism (I'm not a woman so I'm not terribly well informed on the other issues women face).

Wut? I'll admit there are some pretty clear things blocking women advancing (I wouldn't say sexism is the main one, it's usually the fact they have to take at least 6 months out when having a kid-I don't agree that they should be penalised for that). But if a woman honestly believes she was overly looked for a job or promotion based on genders she can sue the company. Companies don't want to risk the bad name and financial loss. If a woman is the most qualified for the job she normally gets it!

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This nonsense of "who's got it worse" needs to end as it solves nothing and detracts from actually solving some of these problems.

I never claimed either sex has it worse. I just claimed men have a lot more issues which need to be tackled i.e. talked about full stop. We are having multiple discussions about gender equality yet men are completely forgotten in a few of them. That's not on.

ancapailldorcha

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

It's an absolute disgrace. And yet women claim they have a ton more problems in Ireland today. I'm not saying that they don't face problems but men face a lot more issues that need to be looked at by our society as a whole and domestic abuse is one of the first.

I equated this with saying that men have it worse. The vast majority of women who are unsuccessful in interview won't sue as it's very time consuming, costly and they'd need proof that they were discriminated against in order for their claim to be heard.

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

If a woman is the most qualified for the job she normally gets it!

That's what I'd expect. I'd hire her in that scenario as well.

Fukuyama

If I seen a woman serious assaulting a man (like kicking him on the ground) or legitimately 'winning' the fight I'd probably consider stepping in. But if I seen a chap getting a few slaps when he's taller, stronger and bigger than her I'd just think "you should just walk away" and leave it up to him.

I think the reason most people don't get involved in these scenarios isn't actually down to sexism but because they see a Jack Russel nipping at an Alsatians hind leg.

If a small skinny guy displaying terrified body language was taking **** off some 6 foot woman I think more people would intervene. They should do a video like that.

Standman

Deleted User wrote: »

You can be guaranteed that in the livleak video - if the guy assaulted the girl in that manner - not only would others get involved, but he would receive a much heavier sentence than the girl probably did.

As a guy, it makes me worried that I essentially can do nothing if a woman assaults me - I cannot fight back, realistically, and I cannot defend myself either.

I read a quote from that guy saying that the police were aggressive with him at first as they believed the woman's story, but once he showed them the video they rightly changed their tune.

Frightening to think that as a man you are at the mercy of any nutcase woman who feels like assaulting you, with no recourse other than to hopefully have a camera turned on while it's happening in order to prove your innocence.

Maguined

Dean0088 wrote: »

If I seen a woman serious assaulting a man (like kicking him on the ground) or legitimately 'winning' the fight I'd probably consider stepping in. But if I seen a chap getting a few slaps when he's taller, stronger and bigger than her I'd just think "you should just walk away" and leave it up to him.

I think the reason most people don't get involved in these scenarios isn't actually down to sexism but because they see a Jack Russel nipping at an Alsatians hind leg.

If a small skinny guy displaying terrified body language was taking **** off some 6 foot woman I think more people would intervene. They should do a video like that.

If you saw a small skinny guy throwing a few flaps into his taller, stronger and bigger girlfriend would you also just walk away as it's up to her as she is the physically superior of the two?