Rent Prices are Crazy

RedPandaDan

Zulu wrote: »

Madness. No way.
Ok.
Good.
Very good.
Extremely good.

And i'd sign up to most of them to be honest. You've good ideas there (except 100% taxes)

Its weird, I honestly thought the 100% tax would be less controversial than the mortgage cap and unused property levy.

gaius c

drumswan wrote: »

It was a hypothetical to show how mortgage issues do reflect on the rental market, obviously.


Yes, and what happens to the price of gems if 20% of all unpaid for gems are artificially kept of the market....

Why are we talking hypothetical nonsense when there's a real life example near at hand?

AIB shares trade at a falsely high value because 99.9% of AIB shares are not tradeable and the restriction in turnover has inflated the share price. Now apply that to a housing market where turnover rate is about half of what a healthy market would show in what is a much more illiquid commodity.

No decent stock is for sale and proposing that wannabe FTB's indulge in some preemptive Stockholm Syndrome and pay off the bad financial decisions of the previous lot of buyers to "fix" the market is simply throwing good money after bad.

murphaph

Is a healthy property market one where there are loads of transactions or one where there are comparatively few? Germany definitely falls into the latter category for example.

El_Dangeroso

The Spider wrote: »

basically if you want a job outside of farming or a factory, you have to go to Dublin more or less (pharma being the exception)

Ok so to get this straight: Dublin is New York and most people outside Dublin work in a factory or a farm.

The Spider

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Ok so to get this straight: Dublin is New York and most people outside Dublin work in a factory or a farm.

No one said Dublin was New York, but it's the capital of this island and therefore the destination of choice for the career minded.

Not going to get pedantic about it but Farming factories shops etc. they're the jobs.

God knows all the trades are gone....

El_Dangeroso

The Spider wrote: »

Not going to get pedantic about it but Farming factories shops etc. they're the jobs.

God knows all the trades are gone....

So here is where you turn around and say that you didn't mean that most people outside dublin work in the primary and secondary industries (a fact so easily refuted with a link to the CSO, that I don't think anyone will bother), when that's exactly what you said.

Let the back-peddling commence!

quadrifoglio verde

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I would suggest that it all just goes back to the bank in most cases. The LL would spend it on the mortgage.

Just because money goes back to the bank, doesn't mean that the money is gone out of the economy....

The Spider

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

So here is where you turn around and say that you didn't mean that most people outside dublin work in the primary and secondary industries (a fact so easily refuted with a link to the CSO, that I don't think anyone will bother), when that's exactly what you said.

Let the back-peddling commence!

Ah yes, if you don't get the point made I'm not going to explain it to you.....NEXT!

Grandpa Hassan

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Just because money goes back to the bank, doesn't mean that the money is gone out of the economy....

But it doesn't mean that it is contributing. It's just adding to the banks capital pile

Michael D Not Higgins

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

But it doesn't mean that it is contributing. It's just adding to the banks capital pile

But that's how banks work. Their capital allows lending based on the fractional reserve set by the central bank.

Grandpa Hassan

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

But that's how banks work. Their capital allows lending based on the fractional reserve set by the central bank.

Except they need to be adequately capitalized before they start to function properly....lend, repossess etc. So for now it's disappearing into the big capital requirement / paying bondholders back black hole. It isn't being immediately lent out and contributing to the economy. It's getting hoarded. Anyway, the thread is getting derailed.

Eldarion

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Anyway, the thread is getting derailed.

I wouldn't think so. I think bank capitilisation and current viability status has everything to do with crazy rent prices.

If they're not functioning properly they're not lending. If they're not lending to the construction sector then there is less supply and if they're not approving mortgages there's less people purchasing properties, which means more people renting.

Potatoeman

The Spider wrote: »

No one said Dublin was New York, but it's the capital of this island and therefore the destination of choice for the career minded.

Not going to get pedantic about it but Farming factories shops etc. they're the jobs.

God knows all the trades are gone....

The capital of a small island country on the edge of Europe with low population and low population density.

Eldarion

Potatoeman wrote: »

The capital of a small landlocked country on the edge of Europe with low population and low population density.

I think you need to look up your definition of landlocked again....

Augmerson

Whats going on in Dublin is having a knock-on effect in other "commuter belt" counties like Laois and Kildare. Rents in Portlaoise which has fairly decent transport links to Dublin have gone up by 150-200 over a year.

Potatoeman

Eldarion wrote: »

I think you need to look up your definition of landlocked again....

Fixed.

ILikeBananas

The Craziness is spreading to Cork. Viewed 4 properties today.

One apartment had 9 groups viewing it in the space of a 90 minute window and 8 had made offers

In another we were informed that 4 had already viewed it and 3 had made offers.

In a third it was an open viewing and 4 groups were waiting outside the door for the agent to come when we arrived.

I asked a few of the agents why it was so mad and they just said lack of available properties. One guy said that since rent prices have gone up people tend to stick to their places rather than move around so much.

househunter 2014

Am looking to buy in the next year or so but am still renting. Rang an estate agents in Tipperary about renting an apartment and even though the two I am interested in have been on daft for at least a fortnight, they are being shown at the moment and are probably taken. The man on the phone did ask whether I was single or in a couple. Thought it was a strange question for a 2 bed, considering I can easily afford the rent alone (not Dublin prices). The next town also has very little to offer.... the madness has hit the South East/ Midlands/ Tipp so!

TheBandicoot

Tipperary is the south east?

househunter 2014

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Tipperary is the south east?

Midlands??

gaius c

Was going to say that but then bit my hand thinking "stay on topic, stay on topic".

Eldarion

ILikeBananas wrote: »

The Craziness is spreading to Cork. Viewed 4 properties today.

One apartment had 9 groups viewing it in the space of a 90 minute window and 8 had made offers

In another we were informed that 4 had already viewed it and 3 had made offers.

In a third it was an open viewing and 4 groups were waiting outside the door for the agent to come when we arrived.

I asked a few of the agents why it was so mad and they just said lack of available properties. One guy said that since rent prices have gone up people tend to stick to their places rather than move around so much.

Can I ask were you viewing apartments in close proximity to the city center or were these out a little bit?

ILikeBananas

Eldarion wrote: »

Can I ask were you viewing apartments in close proximity to the city center or were these out a little bit?

Not in the city centre as we need 2 car spaces. Douglas, Wilton, Maryborough and Blackrock.

fash

murphaph wrote: »

I do agree that our rental sector needs reform including some form of rent increase caps for SITTING tenants. New tenancies should be decided by the open market though.

How does that work exactly though?
Say 4 tenants co sharing in a house in Dublin for last 3 years. Rent prices for new places going mad around them- one wants to leave- can they replace that person?
Say they keep the old rent, you were the new person, how much would you pay to lock in to the existing rent?

As a tenant, can I sublet? Can I demand key money to buy the cheap rent?

As a landlord, can I kick the tenant out for family, repairs, selling, not suitable for needs, at the end of 4 year cycle?

MouseTail

I really cant understand the calls for rent caps. All they have historically done is reduce the quantity and quality of accommodation available.

gaius c

MouseTail wrote: »

I really cant understand the calls for rent caps. All they have historically done is reduce the quantity and quality of accommodation available.

murphaph was suggesting something a little more nuanced, increase caps for sitting tenants. That might be worth some exploration but yes, in general, rental caps should be approached very very carefully.

Potatoeman

gaius c wrote: »

murphaph was suggesting something a little more nuanced, increase caps for sitting tenants. That might be worth some exploration but yes, in general, rental caps should be approached very very carefully.

Wouldn't the landlord just say they needed it for family reasons to get the current tenants out and a new market rate tenant in?
I do think that 30% increases in some cases is madness but at the same time people need to stop paying prices that are over market rate. There is a house down the road from me was up for two months and the rent seemed a good 300 over current rates. I wonder if it was let for the asking price as it was certainly not worth the asking price. It was a four bed with a small kitchen and living room. I'm not sure how useful it would be for a family or a house share .

who_ru

ILikeBananas wrote: »

The Craziness is spreading to Cork. Viewed 4 properties today.

One apartment had 9 groups viewing it in the space of a 90 minute window and 8 had made offers

In another we were informed that 4 had already viewed it and 3 had made offers.

In a third it was an open viewing and 4 groups were waiting outside the door for the agent to come when we arrived.

I asked a few of the agents why it was so mad and they just said lack of available properties. One guy said that since rent prices have gone up people tend to stick to their places rather than move around so much.

EA tactics are to get all interested parties to view property at the same time thereby creating a sense of 'oh no look at how many are here!' and try to get people into making a paniced decision. it's and old one but still reliable for them.

asingrang

who_ru wrote: »

EA tactics are to get all interested parties to view property at the same time thereby creating a sense of 'oh no look at how many are here!' and try to get people into making a paniced decision. it's and old one but still reliable for them.

That would backfire big time if noone was interested at the price

murphaph

fash wrote: »

How does that work exactly though?
Say 4 tenants co sharing in a house in Dublin for last 3 years. Rent prices for new places going mad around them- one wants to leave- can they replace that person?
Say they keep the old rent, you were the new person, how much would you pay to lock in to the existing rent?

As a tenant, can I sublet? Can I demand key money to buy the cheap rent?

As a landlord, can I kick the tenant out for family, repairs, selling, not suitable for needs, at the end of 4 year cycle?

Well one of the problems that needs sorting as I see it is the messy situation in Ireland with regards to shared rentals. We all know the stories of the lease where none of the signatories even live in the property anymore. That sort of thing should never happen in a properly functioning system.

I believe that a LL should generally rent a property to a single individual who is liable for the entire rent and that head tenant should be able to sublet (if the LL believe his property is suitable for subletting...a 1 bed apartment is probably not).

Key money is illegal and should remain so also for head tenants who sublet.

A LL should only be able to evict a tenant if they are in breach of their tenancy terms or if he needs the property for himself or immediate family or indeed if he wishes to perform major repairs/improvements (but in this case the former tenants should have first dibs on renting the renovated property). I don't believe that a LL should be able t evict a tenant merely because it's 4 years since the tenancy commenced or recommenced.

Usual qualifier: None of these safeguards should be afforded to tenants without similar safeguards being afforded to landlords when it comes to delinquent tenants. It should be possible to evict a tenant in breach of their terms in a matter of weeks at most and there should be some form of register of tenants' and landlords' histories so each side can vet the other before entering into an agreement. It works for eBay...it can work for this too. Data protection etc. can be legislated for.