More job losses

fuzzy dunlop

Digital Society wrote: »

40k minus 20% is still far more than most have to pay their mortgages.

Plenty of people on less than half that actually. Also i assume most people their are fairly old and a lot will even have their houses paid for. Someone who worked their commented on how old the average age is.

If you try get sympathy for a wage cut like that around here not many people will listen. Other people have been through far worse.

They are on slghtly less than the average Industrial wage. You are making a huge amount of assumptions in your statements. I can't help but think your gauging these peoples circumstances against your own and coming to the wrong conclusion,

http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/average-industrial-wage-in-ireland-576846-Aug2012/

The job they doing requires a significant amount of knowledge even though that might not be attained through formal education though much of it would be.

The trend that "ëverything is going to China " is over simplistic. Some things are some things are not. The fact is the West is still the best place to do business and that includes Ireland.But all that is neither here nor there, The fact that this company is our largest employers still after 30 years is a testament to the pure neglect of the government. And if you do not have sympathy for the people working there who will lose there jobs then think of this. The amount of money taken out of the economy because of this could already equate to 600 jobs. If all the jobs are lost it could equate to 2000 in real terms. And what that means to the state in Dole payments, medical cards , social welfare in general and/or retraining is at least 50 million a year. Your atitude might be some way justified if we had a steady stream of replacement jobs like in Galway. It is amazing that the news of job losses in Waterford Always attracts some character with a "You Lucky bastards/If I had it my way....." routine. You don't see it on any of the other regional forums. But then again most of the other regions are not subjected to the same BS from the state.

mooseknunkle

Digital Society wrote: »

40k minus 20% is still far more than most have to pay their mortgages.

Plenty of people on less than half that actually. Also i assume most people their are fairly old and a lot will even have their houses paid for. Someone who worked their commented on how old the average age is.

If you try get sympathy for a wage cut like that around here not many people will listen. Other people have been through far worse.

The average age at a guess would be around late 20's to late 40's and no a lot of people wouldn't have their mortgages paid off.

IRLConor

Finnbar01 wrote: »

I wonder has the shale gas 'revolution' (cheaper energy costs) got anything to do with it?

Electricity costs are substantially lower in New York than they are in Ireland. I don't know how much power B&L uses, but that could make a big difference.

Rochester's probably pretty cheap in terms of labour too. The US census bureau quotes the median household income at $30,708 or €22,524. That's roughly 40% lower than what the CSO quotes for Munster (they don't break it down further than that, as far as I can see). I know Waterford is probably lower income than the Munster average, but still, I can't imagine it's as cheap as Rochester.

Hijpo

Digital Society wrote: »

40k minus 20% is still far more than most have to pay their mortgages.

Plenty of people on less than half that actually. Also i assume most people their are fairly old and a lot will even have their houses paid for. Someone who worked their commented on how old the average age is.

If you try get sympathy for a wage cut like that around here not many people will listen. Other people have been through far worse.

40k is the average wage, if you had 6 people in a room and 5 of them where on 10k and 1 was on 100k the average would work out at 25k not at all reflecting what the lower wage is. i would very much doubt that an operator is on anywhere near 750 a week, which would give you your 40k.

Also now that the arse has fallen out of industry in waterford it would be interesting to know how many people are employed to cover a 3 shift cycle these days. This might be the reason B&L employees could be on more than someone in something like retail for example has to pay their mortgage.

You make it sound like the people in B&L are exempt from financial difficulty, take your head out of the sand.

Digital Society

sparkling sea wrote: »

I know alot of people in B and L traded up in the boom so I wouldn't assume that they have small mortgages just because they are older, in fact they could be worse off than you think.

Productivity at the Rochester plant versus Waterford plant should be looked into, no one can get an overall picture without weighting up every aspect and not just one:( I wouldn't rely on Siptu to look into this if I worked there either, people working in the factory might be better off doing the hard lifting with regard to facts and figures themselves.

They will still be on 650 a week average. As i said already obviously bad news but not the end of the world. Try dropping to 188 in a non-transferable job. Thats whats coming next. At least their getting a good warning unlike Waterford Crystal and TalkTalk.

This country is ****ed. Easy to blame the easy targets such as politicians and foreigners and whatever else but the reality is its the technology which where using right now. The internet. Software is replacing everything! Politicians cant do jack **** about it.

mooseknunkle

Digital Society wrote: »

They will still be on 650 a week average

Where you getting this from? after paye,prsi,usc,property,no operator is taking home 650 a week.

You seem to have some chip on your shoulder about people working in b&l.

Digital Society

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Where you getting this from? after paye,prsi,usc,property,no operator is taking home 650 a week.

You seem to have some chip on your shoulder about people working in b&l.

Not at all. Not with B+L.

Its more like witnessing a county fall apart.

Hardly the only one thats pissed off with the situation.

niallo76

it is a sad state of affairs where some posters are suggesting that the workers of B&L are just a bunch of 1100 whingers,under-educated,menial,straight out of school,'you-should be lucky to even have a job type of people-'take the hit in your wages,because hey,sure you are on 40 grand a year,what have i got'.This is a sickening attitude that does nothing but add negativity to an already souring thread.I have been fortunate to work in Waterford Bausch& Lomb.My ten year anniversary was due on the 4th of October of this year.By working in B&L I have been able to pay my mortgage each month and provide for my family(wife and 2 kids)for the last ten years.I am grateful for this and would never give out about B&L for providing this.But to suggest that B&L workers are in the elite when it comes to wages is a bit of a joke-we are not by any means paid excessively-we work shift-work,and we work-to suggest that we are a bunch of morons doing a menial job is highly offensive.Most distressing is the bigger picture of what the closure of B&L will do to the local economy. It puts a stop to the blaas and the paper on the way home from work,,McDonalds for the kids on a Friday,swimming/drama lessons,cinema on the weekend,shopping in town etc.-if people think that the moronic.sub-intelligent workers from B&L wages do not have an effect on Waterford's economy,then what hope have we got...at the moment I am being backed into an corner where i face taking redundancy and emigrating or biting my lip.take a 20% decrease in my wages and carry on for however long Valeant decides they want -I do not know a lot of people who would be willing to work 5 days and only get paid for 4.Is'nt that moronic?

road_high

20% cut in anyone's wages is savage. That's most people's disposal income wiped out after bills, rent etc

mooseknunkle

And its not just the economy in Waterford that will take a hit,Bausch & Lomb employees make donations through their wages to a lot of charities each week,only last year they collected €40,000 for the hospice,link.And since 1995 have been donating money to Vasilivichi which in 2010 they had donated over €400,000, link.

Deise67

don't know what to say to the worker's its a very distressing time for them , worked in the glass till the end so know how upsetting this is ! this has nothing to do with the worker's it corporate greed , I don't hold out much hope for b&l, I feel its part of an engineered solution to close. they will lose all the high end lab chemists, engineers , accountants etc , as they might have other options, anyone with transferable skills will bale ASAP ! 20% not realistic in this day & age , easy come back and say its better than Dole but if you have base your outgoings on Y and you end up on X overnight its very difficult to balance the books ! 5% or even 10% maybe but 20% hard to take ! hopefully it posturing but I don't think so ! best of luck lads n lassies really really hope this works out some way fair for ye !

fiachr_a

Some of those workers can apply for FIS (family income supplement) after this pay cut.

Hijpo

I thought FIS was only available to single parents?

Why dont you release a press statement advising them of 40% cuts and FIS....


Think its best that your put on ignore now

MikeyReilly

Quote from David McWilliams on his facebook page. Puts it into perspective the tax breaks the government give to multinational companies and the level of greed they have for more profits.

"I wonder how much profits Bausch + Lomb have made in Waterford over the years? US numbers show Irish-based multinationals make $970,000 profit per employee in Ireland per annum, yet pay just $24,500per employee in tax - and now workers are told to take 20% wage cut. Is it a pay race to the very bottom, while profits soar to the sky?"

Using the downturn in the economy as an excuse doesn't hold weight when you read stuff like this.

fiachr_a

We need more Irish multinationals instead of importing foreign ones who only care about profit. Someone should set up a factory to make Waterford Crystal lenses!

crazy_kenny

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2014/04/22/bill-ackman-outs-valeant-ceo-mike-pearson-as-a-billionaire/

CatFromHue

Interesting first comment on that link!!

cookie.monster

fiachr_a wrote: »

We need more Irish multinationals instead of importing foreign ones who only care about profit. Someone should set up a factory to make Waterford Crystal lenses!

believe me the irish multinationals are at it also!!!

road_high

A lot of the most skilled people will leave. They'd have to, if their skills are saleable elsewhere it's a no brainer. It almost sounds like a kind of constructive dismissal. If they had a redundancy scheme they'd have a rush out the door I'd say.

TheQuietFella

fiachr_a wrote: »

We need more Irish multinationals instead of importing foreign ones who only care about profit. Someone should set up a factory to make Waterford Crystal lenses!

Do you think that companies are set up to provide you with a good standard of living &
make no provision for the future? Do you believe that you are owed a living as a birth right?

Reading an earlier post where it was stated the Waterford branch of B&L donated over 400K to a certain charity. If I was the CEO of this company I would certainly be saying 'I'm paying these people too much' regardless of the generosity.

mooseknunkle

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Reading an earlier post where it was stated the Waterford branch of B&L donated over 400K to a certain charity. If I was the CEO of this company I would certainly be saying 'I'm paying these people too much' regardless of the generosity.

The 400k was over 15 years,Valent/Bausch & Lomb make that in a few hours.

mcko

You would have to take the money and run when they are looking for 20% pay cuts the place is going to close down, keep your pay for as long as you can and that is all you can do really.
Where I work they were moaning about the cost of overtime would make the place close down, go ahead they were told and know what we are still here.

fuzzy dunlop

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Reading an earlier post where it was stated the Waterford branch of B&L donated over 400K to a certain charity. If I was the CEO of this company I would certainly be saying 'I'm paying these people too much' regardless of the generosity.

Why? Most companies actively promote their staff getting involved in Charity fundraisers. The Goodwill it generates for the companies image is priceless. It would cost a lot more than 400k if you hired some marketing stooges to conduct some branding exercise.

jonnyfingers

Not sure if this will help many of those currently at B+L but I've been contacted by my old boss at CooperVision in Southampton asking if I heard the news about B+L. He mentioned that they would be very interested in looking at any engineers from B+L who fancied a move to the UK. Not sure if anyone would be interested but if you know of anyone I could put them in touch with him.

I know emigration is not great for the local economy. But a job is a job and they're a good employer and doing very well at the moment.

Max Powers

i hope the 900 jobs are saved, 80% of your wages is better than 100% of dole. Heard good few have applied for voluntary redundancy already so that is a slight positive in this terrible mess. tough but i really hope unions dont make a balls of it, they will all have their union jobs after all this.

mozattack

Get the trade unions in I say, they have done wonders for the country... (yeah, sure)

padraig.od

Max Powers wrote: »

i hope the 900 jobs are saved, 80% of your wages is better than 100% of dole. Heard good few have applied for voluntary redundancy already so that is a slight positive in this terrible mess. tough but i really hope unions dont make a balls of it, they will all have their union jobs after all this.

Why would people apply for redundancy when the terms haven't been announced? Unless I missed that.

padraig.od

mozattack wrote: »

Get the trade unions in I say, they have done wonders for the country... (yeah, sure)

the trade unions are already there, people pay their subs every week. Its at times like this that you appreciate the trade union...

Sully

Personally don't see the issue with highly trained and skilled workers being paid appropriately for it, if the company is well able to afford it. But sadly, some of these companies don't particular care and just focus on squeezing as much profit as possible.

cookie.monster

padraig.od wrote: »

the trade unions are already there, people pay their subs every week. Its at times like this that you appreciate the trade union...

trade unions do more damage than good.