More job losses

fiachr_a

So do most charities!

spankmemunkey

Just a thing to note, if the company was doing such great business why did the previous owner sell?

cookie.monster

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Just a thing to note, if the company was doing such great business why did the previous owner sell?

EXACTLY!!! there,s a big shift over to laser surgery these days

fuzzy dunlop

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Just a thing to note, if the company was doing such great business why did the previous owner sell?

This is not unusual! This is Warren Buffets style of investing. Buy companys that are already doing well.

padraig.od

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Just a thing to note, if the company was doing such great business why did the previous owner sell?

Why would you not sell if someone offered you what you thought it was worth?

padraig.od

cookie.monster wrote: »

trade unions do more damage than good.

good point, well made.

spankmemunkey

padraig.od wrote: »

Why would you not sell if someone offered you what you thought it was worth?

They must have thought lets take the money and run. If it was such a gold mine and making such great money etc etc etc Im sure they noticed a trend in figures and thought lets take it while we can. again sorry to all there and I hope something can be done as it will have a huge impact in a place already dying.

JPA

spankmemunkey wrote: »

Just a thing to note, if the company was doing such great business why did the previous owner sell?

They were an investment firm.
Buy, raise the company's value and sell at a profit. $$$

cookie.monster

valeant have a business agenda and are using the employees of B+L as pawns in there game of chess!!! this kinda thing is happening in the business world, no job now is for life!! once a company use's up there ten year tax break they will ship outta the country to some where else

Digital Society

cookie.monster wrote: »

valeant have a business agenda and are using the employees of B+L as pawns in there game of chess!!! this kinda thing is happening in the business world, no job now is for life!! once a company use's up there ten year tax break they will ship outta the country to some where else

Some will but theres still plenty of smaller companies (~100 - 200 employees) still going strong and even expanding.

Its the massive 500+ employee companies that are getting the ideas to cut a few hundred and mechanise their work. Theres robots that cost probably a years salary that pay for themselves in 1 year. They go 24/7 and do 3 shifts a day without breaks. You simply cant compete with that in manufacturing. They probably do the work of 6 people.

I would highly advise anyone in a factory that finds themselves out of work to go to WIT or any other college and either study IT or manufacturing. Best chance of getting good work again. 2 years accelerated courses that get you a degree. Remember aswell that you'll probably work till your 68 so age isnt a big deal.

MidlandsM

cookie.monster wrote: »

valeant have a business agenda and are using the employees of B+L as pawns in there game of chess!!! this kinda thing is happening in the business world, no job now is for life!! once a company use's up there ten year tax break they will ship outta the country to some where else

Basically...off to poland now or similar.

JPA

Digital Society wrote: »

Some will but theres still plenty of smaller companies (~100 - 200 employees) still going strong and even expanding.

Its the massive 500+ employee companies that are getting the ideas to cut a few hundred and mechanise their work. Theres robots that cost probably a years salary that pay for themselves in 1 year. They go 24/7 and do 3 shifts a day without breaks. You simply cant compete with that in manufacturing. They probably do the work of 6 people.

I would highly advise anyone in a factory that finds themselves out of work to go to WIT or any other college and either study IT or manufacturing. Best chance of getting good work again. 2 years accelerated courses that get you a degree. Remember aswell that you'll probably work till your 68 so age isnt a big deal.

The machines in B + L go 24/7 as well. But they still can't run themselves or fix themselves yet.

ToxicPaddy

Sully wrote: »

Personally don't see the issue with highly trained and skilled workers being paid appropriately for it, if the company is well able to afford it. But sadly, some of these companies don't particular care and just focus on squeezing as much profit as possible.

It's pretty normal for companies who have just been acquired a new company to start cost cutting and trimming in all areas. The companies who acquire them have to show a positive slant on the balance sheet for their shareholders asap and unfortunately its the shop floor workers who usually bore the brunt of these changes.

It's happened to me in two different companies I've worked for. We indirectly were hit when one of our largest customers were acquired and then this buyer proceeded to cancel every single project that was costing over X amount that this company had just to shore up their balance sheet. As a result, most suppliers had to in turn cut their staff numbers and so on. Between direct and indirect redundancies, it cost close to 2k jobs.

I do agree that 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing but if you're a highly skilled engineer why should you have to sacrifice your standard of living for someone else's share so I can see a lot of people with high skillsets leaving and going elsewhere.

The only thing that suffers then is the company with the eventual closure altogether of that branch as their output drops, people don't want to work for them as they don't see them as having a future and who suffers again, the average joe on the shop floor.

Finnbar01

JPA wrote: »

The machines in B + L go 24/7 as well. But they still can't run themselves or fix themselves yet.

That maybe so but as it becomes more expensive to hire people, automation will increase.

Think of a factory that is automated with just a skeleton staff.

dvcireland

US based employees not happy with culture of new owners
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Bausch-and-Lomb-Reviews-E82.htm

'.....“Great until Valeant purchased.”

fricatus

Digital Society wrote: »

Its the massive 500+ employee companies that are getting the ideas to cut a few hundred and mechanise their work. Theres robots that cost probably a years salary that pay for themselves in 1 year. They go 24/7 and do 3 shifts a day without breaks. You simply cant compete with that in manufacturing. They probably do the work of 6 people.

Reminds me of this legendary conversation!

Digital Society

JPA wrote: »

The machines in B + L go 24/7 as well. But they still can't run themselves or fix themselves yet.

The whole point of a machine is that they do run themselves 24/7 after minimal input from a user and im sure reliability is a major research and development topic with constant improvements. Generally what goes wrong is further up the manufacturing line rather than the actual robotic arm that carries out the repetitive task.

Im Working in Software and If you seen the machines in a manufacturing plant that ive seen you would be very worried for the future of most workers that work in these mega factories. Even driverless trucks will be viable in the next 10-15 years which will eliminate 1000s of drivers jobs.

The future for 1000 employee factories is 100-200 staff plus massive autonomous systems. Tough times ahead.

mufcboy1999

It's going to close down soon regardless of accepting the pay cut or not, there's no hope for Waterford let's be honest it's only got/getting worse.

Max Powers

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

It's going to close down soon regardless of accepting the pay cut or not, there's no hope for Waterford let's be honest it's only got/getting worse.

if you have no hope, you have nothing.
I have hope, I love this place and fatalistic rubbish like this makes me think, how are you still going if you have no hope. There is hope there, there is some good happening out there, no need to be so fatalistic, its not all doom and gloom even in tough times like this, spreading misery helps no one including yourself, you need to snap out of your rut before this 'no hope' feeling overcomes you.

Here's hope, next season could hardly get any worse than the last one MUFC.

Hijpo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

That maybe so but as it becomes more expensive to hire people, automation will increase.

Think of a factory that is automated with just a skeleton staff.

They already had the chance to make things more automated in the waterford plant. Machines were supposed to be on the way that were much more automated but when valeant took over the project and machines were rerouted to the US.

Finnbar01

Hijpo wrote: »

They already had the chance to make things more automated in the waterford plant. Machines were supposed to be on the way that were much more automated but when valeant took over the project and machines were rerouted to the US.

It sounds to me this is the beginning of the end of B&L in Waterford.

I hope I'm wrong.

christy02

Maybe if the workers took some responsibility themselves and came up with a plan. The unions will do them no favours.

I work in operations for a major multi national and I know exactly what goes on. We have increased productivity by 15% by putting a bit more focus on what operators are doing.

From what I have heard b&l is no better and probably worse. If workers agreed to increase there output by a certain amount per shift, this might convince valeant to give the plant a chance. Lets face it is obviously not viable or else they wouldn't be closing it.

Unions will cripple industry in this country if they are let. All they want to do is line there pockets. Workers should stop blaming government and valeant and concentrate on making the plant efficient and therefore profitable. They would then have to leave it open.

christy02

Maybe if the workers took some responsibility themselves and came up with a plan. The unions will do them no favours.

I work in operations for a major multi national and I know exactly what goes on. We have increased productivity by 15% by putting a bit more focus on what operators are doing.

From what I have heard b&l is no better and probably worse. If workers agreed to increase there output by a certain amount per shift, this might convince valeant to give the plant a chance. Lets face it is obviously not viable or else they wouldn't be closing it.

Unions will cripple industry in this country if they are let. All they want to do is line there pockets. Workers should stop blaming government and valeant and concentrate on making the plant efficient and therefore profitable. They would then have to leave it open.

wellboytoo

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

It's going to close down soon regardless of accepting the pay cut or not, there's no hope for Waterford let's be honest it's only got/getting worse.

I'd say your some craic in the pub?

mufcboy1999

Max Powers wrote: »

if you have no hope, you have nothing.
I have hope, I love this place and fatalistic rubbish like this makes me think, how are you still going if you have no hope. There is hope there, there is some good happening out there, no need to be so fatalistic, its not all doom and gloom even in tough times like this, spreading misery helps no one including yourself, you need to snap out of your rut before this 'no hope' feeling overcomes you.

Here's hope, next season could hardly get any worse than the last one MUFC.

As much as I also love Waterford my hope realistically lies outside it. I actually have a plan in place so no there's no need to come across so high and mighty assuming that I'm stuck in a rut without even knowing me.

Please do enlighten us on where this good is happening though ? because all I see around me are people leaving, job losses and shops closing now unless there's a secert location in Waterford that's thriving that I don't know of I really doubt there's any large scale good happening.

I'm not spreading any doom and gloom either it's my opinion on what I happen to think will happen sooner or later to B&L.

Hijpo

christy02 wrote: »

Maybe if the workers took some responsibility themselves and came up with a plan. The unions will do them no favours.

I work in operations for a major multi national and I know exactly what goes on. We have increased productivity by 15% by putting a bit more focus on what operators are doing.

From what I have heard b&l is no better and probably worse. If workers agreed to increase there output by a certain amount per shift, this might convince valeant to give the plant a chance. Lets face it is obviously not viable or else they wouldn't be closing it.

Unions will cripple industry in this country if they are let. All they want to do is line there pockets. Workers should stop blaming government and valeant and concentrate on making the plant efficient and therefore profitable. They would then have to leave it open.

Apparently there are other ways to cut costs before going after wage cuts in the likes of bonus payments, VHI plans and doctor schemes.


Given the place is mostly automated already i dont think promising to increase the amount of units per shift is achievable. I would imagine the machines are run to capacity unless its obvious they are being deliberately turned off, in that case they wouldn’t have lasted this long and people would have more than likely lost their job over it.


Apparently when Warhburg Pincus took over a few years ago they came in and stream lined the plant reducing costs etc etc in order to sell it, so in my eyes that process has been done already so i dont see what Valeant have left to do other than turn the place a sweat box.


Order numbers have not decreased so the level of work expected will be still there but with 200 less people to achieve it on 20% less pay. Already you can see this cannot be maintained going forward, producitivity will soon start to drop giving valeant another excuse to wind up operations.


I still dont understand why they would risk loosing the entire japanese market over one plant though. Surely it will be a massive cost to them closing their biggest contact lens plant, loosing markets, probably slipping further than 4th in the market etc

Finnbar01

According to the Independent: unions are putting forward proposals to cut holidays and get staff to work extra hours to avoid pay cuts

Hijpo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

According to the Independent: unions are putting forward proposals to cut holidays and get staff to work extra hours to avoid pay cuts

they have weekend shifts in there and i dont think they have shut downs so they could be looking at continental shift patterns??

christy02

Hijpo wrote: »

Apparently there are other ways to cut costs before going after wage cuts in the likes of bonus payments, VHI plans and doctor schemes.


Given the place is mostly automated already i dont think promising to increase the amount of units per shift is achievable. I would imagine the machines are run to capacity unless its obvious they are being deliberately turned off, in that case they wouldn’t have lasted this long and people would have more than likely lost their job over it.


Apparently when Warhburg Pincus took over a few years ago they came in and stream lined the plant reducing costs etc etc in order to sell it, so in my eyes that process has been done already so i dont see what Valeant have left to do other than turn the place a sweat box.


Order numbers have not decreased so the level of work expected will be still there but with 200 less people to achieve it on 20% less pay. Already you can see this cannot be maintained going forward, producitivity will soon start to drop giving valeant another excuse to wind up operations.


I still dont understand why they would risk loosing the entire japanese market over one plant though. Surely it will be a massive cost to them closing their biggest contact lens plant, loosing markets, probably slipping further than 4th in the market etc

You would be surprised how much could still be done. Machines may be automated but still.need operators to run them. Most have a target for the shift and will not go past it.

To do so would have fellow workers on their backs. I have seen a new starter physically threatened by another employee because he overshot the target which is normally achievable at a canter.

jonnyfingers

christy02 wrote: »

You would be surprised how much could still be done. Machines may be automated but still.need operators to run them. Most have a target for the shift and will not go past it.

To do so would have fellow workers on their backs. I have seen a new starter physically threatened by another employee because he overshot the target which is normally achievable at a canter.

If you adhere to the "Theory of Constraints" paradigm reducing the production targets of individual machines in a production line can actually improve overall line and plant efficiency so getting the machines to output more is not the answer. Besides B+L has plenty of engineers trained in Lean and Six Sigma methodologies so the production part of the plant should be somewhat efficient already. Compared to the early years of the century headcount is significantly down and the number of automated machinery has drastically increased.

If B+L really need to save costs they could become more efficient in many other ways, including globally, by looking at supply chain issues, inventory, WIP reduction, increased sales, reduced lead times. Cutting wages and redundancies are just a crude quick fix.

I'm not sure what Valeant are really trying to do here. Lets be conservative and say that the redundancies and pay cuts will save them €20 million a year. That's also assuming that plant performance is not affected by these losses (a very big assumption and highly unlikely to be true). Okay that's a sizeable saving but only a fraction of the €800 million cost savings they're looking for in total for 2014. Also B+L are probably making in the region of €110 million in profit each year.

Ok it's easier to cut costs than improve profit but I'd be amazed if job loses and pay cuts did not affect the performance of the Waterford plant. Some missed sales orders or even worse, a lawsuit or recall, could easily wipe the €20 million cost saving off the bottom line. Shutting the plant down and moving, transferring all equipment to a new plant, hiring skilled workers, setting up IT infrastructure, getting FDA approval, setting up the supply and delivery chains....all of that would definitely wipe out any cost savings, not to mention lose them a huge percentage of their market due to unfilled sales orders during the move.

So they're playing a risky game. If they see B+L as a going concern then they must be aiming to improve its market share. To do that they need to improve their sales targets and possibly drive down their cost per unit. To meet those new targets they' would need both Waterford and Rochester to be humming. So if that's their plan then they either believe that the Waterford plant can be run much better with less staff or else they'll be able to move the plant elsewhere in the world while still meeting customer demand. If it's the former then the Waterford plant may have an opportunity to meet performance targets while retaining some or all staff. If it's the later I think the senior management at Valeant are either naive or just plain stupid.

The other option is that Valent don't see B+L as a going concern, they may be using it just to drive up their share price in the short term, strip it of some assets and cash, save some costs and then offload it to one of the other big contact lens manufacturers. If that's the case then not only Waterford but Rochester may well be doomed in the long run.

So interesting times ahead. I sincerely hope as many workers in Waterford can keep as much as their pay, conditions and benefits as possible. However I wouldn't be to confident of the long term future of the plant (next 5-10 years). Hopefully the local and national government will recognise this too and realise that 1200 more people may be on the live register eventually and will need jobs to move to. They haven't acted soon enough to have such jobs lined up at this stage but hopefully something can be done to get some jobs in the coming years.