More job losses

JPA

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Is there no talk about the pay scales they were on out there? everybody knows that they paid very well for at the end of the day is a factory, people were getting taken on and trained up. I know theres people with Degrees etc etc but the general work base were getting too much money and thats the problem at the end of the day the cost base is too high here. again i feel sorry for the staff and everybody out there cos this WILL impact everybody who lives in Waterford one way or another but i wouldnt be feeling safe in any factory that was a foreign company paying good wages for jobs that are unskilled work.

Wages are the average, or slightly below, the industry standard. Wages are not out of proportion.

Hijpo

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Is there no talk about the pay scales they were on out there? everybody knows that they paid very well for at the end of the day is a factory, people were getting taken on and trained up. I know theres people with Degrees etc etc but the general work base were getting too much money and thats the problem at the end of the day the cost base is too high here. again i feel sorry for the staff and everybody out there cos this WILL impact everybody who lives in Waterford one way or another but i wouldnt be feeling safe in any factory that was a foreign company paying good wages for jobs that are unskilled work.

i take exception to that statement

They are skilled jobs that require a lot of training and the employees must adhere to strict quality compliance due to it being a medical devices manufacturer. They are not assembling two peice jig saws.

Bigger picture, its over one thousand people in the city with 20% less disposable income.

TheQuietFella

Bad news indeed for all connected with the plant & a lot of restless nights going into the future. Pay cuts no doubt will have to be accepted for the future of the plant & that will not be easy. I would assume that the application for redundancies will be over subscribed & I'm sure the vast majority will be accepted.

As for the future I wouldn't hold out much hope for the company remaining in Waterford.
Unemployment is still quite high in the U.S. & even though it is Canadian owned I think the work will revert back to Rochester.

Waterford is not on any governmental radar in my opinion. The closure of a world renown crystal manufacturing facility, the loss of 800 jobs & the subsequent monies generated by touring groups would not have been allowed to have happened if it had been Dublin or Cork.
A greater effort to save it would have ensued!

We are now quickly becoming the Liverpool of Ireland, treated abysmally by the then Conservative government. With little or no investment in the future of this once proud County & we only have ourselves to blame through sheer complacency.

I hope for the sake of all those involved in B&L it can be saved but just bare in mind the plight of Bus Eireann workers who are fighting against the privatisation of Waterford routes that like the Tramore Train, once it's gone it will never come back!

fuzzy dunlop

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Bad news indeed for all connected with the plant & a lot of restless nights going into the future. Pay cuts no doubt will have to be accepted for the future of the plant & that will not be easy. I would assume that the application for redundancies will be over subscribed & I'm sure the vast majority will be accepted.

As for the future I wouldn't hold out much hope for the company remaining in Waterford.
Unemployment is still quite high in the U.S. & even though it is Canadian owned I think the work will revert back to Rochester.

Waterford is not on any governmental radar in my opinion. The closure of a world renown crystal manufacturing facility, the loss of 800 jobs & the subsequent monies generated by touring groups would not have been allowed to have happened if it had been Dublin or Cork.
A greater effort to save it would have ensued!

We are now quickly becoming the Liverpool of Ireland, treated abysmally by the then Conservative government. With little or no investment in the future of this once proud County & we only have ourselves to blame through sheer complacency.

I hope for the sake of all those involved in B&L it can be saved but just bare in mind the plight of Bus Eireann workers who are fighting against the privatisation of Waterford routes that like the Tramore Train, once it's gone it will never come back!

As anologies go re: Liverpool then it isn't an inacurate one.

nostrils

Even if the remaining 900 agree to the 20% cut I'd give it a year or two max and the rest of these jobs phased out,

I'd reckon they already have another low wage country earmarked and will pull out of Ireland soon as possible.

Hijpo

The fact that they are already setting out their aims to decrease costs it will only take the first bit of resistance or a cost reducing target not being met for them to declare the place unfeasibl.

mooseknunkle

The place will be closed down within a year this is the beginning of the end unfortunately.

Wanderer2010

Waterford will be a complete and utter ghost-town in a year or so if something isnt done about these losses, we really have suffered a LOT more than Dublin and Cork and Galway, for the first time ever I actually dont want my kids to grow up in this city because there is nothing to keep them here..

Hijpo

The only way to make a living will be to open a coffee shop in town somewhere

er1983

There's enough coffee shops in town IMO, there never all full when I pass them

obezyana

Hijpo wrote: »

The only way to make a living will be to open a coffee shop in town somewhere

Sure at this stage no one will be working and have the money to be sitting out having a coffee.

PTH2009

Education is the only way to go in this town or jobsbridge and ce shemes. It's beyond a joke.

The highest education I have is a higher cert in tourism and I open up the Waterford today and see a prime position (the Viking triangle volunteers) as a volunteering organisation and them meeting a highly paid ambassador of some sort .That's a paid job I'd love to have. I'm hopefully going back to wit to get my tourism degree but if I got offered a good factory job id take it but in this city i doubt that will happen. Hopefully I mite pick up a job in the new supermarket on Ballybricken but that won't open til at least 2016

To get a job in a supermarket or hasbro it's not what you know it's who u know. Ah owl Mary's nephew need an oul job ah Sure we will give it to him

Hijpo

obezyana wrote: »

Sure at this stage no one will be working and have the money to be sitting out having a coffee.

Just because your not working doesnt mean you cant sit outside drinking coffee

garp

Average Unemployment rate in Ireland.......11.8%
Average Unemployment rate in Waterford.. 19%

Something has to give.
Something has to be done.
Waterford is becoming the land that time forgot.

nostrils

Vacancies as interns on the job bridge scheme will all that will be offered to the first 200 unfortunate employees to go first

obezyana

Hijpo wrote: »

Just because your not working doesnt mean you cant sit outside drinking coffee

Just because some one looses their job doesn't mean it's a go for them to open a coffee shop, as said before the town is full of em......or was full of em.

Hijpo

obezyana wrote: »

Just because some one looses their job doesn't mean it's a go for them to open a coffee shop, as said before the town is full of em......or was full of em.

Supply and demand, plenty of coffee drinkers hanging around most of the day and bruton was telling us all about the incentives and avenues for funding SME's... sure well be flying again in no time with his advice.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Supply and demand, plenty of coffee drinkers hanging around most of the day and bruton was telling us all about the incentives and avenues for funding SME's... sure well be flying again in no time with his advice.

Widely reported it's the SME's that will get us back on our feet tbh.

Motivator

Sully wrote: »

Isn't their logic more that it's the most expensive of their operations and the wages are higher than anywhere else? Appears that's what they are looking to do, rather than shutup shop and head out of town for a cheaper operation in India.

To be honest, I can't help but shake the feeling that these type of jobs are not what we need. We need something more sustainable and steady, that wont move around depending on cost factors and so on.

A big blow to the economy here though, no doubt.

I was only thinking the same today, Eishtec is a prime example. Yes they're employing a few hundred people & I'm happy they're doing so but there's nothing stopping them shutting up shop in the morning & moving their operation elsewhere.

What's happening in this town is beyond scary. 200 peoples lives ruined today & there's no other way of looking at it. How long is it until the other 900 are laid off? All it will take is for the union to play hard ball & B&L will pull the plug.

When is this going to stop? When will enough be enough? I've been saying it for years, Waterford is a kip. It has been for years & today it just became an even bigger kip. I'm sick of it now & this evening I sat down with the wife to discuss getting out of here once & for all.

kuang1

Motivator wrote: »

I was only thinking the same today, Eishtec is a prime example. Yes they're employing a few hundred people & I'm happy they're doing so but there's nothing stopping them shutting up shop in the morning & moving their operation elsewhere.

What's happening in this town is beyond scary. 200 peoples lives ruined today & there's no other way of looking at it. How long is it until the other 900 are laid off? All it will take is for the union to play hard ball & B&L will pull the plug.

When is this going to stop? When will enough be enough? I've been saying it for years, Waterford is a kip. It has been for years & today it just became an even bigger kip. I'm sick of it now & this evening I sat down with the wife to discuss getting out of here once & for all.

Not really living up to your username there motivator!

kuang1

Btw anyone expecting strike action?
Can't see that doing anything except more harm to the cause myself.

old gregg

I don't know who it was but there was some guy talking about this on Hook's show on Newstalk today and he was saying that the staff are not really that well paid but that B&L are dealing with a market that is dying due to folks opting for laser eye surgery or buying contact lenses online and B&L being just another brand. I suppose for the shareholders much comes down to ethics and in the world of commerce ethics seldom has a role to play. B&L could close every plant they have and out-source their products in the morning and who would even know? The Customer will look at price and buy or walk. A sad indictment on greed but little use to local folks working there.

But, there's tons of local folks who'd jump at 20% below B&L wages right now. Goes to show just how messed up this country is. My buzz is wrecked with Ireland, it really is.

mcko

I feel sorry for Waterford,lovely people and a lovely city but just let to go down the tubes by the government,sad day but with the increase of rampant capitalism people don't matter any more.
It is all greed at a corporate level big bonus culture. I work in the pharma industry and get paid well, it has allowed my family a great standard of living and this is the way it should be. We are a high wage economy because it is an expensive place to live in. My wife was just in Denmark and she didn't find it expensive, that shows what it is like to live here.

Thomas D

mcko wrote: »

I feel sorry for Waterford,lovely people and a lovely city but just let to go down the tubes by the government,sad day but with the increase of rampant capitalism people don't matter any more.
It is all greed at a corporate level big bonus culture. I work in the pharma industry and get paid well, it has allowed my family a great standard of living and this is the way it should be. We are a high wage economy because it is an expensive place to live in. My wife was just in Denmark and she didn't find it expensive, that shows what it is like to live here.

What could the government have done in this situation?

obezyana

Anyone see the page on Facebook Block the Bridge? I don't see how blocking a bridge is going to do any good or even make an impact it's basically putting out people who actually are going about their business.

I can see the good intention in it but IMO it's a silly idea. Go protest outside City Hall let the councillors hear and see the protests right in their own place of work.

fricatus

obezyana wrote: »

I can see the good intention in it but IMO it's a silly idea. Go protest outside City Hall let the councillors hear and see the protests right in their own place of work.

It's hardly the councillors' fault now, is it? They have fcukall power. If people want to protest, let them do it outside Leinster House or Richard Bruton's department.

jonnyfingers

Ok I worked for B+L for a number of years before moving to a job with one of their competitors, CooperVision, in the UK in 2011. It was interesting to work for two different contact lens manufacturers and the differences between them were illuminating. I know people will call for the government to do something but I think B+L is more a case of a company being used as a pawn by its shareholders with every action being taken to benefit those shareholders. Sadly I'm not sure what can be done.

Firstly I think B+L could be run better and events over the past 7-8 years or so have led to the announcement today. When I moved to CooperVision I saw some differences between how it ran and how B+L ran. Firstly B+L probably has an older average workforce age than CooperVision. Some people have been there a long time, which is great, however with pay rises over the years the wages at B+L are most likely higher than CooperVision. CooperVision also has plenty of Eastern Europeans working on the shop floor, which doesn't necessarily mean they're on lower wages but it might do. Also maintenance at CooperVision seemed to be much more effective. The Maintenance department at B+L are famously difficult, not all of them but some of the old guard can be. They're unionised, they fight for all and any pay rises and they also have clear boundaries about the work they will and will not do. It can be segmented, e.g. there are electricians, fitters, apprenetices etc., and electrician will not fix a mechanical problem, a mechanical guy won't fix an electrical problem, neither will fix an IT or PLC programming problem. They always went to lunch together, leaving very few people on the shop floor to fix problems if they occurred. They always seemed to have too much power over management and wouldn't think twice about calling for a strike. Now again not all of the maintenance guys were like that, some of the younger guys were great, however the older guys were difficult to work with at times. At CooperVision there are no unions but everyone still gets along. The maintenance department also do everything, e.g. every single person does electrical work, mechanical work, programming, fault fixing etc. Also the machinery at CooperVision is cheaper than at B+L however it I didn't see much of a difference in performance or quality, that may have been because the IT Infrastructure was top notch but B+L would be quite close to it also. It was more a case of sticking with the machine manufacturer that you already had, in CooperVision's case it was a cheaper manufacturer. In both factories I thought there was a mixture of good machine operators and poor machine operators so that didn't make much of a difference. But overall the atmosphere at CooperVision at the time (circa 2011-2013) was much better than at B+L (circa 2006 - 2011), probably because CooperVision was publicly owned, management were making good decisions and the employees were constantly commended and made to feel good. During my time B+L was the opposite of that. Regarding diversification CooperVision also invested heavily in laser eye surgery equipment, so if that market picked up at contact lenses' expense then they weren't adversely affected. All that culminated in CooperVision moving to number 3 in the contact lens market and B+L slipping to number 4.

I was at B+L when they were bought out by Warburg Pincus, a private equity investment firm. The company had come off of a bad year with numerous lawsuits and set backs which gave Warburg Pincus the opportunity to buy the company. At the time B+L were number 3 in the contact lens market and CooperVision were number 4. Warburg Pincus then did what every private equity investment firm does, cut costs through redundancies and other cost saving methods, increased revenue (or perceived revenue) and increased some capital (i.e. bought a lot of machines). This is done to make B+L look like an attractive company that someone will want to buy it. There is a lot of financial engineering that goes on during this process so all is not what it may seem. However last year it paid off and Valeant bought B+L from Warburg Pincus and their investors made a tidy profit of over a billion dollars.

Now B+L is still profitable and is making plenty of money, however the Valeant CEO committed to cost cuttings of $800 million in 2014 as part of the acquisition of B+L, mainly as they had to borrow quite a lot of money to buy B+L in the first place. This, I believe, is what's driving the announcement about the Waterford plant. If the cost savings of $800 million are not met the share price will take a hit, and that's really the only issue here. As it has to be done by the end of this year redundancies are the only thing that are going to help in that short term.

So it's a horrible situation and sadly one that the Irish government can do little about other than offering to throw money at Valeant to help towards their cost savings target or offer some incentives for staying in Waterford. I have family and friends that still work at B+L and I can see that they've already become leaner over the last few years while still making profits. There isn't too much more that can give. B+L has a huge market in Japan who just don't want their contact lenses to be made in China or India so there is a place for B+L in Ireland so all is not lost. Valeant should know this and should have a long term plan. However redundancies and pay cuts are just a short term fix to what is a long term problem. B+L needs to be run better than it is currently at corporate level. Now that may happen from next year onward but it might be too late for at least 200 workers.

So don't be swayed by the company's announcement. The wages may be higher in Waterford than in Rochester but Waterford does excellent R&D and is worth it in my opinion. The scaremongering that wages are cheaper elsewhere shouldn't be believe either. B+L need to stay in developed countries or else their lucrative Japanese market will take a dive. This is why CooperVision, Ciba and J&J are all in the UK and Ireland. All the company is doing is trying to justify redundancies and pay cuts to hit a cost savings target to appease shareholders. Similar cost savings could be made over a slightly longer term by improving their manufacturing and increasing sales. However that would mean playing slightly less dividends to shareholders and slightly less bonuses to the top floor. Cutting valuable staff will not increase their market position from number 4, if anything it will be counter productive.

obezyana

fricatus wrote: »

It's hardly the councillors' fault now, is it? They have fcukall power. If people want to protest, let them do it outside Leinster House or Richard Bruton's department.

Well they are the elected people in power they can help this city grow not just sit back collecting their pay cheques. None of them are standing up and fighting Waterfords corner they are all just happy to give some sound bites.

Btw I was merely stating the Block the Bridge idea was silly and that people would be better protesting on City Hall than on a bridge. The elected people in City Hall can at least see and hear people's frustration.

jackhammer

nostrils wrote: »

Even if the remaining 900 agree to the 20% cut I'd give it a year or two max and the rest of these jobs phased out,

I'd reckon they already have another low wage country earmarked and will pull out of Ireland soon as possible.

I reckon the same.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think the 20% cut is designed to make people leave of their own accord (not that it's an option for most given there's few alternatives for employment in the city), and to reduce the cost of the redundancy packages when the inevitable happens (as those packages will be based on salary).

A horrible situation for the workers in B+L.

manor

Great post.