Joan Burton to increase tax on the Rich

super_furry

Be much better off moving up the tax bands. The limit at which you start paying the highest rate in this country is criminal.

applehunter

The magic money tree is the problem in this country.

Those in the higher tax bracket are already paying their share.

nc19

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Why do you have upper ranges in each of your poll options Op? Doesn't really make sense.

Captain pedantic

diomed

Tax the other people.

Idbatterim

I was comparing my payslip in 2009 and now, was earning 3k more per year despite the fact my pay has been frozen...

super_furry

suicide_circus wrote: »

It really is genuinely gobsmacking when you see it written down, 52% on €32.5.....are they having a fooking laugh. The next budget needs tax relief for middle income workers (those who have actually born the brunt if austerity) not more freebies and certainly not more tax for us "rich".

That's the more interesting discussion for me, what is middle income? Certaintly don't think anyone on even €50k should be hitting the top rate.

Liamario

She's full of ****. Taxing the rich, while is a viable idea, isn't the cause of the problem nor why she hasn't a hope of getting into power in the next general election.
The fact that she has thrown this around, is a pathetic and hollow attempt to garner some support from the electorate.

jiminho

I'll believe it when I see it but as the OP said, at what point are you considered rich in this country? Also, what would the tax amount to? Maybe after 75k you get put on a 50% tax bracket which would mean in total, you'd be paying 65% in tax.....:eek:

Idbatterim

these insane rates and bear two things in mind, we have virtually no military expenditure and a relatively tiny elderly population i.e. pay out on pensions. I mention this because I am going to try and pull out rates for various different countries, very quickly I have found the below from bbc.co.uk

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26327114

But one important thing to consider when comparing the top rate levels of tax is the threshold where the rate kicks in, because the differences are massive.

"In the UK, the 45% top rate of tax kicks in at an income level of around $250,000 (£151,000) compared to Italy where the top rate of 43% comes in at $125,000," says Ben Wilkins, a tax partner at PWC.

Here it is for Germany from wikipedia, I am looking for the top rates and the threshold that they kick in at! Needless to say, they are all a multiple of here!

Income tax rate in 2010
No income tax is charged on the basic allowance, which is €8,004 for unmarried persons and €16,008 for jointly assessed married couples. Beyond this threshold, the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 14% to 24% for a taxable income of €13,469 (€26,938 for married couples). In the subsequent interval up to a taxable income of €52,881 (€105,762 for married couples), the marginal tax rate increases linearly from 24% to 42%. The last change of rates occurs at a taxable income of €250,730 (€501,460 for married couples) when the marginal tax rate jumps from 42% to 45%. The course of the marginal tax rate and the resulting average tax rate are depicted in the graph to the right.

Frank Lee Midere

I wonder if the people here would be a bit more sanguine if the actual rich were actually taxed. And that reduced the higher rate middle income taxes? It's what she is supposedly talking about.

Frynge

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah it is absolutely jaw dropping. For every thousand you earn over that amount, they want E520 of it? For what I am not sure.

E1000, they get E520, you get E480. F**cking great country we live in.

I would have no problem with giving €520 on every k, on condition that that was it. Having to then pay all the other tax's/charges on top of it makes it a problem.

Idbatterim

The magic money tree is the problem in this country.

Those in the higher tax bracket are already paying their share.

Personally I dont agree with that, they are carrying far more than their fair share! If we arent already there, at what point would they be carrying beyond their fair share?! When the bloody politicians come a knocking, they are going to get a bloody major piece of my mind, I suggest you do likewise. And not because of cuts or new taxes no, because I am being SCREWED so that those who have contributed nothing or very little can have their rants about "da rich" and "da bondholders" the ones Labour and pretty much every other party seems to bow to. Probably because you screw me a private sector worker, you lose one vote, keep welfare at inflated levels you might retain or win a multiple of that, at least you would have.

As a country that harps on about nothing but fairness, does anyone give a **** about the unfairness inflicted on marginal rate earners, do they f**k!

suicide_circus

Idbatterim wrote: »

Yeah it is absolutely jaw dropping. For every thousand you earn over that amount, they want E520 of it? For what I am not sure.

E1000, they get E520, you get E480. F**cking great country we live in.

do you know what, if we as working people actually got top class services - medical, educational, subsidised childcare for working parents, security, infrastructure, public transport - if all of these were top class and available to me, they could take 52% of my income, no questions asked.

But I don't. I pay for vhi because i dont want to die on a trolley, if i have kids myself or my partner will have to consider quitting work due to the prohibitively high cost of child care, if i call the gardai i can expect a 40 minute wait for them to arrive even though i live 5 mins walk form a station, I cant rely on public transport because the pricks are ready to go on strike at the drop of a hat. ANd wait til you see what the state pension is gonna look like by the time i'm 65...err.. i mean 85!
If the counrty is incapable of providing these things, fook off, let me save my own money and make my own arrangements.

MadYaker

suicide_circus wrote: »

do you know what, if we as working people actually got top class services - medical, educational, subsidised childcare for working parents, security, infrastructure, public transport - if all of these were top class and available to me, they could take 52% of my income, no questions asked.

But I don't. I pay for vhi because i dont want to die on a trolley, if i have kids myself or my partner will have to consider quitting work due to the prohibitively high cost of child care, if i call the gardai i can expect a 40 minute wait for them to arrive even though i live 5 mins walk form a station, I cant rely on public transport because the pricks are ready to go on strike at the drop of a hat. ANd wait til you see what the state pension is gonna look like by the time i'm 65...err.. i mean 85!
If the counrty is incapable of providing these things, fook off, let me save my own money and make my own arrangements.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. We are so deep in debt that this is going to continue for a very long time. Taxed to the hilt and getting nothing in return because it all goes to plug the deficit. Not sure what I'm going to do when I'm finished 3rd level but when I consider the fact that I'm going to be paying the price for other people's f*ck ups for a large chunk of my working career it really makes emigration look very tempting.

People say "ooooh tax the rich" but in reality the number of people who are earning over 300k or are millionaires is tiny in this country so greatly increasing taxes on them is going to make f*ck all difference. Especially when you consider many of the people earning this kind of money in the private sector are entrepreneurs (big business owners) who provide jobs and if the tax system here becomes unfavourable for them they will simply move their money and or businesses to another country.

Idbatterim

But I don't. I pay for vhi because i dont want to die on a trolley, if i have kids myself or my partner will have to consider quitting work due to the prohibitively high cost of child care, if i call the gardai i can expect a 40 minute wait for them to arrive even though i live 5 mins walk form a station, I cant rely on public transport because the pricks are ready to go on strike at the drop of a hat. ANd wait til you see what the state pension is gonna look like by the time i'm 65...err.. i mean 85!
If the counrty is incapable of providing these things, fook off, let me save my own money and make my own arrangements.

yeah, jaw dropping amounts of money spent running the country and a jaw droppingly poor return for it. Agreed, they can forget ramping up services and wanting me to pay for it, I'd prefer the money in my back pocket thank you very much.

tayto lover

My daughter spent 5 hours sitting in the hospital last week with her 9 year old son who broke his finger playing football.
All they were interested in was the 100 euro charge before he was even seen. It took 5 hours to get an x-ray and for the doctor to read it. Then 10 mins to put a splint on it. With all the taxes we pay this is crazy.
To think we had a minister saying he was fixing that service is very annoying.

Tail Docker

Lol at all the fevered rowing-back/out/forwards all of a rush. And they say protests don't work. Well, protest votes certainly do.

mezuzaj

tayto lover wrote: »

My daughter spent 5 hours sitting in the hospital last week with her 9 year old son who broke his finger playing football.
All they were interested in was the 100 euro charge before he was even seen. It took 5 hours to get an x-ray and for the doctor to read it. Then 10 mins to put a splint on it. With all the taxes we pay this is crazy.
To think we had a minister saying he was fixing that service is very annoying.

That is why people get VHI,.. so they can go to the fast track A&E clinics and be seen within an hour.

Mind you I have been to A&E with daughter who broke her leg and when the said he in pain (screaming) they had he x-rayed in 20 mins.

feargale

Reformed Character wrote: »

Joan the Moan,

What does it matter how she speaks? Judge her on her words and deeds.

beardy_brady

mezuzaj wrote: »

Thats True, if you have a billion in assets, you effective tax is small. If you have invested in shares, you only pay tax on the gains, when you sell or on dividends. The reality is that the Rich don't HAVE to sell, they choose when and how much income to take.

Also in Ireland the really rich are not that many, We don't have thousands of Multi millionaires. Dublin does not have a chelskey Russian Billionaire row.

buying irish shares is the most expensive in the western world , stamp duty is 1% upon purchase , its a half of one percent in germany , france , uk , no stamp duty in america on shares

tayto lover

mezuzaj wrote: »

That is why people get VHI,.. so they can go to the fast track A&E clinics and be seen within an hour.

Mind you I have been to A&E with daughter who broke her leg and when the said he in pain (screaming) they had he x-rayed in 20 mins.

Many people had VHI but had to drop it in order to continue paying their mortgage.

Frank Lee Midere

beardy_brady wrote: »

buying irish shares is the most expensive in the western world , stamp duty is 1% upon purchase , its a half of one percent in germany , france , uk , no stamp duty in america on shares

Extraordinary high tax.

ceadaoin.

46% of people taking this poll think that someone earning 100k and up is rich?

bigroad

ceadaoin. wrote: »

46% of people taking this poll think that someone earning 100k and up is rich?

To put it in context ,they are rich compared to someone on 20k.

Idbatterim

E58,869 that is your net pay on E100,000!

dark crystal

ceadaoin. wrote: »

46% of people taking this poll think that someone earning 100k and up is rich?

This surprises you?

That's almost 2k a week - Compared to what me and my partner earn, it's a bloody king's ransom!

jank

The top 10% pay 40% of the tax take, the next 10% pay 20% of the tax take. The bottom 10% pay something like .5% but sure 'taxing the rich' is an easy soundbite in populist Ireland.

Frank Lee Midere

jank wrote: »

The top 10% pay 40% of the tax take, the next 10% pay 20% of the tax take. The bottom 10% pay something like .5% but sure 'taxing the rich' is an easy soundbite in populist Ireland.

The top .1 % pay nothing.

Taxing the rich would be a fine thing.

ceadaoin.

dark crystal wrote: »

This surprises you?

That's almost 2k a week - Compared to what me and my partner earn, it's a bloody king's ransom!

bigroad wrote: »

To put it in context ,they are rich compared to someone on 20k.

So anyone earning more than you is loaded and should be taxed over half their income?! Sure that person on 20k is loaded compared to someone on 12k. Objectively speaking someone earning 100k is not rich. Yes it's a good salary but after taxes etc it's wouldn't exactly be enough to live a lavish lifestyle

dark crystal

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So anyone earning more than you is loaded and should be taxed over half their income?!

I don't know where you got all that from what I posted, tbh!

Sure that person on 20k is loaded compared to someone on 12k. Objectively speaking someone earning 100k is not rich. Yes it's a good salary but after taxes etc it's wouldn't exactly be enough to live a lavish lifestyle

In your opinion.

If I was earning 100k or more a year, I would consider myself rich, or at least very well off. That was the question posed in the OP was it not? You may not consider it a lot of money, but I do.

the_syco

By rich, does she mean those who donate to her party, or to the not very rich, who don't donate, but spend their free time supporting the party? I'm guessing the latter.

ceadaoin.

dark crystal wrote: »

I don't know where you got all that from what I posted, tbh!



In your opinion.

If I was earning 100k or more a year, I would consider myself rich, or at least very well off. That was the question posed in the OP was it not? You may not consider it a lot of money, but I do.

I didn't say I don't consider it a lot of money. Of course it is. I said its a good salary which I would love to earn tbh! You wouldn't be rich on it though. Well off yes, but not rich. A couple both earning the average salary would bring home more and they probably wouldn't be considered rich.

Sully

Interesting thread. Lots of people bemoaning her proposal as silly and unworkable. Which is true, but what intrigues me is the Sinn Fein economic policy has been founded on this exact idea and in other threads people are falling over each other to declare their support for them in their quest to an alternative approach to the way the government has done austerity.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

jank

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The top .1 % pay nothing.

Taxing the rich would be a fine thing.

Yes they do actually.

Arthur Beesley

How about we have the poor pay some income tax for a change?

All state benefits should be taxable.

I'm sick of bailing the poor out.

jank

Agreed with the above. Tax all benefits you get from the state. The more you benefit, the more you get taxed and there should be a maximum cap on what one household can get.
Lastly for people under 30, if you are not working or learning you don't get a cent.

porsche959

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

All state benefits should be taxable.

Bit pointless, no?

lee_baby_simms

I read this thread as 'Joey Barton to increase tax on the Rich'.

I need a coffee.

Caliden

Taxes have already hit diminishing returns which is shown by reduced consumer spending.

This talk of 'economy recovering' are just projections for the next 6 months, i.e. it hasn't happened yet.
People are spending less as they've less to spend.

Why not increase the lower tax threshold to 36k. More disposable income, more consumer spending, more VAT, mo' money.

Increasing taxes during a recession was pure idiotic.

dark crystal

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

How about we have the poor pay some income tax for a change?

All state benefits should be taxable.

I'm sick of bailing the poor out.

jank wrote: »

Agreed with the above. Tax all benefits you get from the state. The more you benefit, the more you get taxed and there should be a maximum cap on what one household can get.
Lastly for people under 30, if you are not working or learning you don't get a cent.

Define poor. Not all people on benefits are lazy scroungers who haven't seen a day's work in their lives.

The Celtic Tiger has changed Ireland in more ways than one. When I see posts like these, it reads more like something you'd hear on one of those awful FOX news shows in the US.

DeanAustin

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think it's disgusting that people who get up early to do an honest days work just to pay their mortgage and provide for their families are being targeted over and over again whilst you have people in this country who have never worked and have no intention of ever working with rent allowance, dole and child benefit, medical card among other things.

And I know someone will say "it's a minority". To be honest I don't give a fcuk if it's a minority. It is not right.

I am in an ok job with an ok wage stressed to bits to keep a roof over my head with mortgage, bills, medical and all the rest. I can literally go out once every 2 weeks for an hour for a drink.

The people around me in the pub a few weeks back, the 3 I know were on the dole (2 with rent allowance) - they seemingly had more expendable income that night than I did! And given their reputation and fondness for drink i'd say it's a fair bet they were having piss ups on Thursday and Friday night too.

Me you and every worker are paying for that and the 5 kids and all the rest.

It's soul destroying if you are even an average wage today.

It's just not right.

/rant

Well said. I've no problem with the dole and rent allowance being available. Any of us could find ourselves unemployed tomorrow and needing help.

However, I object to funding people who have no intention of ever working. Why should the rest of us pay massive taxes to help people who have no intention of helping themselves?

jank

dark crystal wrote: »

Define poor. Not all people on benefits are lazy scroungers who haven't seen a day's work in their lives.

The Celtic Tiger has changed Ireland in more ways than one. When I see posts like these, it reads more like something you'd hear on one of those awful FOX news shows in the US.

When I read posts like this then I think, no wonder Ireland is bankrupt.

mariaalice

That a great question who are the rich exactly? there is an a lot of someone else( but not us) will have to pay about the policies like that.

You will find you can not pin labour or people before profit or sinn fein down on this issue it always a case of someone else will have to pay.

Valetta

Most state benefits are taxable.

Most people receiving benefits, however do not receive enough to be over the tax free threshold.

Barely There

Burton's 'tax the rich' bolloxology is nothing more than the preliminary attempt to start winning back some of the votes Labour lost to the Shinners in the local elections.

It's meaningless in reality as there's no definition of who is 'rich' or how much extra tax she wants them to pay.

Labour have obviously seen that there's a certain percentage of voters (let's call them 'The Dumbasses') who will buy into a 'magic-beans' solution to our economic difficulties.

It depresses me that politics often becomes about pandering to the stupid.

folan

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The top .1 % pay nothing.

source?

Elmer Blooker

Good. Lets hope Joan B is next Labour leader and Tanaiste,
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056383599

muppetkiller

Also Child Benefit in this country is simply scandalous ! Why pay people to have children who cannot afford to raise them ?

Child benefit should only be given for the first two children and after that only as a tax benefit if you are actually working. If you want 10 kids then pay for them yourself :mad:

This country does everything it can to penalize the middle Income earner while giving no incentive for an unemployed family/person to find jobs. And make no mistake about it , it's the system that's the problem so lets not blame the unemployed. It's got to the stage now where it's stupid to take on a minimum wage job for all the benefits you lose.

I'm on holiday here with my Girlfriend in Hungary and all people on Welfare are out Cutting the Grass along the roads, Cleaning graffiti , Cutting down trees in the woods for Firewood etc ..If they don't turn up to do it for a certain number of days each week they don't get paid. We should have the same here.

mariaalice

Why o why does it always turn in to those on welfare rant rant.. and welfare bashing... and followed by get rid of child benefit its so predictable and derails what could be interesting debate on who are the rich.