BQ or Bust!

tang1

Well done D, a PB is a PB, enjoy Italy. Not what you wanted I know, but very impressive after 2 other marathon cycles in the legs before DCM. Enjoy some R&R, very much deserved.

yaboya1

Well done on the pb Denis.
I agree. Dublin is a tough course.
Not sure if I'll ever race it again, but I'll continue to run it every time I can.

Chartsengrafs

Well done Denis, enjoy the week earned holiday.

diego_b

Well done on the pb! Sorry you didn't get your target but when you run the fastest you have ever run before you are certainly going in the right direction!

Mrs Mc

Well done on the pb enjoy the hols

Murph_D

Sun 30 Oct

Dublin Marathon 3:28:28 (PB)

My ninth marathon, third this year, fifth DCM on the trot, although it had been three years since racing it. Could I finally hit this year's goal and bag a GFA for London (3:20) or, failing that, NYC (3:23)? It had been a long year, some promise early on with PBs at 10m and 5k and a small 10k PB in the summer, the gloss taken off with the two disappointing marathons in Boston (sorry, positively the final mention) and Cork, and a so-so race series, featuring a good 10k, a poor Frank Duffy and a decent enough Dublin Half. The training had been good, if unspectacular, with a 14m MP run completed about three weeks out. Had not done much hill work, although there had been plenty of that earlier in the year, so all in all I went into this feeling strong, confident, and in a good place mentally, having completed my studies and started some new work recently.

Time to get the job done, in other words.

I'd decided on a slow start, negative split strategy that would hopefully avoid burnout on the tougher first half of the DCM course (although it's never felt that way to me). It was a risky enough strategy in hindsight, given my tendency to fade during the final stages, and perhaps should have built in some cushion for that. In the end, I ran the slow first half, but when the time came to pick it up and get things rolling, it seems there was nothing there. So the PB, when it came, was not what I wanted, although it's a lot better than walking away with nothing at all, which has been becoming the norm.

Things had started brightly enough. Negotiated the congestion easily enough (wave 1 seemed smaller and less crowded than previously, despite this year's big field). A Derry lad started chatting away in the first mile but it was too early to waste such energy and I grunted a few times until he took the hint and latched on to someone else. Some early support from Anna, with my sister in Stoneybatter. The Park section was uneventful - I tracked some elder Tallaght lads for a while then moved on at the Castleknock Gate, going through 10k as planned in just over 49 mins. Really enjoyed the electric atmosphere in Castleknock, which set the tone for the other rallying points later on at Chapelizod, Kilmainham, Dolphin's Barn, Walkinstown, Milltown, Roebuck Road and of course the finishing straight.

The second 10k passed without much incident, although there was the small matter of a noticeable injection of pace. I reminded myself at 10 miles that this was time to dig in, concentrate and run a good solid second 10. The pace was duly quickened, but not quite enough. I was moving nicely through the field. But despite passing nearly 400 people by halfway in Crumlin (1:41:59) I was a minute behind the goal. I did the maths - a four minute negative split required to hit the target, and I think I mentally gave up there and then, without even considering how to hit the B goal.

Steady enough through Terenure in the third quarter, getting some great shouts, including a good one from Adrian at the Templeogue Road turn. Decent splits through 30k, improving over 200 places since halfway, but not enough: these splits were not supposed to be steady, they were supposed to be progressive. :rolleyes: Felt a bit stitchy a few times but it never developed. So when push came to push harder through Clonskeagh and Roebuck I should have been in a better place. But I could feel the energy drain after the Milltown respite, and a lovely shout from nop and FD before the Clonskeagh drag. Don't remember a lot about the drag itself except it didn't feel that bad in itself, it was more that it was me that was the obstacle, slowly deteriorating. (Mindfulness me arse.) The left hamstring said hello a few times and I started to worry about cramp. Not a normal issue for me, and maybe I overreacted: the instinct was to shorten the stride and consolidate, while maybe I could have been braver.

When Foster's finally arrived I welcomed the downhill but couldn't do anything much to stop the rot. The 5min+ km splits continued through the final stretch. Tried to get something going on Stillorgan Road with a Watergrasshill runner who pulled up alongside, but I couldn't stick with him at all. More twinges from the hammy. Two Athenry runners I'd been tracking had disappeared, same with the two DSD women who'd been in the vicinity for most of the race. The death march had begin in earnest, although thankfully I was still managing to hold my own in relation to the rest of the field, passing more than being passed.

Of course the B-goal was long gone. I wouldn't say I gave up on it - as suggested above I don't think I even thought about it to be honest. I have a tendency in the second half of races to stop thinking about the numbers, and if the numbers aren't right, they tend to slip by the wayside. This was the same. But I had glanced at the watch with four or five kms to go and realised I could still PB if I could hold on and string together a few 5:15-ish splits to finish. The last couple of miles, as usual, is a blur - much noise, many clubmates, family and others supporting, maybe not enough pain. A popped up again at Ballsbridge with our daughter who was a bit worried at my pallor. Then there was sight of the finish from Mount St Bridge, only to find out what you first see is not the line, which is in fact another 400m away (never noticed that last year, but I'm sure my pacees did). I was able to pick it up a little, just a little, enough to trigger a few dry heaves, enough to get comfortably under 3:29, and the slow death was finally over. I congratulated a few runners and moved away quickly, feeling a bit queasy but soon recovering.

Another terrific event, and I'm always delighted to be able to do it. I've salvaged a PB, which on reflection, after the long year, is more than a consolation. It also looks like I've helped the M50 club team to another Dublin Bronze as second scorer, pending a challenge to the provisionally published results which omitted our lead runner. That's something to take away too - a second masters medal this year, over-delivering on one of the 2016 goals (if under-delivering on a few others). So as usual, always some positives among the negatives. (Also managed to get in under 3:29:58, the meaning of which you can figure out yourself.) Having said all that though, a disappointing performance on a day with perfect conditions for getting the job done. No excuses.

5k splits (target 23:40 Avg.)

24:39
24:50
23:30
23:43
24:07
24:35
25:44
25:48
(11:32)

Target: 3:19:59
Actual: 3:28:28
Posn: 2,249 (of 16,918). 40th M55 (of 461). Age grade: 69.81%. VDOT: 45.9
Verdict: What's next?

Ferris B

Nine Marathons now and medal to boot. Not too shabby!

Great report as always. Honestly thought you deserved better time tho.

Changes for next time?. Not much wrong with your training imo. What about fueling ( training, pre race, during race). Not sure what your doing now but it's another controllable that might make a difference if tweaked.

Murph_D

Ferris B wrote: »

Nine Marathons now and medal to boot. Not too shabby!

Great report as always. Honestly thought you deserved better time tho.

Changes for next time?. Not much wrong with your training imo. What about fueling ( training, pre race, during race). Not sure what your doing now but it's another controllable that might make a difference if tweaked.

Got five gels in during the race - one more than usual! Hydration and nutrition in race week was pretty good I thought - I'm never really a big eater but got the carbs in. Light on the beer during the last weeks.

Dunno really. Might be time to bite the bullet and do some strength training for my skinny pins.

Mrs Mc

Great report D so sorry you didn't get your GFA but wear that medal with pride 9 marathons is very impressive you'll at least have to round it up to 10 ! Enjoy the hols and rest 3 marathons in a year is some going.

annapr

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Great report D so sorry you didn't get your GFA but wear that medal with pride 9 marathons is very impressive you'll at least have to round it up to 10 ! Enjoy the hols and rest 3 marathons in a year is some going.

Here would you stop with the 10!!!!

Neady83

Great report Murph, thank you for taking the time to write it. You've had a great year of racing, three marathons, plenty of pbs and a PhD is nice haul for the year

Anna, it's your turn next, I'm sure Murph will do support

denis b

Congrats D. It has been a busy and demanding year. Perhaps the holiday has come at the right time and allows for some reflection. Interesting that weights have popped into your head already. I asked a few in Mc Grattans about the same subject as I am tending to think that I also need a rebuild !!!

chickey2

Great report, sorry you didn't get the gfa. Sounds like something different might help alright. As they say, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results generally doesn't work!
You can't stop at 9!

ThebitterLemon

Well done Murph, I probably know how you were feeling as I'd a similar experience in Amsterdam. I thought your training deserved more but that's the marathon.

You've trained very consistently and I'm sure it'll come good.

Is there any aspect of your training that you feel you could have improved?

TbL

Murph_D

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Well done Murph, I probably know how you were feeling as I'd a similar experience in Amsterdam. I thought your training deserved more but that's the marathon.

You've trained very consistently and I'm sure it'll come good.

Is there any aspect of your training that you feel you could have improved?

TbL

Mileage was a little low for current cycle but that's because I though it wise to stay as fresh as possible for a third attempt. Really I probably should not have run Cork - very unlikely to have hit goal seven weeks after Boston and it just cut into quality time for Dublin cycle.

I think.

Any ideas yourself? All ears!

Murph_D

Fri 4 Nov

40 mins recovery along the Vieste seafront in Puglia, Italy. Nice to get out after four days rest. Sun on skin. Took detour towards another beach, down a rocky trail ending on top of a 50 foot cliff. Glad I was gong so slowly.

Sat 5 Nov

Another 40 mins in the opposite direction to yesterday. Took off the shirt and got a few stares. It's 18 degrees but the locals are wandering around in duffel coats looking miserable. Bus load of school kids on an outing pointed and stared. :rolleyes:

Sun 6 Nov

Have relocated to Bari for final night. Hotel near train station which can be risky in European cities but ventured out on the gritty streets anyway for 30 mins. Very humid. Legs feeling reasonable after a relaxing week.

ThebitterLemon

Murph_D wrote: »

Mileage was a little low for current cycle but that's because I though it wise to stay as fresh as possible for a third attempt. Really I probably should not have run Cork - very unlikely to have hit goal seven weeks after Boston and it just cut into quality time for Dublin cycle.

I think.

Any ideas yourself? All ears!

I find that more miles make me stronger but it's a fine line to get it right and stay injury free.

I'm far from any sort of expert but you seemed to have plenty of the shorter faster stuff done but were a little light on mileage. McMillan had a pretty good article on marathon fade (for people who have done a few marathons) and how to address it (if I can find the link I'll send it to you) that I think would stand to you.

You also seem to be fairly hardy and injury free so maybe try some extra miles or longer runs in tired legs.

TBH I was expecting you to be far closer to 3.20 than 3.30.

TbL

ThebitterLemon

There you go D.

https://run.mcmillanrunning.com/fixing-the-fade-feeling-strong-in-the-final-miles/?utm_source=activecampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=TuesdayTip110116


TbL

Murph_D

Thanks C - will take a look. It's true, the fade is my nemesis so have to deal with it somehow.

Like you I expected closer to 3:20. Not happy at all with the performance. Took a bit of solace out of the team medal despite a couple of mediocre performances but that's just a sideshow. So something has to change!

Agree re injury-free status, should capitalise. Hope that's not tempting fate of course.

Murph_D

The other thing of course is the mental aspect. The ability to turn off the governor and take it to the next level. Im definitely struggling with that.

ThebitterLemon

Murph_D wrote: »

The other thing of course is the mental aspect. The ability to turn off the governor and take it to the next level. Im definitely struggling with that.

Yep I struggle with that too, but miles bring strength, strength brings confidence and confidence brings positive mental attitude, works for me.

Caveat: miles also can bring injuries...

TbL

Murph_D

DCM recovery week 2

Tue 8 Nov

6k @ 5:40 (3.7 mi @ 9:07)

Considered jogging over to Irishtown but with the wet night that was in it, opted to drive instead, much to BG’s relief. Considered doing the 400/800 session for about 2 seconds before one of the coaches sternly advised me and one of my fellow elders to do easy laps instead. Good call.

Thu 10 Nov

60 mins easy (10.5k / 6.5mi)

An easy run up through Ballymun and Santry Demesne with FBOT and yaboya.

Sun 13 Nov

16.6k @ 5:32 (10.3 mi @ 8:54)

In Donegal for the weekend, so an opportunity to revisit the Croagh hills and the lovely caravan park. This felt great - the legs are appreciating the extra rest this week. Actually passed another runner on this, which is highly unusual around here. Yes, he waved (but barely).

WTD: 33k (21m)
MTD: 51 (32)
YTD: 2,666 (1,657)

Murph_D

DCM recovery week 3

Tue 15 Nov

14.3k @ 5:39 (8.8 mi @ 9:06)

Another jog over to Irishtown. Dynamic warmup with everyone else, then out for a few easy miles along the south coast with Ferris, who is back in action again.

Thu 17 Nov

45 mins easy (8.2k / 5.1mi)

Circumstances conspired against the usual meet up with P and/or M, so some solo twilight miles along the great northside avenues.

Sun 20 Nov

20k @ 5:32 (12.4 mi @ 8:55)

Having taken some extra rest days this week I was keen to get in a reasonable MLR. Wrapped up in the base layer and Waterford HM woolly hat for a chilly outing to the seafront and into St. Anne's for a circuit of parkrun courses old and new. Very sociable run as I kept bumping into people and stopped twice to chat.

Not a bad week considering all the rest days. Will try to dial it up slightly over the next two weeks to get some speed for the Jingle Bells.


WTD: 43k (26m)
MTD: 94 (58)
YTD: 2,709 (1,683)

Murph_D

DCM recovery week 4/Donadea Wk 1

Mon 21 Nov

Rest. 12 weeks to Donadea. Going to follow modified 12-week P&D peaking at 55+ miles/wk with a few miles added on to the LRs.

Tue 22 Nov

6x800 (75s standing rec)

Jogged over to the track with BG and Ferris. Decided to do the session, although it had been so long since I’d done 800s that I couldn’t remember the target pace. Found a suitable group after doing first rep in the wrong place. Steady enough for the rest of the session, and the rep times turned out to be pretty much on target (3:12-3:16) when I checked later.

3:12 3:12 3:16 3:15 3:16 3:17

Jogged back to D3 for a total of 14k (9m).

Wed 23 Nov

Rest.

Thu 24 Nov

General Aerobic 16k @ 5:38 (10 mi @ 9:03)

Enjoyable easy run with FBOT and yaboya over to the Phoenix Park via the Tolka and back via the Canal.

Fri 25 Nov

More rest. I love this plan.

Sat 26 Nov

parkrun 5k @ 4:56 (3.1 mi @ 7:56)

Pacer Saturday at St. Anne’s, so I volunteered for the 25 mins slot. Comfortable run, at what will possibly be close enough to 50k pace in three months time. Our pacing group looked pretty comfortable too. Most of them pushed on at 4k, though I caught a few on the last hill and helped them up and over and across the line. Coffee and cake and the usual bants afterwards.

Sun 27 Nov

LR: 22k @ 5:28 (13.7 mi @ 8:47)

Joined a couple of lads from the club who were doing 90 mins. Covered most of the Park in that time. They headed for refreshments while I continued on for another 30 mins. Lovely crisp morning, not as cold as expected. Checked the San Seb results in the car afterwards: Hard luck, TbL and congrats AMK.


WTD: 57k (36m)
MTD: 150 (93)
YTD: 2,766 (1,719)





Murph_D

Operation Donadea Wk 2 of 12

11 weeks to go. Feeling fully recovered from DCM now. JB at the weekend so no doubt the plan will be slightly rearranged.

Mon 28 Nov

Plan: rest
Actual: rest

Tue 29 Nov

Plan: MLR 18k (11m)
Actual: VO2 session (track)

12 x 400 (45s standing rec)

Gentle jog over to the track with BG, joined again by Ferris. Thought I was overdressed but as soon as I removed the extra layers for the dynamic warmup I felt the chill. Picked the right group for a change and the session felt challenging but at the same time very manageable. Could definitely do these faster, and maybe should? Based on my 5k pace, J Daniels suggests 1:36, Pfitzinger says 1:38, but McMillan recommends 1:30. Quite a range there. For now I’m in the Daniels range, and who am I to argue with him?

1:36 1:35 1:36 1:34 1:34 1:35
1:36 1:34 1:33 1:35 1:33 1:28

A few cooldown laps and the the jog home for 16k (10m) total.

Wed 30 Nov

Plan: rest/cross
Actual: 6.9k (4.3m) recovery

40 mins recovery on the seafront, out to Vernon Ave and back. Beautiful crisp and sunny morning. This run shall henceforth be known as the “Easter Island Special”.

WTD: 23k (14m)
MTD: 173 (108)
YTD: 2,789 (1,733)

Wubble Wubble

Good work D, glad to hear you're recovered from your DCM exertions. Have you got a target in mind for JB?

Bungy Girl

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Good work D, glad to hear you're recovered from your DCM exertions. Have you got a target in mind for JB?

He does

Murph_D

Wubble Wubble wrote: »

Good work D, glad to hear you're recovered from your DCM exertions. Have you got a target in mind for JB?

PB is 20:21 from May, off back of spring marathon training. I'd be confident of having a good run for the same reasons. And it's a net downhill course, in what looks like good weather conditions. Target has to be <20:00.

As to executing, we shall see.

tang1

Sub 20 no bother to you D, shall see you there no doubt.

Annie get your Run

Murph_D wrote: »

PB is 20:21 from May, off back of spring marathon training. I'd be confident of having a good run for the same reasons. And it's a net downhill course, in what looks like good weather conditions. Target has to be <20:00.

As to executing, we shall see.

I believe best advice is 'go hard or go home' no bother to you D.