How far is Roy Hodgson "Ow uv 'is Depft"?

efb

BBC: Greg Dyke says Hodgson is staying Til 2016

efb

I wouldn't blame Hodgson the talent isn't there anyway

Chucky the tree

efb wrote: »

I wouldn't blame Hodgson the talent isn't there anyway

Is the talent there with Costa Rica?

efb

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Is the talent there with Costa Rica?

The players desire is stronger. English players have lost it. Not Hogsons fault

Chucky the tree

efb wrote: »

The players desire is stronger. English players have lost it. Not Hogsons fault

Every English player has lost the desire so? Come on. Desire comes from the manager. If it's not there then don't pick players who aren't arsed.

mike65

efb wrote: »

I wouldn't blame Hodgson the talent isn't there anyway

Pfft. the primary talent deficit is that of the manager. Footballing Nitrazepam in human form

efb

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Every English player has lost the desire so? Come on. Desire comes from the manager. If it's not there then don't pick players who aren't arsed.

It's not that simple

DM_7

mike65 wrote: »

FA issue statement through Greg Dyke to say Roy Hodgson will see out his term of four years.

I am surprised.

Fair play to Hodgson for having the guts to bring some of the young lads over senior players but the guy put his team on the back foot with team selection and set up so I don't see what he is suddenly going to change on that side.

DM_7

efb wrote: »

It's not that simple

Same can be said for the not enough desire suggestion.

EyeSight

I think he should be allowed to stay on. Give him time.

IMO both him and the players are too safe. The media and fans jumping on every mistake is a big factor here. As much as I think Rio talks a lot of crap, he said a few years back that most of the players are too afraid of making a gaffe so they try to stay in the background a lot.
Roy made a ballsy move with some of his squad picks, but was too safe with his team picks.
Other countries, really get behind their team. Even if they're terrible or someone makes a mistake, they get a heros welcome(Maybe not spain this time, we'll see). But the likes of the Sun makes sure that every player is hung for their mistakes in England. Which is funny because they're usually so behind the team building hype before the thing starts!

Boom__Boom

mike65 wrote: »

FA issue statement through Greg Dyke to say Roy Hodgson will see out his term of four years.

What happens if Costa Rica put 5 past them the next day?

Unlikely I know, but just like the FA to needlessly offer a hostage to fortune.

Sir Gallagher

Roy's just lucky he isn't a foreigner.

Boom__Boom

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

Roy's just lucky he isn't a foreigner.

If he was a foreigner he wouldnt have gotten the job in the first place.

mike65

Looking back over his career is there a single period in which he has excelled, just one I reckon - taking Fulham to the EL final against Atletico Madrid and not being disgraced in defeat. That side, like all his sides was pure meat and potatoes but they worked hard and in the central defence and keeper they happened to have three players who were at the top of their game during that season. In decades of coaching Hodgson has only ever had one idea, one vision and has applied it to a wide variety of teams in several different countries. The result has been the same every time - underachieving with bigger sides outside of Malmo FF in Sweden, safe and slightly improving with smaller ones.

There has never been a great leap forward, no breakthroughs. That won't start now.

niallo27

The World Cup has lot a bit of its excitement for me now that are England are out.

McGrath5

niallo27 wrote: »

The World Cup has lot a bit of its excitement for me now that are England are out.

I think if your looking to England for excitement, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

shamrock55

Liverpool fans know what roy is like, the man is a disaster,he never has a game plan, doesnt know his best team, doesnt know players best positions and is tactically inept, nice guy though:rolleyes:

Pilsbury Doughboy

kryogen wrote: »

Not like it gives Welbeck much of an advantage, he was played as a striker he scored goals consistently, his most consistent run of scoring coming when both RVP and Rooney were out so he was actually played up front, he then played from wide left

Not sure how that is a whole lot different to where Sterling played

I am also certain you will be able to find people who think Welbeck is a better footballer then Sterling

Welbeck has everything in his game, he is a brilliant player, he has been poor in terms of finishing overall so far, but that is improving as evidenced by his conversion rate this year.

That's a sentence I thought I would never see!

The next bit says he has been poor in his finishing overall, but he's a striker so what exactly makes him a brilliant player?

He's an ok player, looks very donkish alot of the time, I'm sure he could do ok for a mid to lower PL team, but if he stays and plays at united for the next couple of years I would be amazed and delighted because he's just not good enough.

fryup

compared to how dire they were in 2010 when Copello was in charge, i think England performed much better this time around

so i wouldn't be too hard on Hodgson

blueser

Spotted on a forum I post on in blighty;

''He has all the demeanour of a low-ranking civil servant and not surpisingly sets up his teams to perform with all the swagger of a low-ranking civil servant.
His apologists repeatedly tell us that he's "a decent man" and "a true football man", as if these attributes were rare and outstanding virtues rather than fundamental pre-requisites for the position he holds.
In truth, he's in the job because he's the safest option amongst a hoarde of spivs, chancers and assorted bumblefcuks. He won't get caught kerb crawling, fiddling the Inland Revenue or snorting coke with a fake sheikh from the Daily Scum. He'll turn up on time with a world-weary smile and a likeable, avuncular disposotion. Sure, he'll do nothing to excite the fans but, perhaps more importantly to the FA at this point in its evolution, neither will he disturb the sponsors.
So Wembley gets paid for and the blazers can still have the surf and turf washed down with a surprisingly decent local pinot grigio at that week long FIFA conference in Mauritius, whilst of course bemoaning Thatcherites selling off all those playing fields, thirty years ago and grumbling that there are far too many greasy Johnny Foreigner types in the Premier League, playing rings around stand up chaps like Squadron Leader Scotty Parker and Stevie Me.
In a sane world, Roy Hodgson would never have got within an ass's roar of the England manager's job but this is not a sane world. This is the FA's world where sanity laughed itself all the way to the puzzle factory, yonks ago. These are the self-perpetuating guardians of the game who'd arrange FA Cup Finals at midnight on a wet Wednesday in Mogadishu, if they thought it made them more money and they could pass it off as being a politically correct thing to do.
Hodgson's job is safe because Hodgson himself is safe. It's a clear case of the bland leading the bland. There's no other reasonable explanation for his appointment in the first place. The question shouldn't be should Hodgson go; the question ought to be should England finally just give up the pretence and tog out in beige''.

wazky

Washington Irving wrote: »

England are going to win the World Cup. Bookmark this post.

Hello?

Call Me Jimmy

Is it me you're looking for?

blueser

I can see it in your eyes....

efb

I can see it in your smile

OwaynOTT

'Cause I'm dancing on the ceiling'

Cienciano

fryup wrote: »

compared to how dire they were in 2010 when Copello was in charge, i think England performed much better this time around

so i wouldn't be too hard on Hodgson

If they kept Capello on, england would more than likely still be in the world cup and be one of the favourites.

Piliger

Hodgson cannot blamed. he did a good job with the players that he had to chose from.

People people people ...

Anyone know cricket ? Well there are two types of cricket. Test Cricket and Limited Overs Cricket. Rugby ? Sevens and 15 a side. Remember the saying 'different horses for different courses' ? Great sevens players and not great 15 a side players. Same ball ... different game.

In soccer there are two kinds of game.
1. Mad crazy entertaining and exciting Premier League
2. Continental and International football.

Same ball ... different game.

The players and skills that England create are bred from the beginning to play the kind of crazy, mad and entertaining game that the Premiership, the Football League and lower leagues play and that English people love.

They need to STOP being surprised that their players cannot play a different version of the game.

They will NEVER EVER success in a major international tournament because it is a DIFFERENT GAME ! and in England they have engaged in a "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" attitude to this whole topic.

If the fans want England to ever ever win anything again, and if the FA want England to ever ever win anything again then this has to change.

I am sick to fcuking death of people talking about the foreign players in the PL. It has NOTHING to do with the issue.

EyeSight

Piliger wrote: »

Hodgson cannot blamed. he did a good job with the players that he had to chose from.

People people people ...

Anyone know cricket ? Well there are two types of cricket. Test Cricket and Limited Overs Cricket. Rugby ? Sevens and 15 a side. Remember the saying 'different horses for different courses' ? Great sevens players and not great 15 a side players. Same ball ... different game.

In soccer there are two kinds of game.
1. Mad crazy entertaining and exciting Premier League
2. Continental and International football.

Same ball ... different game.

The players and skills that England create are bred from the beginning to play the kind of crazy, mad and entertaining game that the Premiership, the Football League and lower leagues play and that English people love.

They need to STOP being surprised that their players cannot play a different version of the game.

They will NEVER EVER success in a major international tournament because it is a DIFFERENT GAME ! and in England they have engaged in a "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" attitude to this whole topic.

If the fans want England to ever ever win anything again, and if the FA want England to ever ever win anything again then this has to change.

I am sick to fcuking death of people talking about the foreign players in the PL. It has NOTHING to do with the issue.

Couldn't you say that about most of the European teams?

I do agree with your last point about foreign players in the EPL. If they keep up their xenophobic rules, the EPL will lose a lot of its flair

augustus gloop

in a funny twist, it looks like sky and roman abromovich have accelerated Englands demise, with so much money in the EPL young English players do not get the time to develop into top level players, teams have to buy in forigen players as managers jobs are in doubt straight away. The FA have to seriously look at home grown caps on squads.

blueser

augustus gloop wrote: »

in a funny twist, it looks like sky and roman abromovich have accelerated Englands demise, with so much money in the EPL young English players do not get the time to develop into top level players, teams have to buy in forigen players as managers jobs are in doubt straight away. The FA have to seriously look at home grown caps on squads.

Well; EU employment law would probably put the mockers on that as far as other EU nationals are concerned. And I would guess that that would be a fairly large portion of ''non English'' players in the PL. You'd then be left with (mainly) North/South Americans and Africans with the odd Asian/Australasian as well. And I'm not sure how FIFA would react to such a measure re. those players.

Zico

blueser wrote: »

Well; EU employment law would probably put the mockers on that as far as other EU nationals are concerned.

Britain could be out of the EU soon.

I'm surprised UKIP haven't jumped all over this. "Bloody foreigners have ruined the Ingerlund team"

daRobot

Zico wrote: »

Britain could be out of the EU soon.

I'm surprised UKIP haven't jumped all over this. "Bloody foreigners have ruined the Ingerlund team"

Hope not, It'd be a disaster for Ireland if so.

egghead.

augustus gloop wrote: »

in a funny twist, it looks like sky and roman abromovich have accelerated Englands demise, with so much money in the EPL young English players do not get the time to develop into top level players, teams have to buy in forigen players as managers jobs are in doubt straight away. The FA have to seriously look at home grown caps on squads.

Yes because they were winning so many tournaments before abromavich and those bloody foreigners came in and ruined the national team.

If a player is good enough they will make it no matter what.

nice_guy80

daRobot wrote: »

Hope not, It'd be a disaster for Ireland if so.

we should follow them

Piliger

EyeSight wrote: »

Couldn't you say that about most of the European teams?

In soccer there are two kinds of game.
1. Mad crazy entertaining and exciting Premier League
2. Continental and International football.

European teams mostly play 'Continental football'. They keep possession and probe and play some variation of slow slow fast slow. They are brought up fro small boys to play that style of football and from an early age they get rewarded by being picked in teams for those skills.

In England when boys are small the ones that are skilful are bumped in favour of bigger physical lads who can dominate and hoof the ball and shoot. Same here. When certain kinds of skills are weeded out by the time these lads get to 12 and 13, then the whole shape of football in the leagues is predetermined and doubly reinforced by the demands of the fans who prefer the kind of football that they see in England. Mad crazy exciting games, frenetic end to end stuff.

Rayne Wooney

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think they won't make it out of the group stages

And I completely forgot to bet on it


Also was Welbeck not one of England's best players over the last two years or am I misremembering?

Aenaes

He was second top scorer for England under Hodgson too.

Ulysses Gaze

augustus gloop wrote: »

in a funny twist, it looks like sky and roman abromovich have accelerated Englands demise, with so much money in the EPL young English players do not get the time to develop into top level players, teams have to buy in forigen players as managers jobs are in doubt straight away. The FA have to seriously look at home grown caps on squads.

I disagree.

Even in the 1970's and 1980's, when English clubs were dominating European Club Competitions, and chock full of Englishmen, their National football team were pants.

OwaynOTT

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I disagree.

Even in the 1970's and 1980's, when English clubs were dominating European Club Competitions, and chock full of Englishmen, their National football team were pants.

Best players were all Scottish, Irish and welsh.

Piliger

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I disagree.

Even in the 1970's and 1980's, when English clubs were dominating European Club Competitions, and chock full of Englishmen, their National football team were pants.

Except they weren't. And in 1970 their national team was extremely good btw.

Ulysses Gaze

Piliger wrote: »

Except they weren't. And in 1970 their national team was extremely good btw.

I did say 1970's and 1980's.

They were so good they didn't qualify for the 1974 or 1978 World Cups and the 1972 and 1976 European Championships.

Plus, I guess I dreamed that Liverpool won 4 European Cups between 1977 and 1984, that Forest won 2 in 1979 & 1980 and that Villa won another in 1982....

efb

egghead. wrote: »

Yes because they were winning so many tournaments before abromavich and those bloody foreigners came in and ruined the national team.

If a player is good enough they will make it no matter what.

Will they be allowed time to develop? Success has to be instant now.

Pro. F

Pro. F wrote: »

He's no more out of his depth than the majority of English managers would be. England will keep banging their heads against the same brick wall forever unless a manager with true quality comes in and shows them how to make better use of the players they have.

Problem for me in English football is more bottom up rather than top down. You have great kids with natural flair and they are stifled by idiot coaches more focused on winning. They have robots made of the players and as a result they end up at the very top of the game with the media giving them unrealistic appraisal and their clubs overvaluing their abilities.

Piliger

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I did say 1970's and 1980's.

They were so good they didn't qualify for the 1974 or 1978 World Cups and the 1972 and 1976 European Championships.

Plus, I guess I dreamed that Liverpool won 4 European Cups between 1977 and 1984, that Forest won 2 in 1979 & 1980 and that Villa won another in 1982....

One of the big reason why Liverpool were so successful against Continental teams was that they were able to play the continental game. They had lots of non English players to do it with, and the first division was played in a different style back then.

And I don't really know what point you're trying to make anyway .. ? that things used to be different yes they used to be different. But now they are as they are and unless they can learn to play International football they are fcuked.

Reekwind

Every other top European nation (with the exception of Italy) has revolutionised/modernised their youth coaching structures and reaped the benefits of increased numbers of technically accomplished players. England needs to follow suit. Everyone in England knows this (and it's the same discussion every two years) but the FA is unable or unwilling to foist a proper national development programme on the Premier League.

gormdubhgorm

I think this thread is very unfair on Roy Hodgson. He can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
1 It was a difficult group
2 They gave it a good rattle in the two games
3 This England team are not world beaters - despite the brainwashing attempts of sky sports, BBC and ITV saying the premier league is the best league in the world.

Also there are a number of things going against England:

England's style of football is crash, bang, wallop 90 mile an hour. Keeping the ball might be an idea in extreme heat

They do not have any players playing outside of England/Scotland.

gormdubhgorm

Reekwind wrote: »

Every other top European nation (with the exception of Italy) has revolutionised/modernised their youth coaching structures and reaped the benefits of increased numbers of technically accomplished players. England needs to follow suit. Everyone in England knows this (and it's the same discussion every two years) but the FA is unable or unwilling to foist a proper national development programme on the Premier League.

This is always said. You can probably reuse this quote like an old Christmas Card because they won't change.

Adamocovic

People saying a lot about players skill levels, all the players in that English side are playing for big clubs in England which is one of the most competitive leagues in the world. The quality isn't an issue. Look at the likes of Ecuador, Chile, Costa Rica, Mexico , Croatia, Columbia etc etc etc. Teams that perform well together but not every player is a household name or big player. The amount of players on the English team that are world wide known is huge in comparison. England played good football but sloppy mistakes cost them and throwing away chances too. In my view it seems the players don't have the pride or passion playing for England as other nations players seem to do. It was a tough group, but honestly they should have gone through. Every tournament it's the same with England. A lot players with huge quality who fail to achieve anything.

In Hodgsons defense, injuries to Townsend, Walcott and Chamberlain were possibly significant in terms of attacking options and Jay Rodriguez is another player who was in good form all year who could have been an option from the bench.

Mordun

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I think this thread is very unfair on Roy Hodgson. He can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
1 It was a difficult group
2 They gave it a good rattle in the two games
3 This England team are not world beaters - despite the brainwashing attempts of sky sports, BBC and ITV saying the premier league is the best league in the world.

Also there are a number of things going against England:

England's style of football is crash, bang, wallop 90 mile an hour. Keeping the ball might be an idea in extreme heat

They do not have any players playing outside of England/Scotland.

They have one of the best squads in the world cup, a good manager should be able to do better than what we have seen thus far.