BQ or Bust!

ariana`

Murph_D wrote: »

I don't mind you asking me at all, although I'm not sure how universal the ratio between 'LT' (however defined) and MP actually is.

For the 'traditional' definition of LT - one hour race pace, usually measured (as I understand it) at 4 mmol/L (and all good testers will warn you of the limitation of this - I was given a number of 174 bpm.

Ideal MP (for me, taking my particular lactate profile into account) right now is the pace associated with 160-165 bpm.

I reckon my max is about 196, resting HR about 56, conservatively. So 165 amounts to 84% of Max (or 78% of HR reserve, if you use that measure).

Expressed (because you asked) as a percentage of LT as defined above it's about 95%.

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. As you guessed, I was wondering if there is a universal ratio between LT and MP. I got an LTHR test done but seem to doubt myself when i try to use the information for anything other than a straight forward LT workout.

Murph_D

ariana` wrote: »

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. As you guessed, I was wondering if there is a universal ratio between LT and MP. I got an LTHR test done but seem to doubt myself when i try to use the information for anything other than a straight forward LT workout.

Were you given a recommended MP as part of the results? How does it stack up with my numbers?

ariana`

Murph_D wrote: »

Were you given a recommended MP as part of the results? How does it stack up with my numbers?

No i wasn't given an MP, I'm not doing a marathon this year so i suppose it's not directly relevant at the moment but i'm interested and continually trying to stock pile information in this respect.

I was given 4 training zones for different types of runs (easy/LT/tempo/intervals). But while most people report having to slow their runs when training by HR, i found i had to work quite a bit harder to hit the zones. My LT pace/HR loosely correlate but the other runs demanded paces significantly faster than the various pace calculators give me to get me to the required HR zone.

Murph_D

Mon 9 Sep

Rest.

It was suggested to me that it might be a better idea to switch to last 7 weeks of a 12-week P&D schedule rather than Hanson. Potentially more ‘bang for the buck’. A change is as good as a rest, so I think that’s what I’ll be doing. Not abandoning Hanson - I think it’s a great plan and I look forward to doing it properly, possibly next year.

Tue 10 Sep

8.1k GA @ 5:40 (9:04)

A tour of Dublin 2, 4 and 6. Very salubrious. At one point I passed an ex-boyfriend of my daughter’s cycling past on his bike. Waved at him, then seconds later the next bike has another acquaintance, who also gets a wave. And all within yards of the Dublin Marathon finish line. Both of these chaps live in D7 and know each other, although I don’t think they were out together. Bizarre.

Wed 11 Sep

14k with 6.4 @ IAT

This went well on an undulating route up and down the Malahide Road. As advised, trying to stay in the individual anaerobic threshold (IAT) range, equating to 155-160 HR effort, and 4:57-5:16 pace. Avg was 159 for 5:08/k, so I’ll call it a success.

WTD: 22k (14m)
MTD: 133 (83)
YTD: 1,994 (1,239)

Murph_D

Thu 12 Sep

MLR 19k @ 150 (68% HRR)

Kept this at the low end of P&D’s LR range, as I wanted to run some more at the Individual Anaerobic Threshold (IAT) specified following recent LT test - as this is supposed to represent ideal pace for building endurance during ‘slow’ LRs. This meant keeping an eye on the HR on a fairly uphill route up to Swords from Santry (where I’d parked the car after managing to get it through its NCT at the second attempt). It was late, and I was hungry, but luckily the Spar was still open when I got back to the car park. Can’t say I enjoyed this one - just one of the ones you’re happy to tick off. GPS dropped out coming back past the airport - wonder if they have some sort of drone-foiling cloaking technology deployed?

Fri 13 Sep

Rest. Two days off - I love this plan!

Sat 14 Sep

8k recovery (62% HRR) on the seafront. And then on to Croke Park - my brother hadn’t foreseen a replay when he booked his holiday plans: his loss, my gain! :pac: An emotional day. Formidable achievement. Screw the begrudgers!

Sun 15 Sep

LR 24.7k inc. 19.3 (12m) @ M effort (avg 161 bpm 76% HRR)

To the Phoenix Park. Tried to be disciplined and keep HR between 160-165, hoping it would pan out around 5 mins/k. Managed 5:05 in the end. Enjoyable run, taking in the Park and Castleknock sections of the Dublin Marathon route (slight hiccup when I turned down White’s Road instead of Tower Road, exposing my lack of familiarity with the ‘knock).

WTD: 74 (46m)
MTD: 185 (115)
YTD: 2,045 (1,271)

I feel that I am at last building a bit of momentum on this truncated marathon prep. The HR emphasis is a bit more familiar after the 80/20 5k stuff earlier in the year. Hopefully it will pay off - the goal remains 3:30. Not quite there at the moment, I feel, but I think that should change over the coming weeks.

Murph_D

Some rejigging this week as I intend to run the Dublin Half at the weekend. Won’t be racing it - like all the Race Series so far this year, it will be a workout, probably including some LT pace.

Mon 16 Sep

7.8k recovery @ 6:08 (53% HRR)

A few slow miles on the seafront. Bumped into Ferris and slowed him down.

Tue 17 Sep

MLR 19.3k @ 5:45 (67% HRR)

A late afternoon trot out along the South Dublin Bay from work. Glorious evening. Again keeping an eye on HR, didn’t want to go much over 155 for this run. Pleased to be right in the middle of the recommended pace range at the very low end of the HRR that P&D suggests for LRs (65-78%). Early to say, but this suggests I might be able to push the pace up a little over coming weeks. A pleasant 12 miles, passing a couple of former clubmates in the Sandymount vicinity. Attempted a high 5 with one but missed!

52k (32m) over the past three days so feeling a little tired. Half decent night’s sleep for a change.

Wed 18 Sep

Rest.

WTD: 27k (17m)
MTD: 212 (132)
YTD: 2,072 (1,288)

Murph_D

Thu 19 Sep

10k easy @ 147 (66% HRR)

Plan had LT run but not going to do that with HM ‘workout’ coming up at weekend. Just some easy late afternoon miles around town.

Fri 20 Sep

Rest.

Sat 21 Sep

32.6k inc Dublin HM @ MP

20 miler on the schedule this weekend. As I had entered the HM I decided to do it at MP and pad it out to 20 miles with an extended warmup. Really enjoyed running this - so much more pleasant when not racing; I can understand why so many runners never push themselves beyond the comfort zone.

Ran the course with FBOT as it’s his DCM pacing pace. Glad of the company. Felt good for most of the race, although the section back down Chesterfield into the wind was tough going at times, more mentally than physically. Great to meet ariana (for the first time) and browneyes (again) afterwards. mister paul travelled with us - good to have at least one PB in the group - well done, P.

Glad to have survived first 20-miler since Jan 2017 (races excepted).

Sun 22 Sep

AM: 5k recovery around the Griffith Ave vicinity. Legs a little creaky after yesterday’s exploits.

PM: Griffith Ave Mile (pacing 7 mins)

laura_ac3 had asked me to pace her in this race. She’s come close to breaking 7 mins a few times and targeted this one for another attempt. I was happy to oblige, although a little wary of the timing the day after the HM. But the little shakeout in the morning seemed to help and by the time I was jogging up to the fabulous race HQ at All Hallows I felt better. Waved at beep beep on Grace Park Road, before hooking up up with L for a couple of miles warmup with some dynamic stretches and strides. Bumped into racheljev just before the off and she decided to tag along. Plenty of room! We got a decent enough starting position by pushing up a little through the pen.

The wave starts were very efficient - wheelchair athletes, then sub 5:30 runners, then the rest of us. Took off a little fast, I think, putting extra pressure on L and R but we settled into a good rhythm fairly quickly and I just did my best to keep it even and talk ‘the girls’ (;)) through the course. It’s a fast route, net downhill with much of that in the second half when the going is getting tough. L didn’t utter a word, saving all the energy for the race, and nailed a 6:48 PB, with R coming in a few seconds behind. The concentration was impressive, and the shouts from L's strategically positioned support crew and a good few clubmates and local onlookers definitely helped her when it was time to dig deep. Very enjoyable 7 mins (for me)! 

The post-race setup was very impressive - lots of tea, coffee, cake, sweets, sausage rolls, even burgers (didn’t bother with the queue, but the word was they were excellent). Good to see plenty of clubmates supporting this race, although the word didn’t seem to get around to many other clubs. Athletics Ireland and DCU and the host club Marino AC seem quite committed to the event so hopefully it will be back.

WTD: 81 (50m)
MTD: 266 (165)
YTD: 2,126 (1,321)

laura_ac3

Nice report D

Thanks again, super pacing. Yes, I was a very anti social pacee aside from that grunt of discomfort on the third (?) segment!

Murph_D

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Nice report D

Thanks again, super pacing. Yes, I was a very anti social pacee aside from that grunt of discomfort on the third (?) segment!

Don’t worry, if you’d said anything you would have been instructed to save the chat for later!

Murph_D

Just trying to stay out of trouble and continue the momentum this week.

Mon 23 Sep

Rest.

Tue 24 Sep

Strength: 3m, 2m (800m j/r) (81% HRR?)

It was a glorious afternoon and the Trinity Track was empty after the lunchtime TT Racers session so I availed. (I say empty, but lots of students sunning themselves in the vicinity, some encroaching on the track, but plenty of room for us all.) Avoiding VO2max stuff so borrowed a session from Hanson, although I adjusted from 2x3m as still a bit jaded after the weekend’s efforts. Started out thinking 2 x 2 miles but felt pretty good so stretched first rep to 3m. Might have done the same with rep 2 but had to get back to work!

Splits:
23:24 (7:48/m)
15:25 (7:43/m)

Hamstring niggly but behaved itself. Really should be doing more of the prescribed stretches and strength exercises.

Wed 25 Sep

MLR 18.1k @ 6:02 (59% HRR)

Nighttime jaunt up the Malahide Road to Kinsealy and back. No sign of any Haugheys. Soaked to the skin but felt good. Legs a little tired, questioned the wisdom of the route a couple of times, but survived. A good one to have done.

Thu 26 Sep

Rest.

Fri 27 Sep

Easy 6.5k @ 5:47 (66% HRR)

A few lunchtime laps of Stephen’s Green. Place was rammed!

Sat 28 Sep

6.8k inc Kilkenny parkrun @ T (22:29) (79% HRR)

The P&D plan allows a 5-10m race this weekend. That was never going to happen with an overnight in Kilkenny with the family. A parkrun was an option, but after a few pints the night before and the usual fitful hotel sleep, I wasn’t going to push it. I thought a tempo-ish effort would be an achievement, maybe getting a bit racier in lap three if the opportunity presented itself.

This is a lovely parkrun, with a couple of challenging hills that have to be negotiated in each of the three circuits. The start was slow on narrow paths, but I settled into a good rhythm and enjoyed myself. Overtook people throughout just because of where I’d started, and sure enough found myself with a couple of targets in the final lap. No great shakes, but a couple of them resisted and I had to put in plenty of effort up the last hill. Mission accomplished!

20th finisher in 22:29.

Sun 29 Sep

Progressive LR 32.2k @ 5:42 avg (68% HRR)

Delighted with this first real uninterrupted 20-miler of the season (and several other seasons too). Out to Howth and up the tramline to the Summit carpark, which is exactly 10 miles from my house. Had to rein in the pace in the first half, at least until I hit the tramline, which slowed me down nicely enough. HR was well under control throughout this run, which is encouraging. Decent week.

WTD: 77 (48m)
MTD: 342 (213)
YTD: 2,203 (1,369)

Murph_D

This week: more of the same, with added weariness after some decent long runs of late (and more to come).

Mon 30 Sep

Rest.

September total: 342 kms (213 miles).

Tue 1 Oct

11k easy on the treadmill. It was raining and I didn’t fancy dodging pedestrians and umbrellas on the crowded local streets.

Wed 2 Oct

Strength: 3 x 2 mi (800m j/r) (77% HRR)

Another borrowed Hanson session. Back to the Trinity Track but all traces of the markings have vanished, with only a faint indentation tracing the edge of the innermost lane - and that only visible because it's attracting more fallen leaves than the adjacent grass.

(The college didn’t seem very committed to the track this year - after the concert closure it was never fully re-marked, with the innermost lanes discarded, meaning there was no lane equal to 400m, not that it really made any difference to my patchy track session regime).

So around the edges, waving at several former Cru clubmates out for an easy lunchtime jog. I found it hard to find the rhythm at first, starting way too fast. But eventually settled into the pace.

Splits (Target 7:54/m):

15:29 (7:45/m)
15:38 (7:49)
15:25 (7:43)

Plenty of runners in College Park, although by the end I was the last man standing, as the total session ticked over 10 miles. Picked things up a good bit in the final lap and a half, just to see how it felt.

Decent session, feeling good. Total with warmup/cooldown 16.4k (10.2m)

WTD/MTD: 28 (17m)
YTD: 2,230 (1,386)

Murph_D

Thu 3 Oct

Rest.

Fri 4 Oct

17.8k @ 5:30 (68% HRR)

Easy out to UCD for a circuit of the trails. Got lost, as I don't know the campus and the route is poorly marked. Will be back though, lovely spot to run, and at times you feel you are in deep forest. Included another couple of circuits of the disused track/carpark.

Sat 5 Oct

8.4k recovery @ 6:05

In Donegal. Around the local loop. Tired.

Sun 6 Oct

LR 32.2k @ 5:58

Fairly late out of bed and straight out the door for 20 miles on empty (another method suggested during LT test to help with my diminished endurance). I’ve run without breakfast before but probably not anything of this length. I noticed right away that the slow pace felt harder to maintain than I would normally expect, although this could have as much to do with the accumulated fatigue, last night’s dinner with pints, and fitful sleep as it does with the ‘on empty’ approach. Definitely glad when it was over, although it was a magnificent run out St. John’s Point into Donegal Bay.

So three 20-milers achieved in this brief cycle, hopefully they will count for something! Three weeks to go…

WTD: 86 (53m)
MTD: 86 (53)
YTD: 2,289 (1,422)

Murph_D

Final three weeks, and well into the second half of the ‘mini’ marathon plan. At times it’s felt a bit like the first couple of training cycles back in 2012 and 2013, with more emphasis on ‘slow’ than ’stuff’ during the LRs especially. A back-to-basics approach for sure.

Mon 7 Oct

Rest.

Tue 8 Oct

Strength: 4 x 1.5 mi (800m j/r) (75% HRR)

Continuing to swap out P&D VO2Max stuff for Hanson’s strength sessions. Headed out along the South Bay and once again the wind was mocking me, in my face in both directions. I'm much more familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the North Bay. But got through this comfortably enough. Total 17.4k.

Splits (Target 4:54/k):

11:47 (4:55/k)
11:48 (4:55/k)
11:46 (4:54/k)
11:42 (4:52/k)

Wed 9 Oct

10k Recovery 10k @ 5:53 (66% HRR)

God that was tough. Legs were totally dead - a classic late marathon plan slow slog. I'll take it as a good sign.

Thu 10 Oct

Rest. Might as well log it in advance because I’m definitely taking it.

WTD 27 (17m)
MTD: 113 (71)
YTD: 2,316 (1,440)

Murph_D

Fri 11 Oct

Recovery 6.5k @ 6:02 (58% HRR)

Recovery shuffle around Stephen’s Green and a few other nearby parks. Not feeling much energy. Passed Camp Extinction in Merrion Squar. There was a rally happening with very small numbers. Felt a bit guilty shuffling past.

Sat 12 Oct

16.5k inc. St. Anne’s parkrun @ LT+ (21:37)

Met M and C for a couple of pre-parkrun laps of St. Anne’s. The pace was a good bit brisker than earlier in the week, due to the company but also a generally fresher feeling. The plan gave the option of a tune-up race but I opted to keep the parkrun in the 21-min range and enjoyed progressing through the field after a slow start. Brief cooldown and the usual coffee.

Sun 13 Oct

LR 25.8k @ 5:20 (70% HRR)

The mrs was out early and got the worst of the weather. By the time got out around lunchtime it was a fine autumnal afternoon as I headed over to Milltown to join the marathon course for the last six miles. Lots of runners out, more smiling and waving in evidence than usual, presumably as everyone starts to see the end in sight. Tried a Maurten gel which went down quite well, didn’t mind the texture at all, unlike some. If it’s not tempting fate, this was just one of those runs that feel great from start to finish and make you confident it might be starting to come together.


WTD: 76 (47m)
MTD: 162 (101)
YTD: 2,365 (1,470)

Murph_D

Week -1 already! Nearly there. …

Mon 14 Oct

Rest.

Tue 15 Oct

Recovery 12.5k @ 5:54 (61% HRR)

Up the Howth Road to Raheny and back via the coast. Plan had 7 miles so his was about 1km too long. Hadn’t double checked the plan - General Aerobic was actually specified, but this run was still within the range. Did this late - back to watch the Ireland - Switzerland on RTE+1. Gotta love Ronnie Whelan’s optimism as our campaign implodes once we start playing the real teams.

Wed 16 Oct

Strength: 6 x 1 mi (400m j/r)

Another borrowed Hanson workout. These reps were a little more awkward than usual as I was negotiating more traffic, lights, crossings etc than usual. Upmarket route, heading over to Rathgar via Ranelagh/Milltown, returning along miles 19-20 of the marathon course before swinging back towards town at bottom of Clonskeagh Rd. This is the part of the marathon course where I sometimes find myself starting to drift off the pace - good to eyeball it on a reccie and note the amount of downhill it includes. Unwittingly took shortcut back to town via Leeson Park and ended up having to run up the canal for the final rep. :rolleyes:

Splits (Target 7:48)

7:41 (4:48/k)
7:39 (4:47)
7:53 (4:56)
7:42 (4:49)
7:43 (4:49)
7:47 (4:52)

A little fast, especially the uphill first half.

WTD 28 (17m)
MTD: 190 (118)
YTD: 2,393 (1,487)

Murph_D

Thu 17 Oct

Rest.

Fri 18 Oct

9.5k easy @ 5:43

Lunch run around D2/D4 with Singer, followed by actual lunch and plenty of marathon talk. I’m happy to report that B is looking marathon fit and is quietly confident. And why wouldn’t he be, with the work done and a new pair of vaporflys sitting in the shoe closet.

Sat 19 Oct

6.2k @ recovery inc St. Anne’s parkrun

Supposed to be (yet another!) rest day, but I was delighted to join laura_ac on her wedding day for a prenuptial parkrun. Congrats, L!

Sun 20 Oct

LR 19.3k @ 5:30

A beautiful afternoon to be out. 12 easy on the seafront and Howth Road, 8 of those miles with Ferris, who is also looking (and sounding) ready for the big day. All good. Tested the Kalenji shorts for their gel-carrying abilities, toting six around in the pockets. Popped two, which went down well without any water. So that’s the fuelling strategy worked out! All good.

WTD 63 km (39 mi)
MTD: 225 (140)
YTD: 2,428 (1,509)

Murph_D

Marathon week. It’s always a bit surreal, isn’t it, with the race looming large. Hard to concentrate on other stuff. Feeling pretty OK - still quite amazed at the number of rest days on the P&D plan, not that I really noticed this the last time I followed the schedules a few years ago.

Mon 21 Oct

Rest!

Tue 22 Oct

10k recovery @ 5:54 (72% HRR)

Out along the Liffey on way to Parkgate St. to collect the car after a service - decided to follow marathon route through Stoneybatter but got confused and turned back, although I quickly realised I'd been on the right track. Ca't believe I got lost on the Northside part of the course, short as it is!

Wed 23 Oct

10.6k easy with 3.2k @ MP

Headed out from work to D6, turning at Dartry, enjoying the autumnal atmosphere in the leafy suburbs (sorry, C). Dublin really has some beautiful neighbourhoods, and I found a few more of them today. The two MP miles were enjoyable in parts, but not the part down a busy Rathmines Road. Still - no damage done.

Splits:

7:58
7:58 :cool:

Another rest day tomorrow. Yay!

WTD 21 km (13 mi)
MTD: 246 (153)
YTD: 2,448 (1,522)

Huzzah!

Murph_D wrote: »

Marathon week. It’s always a bit surreal, isn’t it, with the race looming large. Hard to concentrate on other stuff. Feeling pretty OK - still quite amazed at the number of rest days on the P&D plan, not that I really noticed this the last time I followed the schedules a few years ago.

Ha, was copying a base plan from FRR into a spreadsheet on Sunday and kept thinking I was missing a day (or two).

Have a great run on Sunday!

AuldManKing

I'm very interested to see how you get on with your Hansons/P&D bastardised plan. No doubt it'll go well for you, Best of luck with it!

skyblue46

All the best D. Hopefully it goes well enough that we can get a race report of New York proportions on Monday!

ariana`

Good luck on Sunday D!

Kellygirl

Good luck D.

Singer

Cya in the pub! Oh and hope the run to the pub goes well

diego_b

Best of luck Denis!

Dubh Geannain

Best of luck. Looking forward to the report.

Murph_D

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'm very interested to see how you get on with your Hansons/P&D bastardised plan. No doubt it'll go well for you, Best of luck with it!

Cheers, A. Ha, yes, and don’t forget it follows 9 or 10 weeks of abandoned JD. I don’t have high expectations - the endurance is undoubtedly lacking, so just hoping the accumulated mileage will carry me through for a respectable run.

Murph_D

skyblue46 wrote: »

All the best D. Hopefully it goes well enough that we can get a race report of New York proportions on Monday!

Cheers, S. Definitely a one-off, that one. Still think about me poor sunglasses.

Unthought Known

Best of luck on Sunday D.

Swashbuckler

All the best D. Run well

coogy

Best of luck tomorrow D!! Might see you around after?