How long more has Christianity (Religion) got ?

RobertKK

Most of the famous scientists were religious, nowadays some are and some aren't.

endacl

RobertKK wrote: »

Most of the famous scientists were religious, nowadays some are and some most aren't.

Slight adjustment.

_Redzer_

Turtwig wrote: »

Actually it's more a 60:40 split. You're confusing the national academy of scientists roster with the global scientist roster

Larson and Witham claimed that their survey of elite scientists “found near universal rejection of the transcendent.”1 Atheist Richard Dawkins relied upon this study in The God Delusion.2 More recently, philosopher Alex Rosenberg cited this study as finding “95 percent of the most distinguished scientists in America (along with their foreign associate members) don’t believe in God.” Rosenberg’s conclusion? “An unblinking scientific worldview requires atheism.”3

Their "near universal rejection" figure appears to be 72% if I'm correctly. Hardly universal, but very high all the same.

RobertKK wrote: »

Most of the famous scientists were religious, nowadays some are and some aren't.

Right in the past. Very wrong now.

See above.

Skeleton XIII

For as long as there are gullible people, people afraid of the dark, people afraid of ghosts/boogeymen, people afraid of death etc. Religion will exist in some form or another.

_Redzer_

Skeleton XIII wrote: »

For as long as there are gullible people, people afraid of the dark, people afraid of ghosts/boogeymen, people afraid of death etc. Religion will exist in some form or another.

Christianity is built on fear. There actually was no hell until they realised if they didn't force people to join their religion very few would.

Now the motto is join us or be damned forever. They completely manipulate fear to get their followers.

Ironic as I see that as more the trait of their devil than their god, but that's just me.

RobertKK

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Their "near universal rejection" figure appears to be 72% if I'm correctly. Hardly universal, but very high all the same.



Right in the past. Very wrong now.

See above.

How many are religious on the Pontifical academy of sciences. I don't know, some are atheists, most have won Nobel prizes in the area of science.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

RobertKK

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Christianity is built on fear. There actually was no hell until they realised if they didn't force people to join their religion very few would.

Now the motto is join us or be damned forever. They completely manipulate fear to get their followers.

Ironic as I see that as more the trait of their devil than their god, but that's just me.

Christians are not living in fear of hell, they want to try and be Christ like in their lives, which is not easy.

Chucken

_Redzer_ wrote: »

It's actually 93% of the National Academy of Sciences.

This also came up when I googled it


Which is interesting.

America?
Just America??

_Redzer_

Chucken wrote: »

America?
Just America??

That study was based in America. Considering the developed world's similar attitudes and outlooks in the field of science, that figure would roughly translate over to many other countries, I'm sure. Especially considering America has a higher rate of practising religious than some big European countries.

Chucken

_Redzer_ wrote: »

That study was based in America. Considering the developed world's similar attitudes and outlooks in the field of science, that figure would roughly translate over to many other countries, I'm sure. Especially considering America has a higher rate of practising religious than some big European countries.

America.

Is this what we're basing our opinions on?
For everything? Or just picking and choosing?

jank

Another thread on religion started by someone who is not religious.

_Redzer_

Chucken wrote: »

America.

Is this what we're basing our opinions on?
For everything? Or just picking and choosing?

It's a sample. It's just the one that I knew at the top of my head.

In college I know my year pretty well and we're overwhelmingly atheist.

The sample statistic would still stand true on the scientific community at large.

Why would you dismiss it just because it's from America?

Iwasfrozen

Supergurrier wrote: »

As we enter a more enlightened age of human evolution and development and less people actively partake in religion (have their children indoctrinated into it by default). How long has it got ?

10 years ?
20 years ?
50 years ?

Even the most fervent Christian must see that a book written to catalogue things that happened two thousand years ago in the 1400's is a bit dicey to take as fact/something to base your life on.

I come from a regular Irish family and I have huge respect for the comfort and sense of wellbeing family members of previous generations and older members get/got from it.

But surely the jig is almost up, even with the once hard corners of the Vatican's laws being smoothed over to stay in touch/keep the money flowing in.

Your thoughts AH ?

P.S. Like this post or my peaceful God will burn you for all eternity etc (or not)

Christianity has a least a thousand years left and religion in general will probably never disappear.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble OP but fundamentally we are no different to our ancestors and our descendants will not be much different to us.

_Redzer_

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Christianity has a least a thousand years left and religion in general will probably never disappear.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble OP but fundamentally we are no different to our ancestors and our descendants will not be much different to us.

A thousand years?

Given how we've completely revolutionised our civilisation radically just in the last 100 years, we will most likely be colonising other planets by 3014.

How could Christianity survive that long when it is already declining so fast in well educated, first world countries?

pauldla

_Redzer_ wrote: »

A thousand years?

Given how we've completely revolutionised our civilisation radically just in the last 100 years, we will most likely be colonising other planets by 3014.

How could Christianity survive that long when it is already declining so fast in well educated, first world countries?

At'eists be abortin' their babies. Or something like that.

Iwasfrozen

_Redzer_ wrote: »

A thousand years?

Given how we've completely revolutionised our civilisation radically just in the last 100 years, we will most likely be colonising other planets by 3014.

How could Christianity survive that long when it is already declining so fast in well educated, first world countries?

You're assuming we continue to grow indefinitely when the planets limited resources and our own overswelled population (especially in developing worlds) will put a cap on our growth. Our population explosion in relatively recent years coincides with rapid depletion of our finite natural resources.

You're also assuming more education always => less religion but places like Ireland and Baghdad were bastions of educated thought during the dark ages.

_Redzer_

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You're assuming we continue to grow indefinitely when the planets limited resources and our own overswelled population (especially in developing worlds) will put a cap on our growth.

You're also assuming more education always => less religion but places like Ireland and Baghdad were bastions of educated thought during the dark ages.

As a species we have the potential to grow indefinitely, but that's not all of us on one planet. What that has to do with Christianity I don't know. But we'll have more important things to be worrying or doing by then.

And if in 1000 years we do start collonising other planets, why would we still be concerned with the unproven, and lest face it, magical happenings in one small area in the middle east that would've taken place 3000 years ago by then, when we would be capable of creating so much to the point of being gods ourselves?

There is a direct correlation between education and a lack of faith. That's observable in every single developed country currently, with religion only on the rise in developing countries with low levels of education. Throughout the dark ages religion gave order and a framework for education to grow, albeit slowly. Now we live in a stable society with unparallelled levels of information.
The dark ages were an exception, not the rule.

Iwasfrozen

_Redzer_ wrote: »

As a species we have the potential to grow indefinitely, but that's not all of us on one planet. What that has to do with Christianity I don't know. But we'll have more important things to be worrying or doing by then.

And if in 1000 years we do start collonising other planets, why would we still be concerned with the unproven, and lest face it, magical happenings in one small area in the middle east that would've taken place 3000 years ago by then, when we would be capable of creating so much to the point of being gods ourselves?

There is a direct correlation between education and a lack of faith. That's observable in every single developed country currently, with religion only on the rise in developing countries with low levels of education. Throughout the dark ages religion gave order and a framework for education to grow, albeit slowly. Now we live in a stable society with unparallelled levels of information.
The dark ages were an exception, not the rule.

You claimed we'll be colonising planets in 1000 years time, I pointed out that it's quite naive to look back on how much we have developed over the past 1000 years and claim this trend will continue, especially not when we are depleting our planets finite natural resources at a historically unprecedented rate and as of yet there are no sustainable alternatives that will even come close to meeting the planets needs. It could very well be that we don't grow very much at all over the next 1000 years, we could have very well put a limit on our own growth by reaching peak oil before discovering a sustainable alternative. Game changers do happen but if things carry on the way they are I think this is more likely than space colonies.

Israel is located at the junction of the three continents of the old world. If you were al almighty being could you pick a better place to send your prophets?

I wouldn't agree with you there, many Christians are educated people, especially the passionate ones who would actually sit down with a bible and study it tend to be very well educated with high paying jobs. Heck, every priest has a masters degree and many bishops write their own peer reviewed theological papers.

Daithi2014

"Every priest has a masters" ...is that true?

Jimoslimos

Oblong Gator wrote: »

I thought Judgment Day was the sequal?

It was. Our saviour Arnie gave up his life to save mankind....actually there might be some sort of religious allegory in that!

Adamantium

I'm big as an atheist/agnostic as you could find, so it'll suprise you to hear this: could people shut the **** up about religion as the worst evil visited on the planet!

We've got bibles, books, and the most of the stunning artwork we've ever created because our chimpanzee brain had to find a way to decipher the world and communicate the beauty to other humans.

I love mythology and the imagination and when you kill people's ability to wonder even if it makes no logical sense, you in a sense DO kill what is human.

Fact is THE VAST majority follow their religion as if they were agnostic, that that for all intents and purposes it might as well be mythology .

And Christianity may pass into history only as a footnote and not this immovable presence in the planets minds and something else will creep into place, it always does. It is never has or will be The end of history

We're on the DJ flying Sphagetti monster's terrible 26435th remix but the eternal truths of life always stick around and rise above the sludge that are the holy books or any generic self help book.

1. Be nice. 2. Don't take other people's stuff

For as long as we have our imagination, as long as we are human, we will have religion.

And I'd rather have that world, than one devoid without such imagination, because fascists tell people that they can't have their own inner thoughts or talk about deep subjects with peers, to speculate, not to preach

We're evolving to loose our 5th faster, than the human brain wearing out it's fondness for wonder and storytelling. Which will be a very long time indeed

We'll undoubtely get to the stars someday and we will still be worshipping idol heads and doing ritual blessings of some sort

Also people do need something to cling to and that can not always be themselves, sometimes believing and worshipping one self isn't enough. The rituals are something bigger that provide people with a system to work with.

Not everybody is made of the same stern stuff as some atheists would like to believe.

You don't hate a limestone rock over a granite, do you?

That's like blaming the rock, that it shouldn't have been there, when Michael Schuemacher fell in his skiing accident


I mean the rocks are just there in nature, lying around, they're not doing anything to you, they were just formed that way.

That diversity in all of nature, is what makes life interesting and are I say it worth living

Randy Anders

In 50 years time religion in the west, at least as we know it, will have all but died out imo

There is currently a fairly large consciousness/spiritual movement that I can see filling the void though. People getting back in touch with their minds through meditation and stuff like that

Oblong Gator

It amuses me to see people saying 'in ten years...' 'in fifty years...'. I wouldn't be surprised if Christianity was around for another two thousand years, and religion itself for a good while longer. I reckon it's got its best years ahead of it yet.
There may be another Reformation, and another after that, and it may split, and it may come together... But yeah. It'll be here for a while yet.

mickydoomsux

Religion still has plenty of life in it because it will always aim for the poorest and most ignorant countries to sell them hope in the form of sunshine and lollipops if they worship whoever.

It doesn't really matter if it declines in the western world because there is always some poor, illiterate folk in a shanty town somewhere that the missionaries can shill a bill of goods to.

Frank Lee Midere

The question is Christianity in the west. It's probably in decline in Western Europe, static in Eastern Europe, growing in Russia and growing in evangelical fashion in the US ( where atheism is also growing). Christianity is growing worldwide and given the demographics will continue to go so. Islam is growing worldwide and set to become a major force in Europe.

Supergurrier

For people assuming I'm anti religion I'm not, i just don't like what the church itself as an entity has done to people over the years who worshipped a god they originally chose to believe themselves.

Taxed people into starvation/robbed them blind while telling them that they will be magically rewarded after they die.

Intimidated people into working/using their skills for free.

Forcing children into a religion by monopolising the education system and not allowing their parents to give their children free choice to join a religion when they are old enough to make up their own mind through intimidation and shame.

Lying to the masses for personal gain and if they disagree threatening them with hell/eternal damnation.

Holding back human development by picking and choosing what we should read/learn and believe.

Confusing itself with morality

There are a few good points however.

Religious belief brings people comfort.

Standardised education/increased literacy.

Provides a moral code to the lowest denominator.

Frank Lee Midere

_Redzer_ wrote: »

A thousand years?

Given how we've completely revolutionised our civilisation radically just in the last 100 years, we will most likely be colonising other planets by 3014.

How could Christianity survive that long when it is already declining so fast in well educated, first world countries?

Because it isn't in non first world countries, the ones having the babies. And the ones who will be doing any colonisation in 3014. If any.

My belief is that the last 200 years and at best the next 50 are anomalies in economic growth. And technological growth. So 3014 won't be that far ahead and maybe behind.

Badly Drunk Boy

endacl wrote: »

Ah, you'll be grand. Make the odd offering to Odin and you can rape and pillage away. It's positively encouraged in fact. The afterlife is a bit crap though if you're not into mead.

Westmead is probably even worse.

robbiezero

jank wrote: »

Another thread on religion started by someone who is not religious.

Old but apt.

How do you know if someone is an atheist?

They tell you.

Supergurrier

robbiezero wrote: »

Old but apt.

How do you know if someone is an atheist?

They tell you.

Funny as I've not mentioned athiesm once nor would i label myself as such.

Athiesm seems to be the modern buzzword to stick on someone who does not conform or is willing to have blind faith in a book written 1400 years after the events that took place in it happened.

For all you know I worship harry potter.

The main thing is if I did I would have had the choice to without being born with a religious label.

robbiezero

Supergurrier wrote: »

Funny as I've not mentioned athiesm once nor would i label myself as such.

Athiesm seems to be the modern buzzword to stick on someone who does not conform or is willing to have blind faith in a book written 1400 years after the events that took place in it happened.

For all you know I worship harry potter.

The main thing is if I did I would have had the choice to without being born with a religious label.

Replace with "doesn't believe in Christianity" or whatever you see fit.

Like very close to 100% of people, I couldn't care less what you believe in.

MRnotlob606

Im an atheist Im going impose my worldview on everyone even if you don't want to hear

Supergurrier

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Im an christian Im going impose my worldview on everyone even if you don't want to hear it oh and BTW you are going to hell sinner

Mhm

wendell borton

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
-Karl Marx

force eleven

Organised religion has little to offer. But there is something. Another dimension. Something. Death, physical death, is not the end in my opinion, but of course, nothing can be proven until you reach that point, therefore, discussion, pro and con, is meaningless. The best you can do, is live life well, and to the full. And try to do your best for others. That one is tough, really tough.

the_monkey

Manach wrote: »

Relgion being one of the most powerful force of good in this planet, and Christianity being one of the most wide spread and globally diverse elements of it, especially in the developing countries like China - how about in answer to OP's question : judgement day.

TWADDLE

shruikan2553

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Im an atheist Im going impose my worldview on everyone even if you don't want to hear

Was/is effective for the Christians

jank

_Redzer_ wrote: »

As a species we have the potential to grow indefinitely,

Do you have anything to back up this fanciful statement?

It is always amusing for self confessed 'rational' atheists to come out with statements based on nothing more than faith.

hardCopy

Oblong Gator wrote: »

It amuses me to see people saying 'in ten years...' 'in fifty years...'. I wouldn't be surprised if Christianity was around for another two thousand years, and religion itself for a good while longer. I reckon it's got its best years ahead of it yet.
There may be another Reformation, and another after that, and it may split, and it may come together... But yeah. It'll be here for a while yet.

As long as there is death, there is bereavement.
As long as there is bereavement people will find solace in religion.

I'd say Christianity will fade quickly once we find the secret of immortality.

mad muffin

Once our lizard overlords arrive.

All hail our lizard overlords!

seamus

Manach wrote: »

Relgion being one of the most powerful force of good in this planet

Religion being a "force" is about the only accurate thing there. For every good thing done in the name of a religion, there is a woman raped, or a person stoned to death or a child butchered, in the name of that same religion.

The best thing we can say about religion is that the introduction of religion will not do anything to make a bad situation worse. Although we kind of know that's being generous.

I Heart Internet

Read a history book OP. And realise that you are talking nonsense.

People have been predicting the dissappearance of religion, and particularly the catholic church, for the bulk of 2,000 years. They have all been hilariously wrong, just as you are.

Today, the RCC has more faithful (and more priests) than it has ever had in human history.

10 years.....hahahaha

Supergurrier

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Read a history book OP. And realise that you are talking nonsense.

People have been predicting the dissappearance of religion, and particularly the catholic church, for the bulk of 2,000 years. They have all been hilariously wrong, just as you are.

Today, the RCC has more faithful (and more priests) than it has ever had in human history.

10 years.....hahahaha

Who writes/burns the history books ?

Shurre isn't the bible the only history book people need.

Personally i have nothing against religion/faith in a personal setting. Its religious institutions I am against and their constant meddling in society/politics.

Everyone has a right to choose their own spiritual path without persecution I just wanted to get AH talking about their own views on it.

There is no right or wrong really.

robbiezero

Supergurrier wrote: »

Everyone has a right to choose their own spiritual path without persecution I just wanted to get AH talking about their own views on it.

Yes, its no harm to add a new and fresh topic to talk about.

_Redzer_

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You claimed we'll be colonising planets in 1000 years time, I pointed out that it's quite naive to look back on how much we have developed over the past 1000 years and claim this trend will continue, especially not when we are depleting our planets finite natural resources at a historically unprecedented rate and as of yet there are no sustainable alternatives that will even come close to meeting the planets needs. It could very well be that we don't grow very much at all over the next 1000 years, we could have very well put a limit on our own growth by reaching peak oil before discovering a sustainable alternative. Game changers do happen but if things carry on the way they are I think this is more likely than space colonies.

Israel is located at the junction of the three continents of the old world. If you were al almighty being could you pick a better place to send your prophets?

I wouldn't agree with you there, many Christians are educated people, especially the passionate ones who would actually sit down with a bible and study it tend to be very well educated with high paying jobs. Heck, every priest has a masters degree and many bishops write their own peer reviewed theological papers.

In the 17th century, and his name slips my mind, but a man famously claimed that the world could only support 2 billion at the absolute maximum given current agricultural technology. That was before our technology advanced monumentally allowing us to increase our yields exponentially.

The same is true today, nuclear fusion isn't too far into the distant future, and that will be a massive game changer for our planet, as nothing could give us more energy in return than that.

Genetically modified crops and animals are leading the way in increasing the range where we grow our food and how much food we get back in return.

It is naive to think our technology won't allow us to expand further. Our population is capped on this planet, it depends if we want to turn it into one big farm or not to get the maximum population, but a balance can be struck.

Developing countries' populations will boom, but with education and development they will more than likely begin to fall over the next hundreds of years.

Our rate of technology and development is not based on population growth, look at Japan and Germany to see that we can still progress very quickly even at a fixed or slowly declining population.

We have come a long way, and we are pushing ourselves faster and faster. Space travel will be commercialised in the next few years, I have little doubt scientists will be experimenting with orbital hubs this century either.

Point is, you're underestimating our ability hugely, we are already capable of massive feats already.

Christanity doesn't stand a chance in the next 100 years, let alone the next 1000 -there isn't anything special about it compared to other religions currently to help it survive. Every single developed country is losing their faith. Every single one of them. It's only the 3rd world that is saving religion in future, and even then, it's only a matter of time before they are educated to our high standards too, meaning that they will follow us in due time, too.

Religion is a great way of explaining the unknown, that is until we discover what the unknown is -then religion's job is done and is no longer needed, and that's what's happening in the west, currently. Science and technology will rightfully take its place in explaining our world, as it always should.

jank wrote: »

Do you have anything to back up this fanciful statement?

It is always amusing for self confessed 'rational' atheists to come out with statements based on nothing more than faith.

Ironic coming from someone who is religious. You should be asking yourself that very same question about your religion.

You've taken my statement out of context. I said we as a species can live forever, just not on this planet. In the space age, which we are in, we will be expanding over the next few hundred years. That is not a fanciful statement.

I Heart Internet

Supergurrier wrote: »

Who writes/burns the history books?

I dunno, who does that?

Supergurrier wrote: »

Shurre isn't the bible the only history book people need.

No. The bible isn't really a history book. It is partly historical, but not really a historical text in the modern sense.

Supergurrier wrote: »

Personally i have nothing against religion/faith in a personal setting. Its religious institutions I am against and their constant meddling in society/politics.

Yeah, some people have that vague dislike for religions. And they indulge in the wishful thinking that religions are somehow going to disappear in the next 20 years. Never ceases to amuse me.

Supergurrier wrote: »

Everyone has a right to choose their own spiritual path without persecution I just wanted to get AH talking about their own views on it.

On this we agree.

WilyCoyote

Gott ist tot! But religions will live forever - as long as people play victim to their insecurities.

_Redzer_

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Yeah, some people have that vague dislike for religions. And they indulge in the wishful thinking that religions are somehow going to disappear in the next 20 years. Never ceases to amuse me.

I will openly say that that I hate many big, organised religions, but I wouldn't if they'd mind their own business and stop interfering with my life when they have no business in doing so.

I think if many big religions kept their noses out of government and politics I would honestly have no problem whatsoever with them as they wouldn't be affecting me negatively. I already don't have a problem with peaceful religions like Buddhism.
Sadly that's not the case with religions like Christianity, for example.


But alas, religions will begin to slow and die out, I don't think completely or entirely, but look at the current situation; we're only getting more educated in our developed worlds, with that high standard applying to more and more of the population as time goes on. With that the rate of faith decreases. It would be naive to think that religion will be anything but a minority in future, as that would mean ignoring everything that affects it and shows us it will decline.

I Heart Internet

_Redzer_ wrote: »

I will openly say that that I hate many big, organised religions, but I wouldn't if they'd mind their own business and stop interfering with my life when they have no business in doing so.

That's not how they see it.

_Redzer_ wrote: »

But alas, religions will begin to slow and die out

Doubt it.