More job losses

Digital Society

christy02 wrote: »

You would be surprised how much could still be done. Machines may be automated but still.need operators to run them. Most have a target for the shift and will not go past it.

To do so would have fellow workers on their backs. I have seen a new starter physically threatened by another employee because he overshot the target which is normally achievable at a canter.

Robots can only do limited work but what they do, they do extremely fast and efficiently. They cant replace Fitters, Electricians, HR, Drivers, Health and Safety, Sigma, Logistics and a lot of others.

How much of B&L can be replaced we will only find out from someone who works there and is willing to be honest.

Theres factories there that used to have 500+ employees in the IDA estate that now have 150 + employees, machines and Sigma Strategies.

B&L might not even be suitable which could be good or bad. Better to have 500 employees & machines than 0 employees or maybe they make enough to stay after 20% cuts for another long time.

kayevajo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

According to the Independent: unions are putting forward proposals to cut holidays and get staff to work extra hours to avoid pay cuts

Thats not true

vixdname

christy02 wrote: »

You would be surprised how much could still be done. Machines may be automated but still.need operators to run them. Most have a target for the shift and will not go past it.

To do so would have fellow workers on their backs. I have seen a new starter physically threatened by another employee because he overshot the target which is normally achievable at a canter.

I work there christy02 and in the olden days when there was manual lens inspection ops had a daily target to meet and very rarely purposely went over that target.
Nowadays however, it it all fully automated, with 2 ops doing what once took 20 ops to do, so no, there is no wriggle room there

Hijpo

vixdname wrote: »

I work there christy02 and in the olden days when there was manual lens inspection ops had a daily target to meet and very rarely purposely went over that target.
Nowadays however, it it all fully automated, with 2 ops doing what once took 20 ops to do, so no, there is no wriggle room there

Like i said before, the machines just run and run and spit out product, there is no limiting them to hit a certain number either by turning them off or slowing them down etc

vixdname, is it true that in the moulding section 1 op used to run 2 automatic machines but now 1 op runs 3 automatic machines?

christy02

Hijpo wrote: »

Like i said before, the machines just run and run and spit out product, there is no limiting them to hit a certain number either by turning them off or slowing them down etc

vixdname, is it true that in the moulding section 1 op used to run 2 automatic machines but now 1 op runs 3 automatic machines?

Of course there is. Machines run if they are fed. If that was the case there would be no need for an operator.

They also stop for some type of in process testing I would assume.

Operator swinging the lead or in the jacks on his phone, machine stops and doesn't start until operator starts it again.

Also breakdowns and suchlike would impact performance and reaction time to breakdowns by facilities techs.

Hijpo

christy02 wrote: »

Of course there is. Machines run if they are fed. If that was the case there would be no need for an operator.

They also stop for some type of in process testing I would assume.

Operator swinging the lead or in the jacks on his phone, machine stops and doesn't start until operator starts it again.

Also breakdowns and suchlike would impact performance and reaction time to breakdowns by facilities techs.

Hang on now, you said that there are targets set and that people are unwilling to pass them. now you want to factor in maintanance and stopages due to faults, talk about moving the goal posts.

The machines are preloaded with enough consumables (for want of a better word) to keep the machine running until it either faults (cue some operator covering the lead swinger and the phone bandit in the jacks, to reset the fault in order to keep the managers off their back) or there is no more "consumables" to load it with.

Have you done any research into the process and machines used in the plant?

Also the in process testing seems to be done while the machines are operational. In order for the test peices to be collected the machine has to provide them.

Digital Society

So realistically from someone who works there how much could be automated?

Junior

jonnyfingers wrote: »

So interesting times ahead. I sincerely hope as many workers in Waterford can keep as much as their pay, conditions and benefits as possible. However I wouldn't be to confident of the long term future of the plant (next 5-10 years). Hopefully the local and national government will recognise this too and realise that 1200 more people may be on the live register eventually and will need jobs to move to. They haven't acted soon enough to have such jobs lined up at this stage but hopefully something can be done to get some jobs in the coming years.

Just to follow up on this point about government and local government, going back to the Dell Plant closure in Limerick, from when the plant opened, till the closure Local TDs and Ministers never set foot inside the place, and when a "delegation" was sent to speak with Dell management in the US they had no relationship nor had they ability to deal with anyone.

The IDA et al need to pull the finger out on this sort of relationship building, as do our politicians, sure I understand Johnny Power Local TD can't ring up the CEO of America INC and ask well lad how's it going, but other than plant closures and sod turning they don't seem to do anything.

Waterford was supposed to be a decent area for Pharma and that's now slowly fading away, MSD locating in Carlow a few years back was another example of a ball being dropped for Waterford. There are opportunities out there for Waterford, we just need the right people pulling and working for the area.

jonnyfingers

Junior wrote: »

Just to follow up on this point about government and local government, going back to the Dell Plant closure in Limerick, from when the plant opened, till the closure Local TDs and Ministers never set foot inside the place, and when a "delegation" was sent to speak with Dell management in the US they had no relationship nor had they ability to deal with anyone.

The IDA et al need to pull the finger out on this sort of relationship building, as do our politicians, sure I understand Johnny Power Local TD can't ring up the CEO of America INC and ask well lad how's it going, but other than plant closures and sod turning they don't seem to do anything.

Waterford was supposed to be a decent area for Pharma and that's now slowly fading away, MSD locating in Carlow a few years back was another example of a ball being dropped for Waterford. There are opportunities out there for Waterford, we just need the right people pulling and working for the area.

Good point about relationship building. I was in UL when Dell closed actually. We used to always take a shortcut through the Dell grounds to get to some nearby shops. When it was open there were hundreds of cars parked there every day. After it closed it was a ghost town. Used to be an eerie walk from then on, watching as the grass grew longer and longer as it was no longer being regularly cut, the trees were no longer maintained and the building slowly succumbing to vandalism. Limerick as a city was badly affected by that closure too.

But I remember the feeling at the time being that Dell was Limerick's little treasure and wasn't it great that we have a big US manufacturer in our city. But nobody seemed to develop that relationship and possibly took it for granted. Then when it closed it was all reactive, trying to keep it open, scrambling for a solution.

I don't know if the IDA or the government do this but I would love to see some ongoing contingency plans. What if next year our top employers decide to cut costs, what if job losses are announced, what are our strengths and selling points to multinationals and how can we keep them sweet? I mean they must do, but I certainly don't see too much actions being taken when these types of scenarios arise.

Max Powers

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

As much as I also love Waterford my hope realistically lies outside it. I actually have a plan in place so no there's no need to come across so high and mighty assuming that I'm stuck in a rut without even knowing me.

Please do enlighten us on where this good is happening though ? because all I see around me are people leaving, job losses and shops closing now unless there's a secert location in Waterford that's thriving that I don't know of I really doubt there's any large scale good happening.

I'm not spreading any doom and gloom either it's my opinion on what I happen to think will happen sooner or later to B&L.

i dont know what you hope to achieve by spreading your misery except bringing others into a feeling of depression. If you dont recognise that your original post was spreading doom and gloom, this conversation aint going any further. yeah things are closing but in my experience its doom-mongers like your comments who are only too happy to knock Waterford and thats about all you contribute, negativity. the VT, quay looking much better, our tourism offer has increased dramatically, Kellys opening again, besco opening again, (Slow) progress on city square and newgate, some of Ireland's best festivals and besides all of that and more, the grass aint always greener.

FestyOSemtex

Cant post links so here is an article from the Irish Independent about B&L.

IF we lose Bausch and Lomb, we might as well close up Waterford city," came the warning from one concerned shop owner.


Outside the contact lens manufacturing facility in the heart of the IDA's sprawling industrial complex, the matter was being discussed in quiet whispers by fearful workers.

But in the heart of Waterford city the potential loss of 200 jobs was being loudly debated.

If hundreds of jobs were to go, and another 900 workers were to suffer deep pay cuts, then pubs, shops and cafes would be caught in the damaging ripple-effect.

Aisling Kelly from Tuckaway Coffee Shop, where people have been popping in for their famous scones for more than 33 years, voiced her concern.

"We're an industrial city and unfortunately we've lost an awful lot of money," she said.

"With Talk Talk going, the downfall from that was absolutely horrendous when that initially happened. The city basically came to a screeching halt."


Next door, Declan Conway from City Jewellers – a member of the city's business group – said they were already working hard to get the city back on its feet through council rate cuts and other measures.

Darryl Hale from the well-known family business Alfie Hale Sports shop described how traders struggled as they witnessed a dramatic fall-off in footfall in recent years.

"Going back to the Waterford Crystal closure, that was probably the start of it – but it just seems to be a downward spiral," he said.

"Waterford seems to be particularly badly hit. The last thing we need is more unemployment or pay cuts in the general area. There are quite a lot of vacant units in the town."

Inside in O'Flynn's family-run butchers, the next generation of the more than a century-old firm, Ben (24) was busily instructing a purchaser to core an apple to go along with her boiled ham.

"Even wage cuts make a huge difference – you'd notice that people would be getting less and less stuff," he said.

"I've a lot of friends who don't work and I've over a dozen friends who've left the country in the past two years."

Independent TD for Waterford, John Halligan, claimed almost 2,500 jobs at IDA Ireland-backed firms have been cut since 2008, with 500 created.

But the IDA stressed it was working "extremely hard" to inform companies of the financial supports on offer to locate in regional areas.

Waterford was anxiously waiting for word from ongoing talks, as it emerged that unions were set to table proposals to cut Bausch and Lomb workers' holidays and increase their hours in a bid to avoid a 20pc pay cut.

Concern

It also emerged Ireland's embassy in Washington has contacted US Democratic senator Charles Schumer to raise concerns over his call for the 1,100 jobs to be moved to New York.

Across the country, there was also growing concern in Westport as Bausch and Lomb's parent company, the Canadian Valeant Pharmaceuticals firm, bids to purchase major employer Allergen Pharmaceuticals.

Fine Gael TD John O'Mahony said there had been some "concern" following the potential job losses at the Waterford firm.

However, James O'Doherty from the Westport Chamber of Commerce insisted the jobs at Allergan were secure as it was in the midst of a €257m expansion.

Irish Independent

sparkling sea

It looks like coprorate raiding, push up the share prices, strip the cash and assets and sell it off to another lense manufacturer, but who knows, will apart from the Government and Siptu ??

A realistic plan needs to be put in place by the Government to tackle unemployment figures in Waterford.

FestyOSemtex

sparkling sea wrote: »

It looks like coprorate raiding, push up the share prices, strip the cash and assets and sell it off to another lense manufacturer, but who knows, will apart from the Government and Siptu ??

A realistic plan needs to be put in place by the Government to tackle unemployment figures in Waterford.

Thats called asset stripping. Eircom is a good example of that.

Hijpo

257 million euro expansion does not secure anything. B&L were due to expand and as far as I know even bought a big area of land to do so at the back of the plant. That james doherty needs to be kicked in the arse until his naivity is dislodged. The only thing secure in this country is big public service severance payments and large pensions that are not at all in line with the current economy.

sparkling sea

FestyOSemtex wrote: »

Thats called asset stripping. Eircom is a good example of that.

Seems abit Gordon Gekkoish, dont you think??

fiachr_a

Waterford politicians should have know 5 years ago that those jobs were on the way out when 500 were lost from the factory in Scotland.

JPA

fiachr_a wrote: »

Waterford politicians should have know 5 years ago that those jobs were on the way out when 500 were lost from the factory in Scotland.

And brought to Waterford....

Digital Society

Newsflash - Politicians don't have doctorates in Economics. Stop blaming them on everything.

There literally professional bull****ters.

JPA

Digital Society wrote: »

Newsflash - Politicians don't have doctorates in Economics. Stop blaming them on everything.

There literally professional bull****ters.

They probably should though...

Digital Society

JPA wrote: »

They probably should though...

People with doctorates in Economics wouldn't be dumb enough to go for it.

Not in this country anyway.

fiachr_a

Digital Society wrote: »

People with doctorates in Economics wouldn't be dumb enough to go for it.

Not in this country anyway.

That's because they've emigrated along with most highly-qualified people! All that's left here are the unemployed, students, disabled, public sector workers, and factory employees.

KevIRL

Rte reporting proposals accepted. Hopefully the workers sacrifices will mean the jobs remain here long term

Hijpo

KevIRL wrote: »

Rte reporting proposals accepted. Hopefully the workers sacrifices will mean the jobs remain here long term

TEEU vote tomorrow.

mooseknunkle

KevIRL wrote: »

Rte reporting proposals accepted. Hopefully the workers sacrifices will mean the jobs remain here long term

SIPTU workers have accepted it, TEEU workers are voting tomorrow from 6am.

skelligs

Not a huge paycut - some extra hours, a change to holidays and sick pay. Quite a good deal.

Remember a 7.5% pay cut on the top is about a 4% pay cut after tax if you are earning over 34k (assuming single allowance).

200 job losses remain, but with things picking up, there should be a decent number taking up redundancy.

padraig.od

skelligs wrote: »

Not a huge paycut - some extra hours, a change to holidays and sick pay. Quite a good deal.

Remember a 7.5% pay cut on the top is about a 4% pay cut after tax if you are earning over 34k (assuming single allowance).

200 job losses remain, but with things picking up, there should be a decent number taking up redundancy.

You are only seeing the headline figure. Including removal of the bonuses and the extra hour it works out about 14% gross IIRC. Not so bad if you factor in the higher rate of tax alright.

The TEEU could still scupper it. God knows what will happen if they reject it.

Hijpo

padraig.od wrote: »

You are only seeing the headline figure. Including removal of the bonuses and the extra hour it works out about 14% gross IIRC. Not so bad if you factor in the higher rate of tax alright.

The TEEU could still scupper it. God knows what will happen if they reject it.

Surely to christ people will stop saying waterford is militant after this?

Digital Society

Hijpo wrote: »

Surely to christ people will stop saying waterford is militant after this?

Nope. That generation ruined Waterford for many generations to come.

Just like Limerick was ruined by the name "Stab City". Theres no getting away from it no matter what happens. Always in the back of peoples minds. Forever and ever.

daaave

TEEU have accepted terms.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/teeu-members-accept-bausch-lomb-cost-cutting-deal-633718.html

mozattack

Still a good saving by the employer to be honest, they probably went in for 20% happy to "accept 7.5%"