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Mass unmarked grave for 800 babies in Tuam

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Comments

  • #362
    lynski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    tHERE IS NONE! Sorry for the shouting but wtf? How can there be no one in the believing community talking about this?
    Not so much as a prayer for them, maybe they are still stained by the sin of their parents. Sorry mothers, as the fathers were never punished for their conception.


  • #363
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    lynski wrote: »
    Go take a look at the discussion on this issue on the Christianity board. Interesting read.

    There is no thread on this news story from what I can see, maybe I'm just missing it.


  • #364
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lynski wrote: »
    tHERE IS NONE! Sorry for the shouting but wtf? How can there be no one in the believing community talking about this?

    I was looking for it and thinking I had missed it :confused: Yeah, well that says a lot really doesn't it. :mad:


  • #365
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    lynski wrote: »
    tHERE IS NONE! Sorry for the shouting but wtf? How can there be no one in the believing community talking about this?

    Heads buried in the sand imo


  • #366
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    Well put it this way, at no point have you openly said that the burials were inappropriate. If you don't think they are inappropriate you must think they are appropriate.

    and yet....
    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    I'd only be guessing on the details, but I dont think they were buried correctly (without a coffin or grave marker).


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  • #367
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    lynski wrote: »
    tHERE IS NONE! Sorry for the shouting but wtf? How can there be no one in the believing community talking about this?
    Not so much as a prayer for them, maybe they are still stained by the sin of their parents. Sorry mothers, as the fathers were never punished for their conception.

    How dare they not discuss what we're discussing.


  • #368
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    How dare they not discuss what we're discussing.

    A scandal at the very heart of your church, you would think it would merit a thread but it hasn't even got a sniff of one, says it all really doesn't it.


  • #369
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    eviltwin wrote: »
    A scandal at the very heart of your church, you would think it would merit a thread but it hasn't even got a sniff of one, says it all really doesn't it.

    Be more interesting to open one and see how long it takes to get shut down and deleted.


  • #370
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    eviltwin wrote: »
    A scandal at the very heart of your church, you would think it would merit a thread but it hasn't even got a sniff of one, says it all really doesn't it.

    To be fair, the Christianity forum is not the most active of boards.


  • #371
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    and yet....

    Apologies I must have missed that post. So you believe that the burials were inappropriate and yet you feel the church is not in the wrong... I see


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  • #372
    Hoagy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Hoagy


    Mark Patterson Show on BBC Radio Foyle did an interview with Catherine Corless, you can listen to it here.


  • #373
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    In this thread you have been trying to make out that the church was not involved in this by saying that an investigation has to be carried out before any conclusions can be made. I would view that as a defence of the RCC. I think you would have to be a fool to believe the RCC isn't to blame and I wonder how many cases such as this and how much evidence you need to see to realise that the RCC is at fault here and has been at fault for countless other atrocities in Ireland over the last many decades.

    So you can't find any post where I have defended or made excuses for the RCC. Why dont you just hold up your hands and say sorry I was mistaken?


  • #374
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    So you can't find any post where I have defended or made excuses for the RCC. Why dont you just hold up your hands and say sorry I was mistaken?

    Alright give me a minute and I'll make a post which includes each and every post of yours from this thread. I believe all of them are making excuses for the church and trying to deflect attention by saying that a full investigation hasn't been completed yet.


  • #375
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    Apologies I must have missed that post. So you believe that the burials were inappropriate and yet you feel the church is not in the wrong... I see

    OK, we'll have to start this again - where did I say "the church are not in the wrong"?

    You seem to be confusing me stating we need to learn more facts about this case, for me defending and excusing what appears to have gone down.


  • #376
    lynski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭lynski


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    To be fair, the Christianity forum is not the most active of boards.

    Active enough to have a two page discussion on how the catholic chich is not the correct name for the Roman Catholic Church, all the the past 24 hrs. My point was that they still are not denying this, or refuting claims, they are not condemning the actions of the past or surprised by it. I am sure that the Catholic Church would to this day operate as it did in the past if society had not changed. I know five children age 22/23 born in mother and baby homes and destined for adoption initially when their mothers went in. That is not long ago.


  • #377
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Please direct me to the post on this thread in which I made any defence or made any excuses.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I don't agree at all that I am the one who is being disrespetfull here. Posters are alleging murder and abuse and criminality before any investigation has taken place. No poster seems to be cogniscent of the possibility that parents of these dead children could be still alive and finding these allegations very traumatising. The rush to judgment here is alarming based on such scant evidence. And these allegations are allowed to go on pretty much unfettered. There is no doubt that a lynch mob mentality is very prevalent here and it is very troubling.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I see that even before any of us have signed the petition, the investigation is over for a lot of posters.
    Apparently exactly 800 babies were murdered by the nuns, nobody here on A&A really cares how where why or when.
    All that matters to some folk is that we seem to have the magic ingredients
    1. Dead babies
    2. Nuns
    Don't let's be bothered with a proper investigation . Don't show any sensitivity to the families of these babies who maybe still alive and suffering horrendously as a result of this discovery. Just get me my pitchfork im in a mood to lynch some religious. We don't need know investigation. Its murder! Murder I tells ya!
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I'm not ashamed of anything. I havnt anything to be ashamed of.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Certainly no need for any heart searching here. I've no problem signing it.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    I heart internet ,ryan101 and I have all called for a full a and thorough investigation into the discovery of this apparent mass grave. I don't see obsfucating or nitpicking on this thread or shouting down. Where do you see it?
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Yes but you don't know how the bodies got there. You don't know who put them there or why or when.
    You are just speculating.
    That's why there needs to be an investigation.
    You don't appear to want an investigation . You appear to want to go straight from wild allegations to punishment phase.
    BTW the Mercy Sisters won't be able to help the investigation as the actual Order of nuns is Bons Secours. Its always more productive to investigate the correct people.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Well if even only the posters on this thread who claim to "know" what happened at Tuam made a statement to Gardai then the Guards would probably get permission from the judiciary to serve a warrant on the Order to compel them to cooperate. Then they would have to produce their records and the investigation could move on.
    Posters seem to be reluctant though to go to the Guards with their evidence . I don't know why. Its as if they don't actually know what happened and are just wildly recklessly speculating about a topic which may be causing terrible mental anguish to people involved who are still alive. And I'm not talking about the nuns.
    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    As far as I know an investigation has yet to take place, never mind conclusions being drawn.
    Yet you claim to know what happened.
    Have you presented your evidence to the Gardai? Another poster on this thread claimed to "know" what happened at Tuam as well. If everybody who "knows' what happened at Tuam r any other potential scene of crime would simply present themselves at a Garda station and make a statement then it would expediate each investigation and the Guards could move swiftly through the process to where arrests could be made.

    There you go.


  • #378
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    Alright give me a minute and I'll make a post which includes each and every post of yours from this thread. I believe all of them are making excuses for the church and trying to deflect attention by saying that a full investigation hasn't been completed yet.

    So it should be simple to find one post that makes excuses and defends this.

    Just his "quote" and pop it up here for us all to see.


  • #379
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    OK, we'll have to start this again - where did I say "the church are not in the wrong"?

    You seem to be confusing me stating we need to learn more facts about this case, for me defending and excusing what appears to have gone down.

    Okay so we agree then. The church is in the wrong and an investigation needs to take place. Glad we sorted that out.


  • #380
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    There you go.

    How do these quotes prove what you claim they do?


  • #381
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    The whole thing makes me so sad, all these children did was be born to an unmarried mother, they were innocent, their mothers were innocent too. Having a baby outside marriage isn't the worst thing anyone can do but the church still frown on it to this day and you have to wonder if the world hadn't moved on would they still be running these homes today.


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  • #382
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    How do these quotes prove what you claim they do?

    Myself and yourself came to an agreement I thought? Why the need to argue when we are agreeing with each other?


  • #383
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    SeaDaily wrote: »
    Okay so we agree then. The church is in the wrong and an investigation needs to take place. Glad we sorted that out.

    The church failed miserably in caring for many children over many years. An investigation of this particular case is needed immediately.


  • #384
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Can anyone tell me, was it the norm to baptise babies born in institutions such as these?

    The historian Catherine Corless found that the eldest child who died and subsequently has no burial record in any burial ground was 9 years of age and presumably was dumped in this septic tank.

    This would have been a baptised Catholic, no? Also would have had their First Confession and First Holy Communion? But no Catholic burial in sanctified ground? If this is the case, its surely double standards no?

    This is the final straw for me in my pulling away from the faith I was born in. I think your forum might have its newest member.


  • #385
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    Neyite wrote: »
    Can anyone tell me, was it the norm to baptise babies born in institutions such as these?

    The historian Catherine Corless found that the eldest child who died and subsequently has no burial record in any burial ground was 9 years of age and presumably was dumped in this septic tank.

    This would have been a baptised Catholic, no? Also would have had their First Confession and First Holy Communion? But no Catholic burial in sanctified ground? If this is the case, its surely double standards no?

    This is the final straw for me in my pulling away from the faith I was born in. I think your forum might have its newest member.

    Welcome to the dark side, on Tuesdays it's chocolate ice cream........chocolate:D


  • #386
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    An investigation of this particular case is needed immediately.

    What facts lead you to think an investigation is needed?


  • #387
    mrsbyrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    eviltwin wrote: »
    A scandal at the very heart of your church, you would think it would merit a thread but it hasn't even got a sniff of one, says it all really doesn't it.

    What it says to me is that the A&A forum despite its title is absolutely consumed with religion, no, Christianity, no, Catholicism and the regular posters on the Christianity forum couldn't give a toss about the atheists.


  • #388
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,506 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    The church failed miserably in caring for many children over many years. An investigation of this particular case is needed immediately.

    Grand, but thats been covered to death by you already. How many more times do you need to say it?

    An investigation request is already being made as I showed in a news story,


  • #389
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    What facts lead you to think an investigation is needed?

    Very few. Just reports of human remains in a mass grave in Tuam. We don;t know a whole lot more than that but I think it merits and investigation as it is.


  • #390
    I Heart Internet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,678 ✭✭✭I Heart Internet


    Cabaal wrote: »
    An investigation request is already being made as I showed in a news story,

    So what do we do now?

    Wait?

    Or speculate wildly?

    Mmmm difficult one that.


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  • #391
    SeaDaily
    Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SeaDaily


    I Heart Internet wrote: »
    So what do we do now?

    Wait?

    Or speculate wildly?

    Mmmm difficult one that.

    Assuming the church had a part to play in this is hardly wild speculation...


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