How far is Roy Hodgson "Ow uv 'is Depft"?

Professional Griefer

Despite his goal Sturridge wasn't very impressive tonight, hope Barkley gets a goal.

Hulk Hands

Id start Milner and Lallana for the first game. The humidity in Maunas will be fierce, and wont suit a team with Sterling or Wellbeck. Ball retention will be key. Id also have Wilshire over Henderson for that reason (although I hope not as ive just spent two hours trying to get on Henderson to start the first game with books that never chopped the price)

Neeson

thelad95 wrote: »

Christ England have been poor tonight. If Peru can play like that against them what will Uruguay and Italy (not to mention the mighty Costa Rica) do?

The scoreline suggests otherwise. As Sunphy would say let the hype machine begin.

Soups123

Dreadful by Sterling, been poor enough since he came on

mike65

Johnson switched to the left back with Stones at RB. Its improved Glenjo already!

thelad95

Neeson wrote: »

The scoreline suggests otherwise. As Sunphy would say let the hype machine begin.

It's Peru. They're no world beaters. This is the lowest expectation I've ever had for England going into a World Cup.

Soups123

Neeson wrote: »

The scoreline suggests otherwise. As Sunphy would say let the hype machine begin.

Score line is very flattering two set piece goals. Although unfairness it's hardly a competitive game and is more about the run out

mike65

FT 3-0, nothing to write home about.

super_furry

Johnson is absolute muck, Rooney looks like he lost interest a couple of years ago, Gerrard is well past his best and England will be home before their postcards.

K4t

Wilshire needs to be included in the starying 11 somehow. He's too good to leave out when on form. Have a feeling he'll be rotated with Gerard when he ineitably tires in the group games though.

Welbeck and Lalanna did well tonight without doing anything spectacular which Sturridge always offers. Barkley and Sterling will make decent options from the bench but lack the maturity and composure for a starting role right now, especially the latter.

Chris Smalling is easily a better footballer and defender than Jagielka.

OnTheCouch

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Id start Milner and Lallana for the first game. The humidity in Maunas will be fierce, and wont suit a team with Sterling or Wellbeck. Ball retention will be key. Id also have Wilshire over Henderson for that reason (although I hope not as ive just spent two hours trying to get on Henderson to start the first game with books that never chopped the price)

Very good point, but should Hodgson go for it I can see the gutter press and sadly enough the general public being up in arms, especially should a negative result ensue.

Sterling is a player who gets the average fan on the edge of their seat; Milner, for all his obvious qualities, does not. I think there is something in human nature that is inextricably attracted to the maverick, certainly in comparison to the industrious, hard-working type. Even I wanted Ross Barkley to come on tonight far earlier than he did. In this respect, it's very hard for any manager at the highest level to get unanimous backing for his choices.

K4t

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Id start Milner and Lallana for the first game. The humidity in Maunas will be fierce, and wont suit a team with Sterling or Wellbeck. Ball retention will be key. Id also have Wilshire over Henderson for that reason

Sorry but Welbeck has exceptional ball retention skills which he has proved time and again at the highest level in the CL against Real last year and Bayern this season. His link up play is also on a higher level to Rooney and the rest of the England players. He rarely loses the ball in possession and always finds a teammate under pressure which is invaluable against quality opposition. Added to this he is also a great outlet for long balls over the top with his speed and strength.

Liamalone

K4t wrote: »

Chris Smalling is easily a better footballer and defender than Jagielka.

lol Smalling is not good, never has been since his move to United.

If Woy would play people in their proper positions they might actually play better, Sterling in the hole? Llanananana and Welbeck stuck out wide? Dear me

Fratton Fred

Looper007 wrote: »

I think they will be the shock package of the World Cup, they might do a Germany from 2010 World Cup, no one gave them a chance cause of all the youth in the squad and they stepped it up and got to the Semi's.

They have some great young talent, Sterling (I think this guy will be a World class talent), Sturridge (he needs to step up and prove he can be the man on the world stage), Wilshire (I hope he stays fit and proves the doubters wrong, I still pick him over Henderson any day of the week), OX Chamb (him and Sterling could take defences apart with their pace), Barkley (I do think this lad will come good), Shaw and good pro's in Baines, Rooney Gerrard and Lampard. They have a few dodgy players in Welbeck (hows this guy still playing for Utd).

I think the English press and English Tv Pundit's make you hate England more then the players themselves. Like it's their divine right to win the World Cup. Hodgson has kept the ego's in check. I think they get last 8 if they play to their best abilities but I wouldn't be surprised if they get to the semi's.

Sssshhhhhh.

Giving them a realistic chance will only increase the pressure.

Iused2likebusts

England cant keep the ball against decent teams.Id give them 50/50 on getting out of their group. If they make the quarters its been a good tournament for them. Then the excuses start wonder what they will go with this time?
1 We need a Winter Break
2 Too many foreigners in the PL
3 We need a foreign manager
4 Hodgson was too strict with the players they should have allowed the WAGs
5 Hodgson was too lax with the players they shouldnt have allowed the WAGs
6 The PL is so demanding so the players were tired
7 We need to practice penalties
Nick Collins has already said the spirit is great in the camp unlike previous tournaments. He has said the exact same thing before every tournament I can remember and then when they are knocked out he says you could sense something wasnt right.

Richard Hillman

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

England cant keep the ball against decent teams.Id give them 50/50 on getting out of their group. If they make the quarters its been a good tournament for them. Then the excuses start wonder what they will go with this time?
1 We need a Winter Break
2 Too many foreigners in the PL
3 We need a foreign manager
4 Hodgson was too strict with the players they should have allowed the WAGs
5 Hodgson was too lax with the players they shouldnt have allowed the WAGs
6 The PL is so demanding so the players were tired
7 We need to practice penalties
Nick Collins has already said the spirit is great in the camp unlike previous tournaments. He has said the exact same thing before every tournament I can remember and then when they are knocked out he says you could sense something wasnt right.

And every other team in international football gets knocked out and just say tally-hoe, we weren't good enough rather than thinking of ways to improve.

niallo27

K4t wrote: »

Wilshire needs to be included in the starying 11 somehow. He's too good to leave out when on form. Have a feeling he'll be rotated with Gerard when he ineitably tires in the group games though.

Welbeck and Lalanna did well tonight without doing anything spectacular which Sturridge always offers. Barkley and Sterling will make decent options from the bench but lack the maturity and composure for a starting role right now, especially the latter.

Chris Smalling is easily a better footballer and defender than Jagielka.

Wilshire is the most overrated player in years for England. Ramsey had completely overshadowed him at arsenal. If he is not injured he is complaining he is being played out of position. Has he ever had a big game for England

Utopia Parkway

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You would know you're a Pool fan

the one good season syndrome knows no limits

I think this WC might be slightly too early for Sterling but does anyone actually think Danny Welbeck is a better footballer than him? I would be shocked if they do to be honest.

Utopia Parkway

Liam O wrote: »

Welbeck and Sterling scored the same amount of goals this season even though Welbeck played far less and was on a far inferior team. That could have something to do with it but who knows.

That has about as much relevance as what a centre-half has scored as opposed to a central midfielder. They play completely different positions.

kryogen

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

That has about as much relevance as what a centre-half has scored as opposed to a central midfielder. They play completely different positions.

Not like it gives Welbeck much of an advantage, he was played as a striker he scored goals consistently, his most consistent run of scoring coming when both RVP and Rooney were out so he was actually played up front, he then played from wide left

Not sure how that is a whole lot different to where Sterling played

I am also certain you will be able to find people who think Welbeck is a better footballer then Sterling

Welbeck has everything in his game, he is a brilliant player, he has been poor in terms of finishing overall so far, but that is improving as evidenced by his conversion rate this year.

Iused2likebusts

Richard Hillman wrote: »

And every other team in international football gets knocked out and just say tally-hoe, we weren't good enough rather than thinking of ways to improve.

Just almost every excuse Ive heard over the last 20 odd years has made little or no sense. Most of the excuses end up being the exact opposite of what was suggested before. E.g. We need a foreign manager then next tournament we need an english manager. We need a strict manager sven was too lax then its capello is too strict we need someone more laid back. The wag excuse was my own personal favourite. The PL has no winter break and is a tough league is ridiculous meaning the players arrive tired at a tournament only seems to effect the english PL players all the foreign PL players seem to have no problem. The key problem is ball possession and style of play and apart from hoddle and venables at times the last 20 years despite the so called golden generation has shown up this problem.

Iused2likebusts

kryogen wrote: »

Not like it gives Welbeck much of an advantage, he was played as a striker he scored goals consistently, his most consistent run of scoring coming when both RVP and Rooney were out so he was actually played up front, he then played from wide left

Not sure how that is a whole lot different to where Sterling played

I am also certain you will be able to find people who think Welbeck is a better footballer then Sterling

Welbeck has everything in his game, he is a brilliant player, he has been poor in terms of finishing overall so far, but that is improving as evidenced by his conversion rate this year.

I think wellbeck has improved the past season but Im still not sure he will ever be good enough to be a guaranteed starter at Utd or any top 4 team in his favoured position. Both sterling and wellbeck are poor finishers particularly when they have time to think the thing in sterlings favour is his lack of experience. Wellbeck has been around 4/5 years at this stage. Wellbeck puts in a good shift and is a good squad player but I think if he wants to develop in his favoured position he will need to move and I could see him being very effective at a club outside the big guns. With regard to starting for england wellbeck has done quite well over the past couple of years with them and playing on the left is a decent option for them. I think Sterling has more potential but for now due to the way england set up wellbeck makes sense.

Rayne Wooney

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I think this WC might be slightly too early for Sterling but does anyone actually think Danny Welbeck is a better footballer than him? I would be shocked if they do to be honest.

Brilliant stuff, littered with ignorance

Tox56

Soups123 wrote: »

He is more effective off the bench still needs to improve his overall play to edge into starting 11 contention

He loses a lot of balls and against the better teams in the WC that will be a bigger problem

He can lift the team and crowd from the bench and for now that's were I would use him

Ox Chamberlain is perfect for that bench role, and he will perform it well. Welbeck is not a bad player but time and again last night, even when he looked to do something promising, there was no end product and he lost possession.

Lallana was the only starter to look somewhat threatening and that's because he took people on and made space for others. 60 mins with the solid Welbeck would be typical England, good but never really taking it to the opposition. They need Sterling on from the start, they're not going to win so they might as well give it a proper go

Richard Hillman

Iused2likebusts wrote: »

Just almost every excuse Ive heard over the last 20 odd years has made little or no sense. Most of the excuses end up being the exact opposite of what was suggested before. E.g. We need a foreign manager then next tournament we need an english manager. We need a strict manager sven was too lax then its capello is too strict we need someone more laid back. The wag excuse was my own personal favourite. The PL has no winter break and is a tough league is ridiculous meaning the players arrive tired at a tournament only seems to effect the english PL players all the foreign PL players seem to have no problem. The key problem is ball possession and style of play and apart from hoddle and venables at times the last 20 years despite the so called golden generation has shown up this problem.

You just pretty much repeated your original post.

And I will repeat, every team that gets knocked out of qualification or the tournament itself has some sort issue that they feel would have improved the team.

Corholio

These sort of threads always seem to elevate good but not great players to somehow being brilliant players. Welbeck is certainly not one, when he loses the ball like he does, he won't have the time to scramble after it and try and make up for it like he can against the likes of Peru, against better teams the ball will already be long gone up the field in their attack.

Looper007

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I think this WC might be slightly too early for Sterling but does anyone actually think Danny Welbeck is a better footballer than him? I would be shocked if they do to be honest.

my granny is a better footballer then Welbeck just cause he plays for utd doesn't mean he's a world beater. I never seen a striker who struggles to finish of chances more then this lad...oh wait I have Emilie Heskey.

Francie Barrett

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

I think this WC might be slightly too early for Sterling but does anyone actually think Danny Welbeck is a better footballer than him? I would be shocked if they do to be honest.

Would have Sterling any day of the week. He has the ability to change the game with his skill for England and should be a first name on the team sheet. Wouldn't even have Welbeck in the squad, very mediocre player.

Soft Falling Rain

Welbeck is a talented individual and I've said before that I'd like to see him start alongside Sturridge and Sterling. I think he fits with them better than Rooney does and if Roy had the bottle he'd make the change, but he doesn't.

Muahahaha

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Id start Milner and Lallana for the first game. The humidity in Maunas will be fierce, and wont suit a team with Sterling or Wellbeck. Ball retention will be key. Id also have Wilshire over Henderson for that reason (although I hope not as ive just spent two hours trying to get on Henderson to start the first game with books that never chopped the price)

Given Sterling was born in Jamacia I'd say he'll handle the humidity of Manaus a lot better than Lallana, Sterling will run all day when others around him are suffering.

delaad

Probably, in the light of events, I should have titled this thread, 'How far is the English Football Media "Ow uv its Depft?"', seeing as R Hodgson was always going to pick its preferred team.

bucketybuck

delaad wrote: »

seeing as R Hodgson was always going to pick its preferred team.

That will be the hipster version of events, but the fact is it didn't matter what variation of players Hodgson picked, England were never going to do any better than they did.

He could have dropped Rooney and played Lallana, dropped Gerrard and played Wilshire, dropped whoever and picked whoever but the fact remains, England just aren't good enough and there was nothing Hodgson could do about it.

Matt_Trakker

Washington Irving wrote: »

England are going to win the World Cup. Bookmark this post.

If you wrote this in 1965 I might have believed you.

rob316

Danny Welbeck couldn't even get into a team that finished 7th and he starts both games, baffling. John Terry should of been begged out of retirement by far England's best defender. Ashley Cole should have been in the squad as you could see baines was out if his depth quickly.

Glen johnson is another player who shouldn't have been near the squad.

Barkley should have been on much sooner in both games.

I got the feeling he picked the midfield combo of Henderson and Gerrard because liverpool did so well with it without actually knowing how to set it up properly. Gerrard can not play as a cm he isn't good enough.

Wayne Rooney. Play him where you want to play him or drop him simple as. Stop trying to squeeze him into a team. No fan of him but Honestly I feel a bit sorry for him he's only 28 but I think he should retire from international football, all the hopes are placed on him when no one knows where to play him.

Roy Hodgson once again shown he is utterly out of his depth at this level and should stick to performing midtable miracles with relegation fodder.

bucketybuck

rob316 wrote: »

Danny Welbeck couldn't even get into a team that finished 7th and he starts both games, baffling. John Terry should of been begged out of retirement by far England's best defender. Ashley Cole should have been in the squad as you could see baines was out if his depth quickly.

Glen johnson is another player who shouldn't have been near the squad.

This is the sort of rubbish I'm talking about, all hindsight and used as a stick to beat Hodgson when it would have been no different had Alex Fergusen been in charge.

Ashley Cole? Many, many people lauded Hodgson pre-world cup for making that choice, and he would have been pilloried if he hadn't started with Baines. Don't forget Cole isn't even a starter for his club any more, and more importantly Cole would not have made a blind bit of difference to that performance.

John Terry? He is retired from international football for gods sake, may as well have begged Scholes to come back. A player retires and thats Hodgsons fault?

Glen Johnson is rubbish yes, but who else was there? Phil Jones and Chris Smalling? Walker? Don't make me laugh. The Wellbeck choice, you really think Lallana or Milner were going to do any better? Like **** they would. Even the midfield, Englands biggest problem with Gerrard doing nothing, what options did he have? Carrick? Gareth Barry?

Its not like Hodgson was leaving good players at home, he just had **** options to choose from.

Oranage2

The fact that Henderson and Welbeck started tells you all you need to know about the current English team!

Moneymaker

Liverpool fans: Hodgson is crap and out of his depth
Everyone else: He doesn't have the players and Alex Ferguson couldn't make that side a winning side.

Hm.

Personally I think the answer lies somewhere in between.

Nuri Sahin

Moneymaker wrote: »

Liverpool fans: Hodgson is crap and out of his depth
Everyone else: He doesn't have the players and Alex Ferguson couldn't make that side a winning side.

Hm.

Personally I think the answer lies somewhere in between.

He's a good manager at the right level simple as that. Is that level England with the current crop of exciting talent in which he can help develop and get the best of in the likes Sterling, Ox, Shaw, etc? No.

smileyj1987

Oranage2 wrote: »

The fact that Henderson and Welbeck started tells you all you need to know about the current English team!

Henderson had a great season and deserved his place in the team . There are very players in the England set up like him that can run for 90 minutes and then do another 90 minutes after that if you asked him .
Welbeck is the only player who shouldn't have got a game . If a team finishes in 7th and he isn't a regular then it says it all to me .

Paul Tergat

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Henderson had a great season and deserved his place in the team . There are very players in the England set up like him that can run for 90 minutes and then do another 90 minutes after that if you asked him .
Welbeck is the only player who shouldn't have got a game . If a team finishes in 7th and he isn't a regular then it says it all to me .

It seems this is being made out to be a good thing. We need better than someone running around.

I still can't believe that we are playing with only 2 in midfield. Even with 3 the quality of say Italy is still way better than any 3 we could put together.

Henderson and Gerrard are limited enough as it is without being the only 2. Then when you add to that in the first game its decided to play 2 strikers as wingers we had no chance.

Turtyturd

Paul Tergat wrote: »

It seems this is being made out to be a good thing. We need better than someone running around.

.

Yep Henderson, while being much improved last season offers very little beyond that. He can't tackle and offers very little attacking threat bar the occasional pass. The reason he looks good for Liverpool is because the other midfield players do these things while he harries players. Playing him and Gerrard in midfield was always going to be a disaster, and Welbeck should have been dropped for Barkley/Lallana.

smileyj1987

Paul Tergat wrote: »

It seems this is being made out to be a good thing. We need better than someone running around.

I still can't believe that we are playing with only 2 in midfield. Even with 3 the quality of say Italy is still way better than any 3 we could put together.

Henderson and Gerrard are limited enough as it is without being the only 2. Then when you add to that in the first game its decided to play 2 strikers as wingers we had no chance.

With the way the modern game is you really do need a utility player on the pitch who willl hound and chase players around for 90 mins.
If Henderson is chasing someone around and they loose possession it could easily set up a very swift and goal scoring counter attack .
To get the best out of Henderson you need to let him roam around the pitch for 90 mins. covering and helping players who need protection .

super_furry

What has Hodgson ever done in his career to get a job like the England one? Everytime he's been asked to step up above the Fulham/West Brom level he's failed and really the only reason he's England manager now is because he's English and not Harry Redknapp.

vidor

smileyj1987 wrote: »

With the way the modern game is you really do need a utility player on the pitch who willl hound and chase players around for 90 mins.

Italy don't have that type of player.

Paul Tergat

smileyj1987 wrote: »

With the way the modern game is you really do need a utility player on the pitch who willl hound and chase players around for 90 mins.
If Henderson is chasing someone around and they loose possession it could easily set up a very swift and goal scoring counter attack .
To get the best out of Henderson you need to let him roam around the pitch for 90 mins. covering and helping players who need protection .

I think there are 2 points here:

1. It doesnt have to be someone who exclusively runs around. the team as a whole can press. Its no use having one guy pressing one player if everyone else cant do it. the better players will just pop a pass to a team mate and then its wasted energy. Ideally, you want someone who is able to press and also use the ball effectively. I don't think Henderson can do that.

2. It REALLY doesn't work in a 2 man midfield with one other player who doesnt have the legs to get around. Let one roam and the other is isolated, usually then facing 2 other CM's and a deep number 10.

Playing with these sorts of players means we have no chance in having decent spells of possession.

peabutler

Ross Barkley should never ever ever in a million years started for England in this World Cup, it's ridiculous to even suggest, he showed considerable promise this season and had some very good games but he also had some very very poor games and was rightly dropped by Martinez for a while during the season, the idea that he than should have started essentially on the wing for England is crazy.

Umadbrah?

Washington Irving wrote: »

England are going to win the World Cup. Bookmark this post.

Really?:o

Washington Irving

Umadbrah? wrote: »

Really?:o

Yes. Still gonna happen.

taidghbaby

Paul Tergat wrote: »

I think there are 2 points here:

1. It doesnt have to be someone who exclusively runs around. the team as a whole can press. Its no use having one guy pressing one player if everyone else cant do it. the better players will just pop a pass to a team mate and then its wasted energy. Ideally, you want someone who is able to press and also use the ball effectively. I don't think Henderson can do that.

2. It REALLY doesn't work in a 2 man midfield with one other player who doesnt have the legs to get around. Let one roam and the other is isolated, usually then facing 2 other CM's and a deep number 10.

Playing with these sorts of players means we have no chance in having decent spells of possession.

Yes, it is crazy at international level for one or two players to be chasing the ball on their own! The quality of the opposition on the ball, and the quality of the movement of players off the ball, will mean you end up with players running around like headless chickens!

Henderson's role at Liverpool can be productive because the ability of the opposition in possession is nowhere near that of international players!

Whether England push on and play a pressing game or if they sit back and invite the opposition on to them, they need to do it as a unit! You can't have half the team pushing on and the other half sitting as you will get passed through too easily by good opposition!

mike65

FA issue statement through Greg Dyke to say Roy Hodgson will see out his term of four years.