Accessibility on Public Transport

foggy_lad

We all know that Dublin Buses are all accessible now for at least one wheelchair or buggy and also many seats have a little more legroom and have more grab rails to help the elderly or disabled but how do other companies and forms of transport fare?

Afaik all Bus Eireann city/town buses are wheelchair accessible with a ramp and dedicated space much like the Dublin bus fleet. But often these services are operated by commuter or expressway coaches which are not as accessible. Many other town/city based services I have seen operated by private companies are using accessible buses.

Bus Eireann commuter and Expressway services use coaches with a lift and removable seats so all that is needed is a call the day before travel(not ideal but better than nothing) or notice of a wheelchair user moving to an area so all services can be prepared to take a wheelchair. All bus stations are wheelchair accessible.

Train travel is quite good with wheelchair spaces and accessible toilets on all services and most stations are accessible to one or more platforms but as far as station accessibility goes is there more that can be done?

Often Lifts are out of order in many stations and there is no information updated either weekly or daily which is available to passengers. One of the main responsibilities when dealing with accessibility is giving the passenger a choice and they must be given the proper information to make a decision for their own benefit and convenience. There is no point having a notice in Connolly or Skerries that the lift there is locked up if a disabled person would have been able to make alternative arrangements if this information was readily available beforehand! Offering taxis from alternative stations is not acceptable or cost effective!

How hard is it to make a list of stations with no available wheelchair ramps or lifts not working and update this daily or even twice daily? Are unmanned stations not checked at least twice a day?

It is not just those in Wheelchairs who need to use lifts when crossing the railway. many of those with free travel especially the elderly are unable to negotiate steps due to mobility impairment. One prime example is the barrow crossing in Carlow station which is still used quite often for elderly passengers so they don't have to risk slipping or falling on the slippery worn down steps of the footbridge.

As seen from recent incidents at Howth Junction & Donaghmede station which is served by Dart and Commuter services the wheelchair ramps are removed and locked away when the station is closed leading to scenes like this. Afaik this is the case in most stations not just those in Dublin. Also staff in these situations usually go above and beyond to sort out a mess not of their making.

Should these ramps be carried on all services or would that pose other issues over working practices or safety for staff and other passengers? Maybe it is time to stop pandering to the disabled as it is costing Irish Rail too much?

Are there other things that can be done on buses and trains to make life a little easier for those with a disability or impairment?

Edit

To include as many forms of transport as possible does anyone have experiences of air travel and boat/ferry travel for Disabled people?

It is well known that airlines do not want the responsibility of providing wheelchairs to bring disabled passengers to the departure gates or onto the runway for boarding and in the past have charged exorbitant amounts for the privilage, how do people fare with the ferry operators from Dublin and Rosslare?

Hilly Bill

There are ramps on all commuter and intercity trains. Ramps are on all platforms unless vandalised and secured in most cases in their holders.

The clip is misleading. The norm is that anyone requesting assistance asks at the station and then they get help on and off their chosen train. If station is unmanned the driver assists. What happens sometimes is that some try and get off before the arranged assistance arrives at the carriage or other passengers try and help them off before the help arrives.
Sometimes they get help by other passengers onto a train without telling anyone as to what station they are getting off or decide to get off at a different station than what they original said.
The clip doesnt tell the full story nor does it show as to what carriage the passenger is on meaning that it could have been the rear coach and they tried to get off themselves before the driver arrived.
Arrangements are sometimes made for a train to pull into the opposite platform when possible to prevent someone having to use the footbridge.

punisher5112

Whats the big deal he has to get out of the chair to go toilet or get into bed or a car ad so on so don't really see the big problem.

There were plenty there willing to help and good to see we as people do help others.

Sure there is a well known guy uses buses and trains who does be loaded with drink and ends up running into other passengers and also gives staff dogs abuse so just cause there in a chair doesn't always mean they do the right thing.

Very possible as said above he could have decided wanted off at a different stop or never mentioned which one or as can happen from time to time the message wasn't passed on or was forgotten about.

Does anyone ever have anything nice to say about public transport or maybe even appreciate the staff as the job is difficult enough without the constant nagging.

foggy_lad

Without getting bogged down in the clip it shows the Dart driver and several passengers helping the man off the dart. The driver had previously went looking on all the platforms for a ramp and there was none there, they were all locked away in the station. The driver did offer to bring the passenger on to the next station where he could have got a taxi back or return with a member of staff and a ramp on the next dart but the passenger declined this offer as it was too long or inconvenient.

The driver did everything he could for the man but the issue is the company let this man and other disabled/impaired people down by allowing a situation where wheelchair access is locked away after staff leave some stations.

In some countries disabled passengers must make their own arrangements for getting on or off trains at unmanned stations, should Irish Rail and other puclic transport operators here in the Republic of Ireland adopt this approach?

Hilly Bill

It would have been locked away for a reason, possibly that it keeps getting pulled from its holder by vandals and thrown away.

Any link as to where you get the info about this incident so that i can have a look?

flyingsnail

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It would have been locked away for a reason, possibly that it keeps getting pulled from its holder by vandals and thrown away.

from IR on twitter,

Was unavailable due to theft/vandalism when Stn unmanned

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It would have been locked away for a reason, possibly that it keeps getting pulled from its holder by vandals and thrown away.

Any link as to where you get the info about this incident so that i can have a look?

http://www.thejournal.ie/man-in-wheelchair-carried-off-train-as-no-ramp-available-at-donaghmede-station-1485628-May2014/

MGWR

Try taking someone in a wheelchair on and off a train like this, whose design is a compromise for operation at both high and low platforms. Before the 1990s, there were no wheelchair ramps with "mini-high" platforms at the low-platform stations such as shown in this photograph.

Hilly Bill

To be fair, he had 2 safer options which wasnt ideal but was refused. His chair would have fitted into a wheelchair taxi , it was only a motorised chair not a scooter which is far bigger . Swapping trains in Bayside would have been handy enough seeing that its so close and that darts usually pass each other there.

If he got on in Lansdowne after the match and told them that he was going to Howth junction then Lansdowne would have rang ahead. If they got no answer then they would have rang Control and they would have contacted the driver and informed him that Howth Jct was unmanned . Every station should have been made aware ( if they hadnt ) of the lack of a ramp in Howth Jct when its unmanned and informed the passenger before he boarded the train.
Whats not being said is both sides of what happened as to what station he got on and what station did he say he was getting off and what communication was done between the stations.

Hilly Bill

MGWR wrote: »

Try taking someone in a wheelchair on and off a train like this, whose design is a compromise for operation at both high and low platforms. Before the 1990s, there were no wheelchair ramps with "mini-high" platforms at the low-platform stations such as shown in this photograph.

Had to get off a train with a gap like that to the platform a couple of years back in Wales. They had to get a small wooden set of steps and that wasnt high enough

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

To be fair, he had 2 safer options which wasnt ideal but was refused. His chair would have fitted into a wheelchair taxi , it was only a motorised chair not a scooter which is far bigger . Swapping trains in Bayside would have been handy enough seeing that its so close and that darts usually pass each other there.

If he got on in Lansdowne after the match and told them that he was going to Howth junction then Lansdowne would have rang ahead. If they got no answer then they would have rang Control and they would have contacted the driver and informed him that Howth Jct was unmanned . Every station should have been made aware ( if they hadnt ) of the lack of a ramp in Howth Jct when its unmanned and informed the passenger before he boarded the train.
Whats not being said is both sides of what happened as to what station he got on and what station did he say he was getting off and what communication was done between the stations.

at that time of the evening he could easily have been delayed by an hour or more.

afaik he got on at Landsdown Rd and told them where he was getting off and the driver went looking for a ramp but there was none there. What should have happened or what might have happened if A+b-XYZ happened is irrelevant at this stage, Ramps should be available either on all trains or at all stations whether manned or not.

Also having so many lifts out of order is not really on when you think that so many stations don't have lifts and also considering that some have been out of service for months.

This list does not show stations which have no ramp available to customers but we can only assume that ramps are locked away when stations are unmanned so there are quite a lot of stations which are inaccessible to wheelchair users.

Adamstown lift to platform one out of service due to part that needs replacing.
Dublin Pearse both lifts at trinity underpass currently out of service.
Dun Laoghaire north-bound lift currently out of service
Howth Junction & Donaghmede lift is currently out of service.
Killiney both lifts are currently out of service.
Portmarnock lifts are currently out of service.
Raheny lift is currently out of service due to severe flooding.
Shankill southbound lift is currently out of service.
Tullamore lift is currently out of service.

Hilly Bill

What time was it?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What time was it?

After the football match which the man had gone to watch. What time was the match over at?

The time is not really relevant because a person in a wheelchair is usually in it all day not just when stations are manned.

podcast of Liveline
http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!type=radio&rii=9%3A20585626%3A53%3A26%2D05%2D2014%3A

A few videos showing Ireland are not too far behind for accessibility on trains

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZnXcd6-3UU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRPsaxg93AQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43RagxfjchM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6p5VmT4Mc8

Jamie2k9

Foggy Just to clear something up the website station list is updated regulatory with information about lifts being of service.

Bus Eireann commuter and Expressway services use coaches with a lift and removable seats so all that is needed is a call the day before travel(not ideal but better than nothing) or notice of a wheelchair user moving to an area so all services can be prepared to take a wheelchair. All bus stations are wheelchair accessible.

Irish rail have the same policy of calling the day before travel.....