How far is Roy Hodgson "Ow uv 'is Depft"?

efb

Mordun wrote: »

They have one of the best squads in the world cup, a good manager should be able to do better than what we have seen thus far.

Do they really though? Is it more we know them better than most squads, but are they better?

Reekwind

Mordun wrote: »

They have one of the best squads in the world cup, a good manager should be able to do better than what we have seen thus far.

Really? Gerrard is the best holding midfielder in the world, the Cahill-Jagielka partnership is solid as a rock and Welbeck would walk into any other team in the tournament?

Ulysses Gaze

Reekwind wrote: »

Really? Gerrard is the best holding midfielder in the world, the Cahill-Jagielka partnership is solid as a rock and Welbeck would walk into any other team in the tournament?

Not to mention Baines & Henderson...

efb

And Super Shot Stopper, who's head and shoulders above his competitors...

Looper007

efb wrote: »

Do they really though? Is it more we know them better than most squads, but are they better?

When they have the best league in the world in my opinion, yet can't call on a world class striker or any world class players it's a clear sign the F.A need to get their finger out and sort out this youth system.

I think he picked the wrong players, Gerrard as much as I respect him shouldn't be in the first 11, he was useless in the two games and I laugh when Hoddle in an interview begged Gerrard not to retire :pac:. Henderson isn't much better and Welbeck god help us if he's their best. Their Centre backs aren't great either.

They have some great youth talent but they clearly need to find the right system and go out and play like as Giles said "they would kill their Granny". Next world Cup I expect them to be a better squad.

gormdubhgorm

Reekwind wrote: »

Really? Gerrard is the best holding midfielder in the world, the Cahill-Jagielka partnership is solid as a rock and Welbeck would walk into any other team in the tournament?

I know you are been sarcastic, But This is exactly what I meant by brainwashing. Gerarard is NOT the best holding midfielder in the world. He is not even the best holding midfielder in liverpool lucas is!

Henderson is a limited player no creativity. Welbeck is a plodder you gets stage fright near goal.
Cahill and Jagelika are NOT as solid as a rock!:eek:

But there are people who are brainwashed to think the opposite. It is kind of like a cult system if some people are told something enough they will believe it.

GreeBo

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I know you are been sarcastic, But This is exactly what I meant by brainwashing. Gerarard is NOT the best holding midfielder in the world. He is not even the best holding midfielder in liverpool lucas is!

Henderson is a limited player no creativity. Welbeck is a plodder you gets stage fright near goal.
Cahill and Jagelika are NOT as solid as a rock!:eek:

But there are people who are brainwashed to think the opposite. It is kind of like a cult system if some people are told something enough they will believe it.

erm I think that was exactly his point?!

<edit>

defeated by Ninja Edit!

Colonialboy

Hodgson :
He picked a great squad, but picked a crap team.
He didnt know what his starting 11 was.
He didnt know what his best formation was.
He didnt have a plan that was tailored to the opposition.

England will never succeed cos the football team and FA is representative of how English society is run.
They still have the 'Class System' , you play for a big club your in the team, the FA is full of stuffed shirts who wont upset the dinner table , and old has beens who just hang around until they get their knighthood for services to football.

Their football punditry is like dishwater, no passion not truth no edge, same as their football.

PL is a great league.
I feel sorry for the genuine English football fan they they have been let down time and time again by their FA, manager, player and media.
But to some degree you sow what you reap so even the fan has to take some blame.

Anyways great to see some great football in Brasil, been some cracking matches.

gormdubhgorm

GreeBo wrote: »

erm I think that was exactly his point?!

I know to use English soccer cliches it was a post of two halves because early doors I thought he was serious.
Then I realized the poster wasn't serious so I had to edit it and it all went pear-shaped!
Credit to him at end of the day.

gormdubhgorm

Colonialboy wrote: »

Hodgson :
He picked a great squad, but picked a crap team.
He didnt know what his starting 11 was.
He didnt know what his best formation was.
He didnt have a plan that was tailored to the opposition.

England will never succeed cos the football team and FA is representative of how English society is run.
They still have the 'Class System' , you play for a big club your in the team, the FA is full of stuffed shirts who wont upset the dinner table , and old has beens who just hang around until they get their knighthood for services to football.

Their football punditry is like dishwater, no passion not truth no edge, same as their football.

PL is a great league.
I feel sorry for the genuine English football fan they they have been let down time and time again by their FA, manager, player and media.
But to some degree you sow what you reap so even the fan has to take some blame.

Anyways great to see some great football in Brasil, been some cracking matches.

At the very least after this tournament people will be spelling Brazil the way cooler Portuguese way Brasil! Maybe this tournament will have an after effect on old stagnant football cultures like England too?

The only thing the English Soccer fans are lucky about is that they are not Irish soccer fans!

Francie Barrett

I see Woy is going to play Lampard and make him captain for their last game.

What is the point of that!?

Pro. F

Deleted User wrote: »

Problem for me in English football is more bottom up rather than top down. You have great kids with natural flair and they are stifled by idiot coaches more focused on winning. They have robots made of the players and as a result they end up at the very top of the game with the media giving them unrealistic appraisal and their clubs overvaluing their abilities.

I agree that that is a significant problem. Although to be fair the FA have done a lot in recent years to fix it. They've reorganised youth football to have a focus on smaller non-competitive games. I'm not sure how it has been going, but from what I've read about the first steps they really seemed to be doing the sensible things.

But even if the FA succeed in producing more skilful players, I think the majority of professional managers in England will still tend to select central midfielders based on athleticism, character and how well they strike the ball (shooting and long passing).

That's why I think Hodgeson, and by extension the English management culture, has a lot of blame to take. They had better players available but they weren't used and some of them aren't even considered.

Piliger

Colonialboy wrote: »

Hodgson :
He picked a great squad, but picked a crap team.

A bizarre and unsupportable assertion.

He didnt know what his starting 11 was.

What on earth evidence do you have for that ?

He didnt know what his best formation was.

Similarly you have no way of knowing that at all.

He didnt have a plan that was tailored to the opposition.

Again worthless blind assertion.

England will never succeed cos the football team and FA is representative of how English society is run.
They still have the 'Class System' , you play for a big club your in the team,

And yet they have a player from West Brom, three from Southampton and one from Celtic ! Again your class warfare assertion doesn't stand up.

the FA is full of stuffed shirts who wont upset the dinner table , and old has beens who just hang around until they get their knighthood for services to football.

Whether they are or aren't didn't matter on the pitch.

Their football punditry is like dishwater, no passion not truth no edge, same as their football.

Now you're just taking the pi$$.

But to some degree you sow what you reap so even the fan has to take some blame.

Yes. For insisting on the type of football that their teams play, a game that has zero chance of ever making it to the final of any international tournamant.

Piliger

Pro. F wrote: »

That's why I think Hodgeson, and by extension the English management culture, has a lot of blame to take. They had better players available but they weren't used and some of them aren't even considered.

There are no English players with any of the skills necessary to play International football available to Hodgson. They were weeded out at 13yo. and left football a long time ago.

Pro. F

Piliger wrote: »

There are no English players with any of the skills necessary to play International football available to Hodgson. They were weeded out at 13yo. and left football a long time ago.

Whatever you're game is, please stop.

Piliger

Pro. F wrote: »

Whatever you're game is, please stop.

What ?

mike65

Piliger wrote: »

One of the big reason why Liverpool were so successful against Continental teams was that they were able to play the continental game. They had lots of non English players to do it with, and the first division was played in a different style back then.

And I don't really know what point you're trying to make anyway .. ? that things used to be different yes they used to be different. But now they are as they are and unless they can learn to play International football they are fcuked.

Ah yes they had about 10 Irish, Welsh and Scots lads, plus the odd Dane and Aussie. Very sophisticated. Liverpool succeeded cos they had a lot of very good players and two brilliant managers.

Pro. F

Piliger wrote: »

What ?

You know what. You posted silly bollocks in response to an honest discussion. Nobody believes what you posted, including yourself. So you either did it for some sort of reaction, out of careless hyperbole, or for some other agenda. That type of bollocks will derail the discussion so please stop.

Piliger

mike65 wrote: »

Ah yes they had about 10 Irish, Welsh and Scots lads, plus the odd Dane and Aussie. Very sophisticated. Liverpool succeeded cos they had a lot of very good players and two brilliant managers.

That's one opinion. I have mine. They succeeded for a whole cocktail of reasons. And one of them is that they played a different kind of game with players they bought in very early in their careers and developed their game for several years before they ever appeared on the first team. Rarely did they buy and play.

Colonialboy

Piliger wrote: »

There are no English players with any of the skills necessary to play International football available to Hodgson. They were weeded out at 13yo. and left football a long time ago.

A bizarre and unsupportable assertion.
What on earth evidence do you have for that ? :P
Similarly you have no way of knowing that at all.
Again worthless blind assertion.:cool:
Now you're just taking the pi$$.:)

Piliger

Colonialboy wrote: »

A bizarre and unsupportable assertion.
What on earth evidence do you have for that ? :P
Similarly you have no way of knowing that at all.
Again worthless blind assertion.:cool:
Now you're just taking the pi$$.:)

Nice to be reassured that hypocrisy still thrives here

Ardillaun

It's not Roy, it's the players but I'm still surprised he doesn't resign after such ignominious results - it would be the right thing to do. He'll get endless abuse from this day forth. Does he need the money that badly?

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

In Hodgsons defense, injuries to Townsend, Walcott and Chamberlain were possibly significant in terms of attacking options and Jay Rodriguez is another player who was in good form all year who could have been an option from the bench.

Again though, if those are the options he is unlucky to be missing then that just shows the dearth of talent available.

Looper007

bucketybuck wrote: »

Again though, if those are the options he is unlucky to be missing then that just shows the dearth of talent available.

Walcott is a top player when fit and Ox is a very good young player.

Piliger

Looper007 wrote: »

Walcott is a top player when fit and Ox is a very good young player.

I agree. They are excellent players. But unfortunately they only know how to play one game. And that game is a losing game in international tournaments. Walcott is super fast but can't maintain possession to save his life

AdamD

Given that they both play for Arsenal I'm fairly confident they know the possession style pretty well

Piliger

AdamD wrote: »

Given that they both play for Arsenal I'm fairly confident they know the possession style pretty well

Ah yes. And how many trophies have Arsenal won lately ?

Looper007

Piliger wrote: »

Ah yes. And how many trophies have Arsenal won lately ?

FA Cup so shut it :pac:

Piliger

Looper007 wrote: »

FA Cup so shut it :pac:

Hilarious.

Colonialboy

So anyways hows the thread going.

Any chance it will discuss Hodgsons and Englands failings or is the thread still just the opinion of one smartypants.

meanwhile back at the ranch
I see Fer (Norwich) scored for holland the other night,
and theres a defender from Notts forest (Jara) playing a stormer for Chile
also Medjel (Cardiff) is a star for Chile too.

But all of them play well in their teams because they have a system that suits them,

England picks the players and then tries to find a system to fit them, rather than having a sytem and then finding players to fit it.
What are the chances Hodgson would pick 2 players from relegated teams and one from tier 2 .

England media, managers and FA pick a squad primarily from the top 6 teams (those teams are top 6 mostly due to the big budget foreign players in their ranks)

If Hodgson had a system, maybe he could find players to fit the system irrespective of what teams they come from.

its okay Piliger... i know its all unsupportable comments, and innuendo so theres no need for your response, I got it.

gormdubhgorm

Colonialboy wrote: »

So anyways hows the thread going.

Any chance it will discuss Hodgsons and Englands failings or is the thread still just the opinion of one smartypants.

meanwhile back at the ranch
I see Fer (Norwich) scored for holland the other night,
and theres a defender from Notts forest (Jara) playing a stormer for Chile
also Medjel (Cardiff) is a star for Chile too.

But all of them play well in their teams because they have a system that suits them,

England picks the players and then tries to find a system to fit them, rather than having a sytem and then finding players to fit it.
What are the chances Hodgson would pick 2 players from relegated teams and one from tier 2 .

England media, managers and FA pick a squad primarily from the top 6 teams (those teams are top 6 mostly due to the big budget foreign players in their ranks)

If Hodgson had a system, maybe he could find players to fit the system irrespective of what teams they come from.

its okay Piliger... i know its all unsupportable comments, and innuendo so theres no need for your response, I got it.

Off the top of my head Hodgson could have picked a few Hull players Curtis Davies, Livermore and Huddlestone. Imagine the reaction if he picked those!